# Small rant: The Beauty Review Bandwagon



## LeeleeBell (Jul 29, 2009)

Ok is it just me....Lately it seems like a bunch of you-tubers and beauty bloggers will all decide to review the same product around the time at least 10 others have already reviewed it. How many reviews saying the same thing do we really need to see? Honestly, if peeps had something *new* to add to the conversation that's one thing....but to just say what everyone else has already said? Why? 

I think that's why I am becoming skeptical of product reviews from anyone...even trusted sources for tips/tricks etc. If everyone starts hyping something I start to think "they must be getting free product for good reviews".  Seriously, take the case of Sigma brushes. I have nothing against them, and in fact I have ordered from them before and just did again. It's just one example lately....I am not trying to accuse anyone of anything. I am not saying that "gurus" are lying. I am just saying that the redundancy is making me skeptical and turning me off to product reviews in general... I am skipping blogs and vids and such because of it.

Another recent example: the OCC lip tars. I bought one and despised it...tried to give it to a friend and she hated it too. I wasn't particularly impressed with the e/s I bought either, though it was ok....just nothing "spectacular" like the reviews have made it seem. I haven't seen one youtuber or blogger have a negative word to say about their product. I find that a bit odd. I thought at least one person out there, of the many who have decided to review OCC...might agree with us?  But nope. They all say the same thing, the same reviews.

Just had to get that off my chest and please don't take offense....I do appreciate all the effort and time that so many put into reviews/tuts/blogs and I usually love watching them. I am just starting to feel like sometimes things are over-promoted...overly hyped...it starts to feel like a commercial when you see the same review 10 times from 10 different people. I know some have said "I don't have to review anything I don't like...so why would I lie?"....that's not my issue and I am not accusing anyone of lying. All I ask is before doing a review, do a search on youtube or google...or just check out your fellow bloggers/youtubers to see what they have been up to...Just check on how many other people have already done that review-and said basically the same thing- recently


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## TISH1124 (Jul 29, 2009)

I can't even begin to voice my opinion without offending people.....So let me just say  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I mean like is there any product they review that is NOT GREAT??????


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## malaviKat (Jul 29, 2009)

I have to agree with you.  (And no, I don't see it as you accusing anyone of anything, least of all dishonesty).  I also find there's been a dramatic increase in the number of YouTubers who focus on makeup/beauty and while it's great to have a vast array of tutorials to choose from, lately I just haven't been able to keep up with everyone.


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## malaviKat (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_I can't even begin to voice my opinion without offending people....._

 
LOL!


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## LeeleeBell (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_I mean like is there any product they review that is NOT GREAT??????_

 

LOL it would be refreshing to see "Stuff that sucks this month" vids from the youtubers once in a while
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 That said, some of them do say, once in a while, when they aren't impressed...

I have seen MissChievous and TiffanyD do that...Julia hated some dazzleglasses, has criticized a lot of MAC stuff...and Tiffany has said she isn't impressed with certain MSF's or MAC collections that come out.


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## frocher (Jul 29, 2009)

........


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## frocher (Jul 29, 2009)

.......


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## TISH1124 (Jul 29, 2009)

^I agree...I read some of the blogs and it's like every item they review is FABULOUS....and you have to wonder....ok just how much did you put into the reviewing process...you get it one day and it is so wonderful immediately...Have you had time to try all the products or does hand swatches count as a review or free products automatically get a FABULOUS stat...I just draw my own conclusions on products...My opinion is all that matters at the end of the day...what is good for one is not always great for another


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## frocher (Jul 29, 2009)

.....


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## malaviKat (Jul 29, 2009)

I think I've gotten to the point where I treat YouTube as a medium for learning about new products - not as a place to hear reviews or opinions. It's just too easy to get sucked into the hype there. And, to be honest, judging by a lot of the viewer comments some of the gurus have, there are a lot of young teenagers that don't really know any better. (Sad, but true). Of course, this is the target demographic for most companies, no?

If I want to get a decent review of a product I'm more likely to check its rating on makeupalley (or something along those lines). At least there there's a potential that the reviews come from a larger sample of people.

The Sigma brush example Leelee brought up is a good one. I will admit that I have also purchased from Sigma but my decision to do so had nothing to do with Tiffany's reviews and everything to do with the discussion that took place here on Specktra.  Based on that I decided to buy one brush and evaluate things myself before deciding on any larger purchases. 

Good for gurus who never meet a product they don't like...but that's just not realistic.


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## TISH1124 (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_Another recent example: the OCC lip tars. I bought one and despised it...tried to give it to a friend and she hated it too. I wasn't particularly impressed with the e/s I bought either, though it was ok....just nothing "spectacular" like the reviews have made it seem. I haven't seen one youtuber or blogger have a negative word to say about their product. I find that a bit odd. I thought at least one person out there, of the many who have decided to review OCC...might agree with us? But nope. They all say the same thing, the same reviews.
_

 
Come on now...you know them OCC lip tars are the best thing since Buttered bread!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







Yep same thing...OMG so pigmented...last forever....so great! I'm in love! I have a new favorite...Don't sleep on these....


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## frocher (Jul 29, 2009)

//////////.


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## malaviKat (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *frocher* 

 
_See, I think most of these reviewers did meet products they didn't like before they started getting them free to review on their channels or blogs.  If they give a bad review, the well of free stuff dries up.  They want to keep it coming in, it's only human.  But to be less than honest with your viewers, your mad viewers will be stuck with crappy products which equates to less viewers/viewers that don't trust you.  Seems like a bad business decision to me, or personal one for that matter.


Your reputation and word is not worth free makeup imo.  That's selling yourself pretty cheap._

 
Here's a question... Would your opinions change at all if the reviewer(s) in question came out and admitted they were sent the product (under review) for free?  Would it be better for them to admit that it might not have been a product they would have considered purchasing and advise their viewers accordingly?


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## TISH1124 (Jul 29, 2009)

Honest reviews impress me no matter what.....because we as followers expect honesty...then we go buy it and it's crap...that makes me not listen to anything else you review...If it's great say that...If you would not  purchased it say that....But their hands are tied when they get it free they basically feel inclined to lie to keep the freebies coming i would think

If a reviewer said...Thank Goodness this was free because I personally wouldn't purchase it...speaks volumes ...Thats a honest person


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## LeeleeBell (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *malaviKat* 

 
_Here's a question... Would your opinions change at all if the reviewer(s) in question came out and admitted they were sent the product (under review) for free? Would it be better for them to admit that it might not have been a product they would have considered purchasing and advise their viewers accordingly?_

 

For me, I think it's obvious that some bloggers and "gurus" are sent a lot of stuff for free...I mean where do you buy OCC liptars or Sigma brushes? They were new products/brands that needed to get word of mouth going, so they sent freebies to people. And there's nothing wrong with people accepting that IMO...As some have said they don't "have to" review a product or hype it if they hate it. 

But maybe, just maybe, a product isn't "perfect" in every way. Maybe a brush or two they got has shed several hairs...for example. Maybe the pigmentation or texture was off on some items...and not others. Maybe there was a funny scent. Maybe the company didn't package the items well and they were bent on arrival and had to be reordered. What if that information was left out of a review because "overall" a guru liked the products or the people who sold them. What if they just don't want to hurt the feelings of these new entrepreneurs who are so excited and so kind to ship their products for free? Now that's where it gets tricky for me. The hype gets passed on and some of the truth doesn't get passed along with it.
That's all I want: the whole truth.

I swear that some of the reviews online of Sigma brushes are scripted LOL! They all say the same thing....the same way...Sooo strange.

Regarding Beautychoice.com....ugh! I read the specktra thread about that and was disgusted to hear some of those experiences. Another big part of buying a product online is customer service: the gurus/people who get freebies don't have to deal with that when they get free stuff. So they might rave about a product and recommend purchasing it through an online retailer because of their own "easy" experience...They shouldn't be held accountable/blamed for stuff if they didn't know about it, but at the same time....why would they promote an online retailer they didn't have direct experience with (ordered products with their own money)? Just to get free stuff? That's so wrong


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## frocher (Jul 29, 2009)

..........


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## LMD84 (Jul 29, 2009)

i agree that alot of people are reviewing the same products and in the same way which yes is getting a little annoying! so i agree with you totally.

as others have said some youtubers admit when a product isn't so hot. doesn't mean they hate the whole brand but certain products aren't great. to me that is honest.  but other people... well i feel like they could be sent some poop and they'd say how much they love it!


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## gigiopolis (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm like MalaviKat - I use YouTube as a way to learn about new stuff, mostly. I mean, if it weren't for these reviews some great products would have never been brought to light, and that would've been a shame. I tend to take product reviews with a grain of salt. I realize that people take their time to make these videos, but at the same time, it's pretty draining to come up with a thorough, in-depth analysis and review of a product. Much easier to just pick the stuff you like and talk about that. 

Sometimes I like to think of "reviews" as literally, reviews - like a once-over of what the product is and what it does, as opposed to an opinion on the product. If I REALLY want to know how well a product performs, I'm going to check it out on Makeupalley or something for a mass opinion.

Also, maybe think about how YouTubers simply weed out the stuff they hate and talk solely about the stuff they like, i.e. they _are_ being honest. I know some people are outspoken, but a lot of people don't have the balls to be sent something by a company, then go on to bash the product publicly in a video. As the saying goes, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"...after all, most YouTubers aren't professional critics. The closest I can think of is pinkiecharm, who I think gives the most thorough and objective reviews (but even she limits herself by not making How-to/tutorial videos).

I don't know. I'm a pretty optimistic person, have a pretty optimistic view of human nature. I don't think most YouTubers would lie openly just to continue getting products, so maybe these are some other reasons.


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## Lauren1981 (Jul 29, 2009)

i can dig it


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## Willa (Jul 29, 2009)

I can't tell you guys enough how much I dislike watching youtube and vlogs now, just because of it. 

As an example, I started doing videos on youtube, but mostly for the fun of it, and also in French because there are not a lot right now. Someone who knows me will tell you that I'm all for MUFE. So, in my videos, I mostly use their products. But it's been like that for years now, nobody paid me to tell how much I loved a product. If I dont like it, I'll say it. I just did a video the other day about stuff that I like to use, and compare it to other things I bought and that IMO arent worth it, even tho everyone says it is...

Some people will never admit they had stuff sent for free if they did a good review of it, some people will. I have a friend of mine who has her own blog, and she told me franckly : I'm waiting for offers before having my hair done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Right, a girl does what she can to save money I guess
But personnaly, I'm not into it at all
I hate going on a blog and seeing banners here and there, about the same products, offers, 15% off... Not for me.

As I am a very honest and direct person, I really dislike watching somebody's BS on a blog/video. I know you were ''paid'' for it, your game doesnt work on me.

What's the next hype?


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## RedRibbon (Jul 29, 2009)

I don't get anything for free and all the reviews on my blog are honest.  I've got stuff I like and don't like on there.  I can't see myself lying and saying something is good when it's crap.  I can understand the point made above about not wanting to say anything bad in case free stuff dries up.  If you ask me, if you're out to get as much free stuff as you can and lie so other people go and waste their money then you have no place doing reviews because you're not doing a review, you're just paying lip service.


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## Face2Mac (Jul 29, 2009)

I have taken to just listening to opinions on MAC. Because MAC is not sending out all that much product to youtube, they don't have to, so buy it with your own money. 

 I think the rest are getting ridiculous and I can honestly say, I saw it coming. The partnership started and that started a competition and yay, I can get paid at the same time. So now ev1 wants to be a partner, good for them, though.  But before that, little things were being sent like Jessie girl products, mineral products but without paying for them.  I say wait a few weeks and see if they use the products again, that will tell you if they like them or not.

Also, I have surmised that some people now come on with a new product to sell and then they disappear for 2-3 weeks until a next new freebie needs hyping.

But I do love the yt gurus but now I am trying to find new ones who I know aren't getting a freebie with every purchase and are still doing it for the love of makeup, not a infomercial.


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## Shimmer (Jul 29, 2009)

You can tell when a reviewer doesn't like a product because s/he resorts to more of the press release information than her own opinion.  To a point, in order to keep the PR  companies sending product for review, there has to be a little bit of fellating. 

But, most of the time, if someone doesn't like it, they'll give a lackluster review.  
I've been sent product that I don't like...and generally, I don't review it, and let them know why. =/


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## Willa (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_You can tell when a reviewer doesn't like a product because s/he resorts to more of the press release information than her own opinion.  To a point, in order to keep the Page Ranking  companies sending product for review, there has to be a little bit of fellating. 

But, most of the time, if someone doesn't like it, they'll give a lackluster review.  
*I've been sent product that I don't like...and generally, I don't review it, and let them know why.* =/_

 
And IMO, it's the right thing to do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Same kind of thing happened last winter when I took a class
I wanted more informations about photo and tv makeup
I left after 5 class I think, anyway, not because of this reason especially but a combination of annoying and unprofessionnal behaviors from the teacher.

One day she came in saying MAC approached her with giving her a whole new kit to work if she stopped working with her other things. She said yes! So, even tho she prefered some other companies, they now were outdated to her and not good enough

COME. ON.
o_0


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## LeeleeBell (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Face2Mac* 

 
_I have taken to just listening to opinions on MAC. Because MAC is not sending out all that much product to youtube, they don't have to, so buy it with your own money._

 
MAC does send a lot of free stuff out to MUA's/make up pro's...That's actually a big problem for some freelancers out there, and those who like to use their
own favorite brands etc (MAC is everywhere...sends out free makeup and artists to events etc to promote their brand). But at least with MAC many/most people can swatch it for ourselves in person and know if we agree or not. I have seen a lot of over-hyping for MAC products in vids and blogs too...that I definitely didn't agree with when I tried the product for myself....


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## chocolategoddes (Jul 29, 2009)

LOL! This is all so true.

I think it probably started with Coastal Scents and other brands took notice.
These companies always send the products to the bigger name youtubers, just so they can get exposure... not for the youtuber to give an honest review. I guess it's a smart move on the company's part, but it does get a little suspicious.

so yeah, I pretty much agree with all of what y'all have said!


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## LeeleeBell (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *chocolategoddes* 

 
_LOL! This is all so true.

I think it probably started with Coastal Scents and other brands took notice.
These companies always send the products to the bigger name youtubers, just so they can get exposure... not for the youtuber to give an honest review. I guess it's a smart move on the company's part, but it does get a little suspicious.

so yeah, I pretty much agree with all of what y'all have said! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Speaking of which...am I the only one who isn't wild and crazy in love with those ebay/coastal scents palettes? I got the 88 original palette and a neutral palette..The payoff on the color is mediocre *at best*. Sure they were cheap, but you know what? I hardly use them. I wish there had been some really honest reviewers out there who said "eh. not sure I love them. I sort of like a few of them"....

Every review I read (and I researched) was uber-positive. Again the power of hype is just amazing...


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## gildedangel (Jul 29, 2009)

To answer the original question, I am getting bored with every guru review the same freaking products over and over again. :/
I don't have a problem with gurus getting sent free stuff, it is when they don't review honestly that bothers me. Sometimes you can tell when they are lying. If I were sent stuff, I would warn the company that I would review it no matter what, be it a good review or a bad review. If I like the product, but there is some aspect that I don't like; I tell you. I completely understand gigiopolis's point about weeding out not reviewing the products that you don't like, but IMO if a company is willing to send me a free product, I expect it to work well and if it doesn't I am going to tell my viewers. But then again I am a b*tch like that, it may not be what most people would do.
I also don't base my purchases solely on youtube, I search here on specktra and on makeupalley too. I think that perhaps some people don't follow the mantra "buyer beware" and just go out and buy everything that their guru thinks is awesome, and that saddens me because not everyone is ever going to like a single product. No product works for everyone, so to base a purchase on one review on youtube is asking for trouble IMO.


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## TISH1124 (Jul 29, 2009)

LeeleeBell, I like the 88 palette....But the neutral palette was not so great for me...I mean only about 10 of the 28 colors I would actually use.....


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## Willa (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_Speaking of which...am I the only one who isn't wild and crazy in love with those ebay/coastal scents palettes? I got the 88 original palette and a neutral palette..*The payoff on the color is mediocre *at best**. Sure they were cheap, but you know what? I hardly use them. I wish there had been some really honest reviewers out there who said "eh. not sure I love them. I sort of like a few of them"....

Every review I read (and I researched) was uber-positive. Again the power of hype is just amazing..._

 
True, I tried it twice on photoshoot events I had and each time I was disapointed. The blush palettes are kinda nice... but the e/s, no thanks.
It's like chalk, and the color isnt very nice at the end. Doesnt blend well.


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## LeeleeBell (Jul 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *gildedangel* 

 
_I also don't base my purchases solely on youtube, I search here on specktra and on makeupalley too. I think that perhaps some people don't follow the mantra "buyer beware" and just go out and buy everything that their guru thinks is awesome, and that saddens me because not everyone is ever going to like a single product. No product works for everyone, so to base a purchase on one review on youtube is asking for trouble IMO._

 
I am the same way...careful about what I buy. I have to say though, that I hadn't really been into make up for like 10-15 years and went online to find what was out there. People just "hyped" so well...I thought,"wow that sounds amazing...my pores are really large right now, I need to get some of that pore perfector". Bought it and it dried me out and didn't work. It has worked for others and just not for me. That's cool, I get it. A skin product won't work the same for everyone... 

With brushes or shadows or lipsticks...it's not the same. The texture/softness/payoff etc is usually pretty consistent for people. That said, I don't expect to agree with all reviews. I do expect to see a *variety* of experiences/reviews from different people though...but 9 times out of 10 on youtube and blogs, it is all hype and the same review over and over again.

I try to research anything before I buy...I look for swatches and reviews here at Specktra and MUG. But for some of the products that aren't available in stores for example...that are only known about thanks to freebies sent to gurus and bloggers...You have to trust the "word" of someone else.  I basically don't have that same level of trust anymore thanks to so much hype....

ETA: 
I do want to add something: I am very grateful for the product reviews by specktra members, mugs, bloggers, gurus. Without them I never would have found Sleek eyeshadows, which I love and use daily lol. And there are SO many other products I have learned about, as well as helpful tips and tricks I've learned from this forum and others...Tea Tree oil for zits is the latest miracle for me lol...I don't want to sound ungrateful or like I am a negative nilly...  Just speaking about a current trend that's been disappointing me.


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## user79 (Jul 29, 2009)

Some things I want to clarify, not because I feel personally attacked at all, but more because I like being a part of the YT community and feel like I should try to highlight a few things from the other perspective. Most of the comments I've read are coming from people not involved in the video making process, so I just want to highlight some things from the other side of the coin. I do feel that overall, there are some pretty exaggerated statements thus far.

1. All "popular" or widely read/viewed bloggers and vloggers get sent free products from companies. This isn't some new phenomenon only in the YT community - bloggers get free products too. The reason that people are talking more about this now is that on YT a product review video might get 100,000 views, whereas a blog entry might only get 1000 or so. So YT has a much wider audience than traditional blogs, I would wager. 

2. Bloggers/Vloggers/businesses exist in a symbiotic relationship. Bloggers and Vloggers are often expected and requested by their audience to review the latest makeup trends, collections, or new products. That's what the audience wants to see - new stuff, not many people want to see a review on a collection that was released 5 years ago. That's just how it is. The cost of being able to do that though is staggering - something most v/bloggers wouldn't be able to afford unless they are rich. So if you want to keep up with the new items coming on the market, it's almost necessary to work together with public relations people from makeup lines. The cost of producing makeup videos is actually pretty high - I am constantly replacing products I've run out of, or having to buy very specific products to do looks. These are products I purchase specifically for my YT audience, products I would not be buying if I wasn't involved in making makeup videos. Which is fine, I like doing it! But working together with a company makes it easier because it means I can continue to do so without going completely broke. Most YTers still purchase or purchased the majority of their products anyway. I'd say about 90% of the products I have in my collection that I use for videos, I bought myself.

3. Just because a company sends free product does not guarantee a feature, or a review on YT - at least on my channel. I have enough makeup to last me a lifetime, I really don't _need _another eyeshadow or lipstick. So what is the reason behind doing a video on a product you hate, just to get sent more free stuff? Personally, I don't see the appeal there. I'm actually trying to _reduce _my collection because of storage issues. If I was sent a free product from a small company just starting out - for example a mineral makeup line - and I absolutely didn't like it, I just won't use the products and won't do a review. Now some people ask why I wouldn't say in a video that I hated the product? Is it because I'm worried about not getting sent free products in the future? No. Public relations people rarely look at past videos you have done for other companies, at least that's been my experience. The reason I wouldn't is because I realize that I have a huge audience, and my bad review could lead a start-up company into huge financial losses. I don't think that's fair to the company because I don't want one person's influential opinion to potentially ruin a company. Someone else might love the product, who would otherwise have been turned off by my review. These companies are obviously looking for more exposure and a positive review - we are aware of that. But I just don't see it as fair to slam a company's products if they are just trying to get the word out there. Often these are smaller family-run business or start-ups that do not have the budget to launch more "professional" campaigns like MAC or L'Oreal or whatever, so YT might be the only way they can get exposure. If I say something bad about MAC, chances are, it won't have much of an effect on MAC anyway because it's a huge worldwide company and probably only a tiny sliver of their potential customers watch YT. So, I think it's a fair resolution to just deny them that exposure on my channel if their product is not to my liking. I personally have many products that I've given away to friends and family because I have no use for them, and never featured them on my channel.

4. If a product is sent that really _is _great and deserves recognition - what's so bad on doing a video on it? Usually the title of a video is self-explanatory. If you're subbed to many of the "top gurus" and have already seen 1 or 2 videos reviewing the same brand (Sigma was the one mentioned) then why click on a 3rd video reviewing that same product? No one is forcing anyone to watch. And while you may have already seen a few reviews on that product, many others might not. Same principle applies to MUA - some products have thousands of reviews, doesn't mean you have to read them all, and you probably wouldn't. The vlogger might just be honestly excited about the product or brand, and wants to share his or her views with the audience. Rarely, if ever, are gurus paid for these videos featuring products.

5. Someone mentioned YTers not using products again they reviewed. That is a fair point, but you have to remember that many of us have vast makeup collections, including some faves we reach for all the time, just like anyone else. I've done videos with products that I genuinely love, and haven't used them in a 2nd video yet because maybe the color was so bold, or I just have so many other products to go through that I just haven't had the opportunity to use it again in a video. That doesn't mean we don't use the product again in our private lives. I'm sure many other YTers are in the same boat. I can say for the OCC lip tars which I genuinely love, I've worn NSFW many times in my private life and would repurchase if I ran out - but I've not used that exact color in a second video because I literally have so many products I can always switch it up.

6. Lastly, someone mentioned that YT should be a place to get ideas and to hear about new products, and I totally agree. I like to look at lots of different sources before I make a purchase decision, be it YT, MUA, Specktra or elsewhere. I never expect or want my viewers to _only _listen to my opinion and then - without doing any additional research - purchase a product I recommended on a whim. Chances are, they won't like it - it might not be right for them or their needs. But again, it's not a Vloggers responsibility to do all the research for viewers - videos are great to get product reviews and ideas, but ultimately the viewer has to decide for herself what she wants to purchase or skip over. I think some people are just getting lazy, and don't want to put in the effort to research a product a little bit before and get second opinions, and expect Vloggers to do everything for them. I try to incorporate pros and cons into my reviews if I feel there are certain cons that need to be addressed - for example with all those "Coastal Scents" type of palettes. But the fact is, you can't please everyone. If I review CS some people complain they are not good quality (even though they are so cheap), when I use Illamasqua others complain the products are too expensive. It's really impossible sometimes to please everyone.


I hope that helped to illuminate some of the issues at play here. I do feel that vloggers are sometimes used as scapegoats which is a bit unfair - most of us are just in this for fun, and to share our love of makeup with like minded people. If we _were _in this for money from YT Partnerships, you'd get richer investing the allotted time in a second job, rather than spending countless hours producing videos.


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## frocher (Jul 29, 2009)

......


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## LeeleeBell (Jul 30, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_4. If a product is sent that really is great and deserves recognition - what's so bad on doing a video on it? Usually the title of a video is self-explanatory. If you're subbed to many of the "top gurus" and have already seen 1 or 2 videos reviewing the same brand (Sigma was the one mentioned) then why click on a 3rd video reviewing that same product? No one is forcing anyone to watch. And while you may have already seen a few reviews on that product, many others might not. Same principle applies to MUA - some products have thousands of reviews, doesn't mean you have to read them all, and you probably wouldn't. The vlogger might just be honestly excited about the product or brand, and wants to share his or her views with the audience. Rarely, if ever, are gurus paid for these videos featuring products._

 
I am ever optimistic that each review might give me a different perspective or opinion...that's twhat I meant in posting this. I end up watching different reviews or going to different sites and (a) they are all reviewing the same products (is that all there is out there, hmmm) and (b) they are all saying the same things, the same way. I keep thinking I will get a different POV or new info, only to end up seeing the same review over and over. I can't help but become skeptical and annoyed.... It is more than a little redundant. It's not just 1 or 2 people doing the same review...It's like every person you watch and every blog you read. The hype is everywhere. It becomes one big infomercial for some products, so it's easy to guess where the freebies are coming from.  

 Quote:

  6. Lastly, someone mentioned that YT should be a place to get ideas and to hear about new products, and I totally agree. I like to look at lots of different sources before I make a purchase decision, be it YT, MUA, Specktra or elsewhere. I never expect or want my viewers to _only _listen to my opinion and then - without doing any additional research - purchase a product I recommended on a whim.  
 
With the example of the 88 palette or the OCC liptars or even Sigma brushes...they aren't available in stores. So we go on your word, and the word of other gurus and bloggers who have been sent the products to "try out". I respect and understand that we all have different tastes/expectations and what you might like I may not...really I do get that. But say you gave it a good review. And then 10 or 20 other reviewers did too...and some of them suggest these products are the best thing since sliced bread...It becomes like "wow that must be really amazing stuff, I've GOT to try it". That's where the hype really grabs at people and gets them to purchase stuff/try stuff that ends up being....less than great in some eyes. It's not that anyone was "lying" but the power of hype, without criticism (I know you do insert criticism but a lot of other reviewers don't)...really misleads people. I have learned my lesson of course...but I am just saying that despite your efforts to be honest, things do end up getting overhyped because *everyone* seems to be repeating the same review. I just wish more people would stop and check it out and say "ok 4 other youtubers/bloggers have already reviewed it. I'll just skip this review")

 Quote:

   I try to incorporate pros and cons into my reviews if I feel there are certain cons that need to be addressed - for example with all those "Coastal Scents" type of palettes. But the fact is, you can't please everyone. If I review CS some people complain they are not good quality (even though they are so cheap), when I use Illamasqua others complain the products are too expensive. It's really impossible sometimes to please everyone.  
 
I think the key is to a balance/equal reviews of both and to keep objectivity in there. I know you do that. Again, I think the biggest issue is just people repeating glowing reviews that have already been done 4 times before, and not adding any new info....I think the people with the wider audiences are usually the first to do the reviews and that's great. But why are there 20 copycats after the fact? I have to think it's probably because they're trying to get free stuff.


----------



## L1LMAMAJ (Jul 31, 2009)

their reviews may very well be biased if they got the product for free. suddenly a 5/10 product becomes 8/10. i'm not saying they do this on purpose. the fact that they got it for free is in their subconscious and it affects their real thoughts on the products. i agree with OP.


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## NernersHuman (Jul 31, 2009)

If I see another damn review for that Huge Lips Skinny Hips (the premise of which I find so profoundly offensive I'm not even going to elaborate or there will be curse words) I will run amok.

And sadly, I have to admit that after all the nightmare stories I have heard, everytime I see ANOTHER guru shilling for beautychoice.com, I lose a tiny bit of respect for them.


----------



## Willa (Jul 31, 2009)

But they all seem to love beautychoice.com...


----------



## RedRibbon (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *NernersHuman* 

 
_If I see another damn review for that Huge Lips Skinny Hips (the premise of which I find so profoundly offensive I'm not even going to elaborate or there will be curse words) I will run amok.

And sadly, I have to admit that after all the nightmare stories I have heard, everytime I see ANOTHER guru shilling for beautychoice.com, I lose a tiny bit of respect for them._

 
I just searched for that gloss on Google and I too am offended by it.  I wasn't aware that you had to have a small waist to have plumped lips.  Had I not seen the review I saw on youtube as a result of searching, I would have assumed that it was just a rhyming name.


----------



## User27 (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_I am ever optimistic that each review might give me a different perspective or opinion...that's twhat I meant in posting this._

 
You are my hero for having the nerve to post this. Various people that are thanked by me in this thread match exactly what I feel regarding youtube and various gurus. When that Beauty Factory palette and Coastal Scents palette craze kicked off, I said screw youtube for the most part after getting fed up seeing reviews always hyping them. I know I'm still subscribed to panacea, Enkore, Resha and a couple lower known people who take risks make up wise that I admire but have unsubscribed from at least 15 gurus within a few months. I didn't look back and look at websites such as Specktra, MUA and reviews that I know I can take as honest because there was nothing gained nor motive. 

To the people that receive the items from companies, more power to you. To the people like me that believed some of it, damn we were the asses that wasted the money. I have the 120 Manly palette that is the same as Beauty Factory because I believed the hype but still have yet to find out whether it contains safe ingredients or has been accurately tested....I will say I did 7 swatches for a friend and immediately washed my arm and let her know I didn't know the product safety stats and told her I was still afraid to use mine because as a friend I don't want to subject her to lead poisoning or something down the line if that proves the case. When I know it's been tested, than I will break it out but not until there's an official release of ingredients. Yay youtube hype for helping me make a purchase based on the must have of the season but I'm still terrified to break it in. Those palettes originate from China and Hong Kong and some articles in the past have been not so colorful regarding their factories and their safety so I'm looking out for me when I jumped too quick.

I'm glad it was cheap or I'd be annoyed but it sucks because their color payoff looked amazing swatch-wise but I need to know I'll be safe after long term exposure. I'm fed up with the product fanaticism and the shrines established to such messes but eh, I opted to quit relying on youtube past sxephil and my faves. I'll get heat for this but I did start buying Stila products based off of Shimmer's blogs but have seen amazing results with even their eye concealer so there's an opinion that changed my mind. Thanks for the honesty because I was sleeping on some decent products and personally thank you because I had seen it a hundred times before but never saw the effects. Specktra has saved me a lot spending wise compared to where I used to be because of leaping at youtube so thanks to Specktra.


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## TISH1124 (Jul 31, 2009)

^^ Sorry girl I didn't have time to read all that...I am busy watching all the BitchSlap reviews....  Maybe later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




j/k I did read it....


----------



## User27 (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_^^ Sorry girl I didn't have time to read all that...I am busy watching all the BitchSlap reviews.... Maybe later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





j/k I did read it.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
YouTube - nikkie20six's Channel

All I've got to say is everyone is suspect because I admired this chick for a minute....but commercial much? Her youtube page says it alone but when I saw the cat claws come out on this, I lost a lot of respect a lot of places. She was someone that spoke her mind intelligently but now even the background says it all......WWW.BITCHSLAP-COSMETICS.COM and I couldn't stand by that. Screw their hype and I'm going to point out the two faced nature of youtube on this one....she was enemy number one for bringing up the guru attitude problem and then she jumped on a bandwagon like anyone else did. Disappointment she was....


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## NernersHuman (Jul 31, 2009)

Where you been Tish? Bitch Slap was May's Flavor of the Month, although I know it can be hard to get caught up on your viewing with all that free swag flying around. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




A couple weeks ago TiffanyD (who I do like very much, don't get me wrong) did this VERY enthusiastic review of Josie Maran products, like they were manna from heaven or something. I haven't seen her use them for anything since, its been pretty much all MAC.

I personally have one Josie Maran product, a lipstick that lasts maybe all of 30 seconds on the lips.  For the price, a little more staying power would be appreciated. Argan oil, schmargan oil, I say.


----------



## frocher (Jul 31, 2009)

,,,,,


----------



## Willa (Jul 31, 2009)

Omg... the Bitch Slap website

Annoying, anyone?


----------



## Face2Mac (Jul 31, 2009)

This thread is going to get hot.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Willa* 

 
_Omg... the Bitch Slap website

Annoying, anyone?



_

 

Oh ya...and just the name turned me off. Guess that makes me a prude or something...


----------



## Willa (Jul 31, 2009)

To talk about the original subject, what is more annoying...

Knowing some girls can get stuff for free?
or
Knowing that online reviews by people like you arent reliable anymore?


----------



## NernersHuman (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Willa* 

 
_To talk about the original subject, what is more annoying...

Knowing some girls can get stuff for free?
or
Knowing that online reviews by people like you arent reliable anymore?_

 
Probably a bit of both. 

I think what gets me is that I KNOW that so many of these gurus have gotten so swept up in the free swag mobile they give gushing reviews just to keep the free train chugging along.  I'm not going to name names, I think most of us who watch with any regularity know who they are.

About Bitch Slap...the funniest thing about that to me is that it's no secret that those products come from a wholesaler called Ladyburd and I've seen the same products in numerous other lines, but so many gurus talk like the Bitch Slap owner is some kind of revolutionary.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Willa* 

 
_To talk about the original subject, what is more annoying...

Knowing some girls can get stuff for free?
or
Knowing that online reviews by people like you arent reliable anymore?_

 

Actually the OP was about the redundancy of hype. I don't care if people get
free stuff...who wouldn't be ok with that lol. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's just, everyone reviews the same freebies they get...it becomes overhyped because people just repeat the same reviews they have already seen done 10 times before. THAT's what bothers me...the
redundancy of hype.


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## frocher (Jul 31, 2009)

.......


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## Face2Mac (Jul 31, 2009)

Knowing that the online reviews aren't reliable b/c everyone doesn't/dpn't? have ethics and some will say anything to keep the companies coming.


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## Willa (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_Actually the OP was about the redundancy of hype. I don't care if people get
free stuff...who wouldn't be ok with that lol. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's just, everyone reviews the same freebies they get...it becomes overhyped because people just repeat the same reviews they have already seen done 10 times before. THAT's what bothers me...the
redundancy of hype._

 
Sorry Leelee, I was just trying to make the discussion go back to the original subject. I'm not saying what I wrote was 100 % what you meant... 

It was sort of a question, to poll people


----------



## User27 (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Willa* 

 
_To talk about the original subject, what is more annoying...

Knowing some girls can get stuff for free?
or
Knowing that online reviews by people like you arent reliable anymore?_

 
I don't mind people getting free things but I do mind if I purchase something based off of a biased review. Get all the free items you want, as I probably would, but please don't tell me how wonderful they are when they really aren't. That person's opinion matters to the thousands of people who watch and respect them and at one point, I was one of them. I remember seeing d******* gush over the palettes I ended up buying as well as quite a few others and then it came without a listing of ingredients. Do you but don't screw me if it's something you've gotten handed for free as I still matter to me. I can dismiss easily and didn't think twice about it but there are impressionable young girls who hold what you say as truth and rely on you to be honest with them and then scramble to buy what you've recommended to them so they can be like/look like you. Sure gurus didn't sign up to be babysitters but there are girls watching hours of videos trying to emulate them and want everything they have and what they used to have that look. When viewers get the crap items, they're let down by the people they had looked up to and it leaves them feeling cheated and lied to.

Bitch Slap.....for the woman who has been yanked up by Katt Williams and gotten the Bitch Slap she deserved. Copyright pending 7/31/09.


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## paperfishies (Jul 31, 2009)

As a makeup artist I can honestly say that I have received free products that I've absolutely positively HATED...It being free doesn't make me like it and it doesn't persuade me to like it.
The free stuff I've been given that I don't like, I either give away or give it to my 6 year old daughter to play with. 

I don't do youtube videos but I can totally understand why a Youtuber would review only products they like...why waste time on saying, "oh I hated this it sucked" Some of the YTers like Panacea81 ( I think I spelled that right) have a massive following...Could you imagine what would happen if she totally ripped on a product she received from a small company? It could potentially cause real harm to that very small company's financial system.

I can totally understand why "gurus" would review the same product. Each guru has their own unique audience and followers. People value opinions of different people. There are a few YTers who I wouldn't take skincare/makeup/product advice from if my life depended on it...There are others who I feel hit the nail on the head most of the time. If a guru has tried a product and feels it's a great product why wouldn't they do a review on it? Sigma brushes for example...Being a makeup artist brushes are probably the 2nd most important thing to me...I was pretty damn skeptical about these brushes until I saw a review from a guru I really like. I am a MAC brush girl all the way...i bit the bullet and ordered a few sets of these brushes after reading/watching a few reviews and I have to say, I love these damn brushes. I saw a few people on other boards say that a certain YTer who promoted sigma hardcore, didn't use the brushes very often in her tutorials,so they found it hard to believe the brushes were good...To me this wasn't a very valid point. As much as I love the sigma brushes, I almost always reach for a MAC brush first. It's habit and I have so damn many MAC brushes there are almost always a full clean set laying around and just because a product is really good doesn't mean someone will use it all the time...While I love sigma, MAC will probably always be my first choice. Same can go for eye shadows, foundations, lipsticks, etc. I think you have to take all opinions and things like that for what they are worth and just jump in there and try the products for yourself. Everyone has different tastes and no one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

I just don't understand why people find the redundancy of reviews obnoxious. Like I said earlier, each guru has their own audience...So it only makes sense for each guru to review the same products as other gurus, especially if they really like the product and want their audience to know. Hell if you even read in the comments for some videos there are people asking that specific guru to do reviews on certain products that have been reviewed by other YTers already.

Food for thought...why would a popular YTer give a good review to an item they honestly thought was crap? Wouldn't that be risking a lot for them as far as the Youtube universe goes? They are potentially risking losing loyal fans and subscribers and people would stop taking them seriously. So, in my opinion I don't think it's very likely for the bigger, well known YTers to give false and shady reviews for products they truly know are crap, it just doesn't make logical sense.  They may get more free stuff for while but that will eventually die off because their audience will shrink and no one will be offering someone with next to no audience free products to review/promote.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *paperfishies* 

 
_I just don't understand why people find the redundancy of reviews obnoxious. Like I said earlier, each guru has their own audience...So it only makes sense for each guru to review the same products as other gurus, especially if they really like the product and want their audience to know. Hell if you even read in the comments for some videos there are people asking that specific guru to do reviews on certain products that have been reviewed by other YTers already.
_

 

IMO there are more than 4 products to review out there at any given time. Or are only the freebies worth reviewing? Choosing to review the same product as others is one thing,  choosing to say exactly the same thing that has been said a dozen times before (and by gurus who reach the same people and more)...I don't see what the point is. Someone needs to enlighten me. It feels like a load of bs after  a while. Hype for hype's sake (and probably to entice companies to send more freebies). I don't like watching infomercials...but yes I have learned a lesson and will stick to watching 3 or 4 of my favorite "gurus" and take it all with a grain of salt.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Willa* 

 
_Sorry Leelee, I was just trying to make the discussion go back to the original subject. I'm not saying what I wrote was 100 % what you meant... 

It was sort of a question, to poll people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
It's no worries 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....just wanted to clarify that I have no issue with freebies or with people who review freebies...It's when people  review something that's already been reviewed a half dozen times that really gets on my nerves.

I did not mean to question whether people are reliable or not either in the OP...Take for example someone who honestly likes a product they review. Even if they actually "mean it"/ like a product...they don't HAVE to review it if it's already been done a half dozen times. They choose to. And that's what is annoying to me, lol...THAT is what makes me question reliability over time...that some are so repeatedly willing to jump into the hype game.


----------



## frocher (Jul 31, 2009)

.......


----------



## NernersHuman (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *paperfishies* 

 
_Food for thought...why would a popular YTer give a good review to an item they honestly thought was crap? Wouldn't that be risking a lot for them as far as the Youtube universe goes? They are potentially risking losing loyal fans and subscribers and people would stop taking them seriously. So, in my opinion I don't think it's very likely for the bigger, well known YTers to give false and shady reviews for products they truly know are crap, it just doesn't make logical sense. They may get more free stuff for while but that will eventually die off because their audience will shrink and no one will be offering someone with next to no audience free products to review/promote._

 

I used to think that too...but honestly I've come to believe that many people will believe a lot of these gurus even if they said curdled milk was the next great evolution in beauty.  Some folks just got the charisma, I guess.


----------



## TISH1124 (Jul 31, 2009)

^ I agree...some people have amazing persuasion...They can sell milk to a cow...I guess that is a good talent to have in certain businesses...Not so good if you happen to be a not so smart cow I reck'on


----------



## frocher (Jul 31, 2009)




----------



## malaviKat (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_To the people that receive the items from companies, more power to you. To the people like me that believed some of it, damn we were the asses that wasted the money. I have the 120 Manly palette that is the same as Beauty Factory because I believed the hype but still have yet to find out whether it contains safe ingredients or has been accurately tested....I will say I did 7 swatches for a friend and immediately washed my arm and let her know I didn't know the product safety stats and told her I was still afraid to use mine because as a friend I don't want to subject her to lead poisoning or something down the line if that proves the case. When I know it's been tested, than I will break it out but not until there's an official release of ingredients. Yay youtube hype for helping me make a purchase based on the must have of the season but I'm still terrified to break it in. Those palettes originate from China and Hong Kong and some articles in the past have been not so colorful regarding their factories and their safety so I'm looking out for me when I jumped too quick._

 
You bring up something here that has concerned me for a while and something that, in my opinion, has little to do with the hype of beauty gurus but is equally as important. Some of the products (palettes!) that have seemed to take off have been products with questionable origin stories. Worse are the versions that find themselves on ebay - they might have been the original product, they might have been "more affordable" dupes, it's hard to say.  Well established beauty/cosmetic companies have faced backlash for years as a result of their use of questionable ingredients. Why is it that now people are so willing to trust in cosmetics that hold no manufacturer liable? (Or at very least aren't easily traced?)


----------



## TISH1124 (Jul 31, 2009)

^I agree..as Vixxan pointed out to me awhile back...Sleek palettes seem to look identical to the original fraud MAC palettes that were on Ebay...Who knows ??


----------



## malaviKat (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *paperfishies* 

 
_I don't do youtube videos but I can totally understand why a Youtuber would review only products they like...why waste time on saying, "oh I hated this it sucked" Some of the YTers like Panacea81 ( I think I spelled that right) have a massive following...Could you imagine what would happen if she totally ripped on a product she received from a small company? It could potentially cause real harm to that very small company's financial system.
_

 
I think it takes a lot of backbone to say that a particular product did/does not perform well and a lot of honesty on the part of anyone who would admit this. While I understand your concern for smaller, startup companies, I still think a _fair_ review benefits everyone. If startup company A creates a lip product that does not perform well, then it's their lip product that does not perform well. Neither the reviewer, nor his/her audience should assume that this poor performance extends to said company's eye shadows or skin primers or (insert cosmetic here).  That is the basis of a fair review. It is not intended to slag a company, but merely to suggest that money ought to be spelt elsewhere. 

The benefit to this honesty is two-fold. First, audience members, avid cosmetics consumers etc. are not swayed to buy a poor product and, as a result, do not have their consumer confidence put into question.  Second, this provides a company an opportunity to reformulate their product to better meet the needs of its consumers. Case in point, from what I understand, was the original #187 brush offered by Sigma. This brush was initially very sparse, with fewer white fibers than was necessary to make it comparable to its intended competition. Based on criticsm from people like enKore, the brush was eventually redeveloped. Whether or not it is "perfect" now is moot. The fact is an honest opinion did not destroy the company and now consumers have an opportunity to buy a better product. If the company chose to ignore this criticism well then, as another poster said, that's capitalism, and consumers should speak with their wallets.

As far as larger companies go, people have long been honest about their opinion of MAC foundations (as an example). For some, MAC foundations have caused horrible breakouts and are products that they will no longer touch.  That said, the prevalence of this opinion has not slowed interest in either MAC foundations or the rest of their product line.  (I dare say that you won't see MAC reformulate products for anyone, either). It is however possible to be honest without harming a company.

The only thing I can think is that perhaps, for many YT gurus, their fame has destroyed the anonymity of the internet and this has made it harder for them to voice an opinion as they might have once done.  This is unfortunate, I agree, but to be honest, if that's the case I can't quite blame them.


----------



## Shimmer (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_IMO there are more than 4 products to review out there at any given time. Choosing to review the same product as others is one thing,  choosing to say exactly the same thing that has been said a dozen times before (and by gurus who reach the same people and more)...I don't see what the point is. Someone needs to enlighten me. It feels like a load of bs after  a while. Hype for hype's sake (and probably to entice companies to send more freebies). I don't like watching infomercials...but yes I have learned a lesson and will stick to watching 3 or 4 of my favorite "gurus" and take it all with a grain of salt._

 
The answer to this question is because the companies go on a bit of a blitz, all pushing the same product at the same time. MakeYouPretty Cosmetics will tell its Page Ranking dept. that they want the word out on SuperGorgeousProduct, so the PR dept will contact the bloggers/vloggers with whom a relationship has been established, and send out press kits.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but the problem bloggers/vloggers run into is that we all want our perspective out FIRST, so when readers/viewers see the review, they d on't say "Yeah saw this on xxxx site" or something like that.


----------



## paperfishies (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_^^ Sorry girl I didn't have time to read all that...I am busy watching all the BitchSlap reviews.... Maybe later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





j/k I did read it.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Ugh, I will admit the bitch slap thing is getting old.  Not only is their webpage the most obnoxious damn thing around, I've used the paint wheels and it is the crappiest crap I think I've used.  It's chunky and glittery and if you get a piece of that glitter in your eye, you are done for, it hurts and is a real bitch to flush out.
That company is such a turn off for me, from the promotions, the site, the name, youtube videos, all the drama whoring that went on on youtube. Ugh *pukes*.  It really does seem as though a lot of the YTers who promote bitch slap do so because they got shit loads of free products from them...I haven't really noticed a lot of the more popular guru's promoting that lame excuse for a company/product.  Blah, I just have such a huge problem with that company.  It seems like they are trying soooo freakin hard to be edgy and in your face that it becomes obnoxious, cheesey and lame.

I did find something that I found HILARIOUS, for some reason on the bitch slap site...If you go to the before and after photos on the site and scroll to the bottom...The chick who's pictures are at the bottom...she took her pictures of her "bitch slap" look at a MAC counter!  You can see the MAC brushes in beakers behind her, haha.  

WWW.BITCHSLAP-COSMETICS.COM


----------



## frocher (Jul 31, 2009)

........


----------



## lafemmenoir (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_Some things I want to clarify, not because I feel personally attacked at all, but more because I like being a part of the YT community and feel like I should try to highlight a few things from the other perspective. Most of the comments I've read are coming from people not involved in the video making process, so I just want to highlight some things from the other side of the coin. I do feel that overall, there are some pretty exaggerated statements thus far.

I hope that helped to illuminate some of the issues at play here. I do feel that vloggers are sometimes used as scapegoats which is a bit unfair - most of us are just in this for fun, and to share our love of makeup with like minded people. If we were in this for money from YT Partnerships, you'd get richer investing the allotted time in a second job, rather than spending countless hours producing videos._

 
Julia, while I commend you for standing up for vloggers, just as it is an option for people to watch videos, it's also an option to create videos.  It seems that some, not all vloggers are vlogging to promote themselves not a product.  Do you meant to say you aren't interested or counting how many views you get?  Or the ones receiving the most featured? It's gotten ridiculous how some will nearly tell you you will get good luck if you rate them five stars.  It's not personal, it seems it's become an infomericial or self promoting rather than informative.
In addition, a person can give a good review without being obvious or over the top, I have seen it done.  I don't think a product has to be slammed either in order to get an idea if one likes a product or not, I don't think it's fair to expect a "guru" to determine whether I make a purchase on a product, most can't for me, since the big named gurus don't have my coloring and therefore I can't discern how a product will look on me by how they wear or swatch it, I can get a general idea and that's all I want. 
I hadn't realised YT was a hobby since it has become such an extension (follow, my blog, Twitter, Facebook, BlogTV, etc.) it seems it would be a full time job for some. I don't knock it, as it worked well for Lauren Luke but she appears to not be shilling some of obvious companies.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *NernersHuman* 

 
_I used to think that too...but honestly I've come to believe that many people will believe a lot of these gurus even if they said curdled milk was the next great evolution in beauty.  Some folks just got the charisma, I guess._

 
Sadly, I agree with you. I am pretty skeptical before buying...careful, and if I can be persuaded...that's something. I work in retail and I know how easily persuaded some people are.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_The answer to this question is because the companies go on a bit of a blitz, all pushing the same product at the same time. MakeYouPretty Cosmetics will tell its Page Ranking dept. that they want the word out on SuperGorgeousProduct, so the Page Ranking dept will contact the bloggers/vloggers with whom a relationship has been established, and send out press kits.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but the problem bloggers/vloggers run into is that we all want our perspective out FIRST, so when readers/viewers see the review, they d on't say "Yeah saw this on xxxx site" or something like that._

 
I have seen several people in blog/yt reviews who said "I bought x because I saw Tiffany talking about it in her video" and then they proceed to give exactly the same review Tiffany did (exactly the same way)...nothing else to add or say. So basically this person was (a) either trying to get free product because they know the company sends freebies out to youtubers and/or (b) wanting to jump on the review bandwagon...adding to hype that's not necessary


----------



## TISH1124 (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lafemmenoir* 

 
_Julia, while I commend you for standing up for vloggers, just as it is an option for people to watch videos, it's also an option to create videos. *It seems that some, not all vloggers are vlogging to promote themselves not a product.* Do you meant to say you aren't interested or counting how many views you get? Or the ones receiving the most featured? It's gotten ridiculous how some will nearly tell you you will get good luck if you rate them five stars. It's not personal, it seems it's become an infomericial or self promoting rather than informative.
In addition, a person can give a good review without being obvious or over the top, I have seen it done. I don't think a product has to be slammed either in order to get an idea if one likes a product or not, I don't think it's fair to expect a "guru" to determine whether I make a purchase on a product, most can't for me, since the big named gurus don't have my coloring and therefore I can't discern how a product will look on me by how they wear or swatch it, I can get a general idea and that's all I want. 
I* hadn't realised YT was a hobby since* *it has become such an extension* *(follow, my blog, Twitter, Facebook, BlogTV, etc.) it seems it would be a full time job for some.* I don't knock it, as it worked well for Lauren Luke but she appears to not be shilling some of obvious companies._

 
well said....I can't speak for most ...But I notice that some bloggers...NOT ALL...will do anything to get followers...they almost beg for followers...I mean some are so bad they damn near buy members with free stuff...Oh wait they are called contest....But of course you have to be a follower to compete in the contest..Not makeup skills, looks etc...Just follow me and you are entered in the contest????....I mean to each their own I just choose to follow a select few because I genuinely like their look, like their attitude, they have mad skillz,  and I like that they are having fun with what they do. It's the monkey sees monkey do's that get on my nerve...they bash the bloggers then the next week they have a blog. wtf???
I mean thank goodness for the ones that do get free stuff..some of the people spend tons of money every week just so they can have something to review to get followers...I mean how beneficial is that? I guess I just don't get it...

But some people do have the skillz to sell without speaking and I applaud that talent...Hell, Lawd knows I have bought every damn pink lipstick Shimmer wears in her fotd's and they still don't look like that one me...damnit to hell!!!


----------



## frocher (Jul 31, 2009)

.............


----------



## user79 (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lafemmenoir* 

 
_Julia, while I commend you for standing up for vloggers, just as it is an option for people to watch videos, it's also an option to create videos.  It seems that some, not all vloggers are vlogging to promote themselves not a product.  Do you meant to say you aren't interested or counting how many views you get?  Or the ones receiving the most featured?_

 
Of course it is rewarding when one of my videos gets upwards of 100,000 views or gets featured, it shows me that people are liking what I do and that they are sharing that video with other people because something about it "grabbed them". Am I supposed to be feel guilty about that? Sure, it makes me happy. But I never know which video is going to be a hit, and I don't produce videos specifically to become a hit. I make videos that are fun and challenge me, or build on a new creative idea, etc. If I was in it purely to get hits, I'd do more celebrity looks (Kim Kardashian, Angelina Jolie, Megan Fox anyone) or other subjects such as that. Of course, you do have to throw in some of those looks because of tons of requests for them. There's nothing wrong with feeling pride in one's work though, so I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say - should I not be allowed to feel happy when a video becomes popular? BUT, to me personally, it's not the most important thing. Some of my most fave videos do not have very many views in comparison to other more "popular" ones.


 Quote:

  I hadn't realised YT was a hobby since it has become such an extension (follow, my blog, Twitter, Facebook, BlogTV, etc.) it seems it would be a full time job for some.  
 
A lot of videographers, not only in the makeup sphere, have Twitter or Facebook. Heck, people have these things outside of YT as well. So, why can't videographers promote their own personal sites on their channel? I personally love interacting with my viewers through these other sites, and I update when I have the time and interest. Sometimes I'm busy and then I just don't. I personally don't see what the problem is with having those other sites - if it's no interest to you, just don't follow or subscribe to them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




PS: What you said about Lauren Luke isn't quite true - she is sort of a unique case in the YT community anyway, but she was actually _paid _by Barry M to explicitly promote and use their products exclusively in many videos she did. And, she also gets gratis from other lines, I think Clinique and Bobbi Brown, which she does product placement for. So, she too collaborated with a makeup company.


The general vibe I am getting from this thread is that there are some people out there probably on YT who are in this just to get free products, and there's probably others who are pissed off that some people get gratis while they themselves do not. But I just want to reiterate that as a viewer, you shouldn't underestimate the personal integrity of a videographer just because they have tons of subscribers and viewers and get sent products. The draw of free product is not that great to some that they're willing to give a good review on a bad product. However, we also shouldn't undervalue the importance of viewers conducting their own additional research on a product and not just taking one person's word on anything. I can only offer my own opinion on something, and ANY review will be biased - that's the point, one person's personal opinion on something. Be it in a magazine or on a blog.

BTW since someone did bring up magazine reviews - do you honestly think that magazines aren't paid or sponsored by huge companies such as Chanel, Dior, Lancome, MAC etc to feature their products in their magazines? Come on, money talks. These companies are the lifeline of fashion and beauty magazines in the form of big dollar advertisements within the pages. If a magazine like Vogue or Elle were to publish relentlessly negative reviews on Dior cosmetics, do you think Dior would happily continue to spend thousands of dollars on advertising? I mean, have you ever seen a negative review on a cosmetic in a big name fashion mag? No. So to say that magazines are more reliable and unbiased in their opinions is completely false - even popular industry insiders, for example Johnny Lavoy, have spoken up on this issue.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_BTW since someone did bring up magazine reviews - do you honestly think that magazines aren't paid or sponsored by huge companies such as Chanel, Dior, Lancome, MAC etc to feature their products in their magazines? Come on, money talks. These companies are the lifeline of fashion and beauty magazines in the form of big dollar advertisements within the pages. If a magazine like Vogue or Elle were to publish relentlessly negative reviews on Dior cosmetics, do you think Dior would happily continue to spend thousands of dollars on advertising? Please! I mean, have you ever seen a negative review on a cosmetic in a big name fashion mag? No. So to say that magazines are more reliable and unbiased in their opinions is completely false - even popular industry insiders, for example Johnny Lavoy, have spoken up on this issue._

 
I am well aware of that myself...I realize it's done. But a lot of the products reviewed in magazines etc...we can go into stores and try for ourselves...or return if the product sucks. A lot of beauty blogs/you tube channels hype products/items that are only available online, from startup/new companies...that we have no way of "testing" in person. That's the difference to me. I think everyone "expects" magazines to hype products that they've been paid to promote....I am not sure that everyone expects youtubers/beauty bloggers to become "commercial spokespeople".

But again, to me that isn't the issue I was bringing up in the OP...although I think I have repeated myself one too many times on the matter


----------



## user79 (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_ I think everyone "expects" magazines to hype products that they've been paid to promote....I am not sure that everyone expects youtubers/beauty bloggers to become "commercial spokespeople"._

 
Hence where personal integrity comes in. My statement is that not all bloggers and vloggers can be "bought" with the allure of a free lipgloss. Bloggers and vloggers write or talk about things that hold their interest - whether that item was purchased or free should make no difference to the quality and honesty of the review.


----------



## TISH1124 (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_ Am I supposed to be feel guilty about that? Sure, it makes me happy. But I never know which video is going to be a hit, and I don't produce videos specifically to become a hit. I make videos that are fun and challenge me, or build on a new creative idea, etc._

 
I think what you don't get is...You are ONE of the many exceptions to this rule IMO...and although I know you want to defend YTbloggers...but it is not directed at the true YTboggers that really have their facts together, offer helpful information, are TALENTED, people we can look at their work and say...WOW, now she/he knows makeup and knows how to apply it and knows the quality of good from bad....She has used all brands and she likes many different brands and is not just biased to the ones that simply offer free products....
I mean you have put your time in and worked hard ...you deserve your following...But you also don't have to beg for followers...you already have a good reputation established by your work alone...What about the bloggers who can't even arch their brows, are cluless on how to contour, fotd's look worse than mine...and thats bad....they bounce from product to product daily....and every product is SIMPLY THE BEST....But they want to blog just because it's cool and they are offering no valuable information whatsoever....but yet they are popping up daily....Just because you might like makeup does not make you an authority on it especially when you have no skillz at application....
So yes, you should be proud! You have amazing skills and know what works and what doesn't....But the other people polluting the www are simply trying to be like you with no experience or knowledge of doing so but hoping just because they beg up on followers they will appear that they MUST know something when they don't know squat. I mean damn...just because a person likes food does not make them a Chef....

They want to review consumer products...but have no knowledge of doing it...so those just want freebies


----------



## Face2Mac (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_Of .

T Please! I mean, have you ever seen a negative review on a cosmetic in a big name fashion mag? No._

 
Actually, yes. Allure magazine has women test products all the time and print their honest opinions of them. Usually it is face creams, anti-aging products or whether one red lipstick fits all coloring, and usually it is a mixed review. They have one it was fantastic and one it was horrible, you get both sides and sometimes they will outright bash a product (a big name company too.)  People Style Magazine even prints whether you are a clown for wearing blue eyeliner and post of poll of it. 

I strictly come to specktra for reviews from these informed ladies. I have tuned all the other stuff out, I usually wait now until products have been released for a while, I might be late, but I won't have threw money down the drain. I watch YT strictly for color combinations and MAC hauls. I think your videos are fab.


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## frocher (Jul 31, 2009)

.............


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## LeeleeBell (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_Hence where personal integrity comes in. My statement is that not all bloggers and vloggers can be "bought" with the allure of a free lipgloss. Bloggers and vloggers write or talk about things that hold their interest - whether that item was purchased or free should make no difference to the quality and honesty of the review._

 
I know it's true that not _all_ bloggers and vloggers can be bought, but a whole lot of them out there seem to be trying really hard lol...Enough of them that we are noticing and getting annoyed by it. 

I ditto the posts above who are saying this isn't about you, but more about your "copycats" out there, perhaps riding on your coattails and trying to do the exactly the same reviews as you/other trusted sources just to get free stuff. And then of course, there are those out there who just do it (copy reviews that have been done 6+ times), because they have NILS (name in lights syndrome).


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## TISH1124 (Jul 31, 2009)

Oh NILS....thats it.....love that! So true!!


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## lafemmenoir (Jul 31, 2009)

I did not mean to offend you Julia, not at all, if you or ANYONE wants to make a web page, Twitter, Facebook, BlogTV, or buy and give all the makeup, host contests etc. that's your choice, but what I was saying was along the line of "gurus" stating how this is a "hobby" but it seems this is more of a job for them.  Heck, I couldn't do it and I can't pretend to walk in your shoes, but anyone who tells me they don't get something more than the, "I do this just because I love you all..." doesn't strike me as real.  Seriously, you mean to tell me there is no narcissism in the makeup guru community?  What me shop with "xyz" guru ... It's easy for gurus to think people are hating on them because they're doing videos and putting in their time, money etc, but they will diss each other, diss some of their followers and compare who has the most in terms of numbers in a minute.
Please don't feel I am hating on you since most of the gurus used to be frequent posters on many of the same forums I am a part of so I don't think they are doing anything I can't do; however, makeup is shopping for me, it's not my life and though I may blog I don't do it for anything other than to put my money where my mouth is when I do make purchases and I don't advertise or anything so no before anyone says I'm jealous or hating, it's just an observation not directed toward anyone.  I am more than happy for Lauren Luke, she was able to make her dream happen and get her name out there, this was a career strategy for her and I've noticed a few "gurus" dissing her skills, but one has to admit, she made good and I applaud her for it. Again, makeup is fun, I love it, but I try not to take it too serious and am offended when gurus or even sales people try to sell me anything, as I said, you can give a review indicating pro's and con's (yes magazines will do this) and say how it worked for them, what they liked or if it fared well during the day without being harsh.  I enjoy YouTube, but at the end of the day, it's one of many outlets I use to advance either my skills, knowledge or simple entertainment.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Aug 1, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_Oh NILS....thats it.....love that! So true!!_

 









 Appropriate isn't it? Wish I could take credit for the term but I used to see that used all the time on some tv show boards I used to frequent.


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## L1LMAMAJ (Aug 1, 2009)

well i do appreciate the fact that people take the time to do reviews. i don't really mind the redundancy. it's good to have different opinions from many people. it's when people seem to have biased opinions about it because they got it for free. sorry i think i strayed a bit off topic on my last post in this thread. carry on ladies.


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## ms. kendra (Aug 1, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_Oh ya...and just the name turned me off. Guess that makes me a prude or something..._

 
I agree. I almost jumped on the Bitchslap bandwagon, but I really don't feel comfortable buying products with that name. My daughter and I often play in makeup together so how would that look? Or if I get a compliment at church and someone asks me the name of the eyeshadow and I say, "It's called Baddest Bitch." Can you imagine??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's all tacky IMO.

Regarding the OP, there have been good points made all around, but I have to agree with MissChievious with the statement that you don't have to watch. I get tired of the same reviews too, and it is the company's fault for sending out stuff all at once like that, because we then get flooded with the same reviews and everybody raving about it. I simply don't watch them. 

Again, good points all around.


----------



## RedRibbon (Aug 1, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Willa* 

 
_To talk about the original subject, what is more annoying...

Knowing some girls can get stuff for free?
or
Knowing that online reviews by people like you arent reliable anymore?_

 
To me, neither is really annoying.  It evokes an emotion in me but I don't think it's annoying as I don't really watch the YT vids and then go out and buy what is the latest wonder treatment, I tend to spend a lot of time thinking if I need it or not and then I test it out before I buy it.  

I don't really care/feel anything for people getting free stuff..I mean they must have done some pretty noticeable videos in the past (without free stuff) to get companies wanting to send them stuff, I doubt there are any YT noobs who get free stuff off the bat.  

I think that if you get free stuff then you should be honest enough to review it fairly as otherwise (as I said before) it's not really a review, you're just being paid to say something is good and although that has always been the way in beauty magazines I suppose the people who watch YT expect the people to be honest in their reviews because they're "normal" people and not salaried beauty magazine writers.

Basically, to me it comes down to being unfair..especially if the product is pricey/out of your budget and you watch a YT video where the person has gotten the product for free and they give it a glowing reference, you go out and buy it and it's crap.  The reason you buy it is because you think they're giving an honest review, in that case I'd be a bit more than pissed off, not because you've wasted money but because the person hasn't been honest because they're being paid to say it's good.  

Some YT's might become comfortable getting all this stuff for free and so may decide to give glowing references to products which they would find as being just ok had they shelled the money out for it.  I'm not saying all YT'ers do that but I can see why you would, everyone loves getting stuff for free. 




 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_^I agree..as Vixxan pointed out to me awhile back...Sleek palettes seem to look identical to the original fraud MAC palettes that were on Ebay...Who knows ??_

 
I only saw the fake MAC Sleek lookalike palettes on ebay after Sleek became a brand that people noticed.  Having said that, from the handful of times I checked MAC on ebay before I came to this site, all I ever saw were pigments etc..never any palettes.


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## TISH1124 (Aug 1, 2009)

^^^I am not sure when Sleek became a brand.....but the fake MAC palettes were from last year (2008)...that is when I originally saw them...and not to say they have any bearings on one another at all..I have no clue...that is just when the Fake MAC's were originally posted...anyone can use similar packaging that is no biggie...The fake MAC palettes are not new to the scene by any means


----------



## RedRibbon (Aug 1, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_^^^I am not sure when Sleek became a brand.....but the fake MAC palettes were from last year (2008)...that is when I originally saw them...and not to say they have any bearings on one another at all..I have no clue...that is just when the Fake MAC's were originally posted...anyone can use similar packaging that is no biggie...The fake MAC palettes are not new to the scene by any means_

 
I thought Sleek was a new brand but it's been around for 19 years, I only saw the MAC palettes this year what with me being a noob to makeup.  I know the Sleek palettes have been around for about 2 years, going on me actually seeing them.


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## TISH1124 (Aug 1, 2009)

I guess I am missing the point you are making? I am not saying that the Sleek palettes are counterfeited?? I am saying the MAC fake palettes look like the sleek design....Again as stated anyone can buy and sell similar compacts they are not exclusive to one manufacturer. ...I don't keep up with counterfeits because I buy direct from the stores so i am not an expert on what or where things originate from or who did what design first


----------



## RedRibbon (Aug 1, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_I guess I am missing the point you are making? I am not saying that the Sleek palettes are counterfeited?? I am saying the MAC fake palettes look like the sleek design....Again as stated anyone can buy and sell similar compacts they are not exclusive to one manufacturer. ...I don't keep up with counterfeits because I buy direct from the stores so i am not an expert on what or where things originate from or who did what design first_

 
Oh no, I realise you're not saying that at all.  My original point was that I thought the MAC fakers had seen the Sleek palettes and taken their design from that as I hadn't seen those specific palettes on ebay before whenever I'd (very rarely) ebay MAC to see what came up.  But as  you said, I was clearly wrong as that palette design has been used by MAC fakers for a while.


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## Dr_Girlfriend (Aug 8, 2009)

*Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Ugh.. It doesn't matter what type of video you're watching, if you leave a comment that someone doesn't agree with, you just get a ton of rude comments AND a ton of even ruder (is that a word LOL) private messages?  I finally shut down my account because I'm just sick of it.  Why can't other social networking sites be like this one where you can respectfully disagree with someone and not be caught in a s*it storm?


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## bextacyaddict (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

hmm im kinda sick of it... it just seems to be pretty quiet.
also ive had to change me password cuz me boyfriend keeps thinking he can "check" it for me, like read new comments before me and stuff... grr...

i have the stupid swine flu at the moment, and of course i havent been going anywhere so ive just been in bed with the laptop just looking on youtube ALL DAY.
im sick of looking at it
cant wait to get back to my tutorials thought... having make up withdrawal atm


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## RedRibbon (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Another thing I don't get is incessant haul videos.


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## prettysecrets (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Youtube was my teacher at one point. I find lately its just boring tho. I want to see more tut.,less hauls and more ppl w/ actually talent posting $hit..I usually keep comments to myself to avoid a youtube fight.lol


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## Boasorte (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Youtube was also my teacher? Now it's boring, and unoriginal.
But I didn't only go on there for makeup, I just liked watching random videos, and clips of my favourite shows ( Bad Girls Club, etc)
And the "Youtube thugging" has gone to an all time high, I don't bother leaving comments anymore, just watch the video, and get off
edit:^^^^^ yes to more tutorials, I'm so tired of these haul videos, and stupid contess just to gain subscribers, and I agee with the more talented people....


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## Elusive21 (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Yep YouTube is getting a bit dull for me as well. I agree that we need more tutorials (although I do like the haul videos - stilll want to keep watching those). One thing that irks me is when gurus promote products that they received for free from beautychoice and it's obvious that it's a product they wouldn't have bought themselves if they had to actually pay for it.


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## Dr_Girlfriend (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

I totally agree with all of you lovelies.  I know this is going to sound petty but...
I was watching a skincare video by one of the gurus (she used to post here all the time but now I guess she's moved on to bigger and "better" things ..) Someone left a comment to the effect of all skinny girls have oily skin because of their high metabolism.  All I said in the response (and I was completely not calling her an idiot) that correlation does not always equal causation.  Whoa did she get pissed! Left a rude message on the comments and then sent me a PM calling me an idiot and a cunt and telling me I need to take my meds and shut the f*ck up!  So I responded to her saying it wasn't a personal attack and that is MY opinion on the issue.  Then I deleted my account because I'm just sick of it.  She then responds saying that I'm not who I say I am and I'm not really a pharmacist because I deleted my acct as soon as I typed my rebuttal.  Ugh... I don't know why I was letting it get to me... People are morons.  I'm MUCH rather read a tutorial here on Specktra than try to watch all of the gurus post the SAME tutorials and haul videos and review videos...

Oh and before I forget... about the reviews... I WILL NOT take it seriously until I see one of the gurus actually USE the product(s) in a tutorial.. So far I haven't seen that... Eh.. whatever. LOL


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## gildedangel (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

I find myself skipping over a lot of videos as well. I am so done with hauls and reviews of the same products by different people. Maybe I will feel better once people start doing makeup looks for halloween, I love those videos and it is almost tutorial overload!


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## MissCrystal (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

seems like every1 and their mothers are making youtube videos now, now theres nothing wrong with that except when you go to their profiles and they have comments like 'if your a beauty company wanting me to review your products email me' and then they have nothing for their subscribers if they want to contact them, that drives me crazzy !!


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## RedRibbon (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Dr_Girlfriend* 

 
_I totally agree with all of you lovelies.  I know this is going to sound petty but...
I was watching a skincare video by one of the gurus (she used to post here all the time but now I guess she's moved on to bigger and "better" things ..) Someone left a comment to the effect of all skinny girls have oily skin because of their high metabolism.  All I said in the response (and I was completely not calling her an idiot) that correlation does not always equal causation.  Whoa did she get pissed! Left a rude message on the comments and then sent me a PM calling me an idiot and a cunt and telling me I need to take my meds and shut the f*ck up!  So I responded to her saying it wasn't a personal attack and that is MY opinion on the issue.  Then I deleted my account because I'm just sick of it.  She then responds saying that I'm not who I say I am and I'm not really a pharmacist because I deleted my acct as soon as I typed my rebuttal.  Ugh... I don't know why I was letting it get to me... People are morons.  I'm MUCH rather read a tutorial here on Specktra than try to watch all of the gurus post the SAME tutorials and haul videos and review videos...

Oh and before I forget... about the reviews... I WILL NOT take it seriously until I see one of the gurus actually USE the product(s) in a tutorial.. So far I haven't seen that... Eh.. whatever. LOL_

 
How rude! 

I had a first part of my message but it got deleted when I edited, it said something like:

I remember watching a review by this girl who was saying something like "this works really well for me but it may be different for you guys because we're not all the same, and I'm not sure if it's available where you live".  Someone replied saying something like "we're all different? we already know that genius, why don't you just review the product? And why do you not review stuff which is available everywhere to buy?" 

How rude! The owner of the channel replied in a really mature way and said that she reviewed what she liked and only took requests from people who had manners. 

Some people take the reviews on youtube as if they're their god given rights, most of the reviewers aren't paid to give reviews.


----------



## Boasorte (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissCrystal* 

 
_seems like every1 and their mothers are making youtube videos now, now theres nothing wrong with that except when you go to their profiles and they have comments like 'if your a beauty company wanting me to review your products email me' and then they have nothing for their subscribers if they want to contact them, that drives me crazzy !!_

 
That I dont get as well, especially when it's someone who just gottheir YT account 3 days prior, and is already wanting free products, meh


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## rbella (Aug 8, 2009)

Doesn't really matter to me anymore.  One person can hate something and I still might like it and vice versa.  I watch you tube and read blogs mostly to see tuts and/or to know about what has been newly launched.  I form my own opinion on the product by going to look at it first.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Aug 9, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Doesn't really matter to me anymore.  One person can hate something and I still might like it and vice versa.  I watch you tube and read blogs mostly to see tuts and/or to know about what has been newly launched.  I form my own opinion on the product by going to look at it first._

 
I think that's true for most of us. But Sigma makeup brushes, 88 palettes, 120 palettes, OCC liptars, Bslap cosmetics (whatever the flavor of the month is)... etc etc are products that youtube gurus receive, hype... and are not available for most of us to "try" for ourselves.  
I find it hard to believe that there are only 5 products for ALL these "gurus" and bloggers to review at the same time (or are freebies the only products worth reviewing these days?). When we see two dozen people reviewing the same thing, the same way, saying the same thing....it's overkill. At least to me....and it's not like I can go in and try it *all* out for myself at a store nearby. There are also a lot of people who are new to makeup or who live in towns/places that aren't near a Sephora/MAC/ULTA or a large mall full of cosmetics...They rely on reviews and boards to find what they might like/want.. That's why I have a problem with the hype....If they are going to do a review, at least be original/unique...say something that hasn't already been said at least a dozen times.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *prettysecrets* 
_  Youtube was my teacher at one point. I find lately its just boring tho. I want to see more tut.,*less hauls and more ppl w/ actually talent posting $hit.*_

 
I definitely prefer seeing tuts to seeing product reviews these days. I feel as though youtube make up vids are becoming one large infomercial....A lot of people who know even less than I do about makeup are doing vids just for the sake of possibly getting free stuff. It's comical in a way...like watching kids play dress up.


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## ms. kendra (Aug 9, 2009)

Ditto on more tuts and less reviews/hauls or "this months faves." Who cares?? 

I haven't watched any subscribed videos in about a month because that's all there is lately.

I noticed Petrilude gets a lot of feedback that he is snotty. Have any of you noticed this?


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## sunshine16 (Aug 9, 2009)

I really don't agree with the "If there's already 4 videos on it don't do another sentiment"
Why should a YT'er have to spend 40-60 minutes watching every other video on the topic they're wanting to talk about just to make sure they don't say something similar to save the viewer 10 minutes of their lives watching something thats already been done.
To be honest i find that sentiment selfish, if you don't want to watch a video thats already been done don't watch it, it's that simple!

Your not paying for their service nor are you being forced to watch it so what they do their videos on is their prerogative.


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 9, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sunshine16* 

 
_I really don't agree with the "If there's already 4 videos on it don't do another sentiment"
Why should a YT'er have to spend 40-60 minutes watching every other video on the topic they're wanting to talk about just to make sure they don't say something similar to save the viewer 10 minutes of their lives watching something thats already been done.
To be honest i find that sentiment selfish, if you don't want to watch a video thats already been done don't watch it, it's that simple!

Your not paying for their service nor are you being forced to watch it so what they do their videos on is their prerogative._

 
I am not sure why you think it's selfish??? Are they making vids for themselves or for people who watch? Are haul videos/product review videos forms of "self expression" or are they supposed to be trying to impart information to others? Isn't the point to inform viewers? I tend to think they are for the sake of "helping" others...in most cases. So, if they are making vids for their viewers, why do they think the same info needs to be seen over and over again...why not try doing something original? Really are there only a few (freebie) items worth reviewing? I ask myself these questions and I am posing them here for discussion...and I see that I am not the only one who wonders the same thing. 

You're right. I don't have to watch them. And once I see (usually 20-30 seconds in) that yet THE SAME video is being made again, I do skip over the rest of it.  Just exercising my right to say that it bugs me to see reruns of infomercials and I wish there was more variety to the vids because I USED to enjoy watching them. I am not sure why it's selfish to express that preference. ... I think I have a right as a viewer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Quote:

  Why should a YT'er have to spend 40-60 minutes watching every other video on the topic they're wanting to talk about just to make sure they don't say something similar  
 
Its not 40-50 minutes at a time...it's more like 5-7 minutes a day tops...These vids/reviews don't usually come out on the same day....It feels like it sometimes though lol. If they enjoy makeup as much as I/many other Specktra members do, they are probably watching those reviews/vids daily and reading the blogs anyway. It's not like they would be going out of their way to see what's been reviewed and said. No one has to go out of their way to find out what's being hyped. It's constantly in your face.

Personally, I check two message boards and subscribe to about 40 youtube beauty videomakers, and occasionaly read 2-3 blogs (sporadically). (Now of the 40 I subscribe to, I don't watch every single video--I would have no life. Also, not all of the people I am subscribed to make vids regularly). But with all those people, I still see the same reviews and products featured constantly. Very strange to me. And with the sigma brushes some of the reviews are beyond "similar"...they are more like scripted.


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## LatteQueen (Aug 9, 2009)

It's like with me ..I am on here and reading and most are saying of how great CG Lash Blast is ..I had tried that mascara years ago and it didn't do a thing for me..So on here I read how wonderful this is..really gets my lashes......this is a must have.....So I go out and invest in this product again years later and still no greatness to me..TO ME this product is up there with Maybelline's Great Lash..IT SUCKS...So to this day I am still behooved of why this mascara is so wonderful after reading the POSITIVE REVIEWS ON IT..I went out and bought MAX FACTOR'S Version of this and guess what this product IMO  beats CG Lash Blast by 100 miles..But I read the NEGATIVE REVIEWS on Max Factor's 2000 mascara..
Positive reviews on LASH BLAST
Negative reviews on MAX FACTOR'S..But the negative reviews turned out to be better for me in the long run of this mascara..go figure..


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## LMD84 (Aug 9, 2009)

as far as youtube getting boring now i don't agree with that. i still watch videos on tutorials that i think are slightly different and original.  haul videos, reviews and such i  don't even bother with anymore really. it's sad to see that some people who used to do loads of tutorials now only really do hauls or reviews....


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## rbella (Aug 9, 2009)

If your seeing/watching reviews that bother you, then stop watching them.  You know that Julia and Tiff do honest reviews, so if that is what you are looking for, then stick with those people.  Use the others for technique, etc.  JMO.


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## rbella (Aug 9, 2009)

As a sidenote, that is why I don't read the Colour Threads on here anymore. Every launch rocks and every product is a must-have.  Just removed myself from the irritation of it.


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## frocher (Aug 9, 2009)

...........


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## rbella (Aug 9, 2009)

^^^Absolutely, I agree with that statement.  I was just using it as an example as to how you can simply stay away from something if you feel it isn't giving you what you need.  

I, too would be annoyed with the mass quantities of vids and blogs stating how great everything is, but, I just stay away from the ones I don't particularly care for.  Much like the Colour Threads.


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## Hikaru-chan (Aug 9, 2009)

I do agree that a fair few guru's take the piss and only review stuff they get for free in the hopes of getting more free stuff and it's blatantly obvious  too. Beautychoice and Coastal Scents for example, both get constant glowing reviews but their customer service is shit and their product are not unique to that brand.
I will not mention names but certain guru's have a " I'm better than you attitude"  and it comes across on screen, it's almost like we the viewers owe them something. They review a product and we should belive every word they say even though it's clearly been given to them for free, usually they will say the company's name a gazillion times and put "links in the sidebar".
Now having say that I've bought products that have been reviewed by guru's I trust and I've simply hated it, Barry M lip paint in 101 for example is the worst lipstick I've ever come across however loads of other people love it an not just the ones that got it for free, everyone is different.
It doesn't bother me if they do get free products however they should'nt just act as free marketing for certain companies that then treat the consumer badly.
PS I love Julia's YT and blog, you really have nothing to worry about.


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## Hikaru-chan (Aug 9, 2009)

Dr_Girlfriend who was it that spoke to you like that? I have a fair idea of who it could be if you don't wanna post for everyone to see would you send me a PM, I'm just being nosy really but it's because I have a feeling on who it might be.


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## chocolategoddes (Aug 9, 2009)

I love how this is turning into a "What I Hate About YT" thread. lol

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ms. kendra* 

 
_ Or if I get a compliment at church and someone asks me the name of the eyeshadow and I say, "It's called Baddest Bitch." Can you imagine??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's all tacky IMO._

 
OMG! That's hilarious!!!
_-hello, Sister Mary, how are you?_
_-Oh, hello my child. You look beautiful today. What are you wearing on your eyes?_
_-The eyeshadow is called "Baddest Bitch" and I used "Skanky Ho Bitch" liner to smoke it out._
_-*gasp* Lord have MERCYYYY!_

lmao irl

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *RedRibbon* 

 
_Another thing I don't get is incessant haul videos._

 
I especially hate it when the haul videos are just basically "_Hey, look what I bought_". At least, tell me about the product and what made you buy it.
I'll only watch a haul video if it's by a youtuber I trust and whose makeup I admire.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ms. kendra* 

 
_I noticed Petrilude gets a lot of feedback that he is snotty. Have any of you noticed this?_

 
Yeah, he's addressed it a lot. You can tell he's just really annoyed by it all. I never got a snotty, arrogant vibe from him. He's a really cool guy, actually.


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## rbella (Aug 9, 2009)

I actually liked Coastal Scents.  Am I weird or something?  I didn't see it from any yt, but from here.  Why does everyone hate it so much?  My shipping was fast and the eyeshadows are nice.  Sorry, off topic, but I like it and am wondering if I am missing something.


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## KellyBean (Aug 9, 2009)

Another thing that really bothers me is when gurus give products wonderful reviews, and then never actually use the products. "This stuff is amazing! My new favorite foundation!" and then in the next video "I've applied my Studio Fix with my 182..." 

I saw this a lot with Coastal Scents products, and a few times with Sigma brushes.


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## Dr_Girlfriend (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *RedRibbon* 

 
_How rude! 

I had a first part of my message but it got deleted when I edited, it said something like:

I remember watching a review by this girl who was saying something like "this works really well for me but it may be different for you guys because we're not all the same, and I'm not sure if it's available where you live".  Someone replied saying something like "we're all different? we already know that genius, why don't you just review the product? And why do you not review stuff which is available everywhere to buy?" 

How rude! The owner of the channel replied in a really mature way and said that she reviewed what she liked and only took requests from people who had manners._

 
Good for her!  I wish more of the beauty gurus would stand up to (and for) their subscribers.  Also, good she stood up for HERSELF!

Just a random thought (and my apologies if this comment exists elsewhere), but wouldn't it be in the guru's best interest to review all the products they receive?  If it's not so great, then say it's not so great.  It would maybe be a bit tiresome but could also give their reviews more credibility.
Some people take the reviews on youtube as if they're their god given rights, most of the reviewers aren't paid to give reviews.


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## coachkitten (Aug 9, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_I actually liked Coastal Scents.  Am I weird or something?  I didn't see it from any yt, but from here.  Why does everyone hate it so much?  My shipping was fast and the eyeshadows are nice.  Sorry, off topic, but I like it and am wondering if I am missing something._

 
I don't think people hate their products but there have been issues with the owners getting nasty with people who diss their products.  That is just the jist I get from reading some various threads & seeing some YT videos.  I like coastal scents stuff as well.  Especially their hot pots and brushes.


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## CreamPuffer (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Elusive21* 

 
_Yep YouTube is getting a bit dull for me as well. I agree that we need more tutorials (although I do like the haul videos - stilll want to keep watching those). One thing that irks me is when gurus promote products that they received for free from beautychoice and it's obvious that it's a product they wouldn't have bought themselves if they had to actually pay for it._

 

One word, pixiwoo.  Sam and Nic are incredible, and all their vids are tutorials.  Even when Sam does her favorites vids, she uses the products on herself and turns it into a mini tutorial as well.  They are extremely talented, professional, well spoken, and extremely interesting to watch.


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## lafemmenoir (Aug 9, 2009)

I don't rely on gurus for reviews; however, I do enjoy seeing products.  Since I don't have access to prelaunch insight, I get something i.e. Temptalia and can ration my $$ appropriately.  I feel bad for gurus.  Yes it's their choice to make and mine to watch but you can't win.  In 10 mins you really can't educate one on how to apply a full look, companies want them to advertise and many don't need the products but do so to help the company and followers, then they get hit by either the followers for shilling or the company for not reviewing to their liking.
In addition, location has a big play.  Gurus in N. America have more benefits than those in other countries, i.e. a guru getting a load of press on a foreign paper but a local to that country got a small pic.  Many companies realize they can grow their company just having their name out there and if you get people talking it will boost sales.  People in rural towns can't get things readily so they rely on the gurus' word so if the product is crap...well they are out the money, shipping etc.  and I would think the bulk of subs are young teenagers who for lack of a better word, aren't really informed.  
I wish there was a "right" way, but it's all business and I try not to take it personal.  I do envy the camaraderie many seem to have built with each other because of YouTube.


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## user79 (Aug 9, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_I am not sure why you think it's selfish??? Are they making vids for themselves or for people who watch? 

You're right. I don't have to watch them. And once I see (usually 20-30 seconds in) that yet THE SAME video is being made again, I do skip over the rest of it.  Just exercising my right to say that it bugs me to see reruns of infomercials and I wish there was more variety to the vids because I USED to enjoy watching them. I am not sure why it's selfish to express that preference. ... I think I have a right as a viewer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 
Well yes, it is selfish because a video maker can make any video he or she pleases - we aren't some makeup robots that are making videos purely for the entertainment of others. It's a hobby for most of us, and while we do try to keep the audience in mind, we make videos about things that hold our own interest. So, as a viewer, you really have no "right" to dictate to anyone what a videographer can or can not make a video about. If you don't like what someone is doing, then just don't watch their videos. But, you really have no right to tell them what they should, in your mind, be doing on their own channels. Giving a suggestion is one thing, but the tone of your msg sounds like you're dictating to others what they should be doing, for _your _ sole entertainment.


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ms. kendra* 

 
_Ditto on more tuts and less reviews/hauls or "this months faves." Who cares??_

 
So - just don't watch those videos? I mean what's the point on complaining about it? Just watch something else. There's enough video footage on YT to prob last anyone a lifetime. And even if you might not like those videos, thousands of others do, and watch those types of videos in the hundreds of thousands. That is their preference.

...

I'm really getting this utter sense of entitlement from some responses in this thread. Like, _we're the viewers so you gurus should just do what we want you to do._ Um, no. Also, keep in mind, filming a good quality tutorial, editing it, uploading it, creating a product list, blog entry for it, resizing pics, etc  - honestly, it's a loooong process. Some videos have taken me upwards of 6 hours in total to create. Versus a haul or review video which might take an hour. So it's pretty darn egotistical to just sit there and say "make more tutorials". People have no idea how much time goes into it. 

Also, here's a thought - instead of just coming on Specktra to complain about other online communities, saying what you don't like about it, why not do something to make it better? I'm not sure how many of the responders here make videos themselves on YT, but it's always easier to be negative and complain, rather than getting off your butt, putting some energy and positivity into something and improving something you feel needs improvement.

I'm just sick of these threads - honestly. Like someone said, it seems to have just turned into a "hate on another beauty community thread". Funny, when other communities have created threads as such being negative towards Specktra, the members here were outraged. But now to see everyone doing the same thing here is very disappointing. I always feel like Specktra is a positive place - all this hating and complaining is really not a very positive vibe. There have been some interesting responses that I enjoyed reading but yeah, now it's just turned into a hate thread.


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sunshine16* 

 
_I really don't agree with the "If there's already 4 videos on it don't do another sentiment"
Why should a YT'er have to spend 40-60 minutes watching every other video on the topic they're wanting to talk about just to make sure they don't say something similar to save the viewer 10 minutes of their lives watching something thats already been done.
To be honest i find that sentiment selfish, if you don't want to watch a video thats already been done don't watch it, it's that simple!

Your not paying for their service nor are you being forced to watch it so what they do their videos on is their prerogative._

 
Word x 100000000000


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## frocher (Aug 10, 2009)

.............


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## user79 (Aug 10, 2009)

Well, first of all I read all the threads in Chatter because _I'm a moderator assigned to this area._ I read all threads that have the potential to get ugly - especially when it's a hot topic, I read the thread. And no, I don't just close the thread and move on if it's bringing a general negative vibe to Specktra - that's bad moderating. It's not really a good look for Specktra to have a thread dedicated to ranting on another beauty community online.

The content annoys me mainly because of the general negativity that brings nothing new to the table. What is the point in trying to knock down people? I guess it's always easier to tear things down than to build up. I'm not saying people can't have those opinions, but I think it might be more productive to come up with solutions if there is an issue at hand.

Sure, anyone can complain about anything in this world, but what does it achieve? Nothing. Instead of people just sitting around complaining and ranting on others, maybe it might be more productive to make a positive change. It kind of reminds me about people who don't bother to vote, but then go on to complain about the politics....lol.


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## frocher (Aug 10, 2009)

............


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 10, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_^^^Absolutely, I agree with that statement.  I was just using it as an example as to how you can simply stay away from something if you feel it isn't giving you what you need.  

I, too would be annoyed with the mass quantities of vids and blogs stating how great everything is, but, I just stay away from the ones I don't particularly care for.  Much like the Colour Threads._

 
As I think I have said before...I DO stop watching once I realize it is the same info again. Sometimes it takes a few seconds to find out. Regardless, I think it's an annoying trend, even if I don't watch every single one. Just like I ignore/skip over infomercials, but still find them irritating when I come across them and there's nothing else on tv to watch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And I just wanted some vidmakers to read this and think "ya it's overkill...I need to do something else"....because I actually enjoyed watching vids once upon a time and want to enjoy watching them again.

Interestingly, you don't like rants on the topic yet you read this one and responded. Why? Because you thought your voice needed to be lent to the discussion at hand. (And you had a right to do so). Not everyone loves the trends in videomaking or every video that comes out and we don't have to pretend that we do... whether it's agreeable or not...Why can't we discuss our opinions on the topic without being accused of being negative people or people who can't just "skip over" the stuff we dislike?


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 10, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_Well yes, it is selfish because a video maker can make any video he or she pleases - we aren't some makeup robots that are making videos purely for the entertainment of others. It's a hobby for most of us, and while we do try to keep the audience in mind, we make videos about things that hold our own interest. So, as a viewer, you really have no "right" to dictate to anyone what a videographer can or can not make a video about. If you don't like what someone is doing, then just don't watch their videos. But, you really have no right to tell them what they should, in your mind, be doing on their own channels. Giving a suggestion is one thing, but the tone of your msg sounds like you're dictating to others what they should be doing, for your  sole entertainment._

 
Hi Julia, Let me just clear something up right off the bat: I never had intention of telling people what to review. I just noticed a VERY predominant trend right now that I wanted videomakers to know...I don't like seeing. And I said so. Why is it negative to give feedback about my dislikes as a viewer? That doesn't equal dictating to anyone about what videos should be made....it means there is some content "trends" that have bugged me lately. And I think they are so obvious to most of us out there watching/reading. 

I simply *thought* and I guess I was wrong??, that videomakers do take their audience into account. I guess I will correct my way of thinking and just skip over any videos from here on out about products that I have seen reviewed before. Shame on me for expecting different people to have different/new things to say?

As I said from the OP: I TOTALLY understand how hard it is to make vids and I COMPLETELY appreciate the hard work that goes into it. Furthermore, I know that you and other youtubers give honest reviews and I said from the beginning that I appreciate that...And that what bugged me was the copycat vids that came after. I am sorry you took that as an offense to you personally.


 Quote:

  So - just don't watch those videos? I mean what's the point on complaining about it? Just watch something else. There's enough video footage on YT to prob last anyone a lifetime. And even if you might not like those videos, thousands of others do, and watch those types of videos in the hundreds of thousands. That is their preference.  
 
How do I know that its the same content and review again before I watch it? Its not like the vids usually come with a "plot summary" attached to them. I have definitely scaled back my viewing thanks to the trend and I actually tend to skip all product review vids in general now. 
I am not sure that's something most vid makers want to happen though, after all the hard work they put into making these reviews.

And btw I put "rant" in the subject line so that anyone who has a problem with reading complaints could avoid this thread. I was trying to be considerate. But I do think I have a right to expressing an opinion about what I have watched/seen. Otherwise whats the point of this board? Just to praise every product and critique and vid out there? We are all giving constructive, honest opinions about products/reviews/trends etc. Whether others agree or not, I think that it's kind of "selfish" for anyone to expect us to just "shut up" if we have a negative reaction to something we come across.

 Quote:

  I'm really getting this utter sense of entitlement from some responses in this thread. Like, _we're the viewers so you gurus should just do what we want you to do._ Um, no. Also, keep in mind, filming a good quality tutorial, editing it, uploading it, creating a product list, blog entry for it, resizing pics, etc  - honestly, it's a loooong process. Some videos have taken me upwards of 6 hours in total to create. Versus a haul or review video which might take an hour. So it's pretty darn egotistical to just sit there and say "make more tutorials". People have no idea how much time goes into it.  
 
I think if you read this thread from beginning to end you can see that I and others said repeatedly that we appreciate what goes into vidmaking, that a lot of us appreciate what you do in particular Julia. I can tell you are honest in reviews. You are one person in a very large group of reviewers.  I don't have a sense of entitlement as a viewer. My reply about "expecting videomakers to take the audience into account" etc was merely a sidenote in reply to something someone said. The OP and every post of mine before that said I simply dislike the trend toward repetitiveness.  I don't dictate what anyone does and I don't expect you to do what I say. I can and do often skip videos that I am not interested in. That doesn't mean I am going to pretend that I love redundancy either. And I am going to say when something I watch bugs me. 

I too have sense a sort of "entitlement" from people...an attitide of "well just skip it then"...As if I didn't think of that already? There was a time when I liked watching vids and now I don't because of the redundancy. I was merely saying that...quite simply. Is it wrong to say I wish things were different so I can watch/enjoy vids again? Final note here: I don't know why people take things so personally or take it to heart. I have an opinion that is not unpopular...And it's not about one person's reviews. It's about a trend on blogs and youtube in general.

 Quote:

   Also, here's a thought - instead of just coming on Specktra to complain about other online communities, saying what you don't like about it, why not do something to make it better? I'm not sure how many of the responders here make videos themselves on YT, but it's always easier to be negative and complain, rather than getting off your butt, putting some energy and positivity into something and improving something you feel needs improvement.  
 
I thought that's what I was doing when I posted this thread. That's how I intended it anyway. But people, like you, are making it personal and taking it as an insult instead of taking it as constructive criticism of a TREND (not about you) which is how it was intended.

 Quote:

  I'm just sick of these threads - honestly. Like someone said, it seems to have just turned into a "hate on another beauty community thread". Funny, when other communities have created threads as such being negative towards Specktra, the members here were outraged. But now to see everyone doing the same thing here is very disappointing. I always feel like Specktra is a positive place - all this hating and complaining is really not a very positive vibe. There have been some interesting responses that I enjoyed reading but yeah, now it's just turned into a hate thread.  
 
Honestly, I think you are the one taking it as a personal insult and getting on the defensive, when that's not what this is. And actually that bothers me Julia because  I have a lot of respect for you,  your opinion and what you do in your vids.

I feel like everything I have said is being taken in the negative instead of being taken as a review about something I genuinely hoped I could change. 

Another day, another lesson....No honesty allowed on Specktra. Sorry, I am relatively new here and still learning the ropes.


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## user79 (Aug 10, 2009)

Sorry my comments were not directed exclusively at you, I'm not taking this personally and I appreciate that people are saying they are not referring to my channel, even though I never felt that way in the first place. I never felt myself personally attacked. I'm sorry if I've come across as brusque, that was not my intent. Reading back on my comments, I think I probably did come across as a little harsh - lol! It's sometimes hard to say exactly what I mean.

Don't get me wrong, I have read many of the comments here and agree with some things that have been said. I do agree that sometimes the marketing stuff gets to be too much - but some of it is also very good for the community. There's a lot of great products and such that I would never have tried out or totally loved if it hadn't been to YT and people talking about these small brands that have virtually no money for advertising so resort to "gung ho Youtube product placement" methods. LOL For example Sigma, yeah ok they do seem to be everywhere now, but according to the thread on Specktra, lots of people also seem to be really happy about those brushes so I'd say their incessant campaigning was only a good thing, even if the videos do get repetitive and a bit samey. Customers got cheap but good brushes and are (mostly happy), a small business was able to make some money, it created jobs - everyone's happy. What's the big problem? I'd say that's a pretty good thing, all in all.

But it's also frustrating when you go from being a "viewer" to actually becoming an active member of the community so you see both sides of the coin, and as much as you try to explain "the other side" to people, people just make assumptions and assume that everything is fake, or people have no integrity. (Again, not referring to myself, just in general.)

I just think that the best way to improve something that you feel needs to be improved upon is to take action - if anyone feels so strongly about YT going down the drain so to speak, there's nothing stopping anyone from starting to make their own videos. That is the best way to encourage change, that's all I'm saying.

Anyway, I think you brought up some good points, I just felt before like the discussion was going way downhill and being negative just for the sake of being negative without any suggestions being made.


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 10, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_Don't get me wrong, I have read many of the comments here and agree with some things that have been said. I do agree that sometimes the marketing stuff gets to be too much - but some of it is also very good for the community. There's a lot of great products and such that I would never have tried out or totally loved if it hadn't been to YT and people talking about these small brands that have virtually no money for advertising so resort to "gung ho Youtube product placement" methods._

 
I agree. I even did a separate thread to thank specktra members, youtubers, bloggers etc for introducing me to some amazing products that I never would have known about if not for the great information out there. That's been SO beneficial in so many ways. So I am very grateful and aware of the beneficial effect of reviews/blogs/youtube vids. That's why I come here/other boards and why I watched vids in the first place. But there is a current trend to "overfeaturing" and overdoing the product reviews: of the same products...that is true also IMO. Both things can coexist: the good and the bad of it all. I brought it up in hopes that other people might read it and decide to change things on their channels. 


 Quote:

   LOL For example Sigma, yeah ok they do seem to be everywhere now, but according to the thread on Specktra, lots of people also seem to be really happy about those brushes so I'd say their incessant campaigning was only a good thing, even if the videos do get repetitive and a bit samey. Customers got cheap but good brushes and are (mostly happy), a small business was able to make some money, it created jobs - everyone's happy. What's the big problem? I'd say that's a pretty good thing, all in all.  
 
I am very glad I learned about Sigma brushes. I didn't need to hear about them from 55-65 different vid makers and who knows how many blogs though...But again, that is me. That's *my* response to it and I don't expect anyone to care or change unless THEY want to listen and be aware. Just expressing my own personal opinion...

 Quote:

  But it's also frustrating when you go from being a "viewer" to actually becoming an active member of the community so you see both sides of the coin, and as much as you try to explain "the other side" to people, people just make assumptions and assume that everything is fake, or people have no integrity. (Again, not referring to myself, just in general.)  
 
I didn't assume that ever and I honestly don't think most of the people in this thread did. I am aware that *some* people do make vids to get free stuff...hence the reason for "copycat vids". That annoys me, what can I say. To each her own.

 Quote:

  I just think that the best way to improve something that you feel needs to be improved upon is to take action - if anyone feels so strongly about YT going down the drain so to speak, there's nothing stopping anyone from starting to make their own videos. That is the best way to encourage change, that's all I'm saying.  
 
I have to disagree with you...I am somewhat of a novice and I don't watch vids by novices. I don't get anything out of that. I like to watch people who know what they are doing, and have some wisdom to impart. I also don't have good camera equipment and I know very little about doing that anyway. Also, I am very uncomfortable around a camera....in general. Some of us aren't meant to be in front of the camera, or can't do it naturally.  One more videomaker in a sea of others isn't going to make much of a difference either. I posted the opinion here because I know a lot of YT videomakers would read this and perhaps at least consider what I was saying/take it to heart. That's how I hoped to make a difference. Instead it seems like it's being taken as a "jab" or a personal attack against videomakers. 

 Quote:

  Anyway, I think you brought up some good points, I just felt before like the discussion was going way downhill and being negative just for the sake of being negative without any suggestions being made.  
 
I think a lot of good suggestions were made....but yes, there are a lot of people who are upset at various things and probably used this thread as a way to vent about certain aspects/trends. And I honestly didn't see any of it as stuff that should be taken personally or taken as an insult. It's just different perspectives and POVs....

JMO for what it's worth.


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## SakurasamaLover (Aug 10, 2009)

Wow seriously this is going in a strange place and reminds me that people are more and more selfish as the years/generations pass (medias are doing their job well it seems).  These people are doing it out of their time, you don't pay them and if you don't like what you see don't look at it.  There's enough stuff out there for you to get new reviews and stuff.  If you already seen something and don't wanna see it again - skip it.  But no.. ME MYSELF and I is more important, so I can say that people getting free stuff sucks (even if the people saying that would shit themselves to get free stuff too) and they don't wanna just use their own judgment on those thing, even if they already did obviously, with the complaining post they just made.
Oh and sorry but if you saw all the reviews and hauls video on youtube and you are bored.. maybe get a life ?


Yay one more point for humanity.

Just my 2 cents 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





The point is: someone lost your thrust cause he seems just like a little copycat ? Well don't listen to him/her anymore !?!?!?

Welcome to reality : some people rocks some sucks.
/rant over


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 10, 2009)

^^ Ya that is a very incorrect and negative summary of what my intentions and posts were about, and your interpretation was sincerely off the mark. But if that's how you want to read/see it, so be it. Perception vs. intention. We all have a right to our own POV. It makes the world go round. If you don't want to see that, then I suggest not reading message boards.


 Quote:

  The point is: someone lost your thrust cause he seems just like a little copycat ? Well don't listen to him/her anymore !?!?!?

Welcome to reality : some people rocks some sucks.  
 
Whoa really? I had no idea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you read my posts at all (big assumption on my part), I am well aware that its possible to skip reviews/videos etc and I have exercised that ability a lot lately. But I will let you go back and read at your leisure.... Because frankly I am not sure you're even paying attention to this post either.

 Quote:

   Oh and sorry but if you saw all the reviews and hauls video on youtube and you are bored.. *maybe get a life* ?  
 
What irony.You entered a thread that said "rant" in the title  to complain about people complaining. Why didn't you do as you're advising me....skip this thread if complainers bother you so? You are also here  insulting me because i have the audacity to have an opinion unlike your own, twisting my words and intentions, and telling people what they have a right to post about...and being quite unkind and rude in doing so. Perhaps you should listen to your own advice and stop preaching to others.

BTW "me myself and I" have a right to post an opinion/thought (positive or negative) as much as you/yourself and the better-than-thou, judgmental attitude you expressed in here. 

Just my two cents.


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## lara (Aug 10, 2009)

This has been an interesting and insightful thread, so let's refrain from descending into the internet version of pulling each other's piggytails.


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## CellyCell (Aug 10, 2009)

I'm not a fan of Youtube as I once was but I don't think it's fair to hate on them for getting people to subscribe to their stuff and placing contest or whatever... oh em gee, they're giving away free stuff in place of your subscription. What a bunch of horrible assh*les. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




But I do agree a lot is redundant...
I dunno how folks trust/or hype the opinion of very few w/out doing a bit more research. Thank Jebus for forums like MUA.

I hella LOL'd at the whole "another I hate YT thread" comment.


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## sunshine16 (Aug 10, 2009)

Honestly, i would understand people being annoyed if you received a magazine which repeated itself constantly.
You payed for a product and therefore you have a right to expect a certain quality of articles etc.

However considering youtube is *free* i don't feel like anyone owes anyone anything. It's the same as when someone posts a thread asking a question and they wont get replies within 24 hours and they'll post again saying "ANYONE?! NOONE CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION?!"
There may be someone reading your question with a pHd on the topic who simply doesn't want to answer and that is their right. They do not owe you an answer just because they have the information. Same as a guru doesn't owe anyone a tutorial because they have the skills and equipment to do so. 

I guess what i'm trying to say is, the internet is a very convenient resource for many different things however if the information you need/want is not available then you need to search elsewhere.
For example LeeLeeBell expressed disappointment at lack of tutorials on youtube, as an alternative she could buy a makeup book or take a class at a makeup counter or even play around herself (this is how many gurus learnt to start with anyway) because at the end of the day, it's not a guru's responsibilty to teach you how to apply makeup if they'd rather show you what they bought that day.

Just sayin'...


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## rbella (Aug 10, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_*Interestingly, you don't like rants on the topic yet you read this one and responded.* Why? Because you thought your voice needed to be lent to the discussion at hand. (And you had a right to do so). Not everyone loves the trends in videomaking or every video that comes out and we don't have to pretend that we do... whether it's agreeable or not...Why can't we discuss our opinions on the topic without being accused of being negative people or people who can't just "skip over" the stuff we dislike?_

 
Thank you for deciding this for me, however, I never said I don't like "rants" on the topic.  I said: I can see how members would be annoyed with constant "hyping" of products, but just move on.  It's a free friggin' world and the information you get on the internet, for the most part, is free.  For God's sake, are we going to bitch and complain about everything on the internet?  These people are providing a service to you and also doing something they are passionate about.  Who cares if it doesn't meet your criteria of perfection?  

Also, to be honest, you seem to enjoy the debating of this topic, which is fine, but when doing so, don't assume what others are feeling/thinking.  When I have a problem with "rants on this topic", trust me, I will have no problem letting you know.  If you are unable to respond without diagnosing my words and looking for hidden meanings, that is your issue, but please do not insert your "incorrect observations" of me. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lara* 

 
_This has been an interesting and insightful thread, so let's refrain from descending into the internet version of pulling each other's piggytails._

 

**Pulls on Lara's Piggy Tails**


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## rbella (Aug 10, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_
BTW "me myself and I" have a right to post an opinion/thought (positive or negative) as much as you/yourself and the better-than-thou, judgmental attitude you expressed in here. 

Just my two cents._

 
And, the bloggers and youtubers have the right to post what the heck they want to on their OWN SITES.  Interesting.


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 10, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_And, the bloggers and youtubers have the right to post what the heck they want to on their OWN SITES.  Interesting._

 
Yes they do as I said before in my posts
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not dictating, just saying my preference for what I watch.


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 10, 2009)

I will just say that post was in reply to someone else's direct comments, not to you rbella. That said, I have expressed multiple times (even in this thread) how much I appreciate the hard work and MOST videos. I am not sure why you have skipped over those comments and points in this very thread, and decided that all I have done is complained?? I don't think that's fair and I don't accept that criticism. That is not true about me. I was talking about one trend that I don't like viewing and I have a right to post my thoughts on that one trend.
I can also talk about what I love in youtube vids and i have done that constantly too. PS where did I assume what people were feeling and thinking??   I talked about my feelings and then saw that _in this thread_ a lot of people seemed to agree.

I don't pretend to tell people what to review or what to do. I am saying why I don't enjoy product reviews anymore and why i am not watching them at the moment. I just hoped that the trend could change. I truly don't see why some are so "taken aback" by me expressing an opinion. No one has to agree and no one has to change anything.  And it's as easy to ignore my opinions here as it is to tell me to "skip" watching videos (which I have done).


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Thank you for deciding this for me, however, I never said I don't like "rants" on the topic.  I said: I can see how members would be annoyed with constant "hyping" of products, but just move on.  It's a free friggin' world and the information you get on the internet, for the most part, is free.  For God's sake, are we going to bitch and complain about everything on the internet?  These people are providing a service to you and also doing something they are passionate about.  Who cares if it doesn't meet your criteria of perfection?  

Also, to be honest, you seem to enjoy the debating of this topic, which is fine, but when doing so, don't assume what others are feeling/thinking.  When I have a problem with "rants on this topic", trust me, I will have no problem letting you know.  If you are unable to respond without diagnosing my words and looking for hidden meanings, that is your issue, but please do not insert your "incorrect observations" of me. 




**Pulls on Lara's Piggy Tails**_


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## frocher (Aug 10, 2009)

.......


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## ForgetRegret (Aug 10, 2009)




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## frocher (Aug 10, 2009)

...........


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## ForgetRegret (Aug 10, 2009)

^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sure thing, I've got a nice big tub.... *shares*


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## MakeUpGeek (Aug 10, 2009)

I rarely post on specktra, but this thread has reassured me I'm not alone in my boredom, and loss of respect for youtube "guru's".

I left youtube because of it, and I really wish people would just unsubscribe from these people to give them a wake up call.

Ranting about it here makes us feel better, yeah - but actually making a stand and pressing unsubscribe would create change.

Julia - I would honestly prefer guru's to use popular products more than once to make different looks. I can't afford to buy everything you guys are sent free, which makes the tutorials kinda redundant. Who can afford it? You are really talented - some of the looks you have done are fantastic, so don't get offended by people being honest on their feelings here. People are entitled to their opinions, and no-one has named names or anything so they are being mature about it.

I originally started watching youtube for "real people", and honest reviews. Sadly that is gone now. Youtube is full of narcissistic personalities who need not only follownig on youtube, but now - blogs, twitter, god knows what. It's about them, not the viewers at all. How many of them actually reply to followers who aren't other gurus on twitter? Most don't...so it's an ego stroke.

The only guru's I really watch now are Pixiwoo, Kandeejohnson and sometimes petrilude (I don't think he is snotty at all either). Real makeup artists who aren't all about what they got free this week. For reviews I read MUA, but to be honest - I mainly stick with my old fav's - because of all those fake reviews my skin went from being really clear to terrible, and I've only just started to get it back to normal. 

THAT is what I have issue with - they lie about the quality of products, I buy them and bam - my skin pays the price. I doubt I'm alone in that.


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## Frosting (Aug 10, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MakeUpGeek* 

 
_THAT is what I have issue with - they lie about the quality of products, I buy them and bam - my skin pays the price. I doubt I'm alone in that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is what I don't get. Why would you buy a product based on what some random person on YT says about it? Or even 10 people? Blaming someone else for a choice you made, buying a product, is abandoning responsibility for yourself. No one made you buy it. No one prevented you from further informing yourself on the product. You made a choice and it didn't work out. If anyone beside yourself is to blame it's the product manufacturer, if in fact it is an inferior quality product and not just that you happen to have a sensitivity to it, but definitely not a reviewer.

Also, if your skin was really clear, why did you start using all these products? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

Also, I never would have guessed that people would be so susceptible to the influence of others. You shouldn't let other people's opinions have so much power over you and what you do with your money. Think for yourself!


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## ms. kendra (Aug 10, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *chocolategoddes* 

 
_I love how this is turning into a "What I Hate About YT" thread. lol


OMG! That's hilarious!!!
-hello, Sister Mary, how are you?
-Oh, hello my child. You look beautiful today. What are you wearing on your eyes?
-The eyeshadow is called "Baddest Bitch" and I used "Skanky Ho Bitch" liner to smoke it out.
-*gasp* Lord have MERCYYYY!

lmao irl


I especially hate it when the haul videos are just basically "Hey, look what I bought". At least, tell me about the product and what made you buy it.
I'll only watch a haul video if it's by a youtuber I trust and whose makeup I admire.


Yeah, he's addressed it a lot. You can tell he's just really annoyed by it all. I never got a snotty, arrogant vibe from him. He's a really cool guy, actually._

 
LOL @ the church script! That would be a mess!

I love Josh too, and I can also tell it's getting to him.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_

So - just don't watch those videos? I mean what's the point on complaining about it? Just watch something else. There's enough video footage on YT to prob last anyone a lifetime. And even if you might not like those videos, thousands of others do, and watch those types of videos in the hundreds of thousands. That is their preference.

...

I'm really getting this utter sense of entitlement from some responses in this thread. Like, we're the viewers so you gurus should just do what we want you to do. Um, no. Also, keep in mind, filming a good quality tutorial, editing it, uploading it, creating a product list, blog entry for it, resizing pics, etc  - honestly, it's a loooong process. Some videos have taken me upwards of 6 hours in total to create. Versus a haul or review video which might take an hour. So it's pretty darn egotistical to just sit there and say "make more tutorials". People have no idea how much time goes into it. 

Also, here's a thought - instead of just coming on Specktra to complain about other online communities, saying what you don't like about it, why not do something to make it better? I'm not sure how many of the responders here make videos themselves on YT, but it's always easier to be negative and complain, rather than getting off your butt, putting some energy and positivity into something and improving something you feel needs improvement.

I'm just sick of these threads - honestly. Like someone said, it seems to have just turned into a "hate on another beauty community thread". Funny, when other communities have created threads as such being negative towards Specktra, the members here were outraged. But now to see everyone doing the same thing here is very disappointing. I always feel like Specktra is a positive place - all this hating and complaining is really not a very positive vibe. There have been some interesting responses that I enjoyed reading but yeah, now it's just turned into a hate thread.




Word x 100000000000_

 
Umm, I believe I said in a prior post that I don't watch the videos I'm not interested in. I was just agreeing with someone else's post. You're really sensitive about this. I have actually been agreeing with many of your posts in this thread.


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## rbella (Aug 10, 2009)

Is Josh ~ Petrilude?  I've never seen him before??  BTW, where is Coastal Scents being rude to people?  Here?  I'm so out of the loop.  I just bought their eye palette and thought it was pretty.

There is a non-biased makeup blogger I love, her link is The Makeup Blogger  She buys all the things she reviews.  She doesn't do tuts, but her site is honest and interesting.  She is also a professional makeup artist.

Also, if you are on twitter and a fan of Wistella's, (fatstar on twitter), she'll answer makeup questions.  She does amazing makeup and she is beautiful!!


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## TISH1124 (Aug 10, 2009)

^^^ Oh I love her too!!! She is one of the few I am subscribed too


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## spacegirl2007 (Aug 11, 2009)

i for one am pretty happy the FTC has decided to regulate and monitor "freebies" for bloggers. people will be required by law to disclose when they have received products for free, or are being compensated for talking about a certain product, company, etc. also people receiving freebies will have to report their value as income, which is how it should be. obv it will only apply to those in the US but i think (hope) it will make a difference.


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## PrincessPinkcat (Aug 11, 2009)

Many of the guru's on YouTube state that they reserve the right not to feature a product or do a review on a product that they don't like, and I respect that.  Several will go so far as to mail a product back to the company at their own expense if they don't like it.   So if you see hype that a product is good, chances are it probably is... many wouldn't be bothered making a review if it wasn't.

Videos take a long time to make from filming, to editing, to uploading.  Why would a guru want to take hours getting a video together about a product they didn't like?  And quite frankly there are some really bad products out there...  And what would happen if guru's did make countless reviews about products they hate?  Companies would be hard hit, viewers would complain that the guru's were whinning, and you would have people bashing the Guru's for saying something negative about a product that they love.

Personally, I think it's better not to review a product you don't like. I think YouTube would be a very boring place and negative place if there were tons of videos describing products Guru's don't like.  Viewers would be questioning what happened to their favorite Guru's positive attitudes.

That being said, I do agree that if a Guru does a favorable review on a product, they should continue to use that product in a few tutorials, etc.  I have noticed in a couple of cases where a Guru gave a product a very favorable review and then never, ever used the product on their channel again.  If they loved it so much, they should be wanting to use it  again and again instead of banishing it to the bottom of their makeup drawer.


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## MakeUpGeek (Aug 11, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Frosting* 

 
_This is what I don't get. Why would you buy a product based on what some random person on YT says about it? Or even 10 people? Blaming someone else for a choice you made, buying a product, is abandoning responsibility for yourself. No one made you buy it. No one prevented you from further informing yourself on the product. You made a choice and it didn't work out. If anyone beside yourself is to blame it's the product manufacturer, if in fact it is an inferior quality product and not just that you happen to have a sensitivity to it, but definitely not a reviewer.

Also, if your skin was really clear, why did you start using all these products? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

Also, I never would have guessed that people would be so susceptible to the influence of others. You shouldn't let other people's opinions have so much power over you and what you do with your money. Think for yourself!_

 
If this was not happening with multiple people - being conned into purchasing items, then the whole issue would not exist. Companies would not throw products at youtubers if they didn't convince people to buy now, would they? People ARE susceptible. Advertising would not exist if they weren't.

I agree - I should have left well alone, but I trusted this people - I was not alone in that.


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## frocher (Aug 11, 2009)

..............


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 11, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *frocher* 

 
_When you put a video up on youtube, it does take a long time to produce, and it is for free, but it is still a product.  And it is placed on display for the public consumption.  So like any product it is going to face some public scrutiny, and sometimes, public review._

 
Precisely. TV shows are as free to the _general public_ (including you and me) as youtube vids are, and people critique those day in and day out...some even do it for a living. I think most people agree that it's perfectly ok to discuss the trends on tv shows --likes and dislikes. Even if you're not watching every single episode of every reality show, you might watch enough to know what aspects of reality shows you like or dislike. That's what I was trying to say in my posts. Even if I don't watch every single product review, I see enough to know that there's a "trend" toward hyping certain products that have been reviewed a dozen times already, without sending out new info...and that's not something I personally like watching. If it doesn't bother *you*, great I have no problem with that. Just don't tell me what to post about and don't tell me I have no right to critique a trend I have seen. I have as much right to express an opinion here as anyone else does. For those who don't want to read critiques or hear them, I suggest staying away from topics with the word "Rant" in the title...That should be just as easy to do as telling me/others what to do with _*our *_time/what to post and what to watch (i.e. to "skip" review vids--which don't come with plot summaries like tv shows do by the way
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


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## User27 (Aug 11, 2009)

****


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## MiCHiE (Aug 12, 2009)

YT got old and OTT when the reviews became, "OMG you HAVE to get this!". Many of the viewers were looking to learn to do makeup and subscribed for tips. It was cool when techniques were showcased and users gave insight to uses of certain products, brushes, etc....Then came the "reviews" for products that no one other than MUAs would ever need to use/own. It's just obvious that there are other motives besides each one teaching one or doing it for fun or passion.


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## lafemmenoir (Aug 12, 2009)

Meechie you are BANG on but when you allude to it, you get pounced.  People react the same way the tell viewers, "don't watch" or "get a life" but these same ones are obviously dedicating themselves to YouTube.  If it's about helping someone learn how to look and feel better that's one thing, if you want to showcase your skills that's another, but if you are looking to build recognition, or YouTube is your career, all well and good but honestly it's gotten to the point you have to like them all or if you respectfull express a point of view as I would if I stated "Gee, America's Next Top Model isn't the same to me."  Why is it YouTube has become a we vs they with the gurus vs subscribers?  Aren't we all interested in beauty, products, and cosmetics in general?  I respect the time and courage some put into it some are taking it to a whole other level and to say it's not "auctioning themselves" in an implied manner "join this, rate this, enter this, follow this, add my OTHER channel" and then tell subbies to get a life is almost hypocritical.  Sorry for the length and it's not meant to be a rant, I just wish we could agree to have different opinions and still be respected.  I am not liking this or how I respond to it, I apologize to anyone who takes offence.  Just frustrating ....


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## Shimmer (Aug 12, 2009)

Now, when people mention doing youtube tutorials/videos etc. to me, I'm just going to refer back to this thread. Such a PITA, way too much headache and drama, and I don't have 6 or 7 hours to dedicate to doing tutorials/looks/whatever.


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## User27 (Aug 12, 2009)

****


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## TISH1124 (Aug 12, 2009)

I'm guess I'm done reading this thread....some of ya'll got the gift of way too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








I agree Good Points have been made on both sides


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## staceb1990 (Aug 12, 2009)

*Re: Is it just me, or is youtube getting a little tiresome?*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Elusive21* 

 
_Yep YouTube is getting a bit dull for me as well. I agree that we need more tutorials (although I do like the haul videos - stilll want to keep watching those). One thing that irks me is when gurus promote products that they received for free from beautychoice and it's obvious that it's a product they wouldn't have bought themselves if they had to actually pay for it._

 
That's why I really like lollipop26, she's very upfront about things she receives for free, and gives great and honest reviews.


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## MakeUpGeek (Aug 13, 2009)

yeah i love lollipop26 - she always seems to make time for her viewers too, and she is modest. feels like watching a really good girlie friend.


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## user79 (Aug 13, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Now, when people mention doing youtube tutorials/videos etc. to me, I'm just going to refer back to this thread. Such a PITA, way too much headache and drama, and I don't have 6 or 7 hours to dedicate to doing tutorials/looks/whatever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
That is certainly your prerogative but YT has a lot to offer - it's overall an extremely positive and encouraging place, full of creative individuals, a thriving community full of energetic people - viewers and videographers included. The hateful/drama BS is dwarfed by the overwhelming positivity that is present. The BS and drama is only a small part of the entire experience, but then, no community is perfect, and all have room for improvement.

And - while some may find it a waste of time to dedicate time to making videos - others find it a rewarding experience. It's not like I sit down for 7 hours at a time slaving over each video. Some take an hour to make tops. But usually a video will take several days to complete, and I like to invest a couple hours here and there whenever I have some spare time. I personally find this more enjoyable than watching TV, or going shopping, surfing online, or just chatting on the phone. So, it's really up to each person what they choose to do in their free time, and doesn't deserve the implied ridicule, especially when it is helping out other people. Picture tutorials such as the ones posted on here Specktra, which I think everyone is also extremely thankful for, have a similar time investment. Just sayin'....


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## Shimmer (Aug 13, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_That is certainly your prerogative but YT has a lot to offer - it's overall an extremely positive and encouraging place, full of creative individuals, a thriving community full of energetic people - viewers and videographers included. The hateful/drama BS is dwarfed by the overwhelming positivity that is present. The BS and drama is only a small part of the entire experience, but then, no community is perfect, and all have room for improvement._

 
The overwhelming negativity is enough to turn me off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The return on my investment (time, technology, creativity, etc.) isn't enough to override the headache. Some find it fulfilling, that's cool. I'm simply not one of those people.
 Quote:

  And - while some may find it a waste of time to dedicate time to making videos - others find it a rewarding experience. It's not like I sit down for 7 hours at a time slaving over each video. Some take an hour to make tops. But usually a video will take several days to complete, and I like to invest a couple hours here and there whenever I have some spare time. I personally find this more enjoyable than watching TV, or going shopping, surfing online, or just chatting on the phone. So, it's really up to each person what they choose to do in their free time, and doesn't deserve the implied ridicule, especially when it is helping out other people. Picture tutorials such as the ones posted on here Specktra, which I think everyone is also extremely thankful for, have a similar time investment. Just sayin'....  
 
I didn't imply ridicule at all, nor did I insult anyone who has the time or inclination.  I also didn't say it was a waste of time. 
You said it was a 6 or 7 hour process to make a video from conception to completion (as I understood you, at least) and I stated that I simply don't ahve that kind of time to invest.  Free time is something I don't get to enjoy very often, and the free time I do have, I choose to use it with my kids, my activities, or my household.  It's no slight on others who do differently, but it is an observation of why I don't participate in an activity I've been asked about numerous times.


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## User27 (Aug 13, 2009)

****


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## NernersHuman (Aug 13, 2009)

I have also never had issue with your videos, Julia.  I love your enthusiasm and warmth and I've learned a great deal from watching your videos.

I think really what my issue is with a lot of the gurus is that so many started out like you-more focused on teaching and creativity, with the occasional review thrown in if they happened to find something they really really liked.  But once the cosmetics companies starting tossing out free product, so many seemed to lose a bit of integrity because they were so bedazzled by all the swag.  People that used to post nothing but tutorials (which I LOVE) were now posting nothing but reviews/hauls, one after the other.  The fact that so many were endorsing a site that I know for a fact has been a nightmare for dozens of consumers didn't really sit right with me either. 

I realize when you get into this arena you are going to get free product, and it becomes a very slippery slope for some. Some, like yourself, hang on to their objectivity. These are the people I keep watching.  Sadly though, it seems that more will endorse absolutely anything that gets delivered to their door, so long as its free and keeps on coming.  These are the ones I no longer subscribe to.


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## Willa (Aug 13, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_Your channel was never the issue of this thread and I know you stand by what you do. I honestly never had a problem with my sister viewing your videos but there are some major changes that Youtube needs to address but it has nothing to do with your videos. Both the girls here are your fans and luckily the baby in the picture is her friends' and not hers because I'd have to kick her behind. 







A month or two back they were looking up makeup tutorials and even though the girl isn't a guru, it came up in the listing that she did tutorials. I said okay, my sister wants to check her out. I know I'll catch hate for this but I'm getting used to it as of this point. I've seen her videos solo now and was fine with it as an adult but the 15 year old in that picture has no business watching her videos. I only have my sisters when my mom gets sick or is exhausted but I do care what they watch...her friend lent her movie called Thirteen, I confiscated it due to the theme, she wanted her naval pierced I told her to wait until she was older and I took away her Buckcherry cd because of a song called Crazy Bitch. 






This is why I monitor my sister and her friends if they're over, not because of you. I let her watch your video about your newspaper article and read the translation on your Twitter and you're not this person here nor the people the original topic was about. That vid especially the last 10 seconds is why I have to pre screen what she sees and I'd advise anyone in my shoes to as well if kids are present. Notes in the sidebar "this bitch doesn't know what she's doing" and an end message that my sister will not see hopefully and Youtube doesn't have ratings so I have to. It also got too darn expensive buying her every darn product that people kept hyping that she saw failure with. She's a normal teen and with that comes her shopping and my shopping and luckily my other sister is less like us....still I've shopped for her as well. It adds up when it's coming out of my pocket and she hasn't gotten the results she was hoping for.

I'm sorry if my posts are too long winded for some but I'll try to get whatever higher being to remove my ADHD so I can fit the mold here better. I really hope Specktra doesn't discourage free speech because there were a few I actually admired the views of...there's also a few I'm seeing the true colors of as well. Good luck Julia and hope this let you know some of the flaws and again congratulations on the news._

 
I'm just wondering, where is this all going?
Because I dont understand the pics? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I have too much difficulty to follow when a post is too long (ADD), so, maybe it's just me but I got lost in the last pages


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## User27 (Aug 14, 2009)

****


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## staceb1990 (Aug 14, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_ 





This is why I monitor my sister and her friends if they're over, not because of you. I let her watch your video about your newspaper article and read the translation on your Twitter and you're not this person here nor the people the original topic was about. That vid especially the last 10 seconds is why I have to pre screen what she sees and I'd advise anyone in my shoes to as well if kids are present. Notes in the sidebar "this bitch doesn't know what she's doing" and an end message that my sister will not see hopefully and Youtube doesn't have ratings so I have to. It also got too darn expensive buying her every darn product that people kept hyping that she saw failure with. She's a normal teen and with that comes her shopping and my shopping and luckily my other sister is less like us....still I've shopped for her as well. It adds up when it's coming out of my pocket and she hasn't gotten the results she was hoping for.

I'm sorry if my posts are too long winded for some but I'll try to get whatever higher being to remove my ADHD so I can fit the mold here better. I really hope Specktra doesn't discourage free speech because there were a few I actually admired the views of...there's also a few I'm seeing the true colors of as well. Good luck Julia and hope this let you know some of the flaws and again congratulations on the news._

 
jpmetz is hysterical though...


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## User27 (Aug 14, 2009)

****


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## chocolategoddes (Aug 14, 2009)

Wow... this thread... I'm totally lost.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_It's not that I personally don't find her comical because if you saw the Angela video, you would have laughed too though I hope it was false about the reason it was there but kids need to be kids. _

 
Yeah, it was fake. 

I don't see how jpmetz compares to MissChievous or other big makeup gurus. Jpmetz already has a set audience and her fans watch her for her comedy, not her actual makeup tips, reviews, and tutorials.


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## User27 (Aug 14, 2009)

****


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## JULIA (Aug 15, 2009)

*The audience should not rely 100% on a guru's review of a product.* I don't understand how people justify leaving hateful comments on a guru's video simply because they were unsatisfied with a product or it simply didn't work for them. First off, there's a really great chance you're of a different complexion and skin-tone so...Duh, it probably won't do anything for you. I'm absolutely astounded that people have all these wonderful resources available to them (MUA, Specktra, etc) and yet they still manage to be irresponsible consumers. You should be doing everything you can to learn about the item you're interested in buying, instead of depending on a single review. It is not the guru's fault you eat up everything you're fed; educate yourself a little more and you'll find yourself making more worthy purchases.


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## MakeUpGeek (Aug 15, 2009)

We are not talking about single reviews here though, if you read the thread. The point is we get bombarded with product reviews from loads of "guru's" all with different types of skin / lifestyle - all singing praises about this new amazing product.

Hateful comments left on channels is not my style personally, so I agree on that. My response to someone not telling the entire truth about products, or not having properly reviewed (ie fafinette raving about everyday minerals, and then after extended use discovering it broke her out. She was not the only guru who switched on that product later on either) If a person is going to review a product...they need to give it a proper test drive before recommending it to everyone.



I am kinda done on this subject because it will go around and around, so no more input from me you'll be glad to hear. My advice to those disgruntled about it all is simply to do what I did - unsubscribe from people who you no longer trust.

I have very few people I watch now, but all are quality, and that is most important to me.


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## JULIA (Aug 15, 2009)

It could be a thousand people reviewing the same product, idc. You should still _inform yourself_.


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## MakeUpGeek (Aug 15, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *JULIA* 

 
_It could be a thousand people reviewing the same product, idc. You should still inform yourself._

 
That statement makes no sense.


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## TISH1124 (Aug 15, 2009)

Actually it does make sense...she stated basically it does not matter if a 1,000 mu bloggers/ youtubers review the same exact product ...as consumers we still need to review them for ourselves so we can make informed decisions for ourselves


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 15, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *JULIA* 

 
_It could be a thousand people reviewing the same product, idc. You should still inform yourself._

 
How do you inform yourself about a product that isn't available except online (and given away as freebies to "gurus" and bloggers)? OR what if you live overseas, or in a small town with no Sephora, Ulta, Macys or Nordstroms--how do you swatch items? Answer: You can't...and "informing yourself" means reading reviews online. Eventually the hype wears some people down, gets them/us curious and makes us want to see what the hype is about. Some of us buy stuff based on reading 15-20 reviews that said the same thing.

And it's not "ignorant" and "misinformed" people who fall for it either...It's a whole lot of very intelligent customers and skeptical people too. Try and label us/them as stupid, but that doesn't change the fact that people are "overhyping" products, redundantly (and sometimes simply because they have been paid or sent things for free).
Did we have a choice whether to buy? Yes. No one has denied that. This thread isn't about whether we were "forced" to buy something, it's about asking for people not to be redundant by hyping things that have already been reviewed half a dozen or a dozen times before. 

Whoever you think is "at fault" for purchasing things isn't the issue here....there are just some of us who are sick of the redundant product reviews and we are expressing that opinion here. Most of us DO and HAVE skipped over them...because of the redundancy and overhyping. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the topic and why we dislike this new "trend". 

As for haters and people who leave nasty/rude comments on youtube...that's not me and I think most of us in this thread have tried to remain civil and polite and wouldn't reduce ourselves to such pettiness.


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## TISH1124 (Aug 15, 2009)

^ I agree with a most of your points and 100% understand what you are saying...Honestly I used to be a hype buyer too...I was drawn in by the ohhhh and ahhhhh, this is a must have yada crap....But I have simply learned that if I can't see it, try it or swatch it for myself I just don't buy it.  That way the only person to blame for the purchase is myself. I also buy from places that I know if it does not work out...I can return it....Nordstroms, Sephora, MAC etc have excellent return policies....hell even Walmart /Target for that matter


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## JULIA (Aug 16, 2009)

Leelee, I was actually responding to MakeUpGeek's comment because she made it seem that it was a guru's fault the product she bought didn't work for her...Everything I said was related to people who do the same thing.


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## frocher (Aug 16, 2009)

.............


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## MAC_Whore (Aug 17, 2009)

Wow...8 pages already!  lol  I haven't yet expressed my viewpoint on this and thought I would do so now, for what it's worth.  I may not make any friends on this one, but I have to keep it real.  

I have been a member/advisor/mod who has been with Specktra for 4.5 years now.  I have enjoyed being here, because it is a forum-based site.  That said we do have a blog and I do contribute to it.  

As far as the products I review, I can honestly say that withing the 4.5 years I have been here, I have received samples on 12 occasions.  That's it.  Of those, 2 were just so bad that I refused to write them up.  I guess I could have posted a bash review, but I just don't care to do that.  I like to focus on and feature products that work.  So that is why most of my review/feature posts are positive.  That said, when the product does have some flaws, I will bring them up.

Each day, we  (Specktra) are sent a good amount of emails on new items asking us to try and/or feature them.  We are extrememly picky about what we respond to.  I guess we could pimp ourselves out for product, but that isn't what the spirit of this site is about.   Quite frankly, we like to be in control of what we say.  

Another big reason for the positivity in my reviews is that I purchase the items I review/feature myself.  It's my cash.  It makes no sense for me to go dump $20 on an eye shadow I hate.  Sorry guys, I love you, but I gotta think of me on this one. lol  That said, I still try to be inclusive of other skin types and tones by mentioning how I think it would perform on others or suggest substitute items that might be better.

At Specktra, we do feature a lot of MAC and are generally happy with it, but that should come as no surprise as we are generally MAC fans on this site.  There are other brands that we like to feature as we are consistently pleased with their overall line: i.e. Stila, Anastasia and for me recently, MUFE and NARS.  If you've read my reviews, when there are bad points (MAC or not), I do mention them.  Not to forget that there have been some, IMO, total dud MAC items, i.e. Shimmer Souffles, Glitz gloss, and pro longwear that I have had no issue calling out.  

Even with the items I might originally love or hate, I do occasionally change my mind as my skills, needs and tastes have changed.  Also, as I said, we are a very MAC-heavy site, but I do like to feature other brands as we never want to shut ourselves off from the vast world of cosmetic possiblities out there. 

There are some talented bloggers/you tubers out there who I really admire.  Then there are some who give terrible advice and/or shill products shamelessly.  

I'll admit that I don't watch a lot of you tube tuts, but I really enjoy MissChievious, Makeup Geek and Risa (sonrisa).  They are really skilled.  I'm sure there are others equally talented out there too, I just haven't had the opportunity to view their vids. 

On the note of what bothers me about certain blogs is when they simply cut and paste Specktra items or come shopping for content on Specktra.  They just pick away at the contributions of our members like vultures.  I do realize that the internet/blog community is all about sharing, but those blatantly steal and/or do not source are pretty scummy, IMO.  One particular blog is so apparent in the fact that they have clearly picked over Specktra to garner info on collections to cobble together their own "MAC resource" areas that I have to laugh.  Gee, thanks for the "hard work".  Cut and paste doesn't take much.   Then the blogger feigns a gracious thank you to her readers who appreciate her hard work.  Saying it's all for them.  BS, it's for monetary gain on your part.

Another blogging trend I dislike is the linking to Gilt Group, Haute Look and other sites that give the "referrer"/blogger compensation when individuals they refer sign up and buy something.  A certain site pimps their members with endless posts about "great deals"/sales from those sites.  Initially they were not even telling the readers that they (the blogger/referrer) were getting kick-backs.  Now they say it is a referral link, but don't explain what that means.   Oh and it's rather funny that in those referral link/sale posts the blogger mentions all the great items they already bought from that sale.  Really?  The truth is that they are all the great items that her readers bought for her by the referral kick backs she "earned".  Shady.   I guess some people will do anything for the money.  

I have caught a well-known blog stealing my info, flat out.  I know this as I had suspected them stealing info and set a couple of traps where I posted collection info with a few slight errors initially.  This site then reposted my info (including my telltale, intentional misinformation) and listed the source as "internal".   Repeatedly.  Really?  They also do everything they can to not source or source as cryptically as possible.  I kindly return the favour and source them as cryptically as possible.  That nasty site aside, there are a ton of great blogs out there that I truly enjoy.

What can I say?  I'm a fan of people playing fair, behaving ethically and doing it for the love, not the cash.

Oh, and if you have made it to the end of this long-ass post, good on ya for your wicked ability to focus and the stamina of your attention span!


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## LMD84 (Aug 17, 2009)

great points mac whore.

and thanks for reminding me about the crappy glitz glosses! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 looks so good.... until you use up the top layer. what were you thinking mac?!


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## MAC_Whore (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LMD84* 

 
_great points mac whore.

and thanks for reminding me about the crappy glitz glosses! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 looks so good.... until you use up the top layer. what were you thinking mac?!_

 
Thanks.  

Yeah Glitz Glosses....all sexy on the surface, but dig a little deeper, no substance.  Kind of like a really shallow supermodel,lol.


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## TISH1124 (Aug 17, 2009)

Mac-Whore....That is what makes Blogs like yours and Mischevious so great, experience, honesty and knowledge....You are not a fly by night operation!! I enjoy reading your blog and you always speak truthfully about your product experiences....Thanks also for reminding me about SonRisa...I adore her looks and she is a crazy talent!!!

Don't even start me about the stealing...you know my experience with thieves as of late


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *JULIA* 

 
_Leelee, I was actually responding to MakeUpGeek's comment because she made it seem that it was a guru's fault the product she bought didn't work for her...Everything I said was related to people who do the same thing._

 
I understand that...but I think she had the same sentiments as I did, or at least that is how I read her post. I think she tried to "inform" herself as much
as any one of us do. But there are some things you try to "inform" yourself about that have been reviewed 20 times over, with a bunch of hype and no critique...all saying the same thing. That doesn't mean the critiques were truthful or factual...It could mean people are just "copying" vids/reviews they have seen before (not contributing much...just passing along hype). So as much as you try to inform yourself, the hype wears you down...and you end up buying things you hate. Is that your own fault? Sure you share in the responsibility...But I can see why someone would find fault in false/redundant/overly done hype that led them to "break down" and try something.


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## frocher (Aug 17, 2009)

...............


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## rbella (Aug 17, 2009)

Nobody can make you do anything.  You must take responsibility for your own actions in life.  I can totally understand being pissed if you feel like you got the shaft b/c of a shitty review, but in the end, said blogger/youtuber did not grab you by the hand, make you buy a product and then keep it.  In addition, perhaps the reviews might ACTUALLY be honest.  We don't all like the same things.  It is unfortunate that we don't all have access to brick and mortar stores, but you know what you are getting into with the reviews, obviously, or you wouldn't be posting/ranting about it here.

I am a makeup addict.  That sounds stupid, I know.  But, I have a SERIOUS problem with buying makeup and purchasing ANYTHING that someone states is even remotely decent.  That being said, I could totally be pissed at quite a few people for "pushing their agendas on me".  But, I'm an adult and the decisions I make, I own.  

I'm sorry you feel this way and I'm sorry you feel you have had bad experiences with some bloggers/youtubers, but I don't think that this warrants any type of big ass retaliation from the general public to reform change regarding vbloggers.  It is a free service, there is definitely "corruption" and it is what it is.  

I hope you are able to find some reviewers that you respect.  I really do.  And, I hope this doesn't continue to plague you and that you can realize that those people who are actually being dickheads in the review process, aren't worth the words you wasting writing/talking about it.  You deserve to be in better spirits than that.

Best of luck to you.  I do understand, and I do hope you find what you need.


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 17, 2009)

I totally take responsibility for my purchases and I take the blame.

And I still understand getting annoyed and bothered by reviewers who are dishonest or continue the overhyping trend.  They aren't doing anyone any favors. 

I think we all learn our lessons from trends like this eventually. I certainly have. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to ALSO say I wish it would change. It shouldn't be taken as a cue for people to assume that I/others are bitter and angry. You can't change things without 
expressing your opinions and sharing in those opinions with other like minded people...and perhaps a few youtubers/bloggers out there (not to mention cautioning "newbies" who might 
fall prey).


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## rbella (Aug 17, 2009)

^^^I agree with you there.  It is annoying and it the over-hyping is old.   I guess I just have a tendency to want to make sure that people don't push blame on others for their misfortunes.  I don't think you have tried to do that, and if you feel I think you did, I apologize.


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## TISH1124 (Aug 17, 2009)

I agree ...Also people should only watch and subscribe to the blogs they believe in...To be honest I don't even look at the fly by nights...I have about 3-4 blogs/youtubers that I trust and frequent...Just stop looking at the ones you don't trust or have a clue about the person or what they are saying. People watch because they want to not becase they are forced to..

Don't get pulled into all the Free Giveaways...that is only to get more subscribers ....


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_I agree ...Also people should only watch and subscribe to the blogs they believe in...To be honest I don't even look at the fly by nights...I have about 3-4 blogs/youtubers that I trust and frequent...Just stop looking at the ones you don't trust or have a clue about the person or what they are saying_

 
Sadly, even some of the ones I trusted/respected have done the same thing recently with this "trend". So basically I am skipping all product reviews in youtube vids. It's not worth the time. I will watch for the swatch and that's it.  Someone on Twitter just said "I am going to do my Sigma brush review even though you all will be bored since you have seen it so many times already"....Uhm. I wanted to ask "WHY do it then?" . I can't assume she is going to say anything that hasn't been said....even though I did like/trust this one. But eh, whatevs. 

I just don't understand.


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## rbella (Aug 17, 2009)

I think a lot of people are unfortunately trying to find "fame" in this industry.  Youtube is their way of getting noticed and possibly getting a job in the cosmetics industry.  What a lot don't realize, is that it is only a small population that "make it", much like in the entertainment industry.  Just an observation of mine.


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_I think a lot of people are unfortunately trying to find "fame" in this industry.  Youtube is their way of getting noticed and possibly getting a job in the cosmetics industry.  What a lot don't realize, is that it is only a small population that "make it", much like in the entertainment industry.  Just an observation of mine._

 
Yep...it's NILS (I mentioned it before... Name in Lights Syndrome) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either that, or the need to get more free stuff (nothing wrong with wanting that, but it's still annoying to see 70 reviews of the same product, all saying the same thing)


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## rbella (Aug 17, 2009)

Yes, I forgot, you did mention "NILS". LOL.  Now I have an acronym for it!


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Yes, I forgot, you did mention "NILS". LOL.  Now I have an acronym for it!_

 
I love acronyms a little too much


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## SakurasamaLover (Aug 18, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_  It is a free service, there is definitely "corruption" and it is what it is.  
_

 
Yeah thats the point.  I mean.. people shouldn't expect this to not turn like the world is like... willing to change that (what youtube is now) is like trying to change the world we now live in... not impossible but more then challenging.
Ego and profits are #1 in the desire and dreams of the ''modern'' country's..  It's a way of living industry's and governments are building since years now.
Yes it is revolting and non humanist, but then people have to change their way of leaving.. and dreaming.. and I'm not sure it can be done without major catastrophes first... and if you knew how much they put on developing marketing that make you do impulsive purchase... it's like the devil really wears Prada 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Morale is: be aware of your surrounding and what you live in. Try to ask yourself why you do stuff because people say you should.. there's always people who try to make money, cause money is power, pure and simple.


Oh.. and just like that... I'm so happy for all the planet that Obama won this election... still almost can't believe it.


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## MakeUpGeek (Aug 18, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_I understand that...but I think she had the same sentiments as I did, or at least that is how I read her post. I think she tried to "inform" herself as much
as any one of us do. But there are some things you try to "inform" yourself about that have been reviewed 20 times over, with a bunch of hype and no critique...all saying the same thing. That doesn't mean the critiques were truthful or factual...It could mean people are just "copying" vids/reviews they have seen before (not contributing much...just passing along hype). So as much as you try to inform yourself, the hype wears you down...and you end up buying things you hate. Is that your own fault? Sure you share in the responsibility...But I can see why someone would find fault in false/redundant/overly done hype that led them to "break down" and try something._

 
Thanks Leeleebell - they were similar sentiments. 
I am an ex-beauty therapist, and a mother who does research products as best I can before purchase - not a child, or an idiot. I didn't attack the people who misled consumers with hype (in my opinion false advertising), but I do feel I had the right to state my opinion here without being attacked for it, and spoken to as if I'm a halfwit. I named no names, nor did I ever attack the youtubers - I simply unsubscribed. 

That's why I stopped responding on this thread, and why I will remain silent further.  I gave my opinion, which I was entitled to do. If people wish to misquote / misunderstand my point...that's their problem. 

But think on this - if you feel the need to attack people for stating their opinions...normally that means they have a point and you know it. It's interesting watching who is on the defensive throughout this thread - if we didn't have a valid point...why so defensive?


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## malaviKat (Aug 18, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_I have no problem with her personally because I'm over 18 but my sister copies too much. She wanted to do tutorials herself and 15 is too young and she's not an expert yet so I know how the community would react. ..._

 
I agree with some of the points you are making but I think you're discussing oranges in a forum about apples. What you're describing is a parenting issue and a desire to keep, in your case, your sister, "free from harm" via the potentially corrupting influence of YouTube.  I don't think it's the job of anybody online to parent for others (any more than I think it's Britney Spears' responsibility to keep her merchandise from being sought after by tweens). It is well within your right to monitor what influences your sister and I commend you for doing so, but to force YouTube (via a rating system or some other mechanism) to curtail freedoms would only serve to further hamper creativity - creativity which has already taken a beating due to copyright crackdown.

Both the video you mentioned by jpmetz, and the original which inspired it, are  comedies. Both of the users in question state that they do parodies and sketch comedy...and they're YouTube "friends", for whatever that's worth. As I said, it's well within your right to parent a younger sibling (if that's the dynamic of your household) but to suggest that YouTube take over this responsibility is a little much, in my opinion. That's why there are parental controls for internet/computer use.

As for your sister being influenced by gurus & product hype, fair enough. But there are some (note: I am not saying this) that might argue that she shouldn't even be wearing makeup at 15...which would solve your problem.


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## User27 (Aug 18, 2009)

****


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## MAC_Whore (Aug 18, 2009)

Another pet peeve of mine?  Sites that buy their traffic with constant giveaways.  Once and a while is OK, but all the time?  Meh...let your site speak for itself. 

Oh, and regarding my comments about bloggers pimping readers for kick-backs on sites like Haute Look with "referral links", today you can buy your "referrer/pimp" some Perricone.


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## TISH1124 (Aug 18, 2009)

A friend of mine wrote her opinions about Blogs as she is a Blogger...I thought I would post...she is much more literate than I am lol...My typing sucks a *** seriously ..But I can copy and paste like nobody's business ...normally I would take the credit...but ya'll know I don't type or speak literally correct most times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Blog-based sites, as opposed to forum-based sites like Specktra, can be particularly prone to broadcasting opinions that are swayed to please a cosmetic company. 

Blog-based sites are a single mouthpiece that the cosmetic companies can reward or punish. Let's face it, it is much easier to control a single blog, than a large forum community of people with their own voices like Specktra. 

You have to look at blogs that are consistently getting promos and products 2-3 months before the release dates. Those are blogs being rewarded by cosmetic companies. Why? Because the company feels that that blog is a "safe bet", as in, the blog will say what the cosmetic company wants them to. I mean, let's face it. If the cosmetic company thought a blog would trash them, they wouldn't keep sending them stuff 2-3 months out before all the other blogs. 

Why shouldn't you trust that blog? The bottom line is that that blog is in the cosmetic company's back pocket. She, as a blogger, is saying what the cosmetic company needs her to say. 

You know how it is, the blogger fluffs a product up and sanitizes their site so the cosmetic company is happy, then the cosmetic company pats the blogger on the head with a tidbit of info and product. It's mutual survival. I hope people realize that.


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## rbella (Aug 18, 2009)

^^^True on a lot of those points, but there are a couple of Specktra members here who have blogs.  They get MAC waaayyyy before the releases, and I believe their blogs to be very honest.  In fact, this site relies on their swatches, etc. for information.  

I think it just comes down to who the person is, to be honest.  Some are going to be in the back pocket of companies and act like assholes, but some are really quite fair.  JMO.


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 18, 2009)

^ True that....But thanks to the many who are flat out dishonest and misleading, it's pretty hard to know which ones can be trusted. And it's too much effort for some, to try and "weed" through to find those "honest" reviewers...So I have officially given up on all product reviews in general. I still read MUA product reviews but even those I take with a grain of salt.


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## JULIA (Aug 18, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MakeUpGeek* 

 
_*That's why I stopped responding on this thread, and why I will remain silent further.  I gave my opinion, which I was entitled to do. If people wish to misquote / misunderstand my point...that's their problem. *_

 
And we are entitled to ours. This is an open forum, therefore you are sure to be met with oppostion. Feel misunderstood all you would like, but I don't think there is any room for misinterpretation with what you wrote here:

_"THAT is what I have issue with - they lie about the quality of products, I buy them and bam - my skin pays the price. I doubt I'm alone in that."_ 

It seems as though you're blaming gurus for your lack of success with whichever product you purchased. How...else is that to be taken? If there's any other way you meant that, then please do enlighten the few of us who disagreed with you.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MakeUpGeek* 

 
_*But think on this - if you feel the need to attack people for stating their opinions...normally that means they have a point and you know it. It's interesting watching who is on the defensive throughout this thread - if we didn't have a valid point...why so defensive?*_

 


It doesn't matter if your opinion had any validity or not, I simply didn't agree with what you said and that's that. I don't get how people came into this thread not expecting for their views to be debated. The mind, it be boggled.


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## TISH1124 (Aug 19, 2009)

The thing that amazes me the most about this whole topic and discussions in general is...People get so bent out of shape because of others opinions...The thing I love about Specktra is that all opinions are welcomed...debate is welcome and discussion is welcome...This topic was merely a discussion of opinions...So for all the people who are so damn upset and in a rage about it...Why? 
Other than possibly *the truth hurts*. So going outside of Specktra to bitch about the topic on blogs and twitter regarding member's opinions is irrevelant...post your disgust with the topic here if you feel it is so wrong and unwarranted. The thread is open for all to post, Specktra does not discriminate. 
I have found the truth sometimes cuts to the bone....and only the guilty get their panties all in a bunch over a simple discussion of valid opinions. As they say Opinions are like Buttholes..we all have them...some down right stink and others not so bad...If the topic does not apply to you or your blog...why the hell do you care enough to be so upset and in a rage about it...Move on and keep doing what you do...we are adults here, right?


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## cupcake_x (Aug 19, 2009)

I have to agree. With you and what Tish said in her first reply.

I actually prefer it when reviewers make a review on a product they don't like- that way, I know to avoid it. Whereas when they say they *LOVE* it, I'm not sure whether _I_ will.


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## frocher (Aug 19, 2009)

............


----------



## TISH1124 (Aug 19, 2009)

^^^^ Exactly!!! Makes you wonder don't it???


----------



## JULIA (Aug 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_The thing that amazes me the most about this whole topic and discussions in general is...People get so bent out of shape because of others opinions...The thing I love about Specktra is that all opinions are welcomed...debate is welcome and discussion is welcome..._

 
EXACTLY. I just hate how people are so unwilling to see the other side of the coin. If my willingness to debate was taken as a personal attack, then um...yeah...


----------



## astronaut (Aug 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_LOL it would be refreshing to see "Stuff that sucks this month" vids from the youtubers once in a while
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 That said, some of them do say, once in a while, when they aren't impressed...

I have seen MissChievous and TiffanyD do that...Julia hated some dazzleglasses, has criticized a lot of MAC stuff...and Tiffany has said she isn't impressed with certain MSF's or MAC collections that come out._

 
I made a video once on stuff that I disliked and got so much hate! People for some reason got butt-hurt over me not liking something that they use! I was called a snob, have too high of expectations, and someone even had to add that I was "balding" on top of those because you know, that's relevant and all...


----------



## TISH1124 (Aug 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *astronaut* 

 
_I made a video once on stuff that I disliked and got so much hate! People for some reason got butt-hurt over me not liking something that they use! I was called a snob, have too high of expectations, and someone even had to add that I was "balding" on top of those because you know, that's relevant and all..._

 

No friggin' way.....that is crazy...you should have said yeah I am balding on top because the product got in my hair...But feel free to keep on loving it and all...So weird people are


----------



## frocher (Aug 20, 2009)

...........


----------



## frocher (Aug 20, 2009)

.........


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *JULIA* 

 
_It doesn't matter if your opinion had any validity or not, I simply didn't agree with what you said and that's that. I don't get how people came into this thread not expecting for their views to be debated. The mind, it be boggled._

 
Debating views is one thing. Suggesting that others "Get informed" in the manner that you did, sounded as if you were assuming we are ignorant and hadn't done that before we posted.  You came off as though you were talking down to her/us and I don't think anyone appreciates that. I can see why she felt attacked and honestly, I didn't appreciate the way you expressed yourself there either.

You also seemed to assume, in another post, that because we had these sentiments, we were the ones posting negative comments in response to youtube videos...another post that could have easily been interpreted as a personal accusation rather than a debate on a topic.


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## L1LMAMAJ (Aug 20, 2009)

i can't believe this thread has gotten so long. wow.


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## JULIA (Aug 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_Debating views is one thing. Suggesting that others "Get informed" in the manner that you did, sounded as if you were assuming we are ignorant and hadn't done that before we posted. You came off as though you were talking down to her/us and I don't think anyone appreciates that...I can see why she felt attacked and honestly, I didn't appreciate the way you expressed yourself there either._

 
But that's okay, because I won't sugar-coat my opinion simply because some might get offended. I'm not one to tip-toe around people because they may not like what I have to say, why would I go and do that on the INTERNET of all places? However, if you go back and read what I said you'll notice that I wasn't even talking about anyone in the thread? It was simply a thought inspired by what whoever-that-girl-was said (username escapes me).


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_You also seemed to assume, in another post, that because we had these sentiments, we were the ones posting negative comments in response to youtube videos...another post that could have easily been interpreted as a personal accusation rather than a debate on a topic._

 
Again, you are the one doing the assumptions because no where did I refer to you guys. I was referring to people in general, something you would know had you read this:

_Leelee, I was actually responding to MakeUpGeek's comment because she made it seem that it was a guru's fault the product she bought didn't work for her...Everything I said was related to people who do the same thing._

So yeah, no apologies here from me.


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## User27 (Aug 20, 2009)

****


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## MAC_Whore (Aug 20, 2009)

You know what always works when things are on the edge of getting tense?  YMCA | Specktra.Net


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## LeeleeBell (Aug 20, 2009)

Good for you. Don't change a thing. I don't need an apology nor did I expect one.  But if you cared to know where we were coming from and what the other opinions are that you claim to welcome/expect on message boards....there it is/was.  You assumed it was debate/different POVs that were striking a nerve...but IMO that wasn't true at all. It wasn't debate anyone had an issue with in this thread...it was the feeling that we were being spoken to as if we were idiots. Clearly at least two people in this thread felt you weren't being respectful toward *our* opinion. If that wasn't your intention, I think you could explain that without getting defensive. And if it was your intention to be insulting, that's your prerogative and it's *our* perogative to say we don't appreciate it. 


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *JULIA* 

 
_But that's okay, because I won't sugar-coat my opinion simply because some might get offended. I'm not one to tip-toe around people because they may not like what I have to say, why would I go and do that on the INTERNET of all places? However, if you go back and read what I said you'll notice that I wasn't even talking about anyone in the thread? It was simply a thought inspired by what whoever-that-girl-was said (username escapes me).




Again, you are the one doing the assumptions because no where did I refer to you guys. I was referring to people in general, something you would know had you read this:

Leelee, I was actually responding to MakeUpGeek's comment because she made it seem that it was a guru's fault the product she bought didn't work for her...Everything I said was related to people who do the same thing.

So yeah, no apologies here from me._


----------



## cupcake_x (Aug 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MAC_Whore* 

 
_You know what always works when things are on the edge of getting tense?  YMCA | Specktra.Net_

 
That is so adorable


----------



## MAC_Whore (Aug 20, 2009)

Guys, since this has just come up, I would like to remind you of the Specktra review area where *anyone *can post a review. 

All you have to do is follow the format listed in the first sticky post of the category.  Type up that review and let us all know what you think of a product/tool.  Please note that this is a moderated forum, meaning that when you post your review, the assigned mod must "release" it to go live before you will see it.  This may take a day or two.  I know that's kind of a pain, but we do that to make sure that the reviews are correctly categorized and formatted so you, the end reader, have an easier time searching and reading.  

Aside from that, anyone can feel free to submit to Specktra's blog.  Those posts have to be approved.  Quite frankly, we've had some reeeeally odd posts that aren't makeup related appear, so I'm sure you can appreciate that. 

Specktra is a community.  It is all about you.  Back to what Tish said a ways back.  Specktra is a voice of many, not just one blogger/vlogger/personality.  Not that there is anything wrong with those singular sites, I just want to point out what Specktra's mission is.


----------



## User27 (Aug 20, 2009)

****


----------



## MAC_Whore (Aug 20, 2009)

No worries.  You weren't "stepping on any toes".  I just wanted to remind the veterans and inform the newbies.


----------



## JULIA (Aug 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_Good for you. Don't change a thing. I don't need an apology nor did I expect one.  But if you cared to know where we were coming from and what the other opinions are that you claim to welcome/expect on message boards....there it is/was.  You assumed it was debate/different POVs that were striking a nerve...but IMO that wasn't true at all. It wasn't debate anyone had an issue with in this thread...it was the feeling that we were being spoken to as if we were idiots. Clearly at least two people in this thread felt you weren't being respectful toward *our* opinion. If that wasn't your intention, I think you could explain that without getting defensive. And if it was your intention to be insulting, that's your prerogative and it's *our* perogative to say we don't appreciate it._

 
I just don't understand how you could feel that I was treating you like an idiot if I wasn't even directing my comments towards you. Also nowhere did I shoot down your opinion/point of view. please show me where i did this...


Also, are there really people in this thread who have run off to other places to complain? What the French, that's lame.


----------



## LMD84 (Aug 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MAC_Whore* 

 
_Guys, since this has just come up, I would like to remind you of the Specktra review area where *anyone *can post a review. 

All you have to do is follow the format listed in the first sticky post of the category.  Type up that review and let us all know what you think of a product/tool.  Please note that this is a moderated forum, meaning that when you post your review, the assigned mod must "release" it to go live before you will see it.  This may take a day or two.  I know that's kind of a pain, but we do that to make sure that the reviews are correctly categorized and formatted so you, the end reader, have an easier time searching and reading.  

*Aside from that, anyone can feel free to submit to Specktra's blog.  Those posts have to be approved.  Quite frankly, we've has some reeeeally odd posts that aren't makeup related appear, so I'm sure you can appreciate that. *

Specktra is a community.  It is all about you.  Back to what Tish said a ways back.  Specktra is a voice of many, not just one blogger/vlogger/personality.  Not that there is anything wrong with those singular sites, I just want to point out what Specktra's mission is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 
i didn't relaise that anybody can contribute to that.  how do we get posts approved if we wanted to do something for the blog?


----------



## MAC_Whore (Aug 20, 2009)

Just hit the "Contribute" heading under "Specktra.net" at the top of the page.


----------



## rbella (Aug 20, 2009)

^^^It works!! I've done it several times.  I highly recommend it!


----------



## CellyCell (Aug 23, 2009)

Although this thread has become entertaining to read...
Everything now is sounding redundant.
The same people always complain about it and the same people are always defending it and it always ends up in some form of understanding _*until*_ another Youtube thread is made.


----------



## L1LMAMAJ (Aug 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_The thing that amazes me the most about this whole topic and discussions in general is...People get so bent out of shape because of others opinions...The thing I love about Specktra is that all opinions are welcomed...debate is welcome and discussion is welcome...This topic was merely a discussion of opinions...So for all the people who are so damn upset and in a rage about it...Why? 
Other than possibly *the truth hurts*. So going outside of Specktra to bitch about the topic on blogs and twitter regarding member's opinions is irrevelant...post your disgust with the topic here if you feel it is so wrong and unwarranted. The thread is open for all to post, Specktra does not discriminate. 
I have found the truth sometimes cuts to the bone....and only the guilty get their panties all in a bunch over a simple discussion of valid opinions. As they say Opinions are like Buttholes..we all have them...some down right stink and others not so bad...If the topic does not apply to you or your blog...why the hell do you care enough to be so upset and in a rage about it...Move on and keep doing what you do...we are adults here, right?_

 
i love you tish


----------



## Kragey (Nov 6, 2009)

To be quite honest, I like it when a product has a ton of reviews on YouTube. Some reviewers/gurus actually say on their profiles that they will NOT record negative reviews, so maybe you'll see 2 people raving about a product while 8 or 9 people didn't like it and just didn't want to record a negative review. Not to mention, some people are just raving about products because they're paid to or because they got them for free, so they feel obligated to give a positive review. (I honestly don't think that's THAT common, though.)

Really, I'm just the complete opposite of my sister: she's so impulsive it hurts, and I brood over things for days. I will literally fill carts with makeup, then get halfway through the purchasing process and just STOP because I'm not sure if the products are worth it. (Poor college student and what-not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having a bunch of reviews of the same product really does make me feel more confident in my purchase, versus only one or two reviews.

Also, I think having a slew of reviews on a certain product provides you with information one reviewer may have left out. Like, how well a certain pigment blends or whether or not a certain lip gloss bleeds like woah. It IS a little annoying when 10 reviews of the same product come out from 10 different people all at once, but I think it's because one person reviews it, others hear about it, and then they all rush out to try it at once.

Essentially, I'm saying I understand the annoyance, but I personally like having a ton of reviews, even if they can get a little repetitive. It makes me feel a bit more confident as a buyer.

Besides, if it weren't for extra reviews, I'd have probably sold my left leg for a few small pots of Lime Crime shadow when I can just get the same stuff at a fraction of the cost and double the amount from TKB Trading. 

Now, obviously, nobody likes reviews that are just advertisements in disguise. Those tend to be annoying, fakey, and blatantly obvious, and I lot don't even show the product in action, so I try to avoid them.


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## hello_kitty (Nov 7, 2009)

I personally take reviews with a grain of salt.  I've seen things people rave about that I hate, and also the opposite (I like Beauty Marked dammit!!).  I prefer to swatch in person and make my own judgments on products.  Nothing against reviewers, because hell, I even review on my own blog.  I just try not to get caught up in it all.  

Now that I will be living 150 miles from the nearest MAC anything I *might* check out reviews more carefully because I might be having to order online, boo.  And this makes me understand how some people might really need to read them, because not everybody has places to by the products in their town/state/country.


----------



## lafemmenoir (Nov 9, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_The thing that amazes me the most about this whole topic and discussions in general is...People get so bent out of shape because of others opinions...The thing I love about Specktra is that all opinions are welcomed...debate is welcome and discussion is welcome...This topic was merely a discussion of opinions...So for all the people who are so damn upset and in a rage about it...Why? 
Other than possibly *the truth hurts*. So going outside of Specktra to bitch about the topic on blogs and twitter regarding member's opinions is irrevelant...post your disgust with the topic here if you feel it is so wrong and unwarranted. The thread is open for all to post, Specktra does not discriminate. 
I have found the truth sometimes cuts to the bone....and only the guilty get their panties all in a bunch over a simple discussion of valid opinions. As they say Opinions are like Buttholes..we all have them...some down right stink and others not so bad...If the topic does not apply to you or your blog...why the hell do you care enough to be so upset and in a rage about it...Move on and keep doing what you do...we are adults here, right?_

 
I give you a huge ^5 on this, there are people who use their blogs and twitter and YT status to rant, but will block anyone who dissents on their tutorials (i.e. haters) seriously, I have given up on YouTube as I'm tired of the phuckery and narcissism by women.  I'll watch the Pixiwoo's but the rest, I'd rather learn from forums.  I'm not in their demographics anyway and don't need to follow anyone, but it's nice to learn and see new techniques, etc. But these gurus have gone to great lengths to be competitive (Facebook fan, Twitter, Blog, YouTube, BlogTV, TinyChats) and say, "This is to help others ...it's not my job...." B!tch you live and breathe the internet and still have time to post on other peoples channels.  Hypocrites.  Sorry for the rant!


----------



## Boasorte (Nov 24, 2009)

^ Those "fan" pages on Facebook kill me LMAO

I'm so over Youtube, the only person I even watch on there is Julia now.
People take it too seriously.
However I must say, something that I'm uneasy with in this YT beauty world , is when the "gurus" ( for lack of a better term) make all these raves reviews on products that suck, and the younger people who know no better get suckered into buying them.
 I was reading some comments on yt on a few videos, and I see things like " I'm 12 years old and I look up to you so much, but the products you mentioned aren't good at all" , then that person gets attacked for saying that, like um seriously?

Kinda off topic, but does what's with all these videos on Youtube bashing those two sisters, Allthatglitters and Juicy something?
Allegedly they're sending emails and such to their subscribers, threatening to sue them because they found out they're "phonies" LOL it's just sad people are going so far with it man.


----------



## Nadeshda (Nov 24, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MsWestchesterNY* 

 
_Kinda off topic, but does what's with all these videos on Youtube bashing those two sisters, Allthatglitters and Juicy something?
Allegedly they're sending emails and such to their subscribers, threatening to sue them because they found out they're "phonies" LOL it's just sad people are going so far with it man._

 
The word out there is that is that a newspaper article mentioned their names, and they weren't the ones they use on the channels as their first name. When some members question them about it (even if nicely), they were blocked, and yes, the sisters threatened to sue them for slander. However, it goes deeper than that, it's rumored they are payed big bucks for the reviews (which, TBH, doesn't bother me, but has bothered plenty of people), and that one of them rigged a contest/giveaway.


----------



## Boasorte (Nov 24, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Nadeshda* 

 
_The word out there is that is that a newspaper article mentioned their names, and they weren't the ones they use on the channels as their first name. When some members question them about it (even if nicely), they were blocked, and yes, the sisters threatened to sue them for slander. However, it goes deeper than that, it's rumored they are payed big bucks for the reviews (which, TBH, doesn't bother me, but has bothered plenty of people), and that one of them rigged a contest/giveaway._

 
That's so crazy, I actually say the article, smh, I can't beleive people are getting so worked up over it, like um okay, they lied about their names, so what? And yea I hear the juicy girl was the one who rigged the contest. LOL I think this is sad and funny. Sad because I guess the suscribers feel cheated, and funny because these girls are lying, but didn't do it well.


----------



## LMD84 (Nov 25, 2009)

wow i had no idea that they were using different names - but like you said - who cares?! i used to use a fake name on the net because i was paranoid about people finding out my identity! i used to call myself Lucy (my real name is Lou!)

i don't watch the sisters channels though because i feel they are aimed at younger viewers.


----------



## Boasorte (Nov 25, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LMD84* 

 
_wow i had no idea that they were using different names - but like you said - who cares?! i used to use a fake name on the net because i was paranoid about people finding out my identity!* i used to call myself Lucy (my real name is Lou!*)


i don't watch the sisters channels though because i feel they are aimed at younger viewers._

 
I usually go by my last name cuz I never liked my first name ( Jezel)
That's true, but you know what? Not that I really care, but I don't understand why lie about the name when you're showing your face on  YT, saying where you work/intern all  that jazz.
There are some people on Youtube doing the beauty vids, who don't show their faces, which to me makes more sense.
My thing is, if you're gonna be discreet, don't do it half assed.
And yea I don't watch their vids either I think I saw a couple at most, and I think those were their makeup collection vids ( I love watching those kinda of videos!!!!!) And some other random ones I came across months ago.
I also think they're aimed at a younger crowd, and I personally don't like the way they do makeup anyway.
But to their subscribers, smh I feel pity for them, and I wanna slap all of them at the same time because 
A. These subscribers I feel are too into these beauty gurus borderline obsessed 

B. You can't believe everything one person says. You should already know they are paid to review things. I saw one vid , where one of them mentioned this one website like 22837293 times, I'm like smh....

when will this Youtube craze be over??
I'm so glad for Specktra!


----------



## rbella (Nov 28, 2009)

I'm so sick of the Youtube vids I could hurl.  There are a handful that I like that I have stated before, but a lot of it is just weeding through a bunch of crap.  Honestly, the best ones I have found via twitter.  I have followed certain people for awhile to get a "feel" for their character, etc.  You can tell so much by a person by how they conduct themselves on twitter.  If all they do is post contests, post about how "awesome" the same shitty line is, or obviously ask for handouts, then those are likely not people whose videos I would want to watch.  

I'm all for people who want to put their vids and tuts out there for the world, I think that is great.  But, if you are doing it for the free shizz, you are soooo in it for the wrong reasons.  Especially with the new law that has gone into effect for bloggers and vbloggers.

I guess the same can be said with the bloggers.  I think that blogging about beauty is awesome if that is your passion.  I think that you should do it for the love of your hobby.  I really enjoy reading a blog from someone who actually cares about makeup and the love of the art vs just stealing from other people's sites and re-posting.  I'm also surprised at the amount of people that have dissed others for starting beauty blogs/forums and then turn around and have their own.  Ummmmmm, hypocritical much?


----------



## Boasorte (Nov 28, 2009)

^ You know, I use to like the bloggers, because I would prefer reading rather than listen to someone ramble on, but I didn't know that they also got free stuff actually, until I read it in the newspaper some time ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I agree, I'm so over the contest.
But speaking of Youtubers, I came across this one called icraiz, her tutorials are good, and she doesn't shill, or anything like that.... but meh, who knows down the line 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I'm actually shocked that this thread got so long as well


----------



## nebbish (Nov 28, 2009)

I'd really like to do my own reviews -- Only negative things. I won't post positives. LOL!

But really, you guys are on to something. I don't like the fact that everyone seems very fake in what they're saying. OH THIS IS THE GREATEST AND IT'S MY FAVORITE and they say that about *everything* they've reviewed. I've *never* bought something because of a review for this exact reason.

Really, girls, maybe we should invade the YouTube scene with truthful realisitc reviews.


----------



## LeeleeBell (Nov 28, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nebbish* 

 
_I'd really like to do my own reviews -- Only negative things. I won't post positives. LOL!

But really, you guys are on to something. I don't like the fact that everyone seems very fake in what they're saying. OH THIS IS THE GREATEST AND IT'S MY FAVORITE and they say that about *everything* they've reviewed. I've *never* bought something because of a review for this exact reason.

Really, girls, maybe we should invade the YouTube scene with truthful realisitc reviews._

 
It's especially funny when a bunch of them get something before it's even available to the public and act as though they paid their own $ for it. I do think it makes a difference as to whether you think something is "worth getting" for the quality...when you have to pay for it with hard earned $$. I am far less critical about a product I receive as a gift than I am about something that cost me a lot and ended up being mediocre, at best. And sure I am going to be enthused by someone sending me a gift for free..I might get so excited I would write a great review before really using that gift for very long. 

There are some gurus/bloggers who deal with/promote an online retailer that sends them stuff quick and for free, but take months to send a product to the cash-paying customer (if they ever send it at all)...I see several gurus touting an online retailer that has terrible CS history according to posts I have come across on Specktra. 

And then some of them get bent out of shape and "shocked" that anyone would dare suggest that they aren't speaking gospel. ...Some of them just aren't dealing with the same "reality" that the cash paying public has to deal with...jmo

I love how some are bent out of shape about having to reveal what they get for free...
The reaction by and large seems to be "It's so stupid because you all know by now that I am honest with you always"...welllll

#1 Nope, don't know them personally, and a review IS different when you have to pay your hard earned cash
#2 If you're honest, you shouldn't have a problem telling us when it's free

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 
_ I'm so sick of the Youtube vids I could hurl. There are a handful that I like that I have stated before, but a lot of it is just weeding through a bunch of crap. Honestly, the best ones I have found via twitter. I have followed certain people for awhile to get a "feel" for their character, etc. You can tell so much by a person by how they conduct themselves on twitter. If all they do is post contests, post about how "awesome" the same shitty line is, or obviously ask for handouts, then those are likely not people whose videos I would want to watch. 

I'm all for people who want to put their vids and tuts out there for the world, I think that is great. But, if you are doing it for the free shizz, you are soooo in it for the wrong reasons. Especially with the new law that has gone into effect for bloggers and vbloggers.

I guess the same can be said with the bloggers. I think that blogging about beauty is awesome if that is your passion. I think that you should do it for the love of your hobby. I really enjoy reading a blog from someone who actually cares about makeup and the love of the art vs just stealing from other people's sites and re-posting. I'm also surprised at the amount of people that have dissed others for starting beauty blogs/forums and then turn around and have their own. Ummmmmm, hypocritical much?_

 
Ah. I see you've changed your opinion from before in this thread. What made you change your mind...anything in particular?


----------



## rbella (Nov 29, 2009)

^^^Yea, I guess I've noticed it more since this thread.  I still maintain that you have to be responsible for your decisions and your purchases.  But, I never realized just how many Youtube vids existed.  It is a crazy amount!

I also think that there are very honest bloggers and vbloggers out there, I just have become more aware of just how big this "industry" has become since being on twitter.


----------



## Boasorte (Nov 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nebbish* 

 
_I'd really like to do my own reviews -- Only negative things. I won't post positives. LOL!

But really, you guys are on to something. I don't like the fact that everyone seems very fake in what they're saying. OH THIS IS THE GREATEST AND IT'S MY FAVORITE and they say that about *everything* they've reviewed. I've *never* bought something because of a review for this exact reason.
*
Really, girls, maybe we should invade the YouTube scene with truthful realisitc reviews.*_

 
lol I can just imagine all us Specktra ladies making Youtube accounts, and posting video responses to those bullshit reviews
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and us telling the truth about these ' amazing' products


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## nebbish (Nov 29, 2009)

^^ Lol girl, That's exactly what I'm saying.
A whole Specktra channel called Truth & MakeUp!!


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## Vixxan (Nov 30, 2009)

It's no secret that we are in a bad economy right now. That makes it even more disturbing that anyone could spread hype about crap-o-products to the very people that have come to admire and trust them. I guess I’m naive because I never knew how dirty the whole YouTube guru thing is until recently. One by one I have watched gurus that I have enjoyed watching become cheesy low rate commercials. It’s sad to these people that I have gotten makeup tips from peddle products that they don’t know anything about.  When did it stop being about having fun with makeup and sharing tips? Did a free bottle of foundation really make you leave your morals at the door? Did the offer of a free face massager really turn you into to the dingbat this is so great girl? I can’t image how much free stuff they would have to give me to make me record a video and put it up for all the world see of me looking like a complete liar and an idiot.  I used to love watching makeup videos on YouTube now it’s the last thing in the world that I want to do.  When you guys start that Specktra YouTube channel count me and my big mouth in.


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## BeccalovesMAC (Nov 30, 2009)

I agree Vixxan. I personally do not buy products that I can not swatch or try on my self. This is why I have never bought any Bitchslap, occ, lime crime or any other cosmetic line out there. I just don't trust anyones opinion on youtube or their blogs. Makeup is expensive and I don't have money to waste. I despise Coastal Scents. some of their stuff is whack(used my sisters stash) and people keep giving great reviews.


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## MizzTropical (Nov 30, 2009)

I like _reading_ reviews where no personal photographs or video, contact information, and egos are involved, just text and stars. That way it's straight to the honest point and ur not saying something is fabulous just because u want more 4 free and u want 10 million people telling u how good it looks on u.


----------



## Boasorte (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *BeccalovesMAC* 

 
_I agree Vixxan. I personally do not buy products that I can not swatch or try on my self. This is why I have never bought any *Bitchslap*, occ, lime crime or any other cosmetic line out there. I just don't trust anyones opinion on youtube or their blogs. Makeup is expensive and I don't have money to waste. I despise Coastal Scents. some of their stuff is whack(used my sisters stash) and people keep giving great reviews._

 
Everytime I hear that brand I just shake my head
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MizzTropical* 

 
_I like *reading* reviews where no personal photographs or video, contact information, and egos are involved, just text and stars. That way it's straight to the honest point and ur not saying something is fabulous just because u want more 4 free and u want 10 million people telling u how good it looks on u._

 
I prefer to read reviews, and tutorials too
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 minus the bull


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## spacegirl2007 (Dec 1, 2009)

wow, ive seen quite a few videos uploaded today and its pretty obvious the gurus are not happy about having to make these declarations.


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## kabuki_KILLER (Dec 4, 2009)

I don't mind product reviews because I like seeing swatches, but I really wish that gurus would do more "looks" with what they got. It kind of sucks because one of my favorite guys on youtube is totally a review and haul junkie now and does no tutorial looks. I would think that anyone sending him stuff would be thrilled if he showed "practical application" of the product and how great it looks with this and that look.

I guess it bugs me more when people are lazy and not doing what made me get into their youtube in the first place than when they're raving about a product that isn't as A++ as they make it sound.


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## astronaut (Dec 5, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *kabuki_KILLER* 

 
_I don't mind product reviews because I like seeing swatches, but I really wish that gurus would do more "looks" with what they got. It kind of sucks because one of my favorite guys on youtube is totally a review and haul junkie now and does no tutorial looks. I would think that anyone sending him stuff would be thrilled if he showed "practical application" of the product and how great it looks with this and that look.

I guess it bugs me more when people are lazy and not doing what made me get into their youtube in the first place than when they're raving about a product that isn't as A++ as they make it sound._

 
mmm I agree. It's not like it used to be like 2 years back. It was more about actually sharing information but now I feel that more people are into the personal lives of "gurus" than actually learning about makeup. Tutorials usually take more time to do overall compared to other types of videos so I think some people just end up making, what I call "filler" videos like hauls, reviews, favorites of the month, vlogs, etc. more or even entirely. People are going to watch anyway, or even more so. I get a lot less views and comments on my tutorials, which is a bit upsetting since I put a lot more effort into them compared to a haul video. However, I'm going to try to focus on making more tutorials anyway. It's fun to share what you buy every once in a while, but it's not like I go shopping much anyway these days to do haul videos often. I definitely don't want to go into detail about my personal life with the whole world either. Some people have given me flack because they want to dig in deeper than the basic information I choose to reveal about myself, but sorry, no. That's not what I'm here for. Overall, I want my channel to consist of videos that contain content that is actually beneficial to some people rather than have mostly videos that are only for entertainment value.


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## rbella (Dec 7, 2009)

^^^I agree with your statement astronaut.  It does seem like people get kinda "pissy" when a youtuber doesn't respond to certain requests.  Some are very personal and kind of none of anyone's business.  I think that tutorials are much more interesting than haul videos.  I'd rather watch that any day.  I actually find the entertainment in the application of the makeup, not the "online personality".  I guess it is kind of a "reality tv" mentality now.


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## astronaut (Dec 7, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_^^^I agree with your statement astronaut.  It does seem like people get kinda "pissy" when a youtuber doesn't respond to certain requests.  Some are very personal and kind of none of anyone's business.  I think that tutorials are much more interesting than haul videos.  I'd rather watch that any day.  I actually find the entertainment in the application of the makeup, not the "online personality".  I guess it is kind of a "reality tv" mentality now._

 
I blame shows like "The Hills". I've seen people ask things like "Do you have a boyfriend?", "Can we see your boyfriend?", "Where do you live?", "Where do you work?", "Where do you go to school?", "Can you give us a tour of your bedroom?", "Can you make a video of your daily activities?"... WTF? That ain't none of yo business! 

If you look at some of the veteran gurus' channels, you might see that their earlier videos consisted of tutorials then it started fading to barely any tutorials at all. I think the Youtube partnership has something to do with it as well. Some might be tempted to make other videos that are quicker to make than tutorials since they are going to get paid for them anyway.


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## LMD84 (Dec 7, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *astronaut* 

 
_I blame shows like "The Hills". I've seen people ask things like "Do you have a boyfriend?", "Can we see your boyfriend?", "Where do you live?", "Where do you work?", "Where do you go to school?", "Can you give us a tour of your bedroom?", "Can you make a video of your daily activities?"... WTF? That ain't none of yo business! 

If you look at some of the veteran gurus' channels, you might see that their earlier videos consisted of tutorials then it started fading to barely any tutorials at all. I think the Youtube partnership has something to do with it as well. *Some might be tempted to make other videos that are quicker to make than tutorials since they are going to get paid for them anyway.*_

 

sad but i think this is very true


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## Meisje (Dec 7, 2009)

This thread is fascinating.

I have a few gurus that I watch and trust. I've surfed around through the YT makeup community in general and I can definitely see channels cropping up that seem to just want to cash in (ie giving "tips" that are things any novice already knows).

I understand only reviewing things you like. I was raised with the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" mantra, and I actually prefer largely positive vids --- it's GREAT to see gurus all excited about products, and I feel like I can tell when it's genuine. They usually aren't completley positive anyway; for instance the person may say "the color is gorgeous on shadow three and four and five from this collection, but five has poor texture and payoff."

I don't feel like getting something for free would necessarily sway someone's opinion. But the idea of people making channels JUST to get free stuff, and not because they have skill and genuine enthusiasm and talent to share, is lame.

Thanks to all the hardworking gurus who have taught me more about makeup in the last year than I've learned in the last 15 years!

Some of my YT faves are MissChievous, MakeupGeek, TiffanyD and pixiwoo (although I wish pixiwoo would get better lighting). Zoffe has also started making videos and I enjoy those as well. Edit: I forgot KillerColors blog... love her


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## Kragey (Dec 7, 2009)

Realizing this may get a few things pelted at my head, I can understand why some gurus don't do a lot of tutorial vids. They really ARE a pain in the butt to do, because most people don't have a video that can record for that length of time. Personally, I haven't done any look tutorials yet because my camera can only record on medium quality for 6 minutes, and that's only enough time for the absolute quickest and simplest of looks. I could record one half, then take it off on my hard drive, record the other half, etc., but that gets REALLY tedious and takes a LONG time.

Although, I really make my videos just for my friends, most of whom know nothing about make-up, so fancy looks would just confuse most of them. It's not exactly the same thing. 

It would be easier if people would be content with picture tutorials that go step-by-step, or the hybrid tutorials that show a picture of the step and explain what to do, then show the artist actually doing it. But I've seen people whine like crazy when that happens.

And I do agree that people are getting way too personal with some gurus. Yes, I get that they have nice personalities, and maybe they mention something personal briefly that you're curious about. But asking for tours of their room, pictures of their family, what they do on a day-to-day basis...that's just strange. They're MAKE-UP gurus, that's what they want to post videos about!


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## LMD84 (Dec 7, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kragey* 

 
_
It would be easier if people would be content with picture tutorials that go step-by-step, or the hybrid tutorials that show a picture of the step and explain what to do, then show the artist actually doing it. But I've seen people whine like crazy when that happens._

 
wow people can be mean! if somebody takes the time to do any kind of video like that they should be a little thankful. or at least just not watch if they don't like it! crazy!


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## Meisje (Dec 7, 2009)

I've noticed more and more bitchy/personal/whiny comments on videos lately, too.


----------



## Boasorte (Dec 9, 2009)

personal questions are getting out of hand. And if I see another " how much did you spend on all that makeup?" question again, I'm gonna SCREAM


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## BeccalovesMAC (Dec 12, 2009)

Is it me or with all this new FTC disclaimer stuff make it easier to figure out who the real bullshitters are?  Like I was watching makeup by mommagee the other day, and she said straight up she was being paid to use Bslap makeup and she is their spokesperson. Doesn't she understand that she looses all credibility when she says shit like that? I understand that they might make some kind of income by accepting money from makeup companies. I just dont trust their opinions after stating that. That's like paying your lawyer to defend you. Hes only defended your ass cuz you paid him and not because he thinks your innocent. lol Just like strippers and gold diggers too.   I only watch tutorials now and not reviews. I am so freaken tired of bullshitters. I wasted money on really bad products because dumb ass gurus. Its my own fault. my 0.02


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## MizzTropical (Dec 12, 2009)

........


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## Boasorte (Dec 16, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *BeccalovesMAC* 

 
_Is it me or with all this new FTC disclaimer stuff make it easier to figure out who the real bullshitters are?  Like I was watching makeup by mommagee the other day, and she said straight up she was being paid to use Bslap makeup and she is their spokesperson. Doesn't she understand that she looses all credibility when she says shit like that? I understand that they might make some kind of income by accepting money from makeup companies. I just dont trust their opinions after stating that. That's like paying your lawyer to defend you. Hes only defended your ass cuz you paid him and not because he thinks your innocent. lol Just like strippers and gold diggers too.   I only watch tutorials now and not reviews. I am so freaken tired of bullshitters. I wasted money on really bad products because dumb ass gurus. Its my own fault. my 0.02_

 
Makes me wonder if Nikki20six wasn't paying her, if she would still use it??
I know prior to this whole crappy bslap madness, all she used was NYX and BenNye


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## MissResha (Dec 16, 2009)

lol i remember when queenofblending was praising Lime Crime brushes


i bought them


they all sucked ass, except for a few. i was like "oh no, im reviewing these" and i did. and i said in my review which ones sucked. i just couldn't let folks think they were worth the cheap price of $25. terrible.


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## Boasorte (Dec 17, 2009)

whoa Resha!!! Haven't seen u on the boards in a minute!!


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## BeccalovesMAC (Dec 17, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MsWestchesterNY* 

 
_whoa Resha!!! Haven't seen u on the boards in a minute!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
U beat me to it! I was about to post the same thing. We miss u Reesha!!!!!!!


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## chocolategoddes (Dec 17, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *BeccalovesMAC* 

 
_Is it me or with all this new FTC disclaimer stuff make it easier to figure out who the real bullshitters are?_

 
lmfao!!!! that's so true.

I'll be watching a YT vid and then the guru will say something like "...and yes, I am affiliated with this brand and I have recieved all of these products for free."
and I'm like, "Oh, really???"

I'm glad I never really bought into the hype of all these popular makeup brands from YT. Like, I'm sure Sigma brushes are nice, but Sigma brushes give their stuff out for free all the time and host a whole bunch of contests to put their product out there... but then, I can't really tell who's review is actually truthful!


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## Boasorte (Dec 17, 2009)

word about the Sigma brushes, aaarrrrrgg I was so tired of seeing those damn contests, but omg they now have PINK brushes!!! I can't resist pink.... MAC needs some SE pink brushes dammnit!


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## Boasorte (Dec 17, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *BeccalovesMAC* 

 
_U beat me to it! I was about to post the same thing. We miss u Reesha!!!!!!!_

 
LOL Word, now all we need is for Tish to come back!


----------



## MissResha (Dec 17, 2009)

i missed you guys too!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i sadly had some life traumas interfere but i'm here now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 let the fckery commence LOL


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## Kragey (Jan 25, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *chocolategoddes* 

 
_lmfao!!!! that's so true.

I'll be watching a YT vid and then the guru will say something like "...and yes, I am affiliated with this brand and I have recieved all of these products for free."
and I'm like, "Oh, really???"

I'm glad I never really bought into the hype of all these popular makeup brands from YT. Like, I'm sure Sigma brushes are nice, but Sigma brushes give their stuff out for free all the time and host a whole bunch of contests to put their product out there... but then, I can't really tell who's review is actually truthful!_

 



I don't necessarily take "I got this for free" to mean "I'll review it positively no matter what." When I review sex toys, I get $200+ items for free, and believe me, I've lambasted some of them. By the same token, I've raved about $10 stuff if it was totally worth the price.

Now, here's the issue as I see it: in the sex blogging community, there's the expectation that if you give your product out for free, you'd better be prepared for an HONEST review, no matter how expensive it is. And most sex toy retailers respect that. But many beauty companies, by contrast, expect you to rave about if; in many cases, if the guru disliked the product, they generally just don't review it. I think that sucks, honestly.


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## paperfishies (Jan 27, 2010)

_but 15 year olds are already sneaking to school and cussing around their friends.

_If the worst thing a 15 year old is doing is dropping an F bomb on ocassion, then you should count yourself lucky.  


Man, this thread had a ton of LOL moments.  I still need to go back and read a few pages.


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## astronaut (Apr 28, 2010)

Xsparkage just posted a video reviewing a L'Oreal foundation, the one that rolls on like paint, and just look at the comments she's getting. A lot of people are upset over the fact that she doesn't like the product! WHUT. So get mad over someone only posting positive reviews and when they make a negative one people get all pissed over that too. Well... 

YouTube - First Impressions: LoReal True Match Roller


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## LMD84 (Apr 28, 2010)

people don't make sence at all do they?! she's posting honestly reviews and reactions to products and people don't like it?! wth?! i'm pleased she is being honest!


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## LeeleeBell (May 7, 2010)

I didn't intend to revisit this thread to post, but I just read this recent NY Times article and it really went along with the lengthy discussions we've had in here....

Skin Deep - Haul Video Brings a Bag of Finds, and Words Only for a Camera - NYTimes.com


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## Nicala (May 7, 2010)

... I think I'm completely speechless now. O_O


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## Kragey (May 7, 2010)

And that, my friends, is why I refuse to become partner, take money for a review, or lie in my reviews in exchange for free stuff. With it comes the expectation that you're going to be promoting the product, not reviewing it, and that to me is utter bullshit.


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## Nicala (May 7, 2010)

Good! We need more gurus like you


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## RedRibbon (May 7, 2010)

I've posted in this thread before and since then I've been blogging a lot and so I think my experience/mind may have changed.

In the past I was sent an item which I liked but no other bloggers did and I still said I wouldn't buy it because it was fiddly to use and you could get better results from something else.  I got a really horrible email from someone asking my why I was reviewing something I didn't like..I don't understand that, it's my blog/youtube channel and you should be able to post what you want..

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MizzTropical* 

 
_I like reading reviews where no personal photographs or video, contact information, and egos are involved, just text and stars. That way it's straight to the honest point and ur not saying something is fabulous just because u want more 4 free and u want 10 million people telling u how good it looks on u._

 
I like this too when people say if it's good or not but I would prefer a DECENT swatch of the item if it's something like foundation/blusher/eyeshadow.  You don't really need a swatch of mascara all the time.  I say decent swatch because otherwise what's the point if you can't see the colour properly? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've come across countless reviews where people are all sugary when they've gotten something free and they big it up so the freebies don't dry up..yet when they pay for it, they're more ready to say it's crap.


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *spacegirl2007* 

 
_wow, ive seen quite a few videos uploaded today and its pretty obvious the gurus are not happy about having to make these declarations._

 
I've noticed the same actually and I think that if you're gettin pissed about having to say that something was free then people are correct to question your integrity as why else would you get annoyed saying it was free?

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Meisje* 

 
_I've noticed more and more bitchy/personal/whiny comments on videos lately, too._

 
I've seen this too, like it's a burden to make youtube videos? I don't understand this, it's quite easy to stop making them if you want to but I think some people want the kudos and freebies without putting the effort in.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *BeccalovesMAC* 

 
_Is it me or with all this new FTC disclaimer stuff make it easier to figure out who the real bullshitters are?  Like I was watching makeup by mommagee the other day, and she said straight up she was being paid to use Bslap makeup and she is their spokesperson. Doesn't she understand that she looses all credibility when she says shit like that? I understand that they might make some kind of income by accepting money from makeup companies. I just dont trust their opinions after stating that. That's like paying your lawyer to defend you. Hes only defended your ass cuz you paid him and not because he thinks your innocent. lol Just like strippers and gold diggers too.   I only watch tutorials now and not reviews. I am so freaken tired of bullshitters. I wasted money on really bad products because dumb ass gurus. Its my own fault. my 0.02_

 
Good point re. figuring out who bullshitter are.  I think sometimes you can tell when people have been paid but don't disclose it because their videos sound like cheap infomercials like someone said..


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## Kragey (May 7, 2010)

^ I will say that I get very "bitchy" when people don't listen to what I'm saying (and it's evident they weren't listening in their comments), accuse me of lying, rate me poorly JUST because of my lipstick color instead of rating the video based on how helpful it is (which I'm used to, but it's still annoying), or act like I owe them something. I'm thankful that they're watching me, really, I'm totally flattered...but I don't owe them anything but respect, and visa versa.

I also refuse to treat people like idiots or sugar coat things, which apparently makes me "mean." I'm sorry, you're most likely in your teens, minimum, so why should I treat you like you're a 5-year-old? I hate being treated that way, I'm not going to do it to other people.


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## RedRibbon (May 8, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kragey* 

 
_^ I will say that I get very "bitchy" when people don't listen to what I'm saying (and it's evident they weren't listening in their comments), accuse me of lying, rate me poorly JUST because of my lipstick color instead of rating the video based on how helpful it is (which I'm used to, but it's still annoying), or act like I owe them something. I'm thankful that they're watching me, really, I'm totally flattered...but I don't owe them anything but respect, and visa versa.

I also refuse to treat people like idiots or sugar coat things, which apparently makes me "mean." I'm sorry, you're most likely in your teens, minimum, so why should I treat you like you're a 5-year-old? I hate being treated that way, I'm not going to do it to other people._

 
I totally agree with you, I think that some people watching think that they own you and that you should only review things which would be of use to them which is a very selfish attitude to have, they should be grateful that people take time out to make these videos, not long ago you couldn't find ANY reliable reviews of products online and now there are a lot.  

I've read blogs where the person has been a right bitch when it's something she has bought herself and said things like "if you don't like it, tough!" yet when she been sent something she's all like "oh sweeties, you really need to try this DARLING thing, it didn't work too well for me but it may do the trick fo you lovelies".

Why do they feel the need to change when it's not their money being spent? If anything, I'm harder on the products I get to review than the ones I buy myself.


----------



## RedRibbon (May 8, 2010)

ETA: I suppose it is easy to see it from both sides when you don't make videos or watch them any more (me).  Re. the whiny thing I agreed to, I meant more like when people say "I really haven't got time to be doing all of this.." as if they're obligated to make videos..if that makes sense?  If you don't have time, don't do it as I'm sure someone else will come along to do it as there are many reviews for one product on youtube/blogger. 

I think that with a lot of the "gurus" it's an ego thing, they like people fawning over them and listening to their every word and thus don't want to stop.  That's just human nature though, if you've got attention, you don't really want to lose it.


----------



## vintageroses (May 8, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *BeccalovesMAC* 

 
_Is it me or with all this new FTC disclaimer stuff make it easier to figure out who the real bullshitters are?  Like I was watching makeup by mommagee the other day, and she said straight up she was being paid to use Bslap makeup and she is their spokesperson. Doesn't she understand that she looses all credibility when she says shit like that? I understand that they might make some kind of income by accepting money from makeup companies.* I just dont trust their opinions after stating that.* That's like paying your lawyer to defend you. Hes only defended your ass cuz you paid him and not because he thinks your innocent. lol Just like strippers and gold diggers too.   I only watch tutorials now and not reviews. I am so freaken tired of bullshitters. *I wasted money on really bad products because dumb ass gurus. *Its my own fault. my 0.02_

 
I totally agree with you, so many of them are doing it now though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sighs & we want to trust them but it's so hard because of all the products we bought & failed to perform! Now when i see reviews esp when the FTC says they were send the product i immediately close the video, it just isn't worth my time watching something which is said just because they were obligated to. 

Where are all the honest & nice gurus! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My friends have been telling me to start a channel but i really don't want to be termed as another of this dis-honest gurus because if i were to do reviews i will be honest. Gurus are to help people get the best product for their skintype/need! Not to mislead us


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## Kragey (May 9, 2010)

If you want to make a YouTube channel, I say go for it. There are very few "big" gurus I trust, and sometimes I just need a break from the bullshit.

The really sad part is that some of the most honest and knowing people on YouTube are the haulers. I say that not because I dislike hauling, but because most haulers don't do reviews.


----------



## vintageroses (May 9, 2010)

^^ Thank you Renee for all the support 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 & yess i totally agree with you! Oh wells. What can we say/do, it's really not within our control just be smart & don't get conned by their reviews! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



That's also why i trust forums aka Specktra so much! Everyone here is more genuine & no one is paid to say anything! We are all just sharing our experiences & i love it!


----------



## astronaut (May 9, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kragey* 

 
_^ I will say that I get very "bitchy" when people don't listen to what I'm saying (and it's evident they weren't listening in their comments), accuse me of lying, rate me poorly JUST because of my lipstick color instead of rating the video based on how helpful it is (which I'm used to, but it's still annoying), or act like I owe them something. I'm thankful that they're watching me, really, I'm totally flattered...but I don't owe them anything but respect, and visa versa.

I also refuse to treat people like idiots or sugar coat things, which apparently makes me "mean." I'm sorry, you're most likely in your teens, minimum, so why should I treat you like you're a 5-year-old? I hate being treated that way, I'm not going to do it to other people._

 
Uhhh I know what you're saying! I find it disrespectful for me to take the time to go through and mention certain things in a video only to have someone ask something that I've already mentioned in that same video they commented on. One of my longtime peeves have been when someone asks a question during lectures when the instructor just went over it but that I can still understand since it's in real time and sometimes we miss things but with videos, you have the ability to replay. I sometimes feel like making a video is useless I might as well just have a blank video titled skincare or whatever and have people ask questions if they're not going to watch anyway? But fortunately, it's not everyone, just a few dingalings 

And I get the same treatment as you in terms of not sugarcoating things and being labeled as mean. Sometimes I get comments from people saying I need to smile more because I look pissed in my videos. I've even watched those videos from beginning to end and I honestly don't see anything wrong with them. Some people have very outgoing personalities and some people are more mellow. Plus people will act differently when they are talking to someone versus an inanimate object like a camera... I can't believe people seriously expect me to change my personality or fake it on camera. They don't realize that just because someone's smiling doesn't always mean that they are happy and just because someone's not smiling doesn't mean they are pissed, sad, or whatever. If you expect me to smile as I talk like Ryan Secrest, forgetaboutit.


----------



## Boasorte (May 9, 2010)

astronaut;1936726 One of my longtime peeves have been when someone asks a question during lectures when the instructor just went over it [/quote said:
			
		

> OMG I fu(king HATE that! It's so annoying!


----------



## Kragey (May 9, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *astronaut* 

 
_And I get the same treatment as you in terms of not sugarcoating things and being labeled as mean. Sometimes I get comments from people saying I need to smile more because I look pissed in my videos. I've even watched those videos from beginning to end and I honestly don't see anything wrong with them. Some people have very outgoing personalities and some people are more mellow. Plus people will act differently when they are talking to someone versus an inanimate object like a camera... I can't believe people seriously expect me to change my personality or fake it on camera. They don't realize that just because someone's smiling doesn't always mean that they are happy and just because someone's not smiling doesn't mean they are pissed, sad, or whatever. If you expect me to smile as I talk like Ryan Secrest, forgetaboutit._

 


This doesn't make sense to me. I've been subscribed to you for a while now and your videos look perfectly fine to me...just because you're not loud and obnoxious like I am doesn't mean you don't care.

Sometimes I have to cover my videos in annotations just to avoid repetitive questions.


----------



## vintageroses (May 10, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *astronaut* 

 
_And I get the same treatment as you in terms of not sugarcoating things and being labeled as mean. *Sometimes I get comments from people saying I need to smile more because I look pissed in my videos.* I've even watched those videos from beginning to end and I honestly don't see anything wrong with them. Some people have very outgoing personalities and some people are more mellow. Plus people will act differently when they are talking to someone versus an inanimate object like a camera... I can't believe people seriously expect me to change my personality or fake it on camera. They don't realize that just because someone's smiling doesn't always mean that they are happy and just because someone's not smiling doesn't mean they are pissed, sad, or whatever. If you expect me to smile as I talk like Ryan Secrest, forgetaboutit._

 
Seriously? I just went to watch your video & i think you are nice. Just because you are not grinning from ear to ear every second doesn't mean you are pissed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't worry you'll always have loyal supporters!

You look pretty btw


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## LMD84 (May 14, 2010)

recently i have been getting fed up with some blogs that i used to enjoy reading. literally every post is about something that was sent to them to review! what happened to buying something you like - then sharing your thoughts on that? why does everything have to be about what freebies you were sent?! 

some blogs are still good... but i feel like slowly they are being replaced with adverts rather than blogs which have quality reviews where somebody bought the item themself. obviously i know that some people can't afford to buy lots of things just to review... i'm not silly. but equally i'd rather read nothing than some random crap about something you have been given for free - which quite frankly looks like cheap tat!


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## marusia (May 14, 2010)

I just google the products that I'm interested in and find blogs that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I like watching Enkore (he's awesome!) and another girl named Tiffany. She does some really great reviews (of her own products) and tutorials. Everything else I just stumble upon. hehe


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