# Do Indian Women Want Lighter Skin?



## aziajs (May 31, 2007)

*New York Times, May 30, 2007

Telling India’s Modern Women They Have Power, Even Over Their Skin Tone 

By HEATHER TIMMONS

NEW DELHI, May 29 — The modern Indian woman is independent, in charge — and does not have to live with her dark skin. 

That is the message from a growing number of global cosmetics and skin care companies, which are expanding their product lines and advertising budgets in India to capitalize on growth in women’s disposable income. A common thread involves creams and soaps that are said to lighten skin tone. Often they are peddled with a “power” message about taking charge or getting ahead. 

Avon, L’Oréal, Ponds, Garnier, the Body Shop and Jolen are selling lightening products and all of them face stiff competition from a local giant, Fair and Lovely, a Unilever product that has dominated the market for decades. 

Fair and Lovely, with packaging that shows a dark-skinned unhappy woman morphing into a light-skinned smiling one, once focused its advertising on the problems a dark-skinned woman might face finding romance. In a sign of the times, the company’s ads now show lighter skin conferring a different advantage: helping a woman land a job normally held by men, like announcer at cricket matches. “Fair and Lovely: The Power of Beauty,” is the tagline on the company’s newest ad.

Not surprisingly, the rush to sell skin-lightening products has drawn some criticism, with people saying that the products are at best unsavory and that they reinforce dangerous prejudices. 

When Unilever markets Fair and Lovely, it “doesn’t cause bias,” but it does make use of it, said Aneel G. Karnani, a professor with the Stephen M. Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan who earned a business degree in India. 

Global cosmetics companies — which also sell skin-lightening products throughout Asia and in the United States, where they are marketed as spot or blemish removers — argue that they are just giving Indian women what they want. 

Taking offense at the products is “a very Western way of looking at the world,” said Ashok Venkatramani, who is in charge of the skin care category at Unilever’s Indian unit, Hindustan Lever. “The definition of beauty in the Western world is linked to anti-aging,” he said. “In Asia, it’s all about being two shades lighter.” 

Sales of Fair and Lovely have been growing 15 to 20 percent year over year, Mr. Venkatramani said. 

Skin-lightening products are by far the most popular product in India’s fast-growing skin care market, so manufacturers say they ignore them at their peril. The $318 million market for skin care has grown by 42.7 percent since 2001, says Euromonitor International, a research firm. 

“Half of the skin care market in India is fairness creams,” said Didier Villanueva, country manager for L’Oréal India, and 60 to 65 percent of Indian women use these products daily. L’Oréal entered this specific market four years ago with Garnier and L’Oréal products, but so far has a small market share, he said. 

The idea of “glowing fairness” has nothing to do with colonialism, or idealization of European looks, Mr. Villanueva said. “It’s as old as India,” he said, and “deeply rooted in the culture.” 

There’s no denying that the notion of “fairness,” as light skin is known in India, is heavily ingrained in the culture. Nearly all of Bollywood’s top actresses have quite pale skin, despite the range of skin tones in India’s population of more than a billion people.

Lightening products can damage the skin if they are overused, dermatologists say, particularly if they contain hydroquinone. The compound reduces melanin but can leave permanent dark spots in high doses. 

Deeply rooted ideas about women’s roles are slowly shifting in India. The percentage of women married before the age of 19, for example, has dropped sharply. Advertising and marketing gurus are aiming at young, urban Indian women, who are earning their own money and are potential customers for a host of products including name-brand clothes, cosmetics and new cars. 

India is hardly alone in its pursuit of “fairness.” Korea, Japan and China are big markets for skin-whitening products. And the United States is not exempt. Ebony magazine ran similar ads relating to full-face “skin brightening” or “skin whitening” creams aiming at African-American consumers through the 1950s and 1960s, said Jeanine Collins, communications director for Ebony. Those ads changed their message during the 1970s and 1980s to talk about removing spots or blemishes, she said.

In India, advertisements for L’Oréal-branded products and the company’s Garnier line generally feature a pale model, and focus on the ingredients in the product, using take-action language like “YES to fairer and younger looking skin” or “Against inside cell damages.”

L’Oréal’s super-high-end Vichy line is more direct: the main advertising image in Asia shows a woman unzipping her blemished, darker face to reveal a light, even-toned one within.

“We have never had any complaints about the ad’s social implications,” said Nitin Mehta, India general manager of the active cosmetics division of L’Oréal, which makes Vichy products. 

Unilever’s Fair and Lovely brand has drawn particular scrutiny because of its market dominance, its ads and the parent company’s image. Unilever also makes Dove products, whose “Real Beauty” campaign encourages women in the United States and Europe to embrace the way they look. This month, Unilever said it would ban super-skinny models from ads. 

The All India Democratic Women’s Association has been monitoring advertisements since the 1990s and gets particularly angry with ads that convey the message “if she is not fair in color, she won’t get married or won’t get promoted,” said Manjeet Rathee, a spokeswoman for the association’s media group. The current crop of television ads for fairness creams are “not as demeaning” as ones in the past, she said.

In a twist that makes it difficult for critics to accuse Unilever of stoking just women’s insecurities, the company has begun to advertise a Fair and Lovely product for men. *
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What are your thoughts?

Personally, it's troubling.  I don't like the idea that to be more beautiful, or successful you have to be "fairer".  The color complex, as I like to call it, is something I am all to familiar with within the black american community and have realized that it extends well beyond that to Eastern cultures as well.  

I will say, to be fair, that I wonder if this is different from all the ads and attention placed on having that sun-kissed, beautiful darker skin tone attained by having a tan and if this product is in any way different from all the tanning creams and gels and sprays used to achieve the latter.  

I don't know.


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## Dark_Phoenix (May 31, 2007)

I think having "dark" skin is associated with having blotchy, overly tanned by exposure over the years, unevenly pigmented skin in this context. I don't find it troubling any more than ads promoting a tan/bronze/dark skin to look "healthy" are troubling.... so because I'm pale I need to buy this-that product to get a "glow" when I'm really darkening my skin to look more beautiful? Um... not very different than lightening, imo.

I think _is_ rather Western to associate the promotion of one skin color over another with racism, it's just like the article said that _“The definition of beauty in the Western world is linked to anti-aging,” he said. “In Asia, it’s all about being two shades lighter.” _"

So it's not a matter of racism or discrimination any more than prefferring  women with  younger appearence over older appearence is... it's just beauty. Like your skin can be hyperpigmented and darkened via sun exposure and it can also age this way. So in the Western world we aim at anti-aging and in the Eastern world beauty is aimed at skin lightening.


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## aziajs (May 31, 2007)

Well, to go along with your point, ageism is a big problem in this country too, it's just another form of discrimination.  It is the reason why so many people, men and women, turn to products to alter their appearance.  Being young and youthful is definitely preferred.  It's the same type of issue.  Is it better to have smooth skin as opposed to a few wrinkles?  We're not talking issues caused sun damage or other factors but just wrinkles as a result of getting older, of nature taking it's course.  Or is it better, more beautiful, to do whatever you can, botox, face lifts, restilin injections, etc. to have the appearance of younger skin?


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## Beauty Mark (May 31, 2007)

Well, for whatever the reasons, Asia in general celebrates pale skin. A friend when to the Philippines with her boyfriend, and the family thought she was so gorgeous because she has fair white skin. Another friend whose very tan for being East Asian (it's natural; in the dead of Northeast winter, she has a tan) isn't as beautiful in the eyes of her family because she has a year long tan. An Indian friend of mine is adamant about being darker (she's very fair; she's maybe a shade or two darker than my East Asian skin) because of this cultural notion. She sees it more as wanting to be more like "Western" culture, because when she visits her family in India, they wear "Western" clothes and are more interested in US/Europe culture than their own; I don't know if they do this to accommodate my friend or it's how it always is.

There are a lot of reasons why light skin is desired. De-colonization is pretty recent for some of these countries, and I can imagine that being white is equivalent to power (which is better) to some of these people (racism). Some of these people can terribly old-fashioned and think being pale means you don't have to work in the hot fields like the tanned people (classism). Or it could be simply people wanting the exotic. A lot of trends in beauty aren't something most people can achieve, like when being thin with big breasts was trendy; I know there are quite few people who do have that natural body, but there are many, many more who do not.

I think more research has to be done on it. However, it's really silly that one skin tone is touted over another.


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## MisStarrlight (May 31, 2007)

So many people have color complexes (what we call it at my job)...I guess I never would have noticed it before working w/ color-matching people every day, but a very large majority of my customers (of all ethnicities) ask for a foundation other that their actual skintone.  
(Older) Indian women do seem to be the most extreme of the cases though....often asking for an NW15 instead of the NC 42-45ish that they are naturally.

The article is interesting to say the least.


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## redambition (Jun 1, 2007)

i think it stems back to classism.

when you think about it, in an area where farming or outdoor work is the main source of income - those with fair skin appear wealthy, because they don't have to work in the sun.

in an area where indoor work is the main source of income, having darker (or tanned) skin can be seen as a sign of wealth - as that person has the leisure time to spend getting that tan. pale skin becomes a sign of the worker. this is ever so true these days in the cities in the west - tanned skin is considered beautiful, healthy etc. why? because we all spend so much time working indoors. tanned skin denotes having the luxury of time. that is slowly changing now that we know of the dangers of tanning... but so many people still strive for that tan look.

you can't win


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## amoona (Jun 1, 2007)

I didn't read the entire article cuz I'm supposed to be doing something else haha. But like MisStarrlight said a lot of people have color complexes. For example a lot of my lighter skinned customer want to be an NC44 when they clearly are an NC30 TOPS!

I have heard that in India the women like light skin. I've also heard that they wear a lot of colored contacts (blue eyes and green eyes). It's not a matter of racism but I think that the general idea of beauty is that lighter women are the ideal. Like a nice light shade, but a healthy tan. Does that make sense?! 

I think it counts here too, all my light skinned customer want to be tanner. It's not a race thing like I said, it's just when everyone sees the nice medium toned girl with the perfect tan - not too light, not too dark - then that's what's in.


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## ndn-ista (Sep 20, 2007)

Hmmm....I love my black hair, tanned skin and brown eyes! I have Indian friends that try to look lighter and always associate other girls as pretty if they are lighter skinned. I'm sorry but I'm Indian and I get compliments on my tanned complexion and how I can wear a lot of colors. Those Indian girls that dye their hair blonde, wear foundation 3 colors lighter then what they are and have blue contacts--well all that is out! Now, it's about natural and enhancing your natural beauty, not manipulating it!


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## xolovinyoo (Sep 20, 2007)

i think lighter skin or pale skin is uglier on women, i have a medium tan skin& i wanna get a little darker, lol.


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## Dark_Phoenix (Sep 20, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xolovinyoo* 

 
_i think lighter skin or pale skin is uglier on women, i have a medium tan skin& i wanna get a little darker, lol._

 
:huh2:

I don't know when we started talking about what we thought was pretty or ugly. 

It's about cultural ideals and trends. What you said is slightly offensive to the more melanin challenged.


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## peinapple (Sep 20, 2007)

Unlike ageism, the ideal of lighter skin in India has deeper roots in discrimination. Even though the caste system has been abolished, the cultural stigma of being and untouchable is still in effect. Brahmins, who were considered to be the top caste generally posessed fairer skin and if your skin was dark it was usually assumed that you were an untouchable. Untouchables were denied education and rights and were stuck with the jobs that were considered dirty and demeaning. All together there were a total of 4 different castes with brahmins being the highest and the untouchables being the lowest.

So no, this is not like ageism. This is more like slavery, and yes your skin color mattered. Sometimes, though rarely, you might be able to marry up a caste. Maybe if your skin was pale enough.


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## krk19 (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes it is true that Indian or South East Asian women want lighter skin and its not just in-between lighter. The general notion is "the lighter it is, the better it is." I am telling you from my experience because I am from south east asia. I go there every year and in the past two years I have seen shocking amount of skin brightening creams in stores from all big major brands. Skin Brightening products that are never sold in the US are being sold there. Obviously there mutli-national cosmetic companies have used women's complexes and long established cultural notion of beauty. Promoting these brightening creams will only strength women's insecurities about her skin color. It's hard not to buy those creams when 40% of the creams and lotions section is filled with skin brightening products. Face wash, soap, body wash, moisturizer, serum....you name it and its there. Its crazy!!! The advertisements for these skin brightening product is everywhere, from magazines, newpapers, TV and big billboard ads. I cringe when I see them. I think women all should be more aware of how their beauty products define prejudices for beauty, be that skin brightening or darkening product.


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## glam8babe (Sep 20, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xolovinyoo* 

 
_i think lighter skin or pale skin is uglier on women, i have a medium tan skin& i wanna get a little darker, lol._

 
thats not a very nice thing to say


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## MsCocoa (Sep 20, 2007)

I think this is sad not only because it's making people feel pressured by an ideal look but also the the historical reasons behind it and the health risks that some lightening creams have. I know natural tanning can cause skin problems but you can always fake the glow.


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## SparklingWaves (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xolovinyoo* 

 
_i think lighter skin or pale skin is uglier on women, i have a medium tan skin& i wanna get a little darker, lol._

 
I would be very "ugly" looking to you.  NW15 here and I am so fine with it too.

In regards to the article, I have heard about this and the wave of those desiring to be fair is falling over into other countries.


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## user79 (Sep 21, 2007)

Cosmetics companies have a knack for preying on women's insecurities. Either your skin is too dark, too pale, too wrinkly, too uneven....when will it ever stop. Of course we as women can strive to make the best of ourselves, but we should just be comfortable in the skin we're in and accept those factors which we cannot change.


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## flowerhead (Sep 23, 2007)

Interesting...I was watching a programme about this a couple of years ago, I remember a lady saying that in the villages of India, a mother would prefer to have a 'plain fat pale baby' to a 'dark skinned beauty'...I think it's just a cultural thing I suppose, just how tanned skin is more coveted in the West than pale skin. Pale skin has been associated in Asia with wealth and elegance for hundereds of years, (It only changed in the West with the 'luxury' of St. Tropez etc) so maybe that's why. You cant change the beauty ideals there, but they should stop bashing dark skin in order to sell their products. To state that lighter skin 'glows' more than dark skin is completely false, it's usually the other way round. Well they couldn't sell their products by saying 'Get dull pasty skin' could they? Pale skin is usually more monotone and has less depth than dark skin.


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## flowerhead (Sep 23, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xolovinyoo* 

 
_i think lighter skin or pale skin is uglier on women, i have a medium tan skin& i wanna get a little darker, lol._

 
Well sweetie, all the 'ugly' pale ladies will be laughing at you when you resemble a dehydrated prune in 20 years


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 23, 2007)

Quote:

  I remember a lady saying that in the villages of India, a mother would prefer to have a 'plain fat pale baby' to a 'dark skinned beauty'.  
 
It's probably because fat and pale means you have money (you can afford a lot of food and don't have to work in the fields).

I think there's beauty in all skintones. Nicole Kidman is pretty pale, and she has gorgeous skin. Not everyone wants to use self-tanner or tempt skin cancer.


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## glam8babe (Sep 23, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *flowerhead* 

 
_Well sweetie, all the 'ugly' pale ladies will be laughing at you when you resemble a dehydrated prune in 20 years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
haha yeh!


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## flowerhead (Sep 23, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_It's probably because fat and pale means you have money (you can afford a lot of food and don't have to work in the fields).

I think there's beauty in all skintones. Nicole Kidman is pretty pale, and she has gorgeous skin. Not everyone wants to use self-tanner or tempt skin cancer._

 
Maybe. I think from her tone she meant fat as being a defect...Basicly she meant they'd rather have a plan looking child if it was pale than a dark pretty one.
I certainly don't want a tan, was that aimed at me?


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## nics1972 (Sep 23, 2007)

Yeah.. its true.. in India, people associate beauty with light colored skin. This is very slowly dying though.. very very slowly. I am from India as well and I dont try to hide my actual skin color.. this is who I am. Take it or leave it and I dont care what anyone thinks.


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 23, 2007)

Quote:

  I certainly don't want a tan, was that aimed at me?  
 
It was a general comment on the whole idea that being tan is better than being light.

There are good things and bad things about most skintones, IMO.

 Quote:

  I think from her tone she meant fat as being a defect.  
 
I was thinking along the lines of what a dance teacher told me (I take classical Indian dance) that a more rounder body is ideal than a thin one.


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## DirtyPlum (Jul 1, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *aziajs* 

 
_* “The definition of beauty in the Western world is linked to anti-aging,” he said. “In Asia, it’s all about being two shades lighter.” 

The idea of “glowing fairness” has nothing to do with colonialism, or idealization of European looks, Mr. Villanueva said. “It’s as old as India,” he said, and “deeply rooted in the culture.” 

There’s no denying that the notion of “fairness,” as light skin is known in India, is heavily ingrained in the culture. Nearly all of Bollywood’s top actresses have quite pale skin, despite the range of skin tones in India’s population of more than a billion people.

Deeply rooted ideas about women’s roles are slowly shifting in India. The percentage of women married before the age of 19, for example, has dropped sharply. Advertising and marketing gurus are aiming at young, urban Indian women, who are earning their own money and are potential customers for a host of products including name-brand clothes, cosmetics and new cars. 

*




_

 
I'm gonna keep it brief n simple...

^1st point...
Sad, but true.  It really is such a big deal still with a lot of south asians... I see it around me a lot... no one cares abt aging, as long as they look fair!

2nd/3rd point - I dont think it has anything to do with colonialism at all... its just what ''looks good'' to a lot of shallow ppl.  The Bollywood industry is not helping at all by only recruiting lighter skinned actors

4th point - wow, its encouraging that attitudes are slowly changing and I really wish ppl worldwide would stop being shallow and being so hung up on their skin tone.  

I hate hearing "isnt it too dark?", "going lighter one shade, just to brighten up my face" as much as I hate hearing "gosh i look so pale i look dead, i need to be warmed up" 

Ok, so having the odd whinge here n there abt some feature of urs is oretty natural, but to base ur life and to make a business out it is sad...
Embrace your colour, heritage, culture, ancestry and be grateful for being alive, healthy and fit!


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## S.S.BlackOrchid (Jul 1, 2008)

It's true. If you look at Indian matrimonials, many of them say them they want a fair woman. It roots from a symbol of wealth (wealthy women staying inside and not getting tanned, etc), not from colonialism or European looks. It precedes the British rule. 

Yes, it is ridiculous. My distant relative had a baby, and they were freaking out because they thought the baby had dark skin and would grow up to be ugly, so they kept using creams on the baby. My aunt, who's very reasonable, said that she didn't understand what the fuss was about and that the baby looked fine to her.

The trend is  very slowly dying, because more people are starting to criticize it. I hope it does die out because it is just stupid. People talk about my sister not being fair, but she has the most beautiful, glowing, dark bronze skin.


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## Mizz.Yasmine (Jul 3, 2008)

as far as getting a tan goes, most people just look ''healthier'' becuz they have a glow going on from the sun, thats something any darker skinned girl should be proud of, u don't have to risk skin cancer just to get some color

and i wouldnt call pale skin ugly! if u want to be blunt, ur facial features make u ''ugly'', not ur skintone. look at someone like jennifer lopez or eva longoria, u can see pix of her from pale to tanned and shes still beautiful simply becuz her face is beautiful.


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## chocolategoddes (Jul 3, 2008)

It's not just India or other Asian cultures(obviously) but as far as I know this is VERY popular among West African women. I have aunts with husbands, kids, and siblings who are very dark and yet they are this funny shade of brown and yellow. 
I'd ask my mom, " Why is Auntie _so-and-so_ lighter than everyone?" and she'd tell me because she bleaches her skin. 
It's a big beauty fad in places like Nigeria but it's also looked upon, kind of like extreme tanning is here. 
Light skin sometimes means youthful and brighter skin to people. I would be lying if I said I never used to wish I was slightly lighter, too, but I'm happy with myself now. But hey, it's up to them. Bleaching your skin, wearing blue contacts, straightening your hair... all the same idea to me.


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## frocher (Jul 3, 2008)

.......


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## frocher (Jul 9, 2008)

...........


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## xsnowwhite (Jul 9, 2008)

That fair & lovely ad is very interesting. It is much like a tanning ad you would see in the US.


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## frocher (Jul 9, 2008)

..........


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## Shaquille (Jul 9, 2008)

I used to live in a country in south east asia where they think "fair (white they call it there) is beautiful". There are whitening lotions everywhere.. They think being fair is superior and much better. 
My skin is medium dark brown and I hung out with friends whose skins are much fairer, and I just didn't get appreciated the way they were.. and for awhile, I felt depressed and wanted to have fair skin color too, so I started using the whitening lotions - apparently gave allergic reaction.
When I moved to Europe, and now I'm in Canada, I learn that skin color is not important, and I get more appreciations because of my attitude and aptitude.
Now I am so comfortable in my own way and use make up and lotions to enhance my skin color.


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## seonmi (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm from a south east asian country and I hated that notion of beauty because I'm tanned. There were girls that all the guys would die for just because of their fair skin tone (they totally didn't have pretty faces). I used to whiten my skin in spas and wear face mask (if you know what I'm talking about) and gloves and jacket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 everytime I left the house. 
My mom several times asked me if I needed some whitening lotion, she could send me some. I was like: no, I don't have any problem with my skin tone here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I feel bad for my sister being disadvantaged compared to those fair skinned girls


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## ndn-ista (Jul 9, 2008)

Im indian..I think i wrote this before somwhere on this site..I have pretty medium-olive-honey color tone. I use fair and lovely, ONLY because it makes my skin look and feel softer. But I loveee getting tanned, and that glowy almondy look. I actually wear a darker foundation and lots of bronzer only because it looks good!


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## miss_supra (Jul 9, 2008)

In the east lighter color is wanted because it means you have money. Back in the day if you had money or was in a higher caste/social ldder you had people to work for you. Lower closes, such as farmers, were always outside so their skin were dark and upper classes didn't work outside so they had lighter skin.


I forgot when it happened, but sometime in the 1900s  a woman that was in the public eye vacationed in Europe. She developed a tan, which was then started people wanting darker skin because it was an upper class thing in the west. In the west you had people working in factories and office so they would go outside. Their skins were lighter, but the rich, upper classes had time and money to go to Europe for vacations. During their vacations sunbathing was the thing to do.


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## mocha_queen (Jul 10, 2008)

Im quite pale compared to most indian women, but i absolutely love dark/brown skin tones
It bothers me that a lot of women feel that in order to be beautiful or sucessful they need to be fairer/lighter.

Yes, bollywood was all about celebrating just that
but im glad darker women are slowly emerging on top and are considered beautiful. They will set an example.


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## kimmy (Jul 11, 2008)

i don't see why the media is allowed to tell me that the better tan i have, the better i will look but when the tables are turned it seems to be percieved as some big racial conspiracy.

i don't understand why the whole world can't just stfu about skincolour/tone anyway. does it really matter?


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## Tinkee-Belle (Jul 11, 2008)

I think what it comes down to is people want what they dont have...

For instance, Indian women want lighter skin, but I am super pale with (naturally) blonde hair and I dye my hair very dark and get spray tans so I can look more "exotic." People ask me what my nationality is everyday and they are always suprised when I say... German.


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## frocher (Jul 11, 2008)

..


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## DirtyPlum (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *frocher* 

 
_NC40-35 you need to fix it, NC25-30 you are fair and lovely! You will get modeling contracts and land that hot guy! You will go from frumpy and unappealing to a knockout with a jet set lifestyle! It's really interesting._

 
LOL, damn I'm NC40 I better dig out the Fair n Lovely!  Haha, maybe thats why I'm single too! Lol, its so funny you are spot on!  
I got told by this guy once, you'll have no prob finding a guy, you have a nice personality, smart, and youre 'fair' - I just looked at him and shook my head.  Its so shallow but youre right its ingrained in the culture and minds of south asians, I worry it wont ever change.


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## lovelyweapon (Jul 13, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *frocher* 

 
_Exactly.  When I am in Asia, people are always referring to how lovely and pale my skin is, and maybe I should just do something about all my freckles.  In the US people say I could use a bit of sun, and that I look too pale.  It's an interesting dichotomy._

 
I definitely agree with this. I am Hispanic and was born in the Dominican Republic but I live in Miami, Florida. In both locations, which are predominantly populated by Hispanics, the tanned look is _mostly_ preferred. It is viewed as a sign of health, as mentioned earlier, rather than with class. A positive sign of health here is generally considered more attractive than a positive sign of class.

I guess it also explains the whole J-Lo booty being preferred as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But that's a whole other thread...


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## Misstink (Sep 7, 2008)

I am east asian born and raised in the USA.  I have an "all year tan".  and I do use a "brighting" line, to keep my skin as light as I can.

Why?

1. Saddly, alot of people in the west think of asians very sterotypically.  Straight black hair, no eye lids, and light skin.  I have naturally wavy hair that is not black in the sunlight, eye lids and a tan.  Because of this I often get taken for another race and have been even told they would have never guessed I am east asian.  And to be completly honest, it feels like a big blow to your esteem when you get told you look nothing like what you should "look like".  Lightening my skin makes me have more self esteem that I "look like what i actually am"

2.I grew up around american and asian pop culture.  As many have said above, most of the celeberties in the east are fair skined.  In every country women idolze these women in the spot light.  EVEN IN THE WEST, women want their skin another color, want their hair another color, evne their body another shape, because these beautiful famous women were like that.  Same with eastern women, excpet having tan skin, those idols have fair skin.  so for me, i want that too.

3.  I get a shade darker being in my car for 30 minutes.  and my skin doesnt tan smooth, it tans blotchy.  no matter what color you want to be or what culture.  we all want an even complextion.  for me to get an even complextion without having to use a full coverage make up, is to keep the tan off my skin, and diminish those tan spots.


anyways, that is my two cents on that subject.


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## BeautyPsycho (Sep 7, 2008)

I find it interesting that the guy in the "Fair and lovely" commercial is tan (and hot btw)... 

Oh, the joy of being a lady. We are too fat, too skinny... too light, too dark... our hair is too curly, too straight, our skirt is too tight, too short and too long... we are bitchy if we say what we think, stupid if we don't. We are sluts, we are uptight and act as virgins... we are never good enough.

Well, screw that.


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## ~Zoe~ (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_Cosmetics companies have a knack for preying on women's insecurities. Either your skin is too dark, too pale, too wrinkly, too uneven....when will it ever stop. Of course we as women can strive to make the best of ourselves, but we should just be comfortable in the skin we're in and accept those factors which we cannot change._

 
I think you said it best MissChievous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



It is really heartbreaking that these beauty ads are basically exposing women's insecurities -- and instead of building us up to appreciate what God blessed us with, we have to view it as something thats 'wrong' in us and needs to be 'fixed.' 

Although I do think cosmetics' companies are now (slowly) more aware of the many complexions of women, they use it to make us feel like we will never be beautiful unless we use their products. There's this idea that 'perfect beauty' is one single aspect of a women and whether that be our complexion, shape, or height, there's never a focus on accepting & loving the diversity that exists in the world...

This was a really interesting article -- thank you for sharing this


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## free09 (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm Pakistani and I want fairer skin....no I don't hate myself....but my body is fair and my face is really dark. Also when my skin is light, my dark hair and eyes 'pop' more..


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## Holy Rapture (Dec 3, 2008)

Umm well, readin all this, am really having a big laugh ... I am an Indian who stays in India 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, given that I'm very fair (compared to the general population), it really doesn't matter anymore. Plus, no body can or should categorize these things as per the country or region they belong to! A mentality originates from the mind n as we all know, all minds work differently. The main thing is YOU ALWAYS WANT SOMETHING YOU DON'T HAVE!! If you're fair, you wanna get tanned, you're darker, you might fancy being a tad lighter, you're fat, you wanna be slim, you're thin, you wanna look healthier!! I mean, come on, the Fair n Lovely ads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







They are ads!! Since when have ads shown the REALITY ?????? They take a notion they think is common n blast it onto the screen!! No body in India or for that matter, any place else in the whole world could care less for complexions!! You want stuff you don't have. People, let's not say things based on the outlook you have of a region ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, yea, am glad this came up, at least some body needed to clear the air!


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## DirtyPlum (Dec 3, 2008)

^^  I'd like to think that fellow specktrettes are not going to base their opinions and judgments on India on discussions about complexion hating and Fair and Lovely ads.  There arent any direct attacks on people of Indian/South Asian origin, but this notion has developed and is prevalent in South Asia (not just India).

I am south asian and do think its still an issue and fairly common.


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## Holy Rapture (Dec 3, 2008)

It certainly is good that everyone talks about stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, since the topic says "Indian women", my reaction is bound to be the way it is ....


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## abbey_08 (Dec 3, 2008)

lol oh my god women always want what we cant have!! im really pale and fake tan to the high heavens (i wont use sunbeds for obvious reasons) so im just assuming that indian women view being fairer the same way as a pale woman would view being tanned. 

i mean SOME people do associate having a tan with wealth and the like and tan because they want to look like a celeb or look like they been away to somewhere exotic...so its not that much different for an indian woman wanting to look fairer

i say aslong as the products are safe and wont cause any bad reactions or illness then its fine.


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## FlashBang (Dec 3, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xolovinyoo* 

 
_i think lighter skin or pale skin is uglier on women, i have a medium tan skin& i wanna get a little darker, lol._

 
I was quickly skimming through the forums and found this thread. I was sooo relieved to see so many diplomatic and intelligent responses...until of course I saw that.

As a very pale person (nc15) I take great offence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that comment is racist.

Anyway...Im with alot of the girls here, its all about embracing what you already have and making the best of it. The only time skin looks bad is when you havent looked after it, maybe from caning the sunbeds or something.

OMG lol! I just watched that fair and lovely ad! I couldnt help but laugh, that thing is so bad! How can they even air that without feeling racist? 'The one obstacle in my life....my skin' wow....


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## abbey_08 (Dec 3, 2008)

yeh but boob job adverts have the same theme of 'the one obstacle in my life...' kinda thing. i dont think its racist. it just plays on insecuritys of women cos we are never happy with anything....we either think we are too pale, too dark, too fat or too thin and comestic companys tap in on these insecurities and market products aimed at people seeing it and thinking 'omg if i take that my life will be better'. i dont think its racist...if a skin lightner is racist then so is a bottle of fake tan in my eyes. 

theres a difference between racisim (hating on someone purely because of their race and being predjuce) and not particularly liking pale skin. i think sometimes racism word comes in too quickly when talking about skin colour...not liking something doesnt make a person racist.


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## tottycat (Dec 3, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *DirtyPlum* 

 
_LOL, damn I'm NC40 I better dig out the Fair n Lovely! Haha, maybe thats why I'm single too! Lol, its so funny you are spot on! 
I got told by this guy once, you'll have no prob finding a guy, you have a nice personality, smart, and youre 'fair' - I just looked at him and shook my head. Its so shallow but youre right its ingrained in the culture and minds of south asians, I worry it wont ever change._

 
This is not a joke!! I just got back from Bangalore, and they think that NC25-30 is the pinnacle of beauty! I'm an NC25 (I'm half Japanese and half European) and I actually have had people stroking the skin on my arm saying my skin colour is so beautiful (these are South Asian women). I've never noticed it myself...it's just the color I am.

LOL! I've been asking my other half if I look like fish paste and do I need the fake tan! Cultural differences, I guess!


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## stronqerx (Dec 3, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glam8babe* 

 
_thats not a very nice thing to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
my pale ass has to agree. I think everyone just isn't happy with what they have to work with. I used to feel bad about my skin color, and even thought about tanning, but my bf made me feel better and plus i rather look pale then orange rite?


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## DirtyPlum (Dec 3, 2008)

Tottycat - I know!!  I laugh at it cos its part of my culture (im south asian) and quite frankly, thats all that I can actually do abt it!


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## tottycat (Dec 3, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *DirtyPlum* 

 
_Tottycat - I know!! I laugh at it cos its part of my culture (im south asian) and quite frankly, thats all that I can actually do abt it!_

 
Well the bottom line is that we all can't look like Aishywarya Rai, skin colour or not! We should all embrace what we have. I didn't even realise that it was such a big deal in India, until I went to buy some fake tan after my luggage got delayed in London. Needless to say, I didn't find any self tan at Health and Glow, but I sure did find lots of whitening cream!


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## jdepp_84 (Dec 3, 2008)

Well to be honest I would kill to have darker  skin.  I hate having fair skin and dont understand why anyone would want to have lighter skin.  Well okay I do understand the whole social bias behind such a reasoning, but seriously, women with darker skin are gorgeous!  I cant believe its 2008 and society is still pushing such stigmas on women that already have enough pressure to be skinny, tall etc.


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## sedated_xtc (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm not sure, but when I was in Hong Kong a couple years ago, the hugest thing going was the skin whitening potions. Sort of like the new fad, it's not always about actual having WHITE skin per se, but to have lighter skin that's evenly toned with no freckles, sun spots or stuff like that imo.


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## tottycat (Dec 4, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sedated_xtc* 

 
_I'm not sure, but when I was in Hong Kong a couple years ago, the hugest thing going was the skin whitening potions. Sort of like the new fad, it's not always about actual having WHITE skin per se, but to have lighter skin that's evenly toned with no freckles, sun spots or stuff like that imo._

 
You are right about that, but that's not a new trend per se. I am a case in point...since I am 50% Celtic and 50% Japanese, I got the double whammy in the hyperpigmentation department. If I don't wear SPF 50 everyday, not only do I tan as soon as I go out in the sun (not very likely here in London this time of year, but I do tan rapidly), my face explodes with freckles. If you look at my skin close up, you will see a zillion freckles, just like those of a red-head, because half of my family has milk-white skin and blue eyes (and never tans). So, I have the worst of both worlds in the hyperpigmentation department -- these freckles can enlarge into big sun spots if I am not careful. You can see this effect on rural women in East Asia, who have never worn sun protection in their life.

So, I do use whitening formulations by Shiseido, NOT to appear whiter (for heaven's sake, I am NC25, I don't want to be any paler), but to damp down melanin production and prevent age spots. Oh, and don't forget the SPF--I wear a minimum of 15 even if I'm not leaving the house, upto SPF 50 when I am outside in sunny weather, even in the UK.

So, it's not just pale redheads that have tons of freckles! I have just as many, but they are not as noticeable because I am not extremely pale (e.g. NW15).


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## Mabelle (Dec 4, 2008)

This is freakin WEIRD! It;s Written by Heather Timmons... Im Heather Timmons!!!
This is soo weird. I was watching law and order a couple hrs ago and the murder vics name was Timmons. My last name isnt even very common.

frrreeeaaakkkyyy.


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## Holy Rapture (Dec 4, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Mabelle* 

 
_This is freakin WEIRD! It;s Written by Heather Timmons... Im Heather Timmons!!!
This is soo weird. I was watching law and order a couple hrs ago and the murder vics name was Timmons. My last name isnt even very common.

frrreeeaaakkkyyy._

 
Sure is ...


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## cupcake_x (Dec 4, 2008)

*Sigh*

It was a very interesting article- Although it saddens me that women can't love themselves for who they are! I think ALL skin colors are absolutely beautiful. 

I do understand the whole "fairer staying inside/darker being outside in the fields" thing, but I feel like it should have never mattered to begin with.


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## Shadowy Lady (Dec 4, 2008)

I haven't been to India but I do have two Indian friends and they have been there many times and have told me stories of ppl wanting to be lighter. One of these girls' moms even told me years ago that I should go to India as Indian men will love me coz I'm fair and lovely!!! (btw, I'm not even that fair, but I guess it's a relative term)


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## sedated_xtc (Dec 4, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *tottycat* 

 
_So, it's not just pale redheads that have tons of freckles! I have just as many, but they are not as noticeable because I am not extremely pale_

 
Me too!!! I've got Asian skin with slight yellow undertones but around my cheekbones, I have some spotty freckles and they really annoy me. I admit to buying some of these whitening creams/masks before but it's because I use them to try to even out my skin tone and imo, I feel that a slightly fairer complexion works better with the makeup I put on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





And as a side note, I flipped through my Maclean's from last week (I think it was last week) and came upon this article, which is imo, similar to the first article and it scares me that it's so common for advertisers to demean other people based on the colour of their skin to promote their product. 

I'm all for capitalism in some respects, but when this happens it just makes me sad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Here's the online link to the article I was talking about if anybody's interested!!!
Macleans.ca » Blog Archive The quest for a lighter shade of pale «


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