# URGENT... I Need everyone to pass this message on!



## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

I just had this conversation with an Indian friend about about beauty. At first the conversation was about weight and to make a long story short she thinks Kate Moss's body is perfection, while I'm more along the lines of Kim Kardashian. She said that men only like thin women and that any other body type is obnoxious and that men only settle for fat women. Oh and she also said that men set the standard of beauty. So as you could guess that made me livid. 
Then to add even more insult to injury she said that men like white women more than any other race b/c white women are thinner and their skin is better and their features are more defined and delicate. Lord help me when she actually made this statement, "White is perfection." 
All I could say was, " There is no such thing as perfection and I'm sorry for you that you live in a society where you are not considered beautiful. Beauty comes in every shade, not just white." She is a gorgeous Indian woman... and I'm a black woman. So she basically told me she was closer to perfection than I was yet both of us were still too far away. I swear, it was like hearing Hitler's dream.

I just wanted to share this story that both deeply saddened and angered me. But I can't get mad at her. I can only get mad at a society and culture than instilled in her that only a size 2 white woman could be considered beautiful. Now I know beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and all colors. This site is living proof that everyone is beautiful, and the variation in features that make up the human race is amazing! 

so my question is... How do I get this girl to see that she is beautiful as a woman of color? That she is beautiful as a woman? That she is beautiful as a human being?


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## IDontKnowMomo (Feb 19, 2009)

Honestly, I give up instantly on anybody that has an opinion that only one race, shape, or standard is beautiful. 

Oh, and I didn't know women were thinner and had better skin... >:[


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## SakurasamaLover (Feb 19, 2009)

This is really sad but you cannot undo all the perceptions she had and the environment she grew up in only by having a talk with her.  Culture is really strong and the 'white is perfection' perception is a common idea in India, yes it's sad.  But.. in a general point of view our whole consumer society is becoming more and more artificial and extreme.  

We almost all seek for what our culture as shown us as the 'Ideal' sadly for us, an ideal is exactly what it says: AN IDEA.. nothing more: but nothing less.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *IDontKnowMomo* 

 
_Honestly, I give up instantly on anybody that has an opinion that only one race, shape, or standard is beautiful. 

Oh, and I didn't know women were thinner and had better skin... >:[_

 
yeah it was like an hour long conversation about weight, race,  gender and beauty. It was like trying to tell a brick wall to move, I could have stood there all night with no progress, but I eventually had to go around the wall and change the subject.


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## IDontKnowMomo (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_yeah it was like an hour long conversation about weight, race,  gender and beauty. It was like trying to tell a brick wall to move, I could have stood there all night with no progress, but I eventually had to go around the wall and change the subject._

 
Ugh, I wouldn't have been able to change the subject, I wouldn't be able to talk to her :[
It's not only one thing to have those opinions, but to say that most other people have them also? goodness.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *SakurasamaLover* 

 
_
We almost all seek for what our culture as shown us as the 'Ideal' sadly for us, an ideal is exactly what it says: AN IDEA.. nothing more: but nothing less._

 

I really love that.. well said!


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Her thoughts are typical of people who live in a country that has been colonized for a very long time.


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## spectrolite (Feb 19, 2009)

It sounds like your friend has some real self-image issues. Changing someones perceptions that they have held on to for so long would be difficult to do in the span of one conversation. That's like trying to undo years of negative programming. Learning to accept that all skin colours, all _people_ are beautiful is something she will have to do herself. Having someone like you around to reinforce it is definitely positive. Just do your best to be there for her and show her what a confident and beautiful person you are and maybe it will rub off on her


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## babycoconut (Feb 19, 2009)

This is very unfortunate, and sadly not uncommon. I know of many other cultures (my mom's for example) where this kind of thinking still is alive and kicking. And would you believe that in many of these countries, bleaching creams are too popular! These women have gorgeous brown skin that I see many try to copy here, but since it's not "white" or "delicate" its ugly. Did she ever wonder if being pure white is perfection, why are bronzers and tanning so popular here? 

Anyway,I have to say that there really isn't anything you can do with this thinking. If this is how she is brought up, you would basically need to give her a new brain transplant to change it. Best you can do is keep doing you and stay beautiful yourself.


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## iadoremac (Feb 19, 2009)

Personally i think beauty is relative. I know men that only prefer big women and cant stand skinny women, i know black men that can only date black women and black men that cant date black women. But at the end of the day whether you are a size 2 or a size 24 whether you are white black yellow whatever its all about how you see yourself and how you carry yourself and I think its a shame that some women let the world tell them how to think. I am a U.S size 6 and people still have the nerve to tell me that i am fat and some people tell me that I am too skinny, but i dont listen to what anybody says because i love myself the way i am and i think its important for every woman to do that because if you dont then who will


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## CandiGirl21 (Feb 19, 2009)

so basically, she told you in another form that she's insecure and wants to be White? Hmm...Women like this makes me cringe.


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## iadoremac (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shoegal-fr* 

 
_Her thoughts are typical of people who live in a country that has been colonized for a very long time._

 

I really dont think her thoughts have anything to do with whether or not her people have been colonized. my country was colonized for hundreds of years till the 1960's and the women in my country do not have that mentality at all. We like being black and we realise and acknowledge the fact that even if the rest of the world may not admit it but black is extremely beautiful


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *iadoremac* 

 
_I really dont think her thoughts have anything to do with whether or not her people have been colonized. my country was colonized for hundreds of years till the 1960's and the women in my country do not have that mentality at all. We like being black and we realise and acknowledge the fact that even if the rest of the world may not admit it but black is extremely beautiful_

 
Uh, i don't know what country you come from. But, colonization has a major influence on how colonized people see themselves. In india, the Victorian Era colonization was particulary known for introducing the "biological racism concept" in people's mind. Just see some works of Sir Francis Galton.
Not to mention that Indian people still suffer from castes within their own society. Some of them are degraded on a daily basis, so no surprise that they feel that the white british model is a superior goal to achieve.

Many people still suffer from having to compare themselves to the white colonization ideal. And like someone said earlier in this thread, you can find a ridiculous amount of whitening creams in these countries. This is certainly not a coincidence.

Some other countries have dealt with these issues, this is definitely not the case of India.


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## iadoremac (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shoegal-fr* 

 
_Uh, i don't know what country you come from. But, colonization has a major influence on how colonized people see themselves. In india, the Victorian Era colonization was particulary known for introducing the "biological racism concept" in people's mind. Just see some works of Sir Francis Galton.
Not to mention that Indian people still suffer from castes within their own society. Some of them are degraded on a daily basis, so no surprise that they feel that the white british model is a superior goal to achieve.

Many people still suffer from having to compare themselves to the white colonization ideal. And like someone said earlier in this thread, you can find a ridiculous amount of whitening creams in these countries. This is certainly not a coincidence.

Some other countries have dealt with these issues, this is definitely not the case of India._

 


Hmm ok ...........did not know you were just referring to india i thought you were making a general comment about all colonised countries.
Even though we do have bleaching creams in my country its used by people that are already light skinned and dont want to get darker although i am aware of some dark skinned women who use it but its generally frowned upon


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *iadoremac* 

 
_Hmm ok ...........did not know you were just referring to india i thought you were making a general comment about all colonised countries.
Even though we do have bleaching creams in my country its used by people that are already light skinned and dont want to get darker although i am aware of some dark skinned women who use it but its generally frowned upon_

 
I was making a general statement that these thoughts are typical of long time colonized people, i was not saying that all long time colonized people necessarily think that way...
Plus, there are many different types of colonization.
From the simple economical pillage to the real cultural occupation which is way more perverse...


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## ginger9 (Feb 19, 2009)

I can understand individual preferences but she took it to another level by dictating that HER ideal was THE ideal. I mean that is just sad and ignorant. 

I have my own perferences for men but that doesn't mean it's the universal truth y'know? It's a shame she doesn't even think her own race is her "ideal". The whole concept of an ideal is in itself so limiting. I mean I love to appreciate people of all race and cultures, that's what beauty means to me - diversity! We should totally celebrate that.


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ginger9* 

 
_I can understand individual preferences but she took it to another level by dictating that HER ideal was THE ideal. I mean that is just sad and ignorant. 

I have my own perferences for men but that doesn't mean it's the universal truth y'know? It's a shame she doesn't even think her own race is comparable to her "ideal". The whole concept of an ideal is in itself so limiting. I mean I love to appreciate people of all race and cultures, that's what beauty means to me - diversity! We should totally celebrate that._

 
Exactly, and the fact that someone thinks that his ideal is an ABSOLUTE ideal is a symptom of an extremely perverse brainwashing which has induced the idea that she isn't even worth to look at as someone who is beautiful in her own way.


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## iadoremac (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ginger9* 

 
_I can understand individual preferences but she took it to another level by dictating that HER ideal was THE ideal. I mean that is just sad and ignorant. 

I have my own perferences for men but that doesn't mean it's the universal truth y'know? It's a shame she doesn't even think her own race is comparable to her "ideal". The whole concept of an ideal is in itself so limiting. I mean I love to appreciate people of all race and cultures, that's what beauty means to me - diversity! We should totally celebrate that._

 






 I agree,


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## Shadowy Lady (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shoegal-fr* 

 
_Uh, i don't know what country you come from. But, colonization has a major influence on how colonized people see themselves. In india, the Victorian Era colonization was particulary known for introducing the "biological racism concept" in people's mind. Just see some works of Sir Francis Galton.
Not to mention that Indian people still suffer from castes within their own society. Some of them are degraded on a daily basis, so no surprise that they feel that the white british model is a superior goal to achieve.

Many people still suffer from having to compare themselves to the white colonization ideal. And like someone said earlier in this thread, you can find a ridiculous amount of whitening creams in these countries. This is certainly not a coincidence.

Some other countries have dealt with these issues, this is definitely not the case of India._

 
I agree with everything you said. I have many Indian friends and unfortunately, a lot of them do feel this way, I kinda blame their parents though (especially their moms) who carried the wrong ideas about beauty with them from the previous generations. I posted this in another thread, but one of these friends' mom used to tell me that I should go to India as I'm fair and lovely and there will be tones of men who'd wanna marry me :/ (mind you, I'm not fair, more like an NW30, but it's a relative term)

Anyway, beauty is relative. I personally never thought of a race to be more beautiful than other. But when someone has ideas like that implemented in them it's hard to change their minds


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shadowy Lady* 

 
_I agree with everything you said. I have many Indian friends and unfortunately, a lot of them do feel this way, I kinda blame their parents though (especially their moms) who carried the wrong ideas about beauty with them from the previous generations. I posted this in another thread, but one of these friends' mom used to tell me that I should go to India as I'm fair and lovely and there will be tones of men who'd wanna marry me :/ (mind you, I'm not fair, more like an NW30, but it's a relative term)

Anyway, beauty is relative. I personally never thought of a race to be more beautiful than other. But when someone has ideas like that implemented in them it's hard to change their minds_

 
It's so sad. Actually, i think these kind of thoughts are a form of the Stockholm Syndrome. These people identify themselves to an ideal that completely implies the negation of their own identity and thus history.
That's really dangerous.
And i'm so sick that medias keep playing this game, whenever it glorifies the white and/or anorexic beauty ideal.
And those beauty brands that sell those very dangerous whitening creams and just make plenty of money on a racist prejudice... really sick!


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

When she told me that men set the standard of beauty and determine what is attractive I was take back. She said that all men only like skinny women, who are "delicate and look like birds". For one, a lot of heterosexual men like more curvaceous figures that's why so much of the media that sexually exploits woman depicts bigger chests and butts. So many ladies are getting implants all over the body to achieve this. I think the idea that anorexic is beautiful comes from the Fashion world that is dominated by women and gay men, so to say that all heterosexual men like and perpetuate this fraglie body type is so ignorant. 
And about the whole skin tissue issue Yeah I don't think she understands that tanning is soo popular in our culture to get a more sunkissed and darker skin tone. 

I just think people can do whatever to themselves if it makes them feel good about themselves, but at some point you have to stop looking around you for a sense of beauty and look at yourself.


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## Simply Elegant (Feb 19, 2009)

There are still a lot of bleaching creams available in the US but only in certain neighbourhoods, those in which the most minorities live. It's pretty sad but still true even though tanning and bronzing products are still huge.

Sort of OT, but on Oprah they were talking about beauty in different cultures and in one place, the bigger the woman the better, the more stretch marks she had, the more attractive she was and the more times she was divorced, the sexier men thought she was because it would mean that more men had desired her. 

In any case, in every culture, there is going to someone trying to change thier looks to fit in with what they think everyone who is beautiful is like because the women in that place I just described are force fed as children to become overweight if they're not naturally like that.


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

It is really sad....That people cannot accept, love and embrace the skin they are in. Society and Culture has played a major role...But as we get older and experience life and different cultures...we should surely see the differences as to what we were told or taught versus "How it is"  Beauty has no color....If we seek Perfection we will die trying to acheive that...Just not possible. What one person sees as perfect another sees as flawed...It is important that we please ourselves... I don't think there is anything you can say to this lady until she changes her way of thinking....and looks like she is pretty much set in her idea of what "Beauty" is.


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## MissResha (Feb 19, 2009)

kim kardashian is one sexy bitch. good lord. i love her. 


i prefer thicker girls, but thats just me.


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

As my dh says...Only a Dog wants a Bone.....

Look skinny girls throw shit at my dh...he's the one that says it !!


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## ShugAvery2001 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_so my question is... How do I get this girl to see that she is beautiful as a woman of color? That she is beautiful as a woman? That she is beautiful as a human being?_

 
*You won't be able to get her to see anything. Self esteem starts with SELF....
it' has to come from within her 
There are women in this world who are totally Gorge that think they're ugly
And there are world that wouldn't be considered good looking but have the self confidence of 3 Kenya Moores

People have to find beauty within themselves... regardless to what society or others think



*


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissResha* 

 
_kim kardashian is one sexy bitch. good lord. i love her. 


i prefer thicker girls, but thats just me._

 

I agree!! And I think Kim is natural. Last night I was having a conversation with this guy and he was like she's got implants in her butt. And i was like no honey have you seen her hips? If you just get implants that is not going to give you a bigger hip width, plus I've seen some unflattering pictures of some of her cellulite. But honestly who doesn't have a dimple randomly. She is the epitome of beauty to me! Except I wish her eyebrows weren't so close together in the middle haha but that's just me.


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

I think Kim K is pretty...But, Honestly I have never really seen what all the hype was about with her....Just IMO.....I honestly think Beyonce has the IT body when it comes to thicker girls....
I do however like KK's makeup!


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

beyonce is beautiful too obviously... But Idk B's thighs look like they could kill a small child... but she def has a banging body! I can't lie! And Beyonce's face is flawless!!


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## MissResha (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_As my dh says...Only a Dog wants a Bone.....

Look skinny girls throw shit at my dh...he's the one that says it !!_

 


my bf says that all the time too LMAO


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

haha... we need a whole another thread for the battle of the booties! haha.... But I'm just glad there are girls with "normal" bodies who can give the average woman something to look to. B/c few ppl can be a healthy size 2


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## MissResha (Feb 19, 2009)

speakin of which, i saw a pic of Lindsay Lohan recently...she looks like Skeletor from He-Man. fucking gross. she needs a CC's of bacon grease STAT


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissResha* 

 
_speakin of which, i saw a pic of Lindsay Lohan recently...she looks like Skeletor from He-Man. fucking gross. *she needs a CC's of bacon grease *STAT_

 

hahah so true!! She was such a beautiful girl around the time of Mean Girls... she needs to bring back her healthy curves... Its so sad to see Hollywood got to her.


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## LoveMU (Feb 19, 2009)

Honestly, I must speak out that there's a little too much hating on skinny girls here.  Skinny girls are glorified at times by the media, and as women we are generally pushed in that direction, but seriously, some people are naturally skinny.  That's not their fault, just like it's not a woman's fault if she's naturally curvy.  When I was a kid, guys made fun of girls who were flat chested.  i guess those girls should just crawl under a hole and die because they don't have big boobs right?  Some guys like em big, and some guys like em small, no need to make other people feel bad just because one fool made an ignorant comment.

Also, you can have a very small figure but still have curves.  Just because you're thin doesn't mean that you don't have boobs or an ass.  It's such a misconception that you are "bony" if you're thin.  You can be a size 2 and still have a bigger ass or bigger boobs, it all depends on how you're proportioned.  

And as for the Indian girl, she is wrong, but there are many conceptions of beauty, not only varying by culture, but also by individual.  I have different tastes from all my friends, and I actually don't have a type because I appreciate many different looks in people.  That's not to say you're "racist" if you don't prefer a certain type, because everyone has their own personal preferences.


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

Honestly, I must say I don;t see all the hating on skinny girls in this thread you are referring to? I think the thread was about why the girl didn't think she was beautiful, bodywise and skin color wise ..No one said skinny girls were not attractive, curvy or didn't have a figure....Unless I missed those posts...

What I did say is what My dh's preference is...which has nothing to do with how a thin person looks..

Men can like what they like that does not make them fools...it makes them have a preference..which they are entitled to...Now calling someone a fool...that is hating!


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LoveMU* 

 
_Honestly, *I must speak out that there's a little too much hating on skinny girls here.  Skinny girls are glorified at times by the media, and as women we are generally pushed in that direction, but seriously, some people are naturally skinny*.  That's not their fault, just like it's not a woman's fault if she's naturally curvy.  When I was a kid, guys made fun of girls who were flat chested.  i guess those girls should just crawl under a hole and die because they don't have big boobs right?  Some guys like em big, and some guys like em small, no need to make other people feel bad just because one fool made an ignorant comment.

Also, you can have a very small figure but still have curves.  Just because you're thin doesn't mean that you don't have boobs or an ass.  It's such a misconception that you are "bony" if you're thin.  You can be a size 2 and still have a bigger ass or bigger boobs, it all depends on how you're proportioned.  

And as for the Indian girl, she is wrong, but there are many conceptions of beauty, not only varying by culture, but also by individual.  I have different tastes from all my friends, and I actually don't have a type because I appreciate many different looks in people.  That's not to say you're "racist" if you don't prefer a certain type, because everyone has their own personal preferences._

 
I don't hate skinny girls. I just think people need to embrace the body they are given and be healthy for their body type. I have a friend who weighs 100 lbs and ppl accuse her of being anorexic... which is far from the truth! She can eat me under the table! I just think we need to start embracing what we have and stop thinking the opposite of what you have is beautiful. What we are all saying is that beauty is subjective and no one body type or physical feature is more beautiful than the other. But I just find it sad when ppl are puting their health at risk to look like some unattaiable idea of beauty.. or when someone puts down another person because they don't fit into their idea of beauty. 

We did sorta go off onto a tangent about Kim Kardashian and Beyonce.. but just b/c I love their body shape does not mean that say a Kate Moss or a Chanel Iman aren't beautiful.


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## fash10nista (Feb 19, 2009)

Unfortunately, having lived in my family's country of origin, I have noticed that the "white is perfection" mentality is prevalent throughout, whether you're in the metropolis or countryside. Bleaching creams/lotions and homemade bleaching remedies are everywhere and I don't think it will lessen in time.

People try to mimic what they are not because society dictates what is considered beautiful....If that's the case, civilization can take a flying leap...I'd rather go back to the Stone Age...


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## LoveMU (Feb 19, 2009)

Hmmm, maybe, "Only a dog wants a bone"
Saying lindsay lohan looks like a skeletor
Commenting on people with "normal" bodies (those that aren't skinny)

I don't know, maybe these are just made in jest, but saying that men don't want women who are thin is saying the exact same thing as men don't want women who are big.


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_ 
We did sorta go off onto a tangent about Kim Kardashian and Beyonce.. but just b/c I love their body shape does not mean that say a Kate Moss or a Chanel Iman aren't beautiful._

 

Ditto! This is about the Indian Girl and her thoughts ...Not a personal attack on anyone on this forum


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LoveMU* 

 
_Hmmm, maybe, "Only a dog wants a bone"
Saying lindsay lohan looks like a skeletor
Commenting on people with "normal" bodies (those that aren't skinny)

I don't know, maybe these are just made in jest, but saying that men don't want women who are thin is saying the exact same thing as men don't want women who are big._

 

That is a quote that my husband says.....Do you consider youself a Bone or just thin? If you consider yourself a bone then I guess you would find that hating...But that you will have to take up with him like I stated...He is entilted to his preference....even if you don;t like it.

and as far as the Lindsay Lohan comment..I honestly did not read that one...But I do skip around ...

This is only personal if you make it so... 

I am thinner myself...But I don't consider myself a bone....My husband does prfer thin women....However he does not prefer BONES.....


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LoveMU* 

 
_Hmmm, maybe, *"Only a dog wants a bone"*
Saying lindsay lohan looks like a skeletor
Commenting on people with "normal" bodies (those that aren't skinny)

I don't know, maybe these are just made in jest, but saying that men don't want women who are thin is saying the exact same thing as men don't want women who are big._

 
That was just one woman's husbands opinion about the dogs wanting bones..

And lindsay Lohan does look like a skeletor ... if you look where she came from her body is not healthy. Its obvious to the casual observer that she is having some diet and health issues. 

Plus I said Normal in quotes and pointed out that FEW people can be a healthy size two. I didn't say all Size 2's were unhealthy. I was just making the point that more often than not women in the world have meat on their bones. The average weight of women of the world is probably closer to 170 then 123. That's all I'm saying. Our society has an idea of beauty that is often unattaiable in a healthy fashion for 99% of the population. So when I say "normal" I mean to say average. Not to say that skinnier or bigger girls are abnormal and wrong, just that they are on the ends of the spectrum. It's basic math and statistics to know there every set of numbers has a mean, median, and mode.


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## Curly1908 (Feb 19, 2009)

.....


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## M.A.C. head. (Feb 19, 2009)

This topic is double posted. I just spent 15 minutes like "WTF happened to my post? Did I get banned?" LOL This was my response from the other copy:

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *M.A.C. head.* 

 
_It's not your job *shrugs* And personally, I wouldn't call her a friend. 

A lot of cultures have been brain washed by the Euro-centric "standard of beauty. Ex: The comments your friend made are very popular in India, as evidenced by the mass production and consumption of fairness [bleaching] creams; these products are also bought by a number of African Americans. In the African American community, skin color can be an "issue" as well, like darker skinned women being viewed as not beautiful or them receiving compliments like "You're really pretty...for a dark girl..." 

The truth is, well in my opinion, that some people are just NEVER satisfied. The Euro-centric standards are still there in a lot of people's minds, but these days just look at how many people go to a plastic surgeon and ask for "JLo's butt" or "Beyonce's ass". Or what about all these people asking for "Kim K's make up" and spending hours and hundreds in the tanning salon? 

It goes both, three, four, an infinite amount of ways because generally, people want what they can't have, unless you can somehow pay to get it LOL It's sad that your friend thinks that way. But ignorance is bliss for some. Maybe she's just insecure and she wants everyone else to be insecure too._


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## MissResha (Feb 19, 2009)

i didnt read all of the last few comments but i'll say this.

i'm pretty sick of everybody wanting to be thin as paper JUST because some celebrity looks that way. if you're skinny then congrats to you. i dont care if you're skinny or if you're fat. but if you're skinny because you're starving yourself to fit into someone elses mold of "beauty", then thats sad. i'll take Lindsay Lolo again. Mean Girls, she was a very healthy weight. Now, she does look like skeletor. sorry but its true. She looks unhealthy. just like any obese chick would look unhealthy. all those Hollywood chicks, starving themselves, taking hella laxatives...and for what? because someone told them that being a size 2 was fat. thats bullshit. i was talkin to my co-worker about this just yesterday about how white women really have it bad in hollywierd because, lets take Jessica Simpson...she recently gained some weight and looked fine. but people started calling her a fat ass and now she's talkin about losing the weight again....all because someone with twisted beauty standards told her she was too fat. thats some bullshit. there's a difference between being thin/skinny, and being a bag of bones. so i dont think anyone here is hating on skinny girls...i think the issue is the BONE thin, ribs showing shit. 

i have my own personal preferences...i like curvy women. i dont think skinny chicks are ugly. i dont think fat chicks are ugly. but i PREFER a nice medium. again, thats just MY preference. 

everybody has their own definition of beauty when it comes to bodies, but i dont buy into that hollywood shit of you must be a size -9 to be beautiful. PFFT. fuck that.


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## Sexy Sadie (Feb 19, 2009)

So what is beauty all about?
Why are we so fascinated about it? 

If we take a closer look, "beautyful people (whereever they come from) share often the same features; big eyes, small noses, huge mouth in small faces. 

...........


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

I have seen some big nose, big head pretty women...just say'n


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## MissResha (Feb 19, 2009)

^^LMFAO yup! i've seen some big foreheaded big eared tiny-tittied hotties too! whatever is appealing to YOUR eye, is what you consider beautiful. i dont believe in ONE standard of beauty. what i find beautiful, you may not, and vice versa.


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## LoveMU (Feb 19, 2009)

Well, I already said that everyone has their own preference.  I don't know why you're saying that I am personally offended, as I didn't say anything about myself in my posts.  I just recognize that some girls I know and have known are very thin and then people pick on them for it or make jokes about them being anorexic or what not.  It's hurtful in the same way as making fun of a big girl.

I def don't think people should starve themselves, and that is a bad thing.  Women of all different sizes are beautiful.  it's crazy that Jessica Simpson gets a lot of flack, she is hot either way.  I have two friends that are super skinny (and they're not white either, one is Black and the other one is Latina) and I think they are beautiful, like seriously, no one would argue with me.  but I also think that a lot of my curvy friends are super hot as well, and i love Kim K and Beyone's body as well.  I just know that some girls can't gain weight, and I'm looking out for those girls.  no offense intended towards anyone here.


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

^^ We understand....and I agree....Beauty comes in all sizes...I personally wish I could eat and never gain weight, I would so be in HEAVEN...but for now I have to eat and work it off...


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## fash10nista (Feb 19, 2009)

Not to be cliche' or anything but "Beauty is only skin deep."...It really is a kind of discrimination when people, society, culture, Hollywood/Bollywood, etc. get so hung up on physical beauty or what is defined as 'beautiful'...


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_That is a quote that my husband says.....Do you consider youself a Bone or just thin? If you consider yourself a bone then I guess you would find that hating...But that you will have to take up with him like I stated...He is entilted to his preference....even if you don;t like it.

and as far as the Lindsay Lohan comment..I honestly did not read that one...But I do skip around ...

This is only personal if you make it so... 

I am thinner myself...But I don't consider myself a bone....My husband does prfer thin women....However he does not prefer BONES....._

 
Exactly Tish!! As always!
Anyway, there is an obvious difference between skinny and anorexic. "Bone" and "lindsay lohan" are referring to the anorexic thing. But if skinny and anoxeric are the same in your mind, well that's just too bad.


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## Tashona Helena (Feb 19, 2009)

I'm skinny and I'm definetely not the biggest fan of my body.  People think I'm crazy because I am constantly trying to gain weight...but when it comes down to it I'll never be happy unless I have a body with curves.  So I of course think the skinny women vs. big women thing is crazy, especially when you see someone like me that yeah, ok I think being skinny is ok, but I"m not happy with myself as a "skinny woman".  But i would NEVER say anything to put anyone down on either end of the spectrum, because when it all comes down to it, it's your own personal perception of what you thing is beautiful, not what's "wrong or right".  I too envy women like Kim's body, I hate reading comments on gossip sites calling her fat.


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

^^^ Wanna trade???? We can just switch heads!!


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Tashona Heléna* 

 
_I'm skinny and I'm definetely not the biggest fan of my body.  People think I'm crazy because I am constantly trying to gain weight...but when it comes down to it I'll never be happy unless I have a body with curves.  So I of course think the skinny women vs. big women thing is crazy, especially when you see someone like me that yeah, ok I think being skinny is ok, but I"m not happy with myself as a "skinny woman".  But i would NEVER say anything to put anyone down on either end of the spectrum, because when it all comes down to it, it's your own personal perception of what you thing is beautiful, not what's "wrong or right".  I too envy women like Kim's body, I hate reading comments on gossip sites calling her fat._

 

Child, I say work your skinny. You can wear stuff that would look obscene on me. everybody type has a perk.


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## carandru (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Tashona Heléna* 

 
_I'm skinny and I'm definetely not the biggest fan of my body.  People think I'm crazy because I am constantly trying to gain weight...but when it comes down to it I'll never be happy unless I have a body with curves.  So I of course think the skinny women vs. big women thing is crazy, especially when you see someone like me that yeah, ok I think being skinny is ok, but I"m not happy with myself as a "skinny woman".  But i would NEVER say anything to put anyone down on either end of the spectrum, because when it all comes down to it, it's your own personal perception of what you thing is beautiful, not what's "wrong or right".  I too envy women like Kim's body, I hate reading comments on gossip sites calling her fat._

 
I can definitely relate b/c I too fall into the "skinny" category and remember wishing so badly that I had some curves.  After being constantly compared to my sister, who has gigantic boobs, I wanted curves even more.  My boobs came in college so that made it, but when they did I didn't want them anymore!  Lol, I was like wtf am I supposed to do w/ this?  None of my bras fit anymore ugh!!

But, that desire was a direct result of what is seen as beautiful within your culture.  As an AA woman, I often felt my thin frame wasn't attractive to black men.  Most of my friends are guys, so I knew all about their fascination w/ big butts, hips, and breast which I was definitely and still am lacking.  It didn't help that I often got comments from other AA's like "You have a white girl's body" (said w/ a hint of disdain as well).  So, of course, I'm like I want a black girl's body!!!  Then, I realized that I had no idea what either a white girl's or black girl's body looked like in reality.  I've seen so many variations in all races how could I or anyone else really pin a body type down like that?   Clearly, you can't. 

Now, I pretty much love my body. I really got over it when I started really hanging out w/ other races and saw that everyone has their own definition of beauty. So, for my skinny no ass having  body, I've learned what does and doesn't work for it. Of course there are things I would change, but those are one that I can change through exercise.

But yea, my hips can get a wee bit bigger any day now just to balance out my top half, lol. 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_^^^ Wanna trade???? We can just switch heads!!_


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *carandru* 

 
_But, that desire was a direct result of what is seen as beautiful within your culture.* As an AA woman*, I often felt my thin frame wasn't attractive to black men. Most of my friends are guys, so I knew all about their fascination w/ big butts, hips, and breast which I was definitely and still am lacking. It didn't help that I often got comments *from other AA's* like "You have a white girl's body" (said w/ a hint of disdain as well). So, of course, I'm like I want a black girl's body!!! Then, I realized that I had no idea what either a white girl's or black girl's body looked like in reality. I've seen so many variations in all races how could I or anyone else really pin a body type down like that? Clearly, you can't. _

 
Geezzzzzzzzz, i've just figured out that AA = Afro American, i was like "what the hell being in Alcoholics Anonymous has anything to do with this"... lol. I feel so ashamed.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

hahhaha Oh my that was fun!!! I'm an AA!!


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_hahhaha Oh my that was fun!!! I'm an AA!!_

 
I know, right! I'm still laughing at myself and my parents are passing by my room with the look "oh my god, she is going insane".


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

I'm not even gonna admit I didn't know at first either.....


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

But Tish, you have to admit it! As an AA, it's the first step, remember what we talked about at the last meeting?? lol


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

Yeah But remember I left when they started talking about people admitting sh*t....I'm taking my habits to the grave!! Ya'll was too nosey!!!


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

hahah.. ya'll are wayyy to funny! haha


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## Shoegal-fr (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_Yeah But remember I left when they started talking about people admitting sh*t....I'm taking my habits to the grave!! Ya'll was too nosey!!!_

 
Oh well, crap, i left just after you and ended in an Irish pub, singing Irish folk songs... bad, really really bad!


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## MissResha (Feb 19, 2009)

lmaooo


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

hahaha!


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## carandru (Feb 19, 2009)

yall are freaking hilarious!!  Tish, you can at least admit it to us. Then, just switch the topic to makeup and we'll forget instantly.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *carandru* 

 
_yall are freaking hilarious!!  Tish, you can at least admit it to us. Then, just switch the topic to makeup and we'll forget instantly._

 

Oh no... I won't forget that easily! haha


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

I'll share with my other **cough*** Thin girls on another thread.....I need to get off this plump thread..I am far too fine for ya'll....yep I can dream!


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## DirtyPlum (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shoegal-fr* 

 
_Her thoughts are typical of people who live in a country that has been colonized for a very long time._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shoegal-fr* 

 
_Uh, i don't know what country you come from. But, colonization has a major influence on how colonized people see themselves. In india, the Victorian Era colonization was particulary known for introducing the "biological racism concept" in people's mind. Just see some works of Sir Francis Galton.
Not to mention that Indian people still suffer from castes within their own society. Some of them are degraded on a daily basis, so no surprise that they feel that the white british model is a superior goal to achieve.

Many people still suffer from having to compare themselves to the white colonization ideal. And like someone said earlier in this thread, you can find a ridiculous amount of whitening creams in these countries. This is certainly not a coincidence.

Some other countries have dealt with these issues, this is definitely not the case of India._

 
I find these comments quite presumptuous.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_I'll share with my other **cough*** Thin girls on another thread.....I need to get off this plump thread..I am far too fine for ya'll....yep I can dream!_

 

HAHA... I think it's safe to say that we all are fine... you ain't the only one.


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## DirtyPlum (Feb 19, 2009)

A similar thread:

http://www.specktra.net/forum/f179/d...er-skin-72956/


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_HAHA... I think it's safe to say that we all are fine... you ain't the only one._

 

Oh please...*cough" Ya'll know I'm the ONLY one!! Here we go admitiing stuff again you AA's


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

Off topic...do any of you keep getting a cache message on the threads


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## BellaItalia1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_As my dh says...Only a Dog wants a Bone.....

Look skinny girls throw shit at my dh...he's the one that says it !!_

 
lolol
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Trish,i do agree! Well my oh,works on the building site and as most blokes they notice any women who pass by etc,he says that the general opinion is that the skinny women are like stick insects and there's nothing to grab at 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Now  skinnier ladies don't be mad but that's the british building site men for you !They do prefer women with curves and not the ironing board"Posh"lookalike...bod 
Glory to the curves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



personally i adore Salma Hayek and Monica Belucci type of woman ,they both   great bod !!Whats more they are not afraid to celebrate their womanly curves!
To the original poster I actually feel sorry for your mate !To feel like this must be very uncomfortable but you just cannot educate some people no matter what and that itself is sad but true!


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## BellaItalia1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_As my dh says...Only a Dog wants a Bone.....

Look skinny girls throw shit at my dh...he's the one that says it !!_

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_Off topic...do any of you keep getting a cache message on the threads_

 
Yeah me Tish !!!


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

Ok what is that about...it keeps saying Link Broken....


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *BellaItalia1969* 

 
_lolol
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Trish,i do agree! Well my oh,works on the building site and as most blokes they notice any women who pass by etc,he says that the general opinion is that the skinny women are like stick insects and there's nothing to grab at 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Now  skinnier ladies don't be mad but that's the british building site men for you !They do prefer women with curves and not the ironing board"Posh"lookalike...bod 
Glory to the curves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



personally i adore *Salma Hayek and Monica Belucci* type of woman ,they both   great bod !!Whats more they are not afraid to celebrate their womanly curves!
To the original poster I actually feel sorry for your mate !To feel like this must be very uncomfortable but you just cannot educate some people no matter what and that itself is sad but true!_

 
Have to agree they are beautiful women! Glory to the curves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haha that's priceless.. yeah I feel sorry for my "friend" too.. we really were not friends I just had one class with her in HS and she reconnected with me over facebook after 2 years. It just breaks me heart... but hopefully she will surround herself with people who make her feel beautiful and not have it be a self fulfilling prophacey. B/c if you interact with people who constantly tell you that you are not beautiful then you start to carry yourself in that way.


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## Simply Elegant (Feb 19, 2009)

The link works for me. It might be your computer or just a random glitch that's fixed now?


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

No not this thread...I mean I am having the problem with the entire forum...I have cleared my cache again...I'll see if that helps...Thanks


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## pharmchick60 (Feb 19, 2009)

I'm a size 0/2 and a lot of my friends and co-workers talk about how lucky I am because I'm always eating, but I don't really gain weight.  I don't really see myself as "lucky".  I'm satisfied with the way that I look (with the exception of lack of boobage), but sometimes it's hard for me to find professional clothing in my size.  I'm thirty something with a job that requires me to dress professional, and it gets kinda expensive taking clothes to the tailor just to get them to fit.  I'm a stick with a butt and not on purpose.


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## BellaItalia1969 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_Have to agree they are beautiful women! Glory to the curves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 haha that's priceless.. yeah I feel sorry for my "friend" too.. we really were not friends I just had one class with her in HS and she reconnected with me over facebook after 2 years. It just breaks me heart... but hopefully she will surround herself with people who make her feel beautiful and not have it be a self fulfilling prophacey. B/c if you interact with people who constantly tell you that you are not beautiful then you start to carry yourself in that way._

 
Lol too true
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thing is hun that there are some women who are naturally thin,who maybe would like to put some more weight on and vice versa.. We must embrace all different sizes etc what i don't approve of is when you open a newspaper ( I live in UK) such as Daily Mail ,Sun etc and you see photo of say Posh and in my OH,opinion she looks like she could do with good "english GUTBUSTER brekkie"  which incl:2 sausages,2 rashers of bacon,baked beanz,2 fried tomatoes, 2 eggs,mushrooms, 2 hash browns,fried slice of bread, round of toast!!The dress she wore to BRITS,was hanging off her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have an 18 year old who says she would love a body like POSH!! (my daughter is size 8 dunno whats that in US sizes),i always have to repeat to her that she is fine as she is and there's no need for her not too eat or to aspire to look like Posh!I do blame the media as we are being bombarded with these images of "yummy ,skinny mummy" type who looks so effortlessly slim,elegant etc!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




real life is not like this especially when you are woken up at 2 am in the morning to comfort your crying child who has not been feelin well and decided to vomit all over you


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

I think your daughter is an American size four... I wear a 8-10 and I ordered a dress off Asos.com in a UK size 12 and fit me perfectly. Anyway... Its so important to tell girls size doesnt matter... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




OH that could be taken in a dirty way.. haha Size does matter in some respects! haha


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## lovely333 (Feb 19, 2009)

Your friend has some serious issues. Is she married does she even have a man?


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## Vixxan (Feb 19, 2009)

I just passed your friends theory by my husband and he laughed.   He said that men don't think that deep at least he doesn't.  He said that skinny, fat, white, black are not the important issues.  What he wants to know about a woman is can she cook(yes), is she crazy(hell yes), will she kill him in sleep if he pisses her off (yes)and does her daddy own a lot of guns(yes)?

He said he doesn't know any man that thinks like that and that's the dumbest thing he ever heard. He also said if and when you friend gets a little wisdom she will realize that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

I feel sorry for her. I can't imagine living my life always trying to fit someone else definition of pretty.  Sad


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## TISH1124 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Vixxan* 

 
_I just passed your friends theory by my husband and he laughed. He said that men don't think that deep at least he doesn't. He said that skinny, fat, white, black are not the important issues. What he wants to know about a woman is can she cook(yes), is she crazy(hell yes), will she kill him in sleep if he pisses her off (yes)and does her daddy own a lot of guns(yes)?

He said he doesn't know any man that thinks like that and that's the dumbest thing he ever heard. He also said if and when you friend gets a little wisdom she will realize that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

I feel sorry for her. I can't imagine living my life always trying to fit someone else definition of pretty. Sad_

 
You know he said....and is she a beast underneath the sheets...And I cleaned that up!!!


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## Vixxan (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_You know he said....and is she a beast underneath the sheets...And I cleaned that up!!!_

 
ROFL

Yes he did but I couldn't clean it up as well as you did. And.... yes.  I don't think he's been here for 20 years because he likes my cookin'.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lovely333* 

 
_Your friend has some serious issues. Is she married does she even have a man?_

 
She is 18.... (2 years younger than I am)... She has a boyfriend but I don't know him.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Vixxan* 

 
_I just passed your friends theory by my husband and he laughed.   He said that men don't think that deep at least he doesn't.  He said that skinny, fat, white, black are not the important issues.  What he wants to know about a woman is can she cook(yes), is she crazy(hell yes), will she kill him in sleep if he pisses her off (yes)and does her daddy own a lot of guns(yes)?

He said he doesn't know any man that thinks like that and that's the dumbest thing he ever heard. He also said if and when you friend gets a little wisdom she will realize that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

I feel sorry for her. I can't imagine living my life always trying to fit someone else definition of pretty.  Sad_

 

I love your hubby!! haha He sounds so down to earth and funny! You got a keeper!


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_You know he said....and is she a beast underneath the sheets...And I cleaned that up!!!_

 
hahaha You have truly entertained me this whole day! hahah


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## TISH1124 (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Vixxan* 

 
_ROFL

Yes he did but I couldn't clean it up as well as you did. And.... yes. I don't think he's been here for 20 years because he likes my cookin'._

 
WHHHattttt...you better stop cooking then hell!! Go throw all them damn pots and pans away TONIGHT!!! Hefty bag them immediatley!! Or throw a skillet under the covers with you!!


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## Vixxan (Feb 20, 2009)

LMAO

sounds like your husband hit the jackpot. "Or throw a skillet under the covers with you!!" that sounds like a good idea. lol


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## Beauty Mark (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

 
so my question is... How do I get this girl to see that she is beautiful as a woman of color? That she is beautiful as a woman? That she is beautiful as a human being?  
 
You cannot. She has to figure that one out on her own. I feel sorry that she can't see that she can be just as beautiful as anyone else.

There are tons of non-white, not thin women who men love. Men as a whole have many preferences. Most men I know like a healthy body, be it thin or much curvier. And men as whole don't seem to prefer one race over another. 

If men are the ones who mostly own the major fashion labels, magazines, and media outlets, she may somewhat have a point that men do set the standard of beauty. But that's only a fraction of a percent of the men, and God knows that they don't account for everyone, much like the male equivalent doesn't account for my taste most of the time.

I think your friend needs to look deep inside herself why she thinks this way and maybe seek help if she seriously feels this way all the time.


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## luvsic (Feb 20, 2009)

*this is long. but when are my posts ever short?*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissResha* 

 
_speakin of which, i saw a pic of Lindsay Lohan recently...she looks like Skeletor from He-Man. fucking gross. she needs a CC's of bacon grease STAT_

 
GIRL THAT SERIOUSLY MADE ME 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




But I'm going to kill the humor on this thread for a second and just be a party pooper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all of those comments really made me laugh though lol...you guys are so funny!

I would also like to mention, Lindsay was not naturally that that skinny. Before she had curves, and she looked healthy and beautiful to me. She became that way gradually, after mean girls I noticed. Although I can only speculate, I do feel like she had a lot of media pressure to become extremely thin. So, just in my opinion, Lindsay wanted to lose the weight, and I feel like she went overboard. Same with hillary duff, she was cute and healthy when she was young, and when she saw a tabloid of her saying "DUFF PUFFS UP" she started working hard to melt off the pounds...but now, I think she looks too thin, unhealthily thin. 

It's one thing when a girl is naturally that skinny, but it's another when you see someone become that weight by choice. 

ok, anyway, onto my thoughts about this whole topic...I would just like to add my two cents as an Asian girl growing up with a white beauty standard she held for herself...I know, throw tomatoes at me if you will. But I know I am wrong and I'm working to very hard change that.

A lot of what your friend said was what I used to think, but she was much more extreme about it. Deep down inside, I wanted to see beauty in every color and race, but FOR ME I always, always, always thought that being white (or at least mixed with white) was the best and prettiest, and I, as an Asian girl, would never be the best cause I don't have a drop of white in me. I grew up having mostly white friends, living in a predominantly white neighborhood, watching TV with mostly white characters, reading magazines that were directed towards (mostly) white girls. Thus, I grew up feeling, I guess, out of place. When I started looking at movie stars from Asia, hoping to see girls who looked at least a little more like me, I was still bombarded by images of women who held their image up to a white beauty standard. Sad, isn't it? 





















I am sad that I still feel this way at times. I wanted a nose job for so long. It is an internal struggle I deal with almost every day...I wish I could see the beauty in diversity, but I feel like when I look at girls of different colors sometimes, I still find the ones who look more white prettier. What a twisted mentality I have developed, haven't I? I always felt sad that I couldn't look prettier (which to me, meant "more white"..and when I say this, I mostly mean my face.) I thought that was why I could never attract a guy. Little did I know that had little to do with anything, and most of my problems were in the way I thought, not necessarily the way I looked (not saying i'm a knock-out, but I'm just saying now I want to feel like I AM worthy and not think that I can't land a bf cause I'm Asian!) 

As for what guys prefer...it all boils down to preference. My dad told me this, actually, and I think his words were very wise. Even if white was "perfection", who's to say that all guys only want "perfect" girls? Every guy has a different perception on what THEY find beautiful, and the same goes with us - we have different preferences in what we are physically attracted to in a mate as well. I won't go any deeper than this because I don't want to open the can of worms known as my thoughts on the subject, but I still firmly believe this simple point: Not all guys only like one type of girl, be it white girls, black girls, asian girls, etc. (unless they have fetishes. But let's not get into that.)

POINT: It is sad your friend, and I, feel this way. There is beauty in every color, and we all should be able to see that, not hold ourselves up to one beauty standard and say the rest are completely inferior. If the world continues to think this way, it'll be messed up for a while.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 20, 2009)

luvsic... I really want to give you a good reponse to what you said... but i'm way too tried.. but 2morrow I will put my 2 cents in about growing up in an all white neighborhood as a person of color. I'm AA (ahahah I'm still laughing at that from like 2 pages ago) and I grew up in an all white SOUTHERN community. That was something.. 

But for now I just want to say thank all of you for this open dialog about race, weight, beauty, and culture! It's nice to hear everyone's perspective! Thank you all!


----------



## luvsic (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_luvsic... I really want to give you a good reponse to what you said... but i'm way too tried.. but 2morrow I will put my 2 cents in about growing up in an all white neighborhood as a person of color. I'm AA (ahahah I'm still laughing at that from like 2 pages ago) and I grew up in an all white SOUTHERN community. That was something.. 

But for now I just want to say thank all of you for this open dialog about race, weight, beauty, and culture! It's nice to hear everyone's perspective! Thank you all!_

 
OK girl...I'll look out for your response tomorrow! Get some rest!


----------



## M.A.C. head. (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_luvsic... I really want to give you a good reponse to what you said... but i'm way too tried.. but 2morrow I will put my 2 cents in about growing up in an all white neighborhood as a person of color. I'm AA (ahahah I'm still laughing at that from like 2 pages ago) and I grew up in an all white SOUTHERN community. That was something.. 

But for now I just want to say thank all of you for this open dialog about race, weight, beauty, and culture! It's nice to hear everyone's perspective! Thank you all!_

 
This should be interesting.

I was raised in polar communities, black/white, poverty level/middle to upper class. It all made for quite a life adventure. 

I'll chime in tomorrow as well.


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## luvsic (Feb 20, 2009)

deleted..


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## BellaItalia1969 (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_I think your daughter is an American size four... I wear a 8-10 and I ordered a dress off Asos.com in a UK size 12 and fit me perfectly. Anyway... Its so important to tell girls size doesnt matter... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




OH that could be taken in a dirty way.. haha Size does matter in some respects! haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Awww hun we love Asos.com!My girls buy clothes from there often 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i love Nine West shoes, ( pricey but gorge) and being half italian shoes are my PASSION <SWOON>


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## BellaItalia1969 (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_You know he said....and is she a beast underneath the sheets...And I cleaned that up!!!_

 
Lolol Trish !!Ermm I agree what healthy concept you have... but my reply to that comment is unprintable  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in fact it sounds a bit like one of the lines from little Kim songs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Beauty is such a unique thing it appears in many forms and there's a saying "
Different strokes for different folks" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



You must *love yourself* before you *love* another  and with that i rest my case
Ciao to all


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## GlamYOURUs (Feb 20, 2009)

Ugh I hate my people sometimes. 

But I kind of don't blame them. Its where they come from, how they were brought up by their families, the media, and their Fair & Lovely bleaching cream commercials are pure hilarity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its sad that we can have such ignorant ideals but thats the way the world turns. People come in all colors, shapes and sizes, there is no perfect woman or man. It also boils down to personal preferences.


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## DirtyPlum (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *GlamYOURUs* 

 
_Ugh I hate my people sometimes. 

But I kind of don't blame them. Its where they come from, how they were brought up by their families, the media, and their Fair & Lovely bleaching cream commercials are pure hilarity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Its sad that we can have such ignorant ideals but thats the way the world turns. People come in all colors, shapes and sizes, there is no perfect woman or man. It also boils down to personal preferences._

 





Its the same when fair ppl say "I look so pale and pasty, you have such lovely warm skin, I hate my skintone, I cant wear colours like that" - who said so???


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 20, 2009)

OKay LuvSic, and whoever else cares. I grew up in a small suburban town near Stone Mountain in Georgia. So for all y'all who don't know Stone Mountain is a recreational park that has an emphasis on nature. The most notable aspect of this park is well the granite moutain. And the most notable aspect of this mountain are the carvings of 3 Confederate soldiers from the American Civil War: Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and Stone Wall Jackson. The land Stone Moutain lays upon is owned by the Klu Klux Klan, and is just "rented" out to the state of Georgia for public use. In fact up until recently one of the stipulation of the lease was to allow for yearly Klan rallies at the moutain. 

Anyway my town was filled of Affluent middle and upper class caucasian Americans. It was an exclusive area in which North of Stone Mountain were whites and South of Stone Mountain were blacks. The unofficial color divider was HWY 78. My brother who is now 24, was the first black child to go to the local elementary school which was built in 1966. When we moved into the neighbor there was serious White Flight in which many families moved out. We were just one family...College educated Upper middled class family of four we were like the Huxtables no threat to anyone. We lived in neighborhood of retired folks many of which had grown up in these parts and were former Klans members. 

So my childhood was not a tramatic experience of racism. In fact it was quite the opposite. I was called Nigger once in my life, but that didnt affect me. My family made a great impression on the neighborhood. Both me and my brother were gifted students in school. My mother was the president of the PTA. We were upstanding citizens. We lived in the neighborhood for 18 and half years.. I am now 20. This was my home. Even our former klan neighbors are now considered really great family friends. My mother and some of my neighbors a couple of years ago had an honest and open talk about how our family changed their misconceptions of blacks and they appologized for snubbing us for the first couple of years we lived there. 

Anyway.. So my experience in a all white neighborhood to some extented has tainted my relationship with other blacks. I never feel threated by the beauty of white girls because I was always the exotic one. No one else looked like me and many of my friends equate black culture as pop culture so I was instantly the authority on all things cool. I was a very popular child and confident child. 

The times when my insecurities about my beauty as an African American came about when more blacks moved into our community within the last 5 years.. (literally as a result of our undefeated Football and other sports teams. The coaches were actually "unethically" recruiting black atheltics to our school. Pretty much exploitation) The legacy of our sports program can be seen by Jeff Francoeur the former HS football and baseball star turned Atlanta Braves player.  Another pull for blacks and other minorites into our area were our top rated public schools which far exceded the education received at black metro atlanta schools. 

Anyway my insecruites as a black woman came when I was confronted with other beautiful black women. Before my being exotic automatically put me in a league of my own and I didn't compete with the other [white] girls, but when I was confronted with other black girls I was finially being compared. This time the mixed girls (most notably the 1/2 black 1/2 japanese girl) and the other fairer skinned black girls were getting more attention for how pretty their hair was and how slender their nose was. They were the ones being voted on the homecoming court instead of me. Even now that I'm in college I find it hard to befriend other black girls for fear they will be the prettier "token" black girl. And just interacting with my race as a whole since I grew up in a white area, I "talk like a white girl". I may not be as in touch with things steortypically applied as "black culture". I even find myself being more attracted to white men than I do black men, not b/c I find white men so much better, it's just what I am used to seeing on a daily basis. When I was in school the boys all the girls had crushes on were white and so I didn't really have an altarnative when I was formulating my standards of attraction. All my exes have been white men and now that I have ventured out of my all white community and am in college most of the guys I'm being hit on by are black. And one of my suitors who is a dark skinned black man thinks I won't date him b/c he's black. And there might be some underlying truth to that because I won't date him b/c I am not attracted to him. He doesn't give me the butterfly in my tummy feeling like my Italian ex did. I just tend to be attracted to more caucasian features in men, but that is certainly not to say I won't date a fine black brother.. Lord knows I have seen quite a bit of them in Atlanta! Also as crazy as it seems culturally I feel like I relate better to white people given that I grew up around them and had basically the same childhood experiences and privilages.

Anyway.. I have just been yacking away.. Gave you a whole history of Stone mountain. haha


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## TISH1124 (Feb 20, 2009)

^^^ Girl tell your story this is Black History Month....Just j/k 

That was very enlightening!! Now we know all about you and where you are coming from when you speak....Thanks for writing this it really was good to read and very interesting


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_^^^ Girl tell your story this is Black History Month....Just j/k 

That was very enlightening!! Now we know all about you and where you are coming from when you speak....Thanks for writing this it really was good to read and very interesting_

 

ha thanks! It was really therapeutic to write... I'm a double major in psychology and sociology so I totally understand how environment and childhood experiences affect our perception of beauty and reality. I know I am not immune from racist thoughts and prejudices... we all are a lil racist haha. We all are the result of our cultural biases.


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## nazneen372 (Feb 20, 2009)

Wow, this is such an interesting thread.

I've had a lot of experience of the South Asian preference for fair skin. I'm Bangladeshi and an NC45 but my mum is really light-skinned. All my life members of our community (and my extended family!) have commented on the difference, and sometimes people have outright said "how can you two be related?" In Bengali the word most commonly used to "beautiful" (sundor) is actually the same word for "fair" - so technically you can only be beautiful if you're fair. This really sucked as a child - I was just convinced I wasn't, and couldn't ever be, beautiful.

I can list instances and instances of people telling me I'd be pretty if I wasn't so dark, or the old lady who wanted to know why I was still so dark even though I lived in England (as if I could somehow absorb its whiteness!) but it just makes me feel disappointed in my community. I have since learnt to love my skin colour, and myself, but I feel like there's such a way to go before dark skinned women in South Asia start to be Bollywood heroines, for example, and it makes me sad to think of other girls like my younger self, who are made to feel unpretty because of this stupid prejudice. 

It seems like the original poster's friend has internalised all this stuff to a seriously unhealthy degree, perhaps once she is a bit older she will start to feel happier in her own skin. She'd really think I was the bottom of the heap as I'm both dark-skinned and seriously curvy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I might come back and post again tomorrow but I'm really tired, but I wanted to say thanks to everyone who has posted for all the contributions and stories - real food for thought.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nazneen372* 

 
_Wow, this is such an interesting thread.

I've had a lot of experience of the South Asian preference for fair skin. I'm Bangladeshi and an NC45 but my mum is really light-skinned. All my life members of our community (and my extended family!) have commented on the difference, and sometimes people have outright said "how can you two be related?" In Bengali the word most commonly used to "beautiful" (sundor) is actually the same word for "fair" - so technically you can only be beautiful if you're fair. This really sucked as a child - I was just convinced I wasn't, and couldn't ever be, beautiful.

I can list instances and instances of people telling me I'd be pretty if I wasn't so dark, or *the old lady who wanted to know why I was still so dark even though I lived in England (as if I could somehow absorb its whiteness!)* but it just makes me feel disappointed in my community. I have since learnt to love my skin colour, and myself, but I feel like there's such a way to go before dark skinned women in South Asia start to be Bollywood heroines, for example, and it makes me sad to think of other girls like my younger self, who are made to feel unpretty because of this stupid prejudice. 

It seems like the original poster's friend has internalised all this stuff to a seriously unhealthy degree, perhaps once she is a bit older she will start to feel happier in her own skin. She'd really think I was the bottom of the heap as I'm both dark-skinned and seriously curvy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I might come back and post again tomorrow but I'm really tired, but I wanted to say thanks to everyone who has posted for all the contributions and stories - real food for thought._

 

Haha.. If you could absorb a places whiteness I would be albino coming from where I was raised! 

and I'm really surprised my thread took off as much as it did.. it just proves we need to HUG each other as women we all are placed to unfair standards!


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## TISH1124 (Feb 20, 2009)




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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_





















_

 
It's always better if it's animated!


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## luvsic (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_OKay LuvSic, and whoever else cares. I grew up in a small suburban town near Stone Mountain in Georgia. So for all y'all who don't know Stone Mountain is a recreational park that has an emphasis on nature. The most notable aspect of this park is well the granite moutain. And the most notable aspect of this mountain are the carvings of 3 Confederate soldiers from the American Civil War: Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and Stone Wall Jackson. The land Stone Moutain lays upon is owned by the Klu Klux Klan, and is just "rented" out to the state of Georgia for public use. In fact up until recently one of the stipulation of the lease was to allow for yearly Klan rallies at the moutain. 

Anyway my town was filled of Affluent middle and upper class caucasian Americans. It was an exclusive area in which North of Stone Mountain were whites and South of Stone Mountain were blacks. The unofficial color divider was HWY 78. My brother who is now 24, was the first black child to go to the local elementary school which was built in 1966. When we moved into the neighbor there was serious White Flight in which many families moved out. We were just one family...College educated Upper middled class family of four we were like the Huxtables no threat to anyone. We lived in neighborhood of retired folks many of which had grown up in these parts and were former Klans members. 

So my childhood was not a tramatic experience of racism. In fact it was quite the opposite. I was called Nigger once in my life, but that didnt affect me. My family made a great impression on the neighborhood. Both me and my brother were gifted students in school. My mother was the president of the PTA. We were upstanding citizens. We lived in the neighborhood for 18 and half years.. I am now 20. This was my home. Even our former klan neighbors are now considered really great family friends. My mother and some of my neighbors a couple of years ago had an honest and open talk about how our family changed their misconceptions of blacks and they appologized for snubbing us for the first couple of years we lived there. 

Anyway.. So my experience in a all white neighborhood to some extented has tainted my relationship with other blacks. I never feel threated by the beauty of white girls because I was always the exotic one. No one else looked like me and many of my friends equate black culture as pop culture so I was instantly the authority on all things cool. I was a very popular child and confident child. 

The times when my insecurities about my beauty as an African American came about when more blacks moved into our community within the last 5 years.. (literally as a result of our undefeated Football and other sports teams. The coaches were actually "unethically" recruiting black atheltics to our school. Pretty much exploitation) The legacy of our sports program can be seen by Jeff Francoeur the former HS football and baseball star turned Atlanta Braves player.  Another pull for blacks and other minorites into our area were our top rated public schools which far exceded the education received at black metro atlanta schools. 

Anyway my insecruites as a black woman came when I was confronted with other beautiful black women. Before my being exotic automatically put me in a league of my own and I didn't compete with the other [white] girls, but when I was confronted with other black girls I was finially being compared. This time the mixed girls (most notably the 1/2 black 1/2 japanese girl) and the other fairer skinned black girls were getting more attention for how pretty their hair was and how slender their nose was. They were the ones being voted on the homecoming court instead of me. Even now that I'm in college I find it hard to befriend other black girls for fear they will be the prettier "token" black girl. And just interacting with my race as a whole since I grew up in a white area, I "talk like a white girl". I may not be as in touch with things steortypically applied as "black culture". I even find myself being more attracted to white men than I do black men, not b/c I find white men so much better, it's just what I am used to seeing on a daily basis. When I was in school the boys all the girls had crushes on were white and so I didn't really have an altarnative when I was formulating my standards of attraction. All my exes have been white men and now that I have ventured out of my all white community and am in college most of the guys I'm being hit on by are black. And one of my suitors who is a dark skinned black man thinks I won't date him b/c he's black. And there might be some underlying truth to that because I won't date him b/c I am not attracted to him. He doesn't give me the butterfly in my tummy feeling like my Italian ex did. I just tend to be attracted to more caucasian features in men, but that is certainly not to say I won't date a fine black brother.. Lord knows I have seen quite a bit of them in Atlanta! Also as crazy as it seems culturally I feel like I relate better to white people given that I grew up around them and had basically the same childhood experiences and privilages.

Anyway.. I have just been yacking away.. Gave you a whole history of Stone mountain. haha_

 
Wow, thanks for sharing your story....it was really interesting to hear about this..and 

As for me, I think I am kind of like you - I was never called racist names in my life, really, I lived in Michigan until I was 10 and race there never seemed to be relevant to anything..when I came down to the South, I never really encountered that much racism either, except maybe in the sorority thing, but that wasn't even outright/direct racism. I am mostly attracted to white men too, like you, because I have grown up around mostly white people all of my life...I mean, not to say I'll never like an Asian man, but most of the guys I've gone on dates before have been white. My sister always told me that cute white guys will only like white girls, and not an Asian girl. That really hurt me deep down, and made me not only angry, but I developed a lot of self hatred for myself after she said that. 

I guess you can say I feel a little torn between my culture and American culture...my parents are quite westernized now but still hold onto Chinese traditions and values a lot. So, although I had mostly white friends, I still didn't feel 100% white-washed, because my parents very much held onto our Chinese culture. I was confused for a lot of my life and resented being Asian because it made me different, and in my eyes, a bad way. On the contrary, I was pretty unpopular at my school, there were other Asians, but we were mostly known for just being "smart kids" and nothing more, really. And I was always shy and pretty insecure. The transition to college was not smooth at all, and I found myself completely lost, especially with all of this new exposure to so many Asian kids.  

But it is interesting/cool how you never felt like you had to conform to white beauty standards...cause I definitely did growing up, and it killed me. Anyway thanks again for sharing your story...


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 20, 2009)

No problem for sharing my story... Even though I never felt like I had to conform to white standards of beauty  I did resent other African American girls who did because to other's they were deemed more beautiful.. I just hated the competition.


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## cupcake_x (Feb 24, 2009)

That's a really unfortunate story.. Although you're never really gonna convince her otherwise. I've noticed the skinniness is really popular in North and South Asia. I go to a Chinese restaurant and the woman who works there can't be over 100 pounds- and she says she's fat!

I see how your friend must feel, because the Western culture seems to stress you have to be 95-100 pounds with a C-D bra cup size with blonde hair to be considered "beautiful" is certainly hard. Of course, not everyone here thinks that, might just be the part of the country I'm living in, but that's just my general experience.

I'm the only younger Latina around here, and I get so many "Uh, wow.. Your butt is REALLY huge..." or "Oh wow, your skintone is really crazy."

I say eff it. I don't care if people think my thighs are a little too big, or if I'm too short. As much a cliche as it is, the best thing about someone is self-confidence.


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 24, 2009)

yes we should all say EFF IT!


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## cupcake_x (Feb 25, 2009)

Agreed- that's what I learned to do!


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## Lapis (Feb 26, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_so my question is... How do I get this girl to see that she is beautiful as a woman of color? That she is beautiful as a woman? That she is beautiful as a human being?_

 
well I haven't read this whole thread but I think you don't get her to see this, it's a realization she must come to on her own her beauty, her self worth, her draw that a man would pick her above all others.

As the anti idea of the perfect woman, fat, black and nappy, I didn't have a man settle for me, and truthfully if that is how she thinks how can she ever be happy with a partner always thinking that there is a "perfect" woman who is his ideal and he wants more?


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## ThePerfectScore (Feb 26, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Lapis* 

 
_well I haven't read this whole thread but I think you don't get her to see this, it's a realization she must come to on her own her beauty, her self worth, her draw that a man would pick her above all others.

As the anti idea of the perfect woman, fat, black and nappy, I didn't have a man settle for me, and truthfully if that is how she thinks how can she ever be happy with a partner always thinking that there is a "perfect" woman who is his ideal and he wants more?_

 
Haha this thread has exploded so reading it all would take a while... but everyone has told me the same thing...it's on her to see the truth.


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## Belini (Mar 2, 2009)

I used to think like this girl but I got over it but sometimes the insecurity comes back especially when I am feeling down about myself. When I was younger I would ask guys out and I would get the following comments:

"Sorry you're too dark"
"You're not blonde"
" I only go out with fair girls"
" I find brown eyes and black hair boring"

and thats just to name a few. Now that I am older and i see women around me pay money to tan or sunbake to make themselves darker, I wonder if men still think like this. I have a friend who is very light skinned and when we used to go out, she would always get asked out. I'd always get the wing man. Anyway I'm working on it, I'm alot better than I used to be thats for sure. But I had to do it on my own. So I started eating better, exercising and looking after myself mentally and physically and I attracted the most amazing man who loves me for ME!


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## ThePerfectScore (Mar 2, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Belini* 

 
_I used to think like this girl but I got over it but sometimes the insecurity comes back especially when I am feeling down about myself. When I was younger I would ask guys out and I would get the following comments:

"Sorry you're too dark"
"You're not blonde"
" I only go out with fair girls"
" I find brown eyes and black hair boring"

and thats just to name a few. Now that I am older and i see women around me pay money to tan or sunbake to make themselves darker, I wonder if men still think like this. I have a friend who is very light skinned and when we used to go out, she would always get asked out. I'd always get the wing man. Anyway I'm working on it, I'm alot better than I used to be thats for sure. But I had to do it on my own. So I started eating better, exercising and looking after myself mentally and physically and* I attracted the most amazing man who loves me for ME!*_

 
that's what I'm looking for!!!! The italian guy I dated, I swear he had a black fetish and just wanted me to fulfill his sexual fantasies. Sure we had some good times out of the bedroom, but he never put in the effort to communicate or truly get to know me as a person. After our two year stand (A one night stand that lasted way too long--which sums up they dynamics of our relationship) I finially can accept the fact that to him my physical attributes, his lust and my young naivety were the only things keeping our relationship together. So It's not true that men are only attracted to white girls. But I need a man who's desire for me goes beyond what I look like and the fact that I'm black.


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## iadoremac (Mar 2, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_that's what I'm looking for!!!! The italian guy I dated, I swear he had a black fetish and just wanted me to fulfill his sexual fantasies. Sure we had some good times out of the bedroom, but he never put in the effort to communicate or truly get to know me as a person. After our two year stand (A one night stand that lasted way too long--which sums up they dynamics of our relationship) I finially can accept the fact that to him my physical attributes, his lust and my young naivety were the only things keeping our relationship together. So It's not true that men are only attracted to white girls. But I need a man who's desire for me goes beyond what I look like and the fact that I'm black._

 

I second that..............Its hard to find a man thats interested in me as a person and not my looks


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## ThePerfectScore (Mar 2, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *iadoremac* 

 
_I second that..............Its hard to find a man thats interested in me as a person and not my looks_

 
Yes! Men really screw over a good thing when they have it. "So you like the way I am physically but could you please respect the person that I am and value my personality, my wit, my charm, and intelligence." I don't know what he wanted from me besides sex. He never ever acted like he cared about me or what was going on in my life. Yet I extended that courtesy to him. I genuinely loved and cared for that man regardless of what he looked like.


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## Curly1908 (Mar 2, 2009)

I think beauty is very subjective so what I think you meant is that true love is when people don't seek others' approval concerning the physical beauty of their significant other.


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## ThePerfectScore (Mar 2, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Curly1908* 

 
_I think beauty is very subjective so what I think you meant is that true love is when people don't seek others' approval concerning the physical beauty of their significant other._

 

 yes... Love is when looks don't matter. But I am sick of being the only person in a relationship that feels that way.


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## ThePerfectScore (Mar 2, 2009)




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## MissLola_1 (Mar 12, 2009)

Beauty is more than subjective, it depends of the environment, the education etc. but above all on History and culture.

In this specific case of black/white, here's my opinion.
When we used to be the dominent people (see for example, Kmt ancient "Egypt"), to be beautiful, spiritual, alive etc. equaled to be black.
For example, one of the prayer was saying something like "you are so dark that you are beautiful, you are so beautiful that you are dark".
At these times, being white was seen as awful, the color of death etc.
These ideas was kept after the dissolution of the Kemet Empire within the other African Empires /Kingdoms (i.e.Kongo kingdom, the word "black" in kikongo also means life and white represents the death).
When the African people met the white people (slavery), it has changed, the model was now the new dominant people.
Then to be white was to be beautiful, powerful, virgin etc. and dark beacame the death...every negative things.
When a people is more powerful thant other, he becomes the standars in intelligence, culture, value...and beauty.
If we were living in ancient times, your friend would have never said that.

Another thing that has an impact on our conception of beauty, the media (and our environment).
I don't know how it is in the US but here in France, you barely see Black men/women on tv.
The only you'll see are Beyoncé during the L'Oréal ads or other "African American" but very light skin-toned and of course with long straight hair.
It makes us think that to beautiful = being white or if you're black, look like Beyonce.
You must hv a very strong personnality and family/cultural backround not to be influenced by that.
I think your friend is just a victim of this propaganda, the darker you are, the uglier you are, the whiter you are, the more beautiful you are.
It's the same for Indian people, lots of women use enlightening creams to get "free" of this "horrible" dark skin and match as much as possible the standard of white people.

I think it' s the same for this story of thin/curved women.


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## chubby5734 (Mar 30, 2009)

Poor girl it seems that she will never be happy because she will always try to be some one else.


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## sharkbytes (Mar 30, 2009)

It's sad to hear that sort of thing verbalized, but unfortunately a LOT of people want what they cannot genetically have.   

I honestly don't think it's _completely_ a race/ethnicity issue, I think it's self-esteem too.  If you truly can find beauty in everyone, no matter their features or background, you will be less likely to yearn for something that you aren't.  And conversely, if you idealize one particular group or skin color or eye color, you'll always feel that you come up short since you can't change who you fundamentally are.  

It's a sad way to live, in my opinion.  Everyone should just be thankful and proud to be whatever it is that they are.


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## Ziya (Apr 5, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ThePerfectScore* 

 
_ha thanks! It was really therapeutic to write... I'm a double major in psychology and sociology so I totally understand how environment and childhood experiences affect our perception of beauty and reality. I know I am not immune from racist thoughts and prejudices... we all are a lil racist haha. We all are the result of our cultural biases._

 
OMG I am a double major in psych and soci too!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love us tehehe!


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## ThePerfectScore (Apr 6, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ziya* 

 
_OMG I am a double major in psych and soci too!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love us tehehe!_

 
YAY!!!!


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## Jackie O (Oct 12, 2009)

That is so sad, unfortunately it sounds like she is already set in her ways, there is nothing you could really teach her. Like you said, you can talk and talk and talk but it's like trying to tell a brick wall to move. Trying to convince someone like that to think differently would just be wasting your time. But I like the response you gave her anyways!


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