# R.I.P. JonBenet Ramsey



## MarieLisa_Smile (Aug 17, 2006)

What are your reaction when you hear this talented little girl name? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Did anyone watch the Behind the Scene of JonBenet Ramsey on channel 41? 
I did!


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## queenofdisaster (Aug 17, 2006)

i dont think the world will ever forget how horrible that was and if the guy they arrested had anything to do with it imo he should rot in hell.


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## Juneplum (Aug 17, 2006)

i am SO glad they finally caught the sick bastard that killed her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 wtf? how can a grown man be in love with a CHILD????????????? sick f*ck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i read his interview on yahoo this morning and it made me SICK. i hope he rots in hell for what he did to that beautiful little girl.. may her soul rest in peace now that she FINALLY has closure and this sick bastard has been found. i only wish her mother would have been alive to see this. at least she is now with her daughter...


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## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2006)

I rarely truly wish ill on someone but this man deserves the worst punishment a person could ever fear receiving, and if that is death, then so be it.
There IS no rehabilitation for child sex offenders. There never has been, nor will there ever be.
He's taking up my valuable oxygen and I hope he burns.


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## Lady_MAC (Aug 17, 2006)

Yes, sad..but can the media please focus it's attention on someone who's NOT a blonde haired, blue eyed girl? Doubt it. There are a lot of cases out there that are equally as tragic, and the perp. is still at large, yet they receive no media coverage.


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## pumpkincat210 (Aug 17, 2006)

This makes me so sad.  My four year old daughter saw her in her pagent outfits and she wanted them.  I can't imagine how horrible it would be to lose a child.   Finally some justice for her and her family though.


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## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Lady_MAC* 
_Yes, sad..but can the media please focus it's attention on someone who's NOT a blonde haired, blue eyed girl? Doubt it. There are a lot of cases out there that are equally as tragic, and the perp. is still at large, yet they receive no media coverage._

 
A large part of the reason the media attention was focused was that she was a pageant girl but a fair bit of it was also because of the astounding lack of evidence and serious suspects regarding the case, and from what I understand it was rather brutal.

ANY child who dies in this manner deserves to have their killer found and punished to the fullest extent of the law, and I'm fairly certain that the Ramseys would have gladly traded every ounce of publicity and media scrutiny they've received for the past decade for their daughter's healthy and happy life.


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## Beauty Mark (Aug 17, 2006)

There's one thing for certain: this man is deeply disturbed. I don't know if he should or shouldn't get the death penalty or what kind of judgment we should make about him; too few details have been released, in my opinion. 

I think Lady_Mac brings up a great point about the media's treatment of Jonbenet & Elizabeth Smart vs. who knows how many other children out there. I'm sure race and money played a factor. I don't believe because she was a pageant child that her life is worth more than another child's. I hope the Ramseys didn't want all of that attention, but I don't know them. In any matter, I think it is sad that the public isn't aware of other tragedies like this. The perp could be caught and if it were a kidnapping, maybe the child would stand a chance of being saved.

Mods, would you please move this thread to another forum? I don't really think it qualifies as Entertainment.


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## IslandGirl77 (Aug 17, 2006)

Am I the only person that feels there is something fishy about that guy. I saw him speaking on the news this morning, and just felt like he was...well I did feel he was crazy. But, there is just something about it, I can't pinpoint at the moment, that seems odd about it.


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## Coco_Hailey (Aug 17, 2006)

yeah I heard the police arrested a suspect, I think he was in Thailand when they caught him...wonder what he was doing there...anyway how the media exposed this story must have done terrible damage on the family, it's really sad.


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## MacVirgin (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Coco_Hailey* 
_yeah I heard the police arrested a suspect, I think he was in Thailand when they caught him...wonder what he was doing there...anyway how the media exposed this story must have done terrible damage on the family, it's really sad._

 
Thailand is known as the place for child prostitution 





 ... those sick mtf's!


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## JULIA (Aug 17, 2006)

It's really sad that her mother passed away in June. I've heard rumours that the police had talked to JonBenet's parents about the idea that he could be involved before Pasty died, but she was never able to find out the truth. I could never imagine how one feels when they're mourning the loss of their daughter, a child who was MURDERED, and they're suddenly being "blammed". Ugh, I'm glad he was caught.


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## Coco_Hailey (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MacVirgin* 
_Thailand is known as the place for child prostitution 





 ... those sick mtf's!_

 
oh yeah I know about that, I wasn't asking seriously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



yeah sad but true, thailand is well know for that
sick world


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## Raerae (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Lady_MAC* 
_Yes, sad..but can the media please focus it's attention on someone who's NOT a blonde haired, blue eyed girl? Doubt it. There are a lot of cases out there that are equally as tragic, and the perp. is still at large, yet they receive no media coverage._

 
Nancy Grace does media coverage for missing girls of all shades and colors.


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## JULIA (Aug 17, 2006)

I've never heard of Nacy Grace. It's cool that she's covering these kinds of cases, but what good does it do if the stories aren't available to the public?


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## Beauty Mark (Aug 17, 2006)

If you haven't looked at the news recently, this guy's story is starting to look shady, as in not true. His ex-wife is claiming he was home on Christmas (and they lived much too far for him to commit this crime.) I find his demeanor odd, as well as the brief q&a he had with the reporters. How did she die "accidentally" (his words) with those kind of injuries?

He definitely appears to have a history of sexual things with kids, but it's hard to say if he's guilty. If he did it, he's a mentally sick person. If he didn't do it, he's a mentally sick person.


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## Raerae (Aug 18, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *JULIA* 
_I've never heard of Nacy Grace. It's cool that she's covering these kinds of cases, but what good does it do if the stories aren't available to the public?_

 
She's on mon-friday on CNN Headline news, so she is national.  Her coverage is like 99% about missing women, or other things.  And she regularly has moms of all races getting air time to help being notice to their missing children.


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## VeronikaJ (Aug 18, 2006)

Can someone post a link to where I can get more info on this story? I have not heard about the new info on this case and would like to know the full story. Thanks in advance


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2006)

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14399340/?GT1=8404


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## User34 (Aug 18, 2006)

I think anyone who does any sort of harm like this to any child deserves to sit and get get abused in jail for the rest of their f-ing lives.
It's a shame her mother never got to see justice while alive.Thank goodness he was caught. Now only about a million more sick perverts in this world to go.


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2006)

Quote:

  BOULDER, Colo. - For a moment, it seemed the decade-old mystery surrounding the slaying of a child beauty queen had been solved. But authorities Thursday cautioned against rushing to judge the schoolteacher who made a stunning confession that he killed JonBenet Ramsey.

For now, the only public evidence against John Mark Karr is his own words. And questions have already been raised about the details of his story, including whether he drugged the 6-year-old girl, sexually assaulted her or was even in Colorado at the time of the slaying.

Those questions led some to wonder whether Karr was the answer to the long-unsolved slaying or a disturbed wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case.

“We should all heed the poignant advice of John Ramsey,” Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy, quoting the little girl’s father. “Do not jump to conclusions, do not rush to judgment, do not speculate. Let the justice system take its course.”

Paraded before a raucous crush of reporters in Bangkok, Thailand, the sullen Karr told how he loved JonBenet, was with her when she died but that her death was an accident. And while vague on the details — “it would take several hours” — he answered flatly when asked if he was innocent: “No.”

“The bottom line is that they now have a confession and until and unless they can corroborate that confession with either physical evidence or strong circumstantial evidence, that’s all they have,” said Scott Robinson, a Denver attorney who has followed the case from the beginning.

Added former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman: “I have to believe they have more than this kooky confession.”

Holes in Karr’s story
Karr told investigators he drugged and sexually assaulted the little girl before accidentally killing her in her Boulder home, according to a senior Thai police officer who was briefed about the interview with U.S. authorities.

Yet JonBenet’s autopsy report found no evidence of drugs, saying her death was caused by strangulation after a beating that included a fractured skull. And while it describes vaginal injuries, it makes no conclusions about whether she was raped. Investigators later concluded there was no semen on JonBenet’s body.

According to Thai police, Karr also said he picked JonBenet up at school and took her back to her home. But the slaying came during the holiday vacation season.

Karr’s ex-wife told TV reporters she cannot defend him, then insisted he was with her in Alabama during Christmas 1996, when JonBenet’s battered body was found in the basement of her home. 

And authorities have not said whether Karr could have written the detailed ransom note found in the Ramsey home, with its demand for $118,000 (the bonus that had recently been awarded to the girl’s father, John Ramsey).

Karr’s description of the case as an accident also rang false to experts.

“It’s hard to imagine a more intentional, deliberate murder than hitting a little girl in the head so hard that she had almost a foot-long fracture in her skull and then deliberately fashioning a garrote to twist until it buries in her neck and slowly stops her breathing,” said Silverman, the former Denver prosecutor. “This has always been a case of deliberate murder.”

Lara Karr, who lived with him in Northern California, said her ex-husband spent a lot of time studying the cases of Ramsey and Polly Klaas, who was abducted from her Petaluma, Calif., home and slain in 1993. 

Even the Colorado professor who swapped four years’ worth of e-mails with Karr and brought him to the attention of prosecutors in May refused to characterize the suspect either as killer or kook.

“I don’t know that he’s guilty,” said Michael Tracey, who teaches journalism at the University of Colorado. “Obviously, I went to the district attorney for a reason, but let him have his day in court and let JonBenet have her day in court and let’s see how it plays out.”

‘Not what it seems to be’
Karr himself added to the mystery, telling The Associated Press in Bangkok that JonBenet’s death was “not what it seems to be.”

Asked what happened when JonBenet died, he said: “It would take several hours to describe that. It’s a very involved series of events that would involve a lot of time. It’s very painful for me to talk about it.”

Karr’s background includes an arrest in Petaluma in April 2001 on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography, to which he pleaded not guilty. He had not been seen by authorities after violating the terms of his release, which included avoiding child pornography and places where children congregate, such as schools, beaches and parks.

Any previous relationship between Karr and the Ramseys remained a mystery Thursday, though both have ties to suburban Atlanta. District Attorney Lacy refused to discuss the case during a brief news conference and suggested Karr’s arrest may have been forced by concern over public safety and fears the suspect might flee.

“There are circumstances that exist in any case that mandate an arrest before an investigation is complete,” Lacy said.

‘Her death was an accident’
Karr, 41, was arrested at a Bangkok apartment Wednesday, a day after he began teaching second grade at an international school, Lacy said.

Hours later, Thai authorities sat him before a crowded room of news crews. Karr stunned reporters by admitting: “I was with JonBenet when she died. Her death was an accident.”

“I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet,” Karr told the AP.

Thai police said Karr told them the slaying was only second-degree murder. One expert suggested his confession was geared to spare him a first-degree murder charge.

“He seemed convinced that what he said would make him guilty of a lesser crime,” said Sharon L. Davies, a former prosecutor at the Ohio State University law school who has studied confessions. “It’s hard to understand how that would be the case and how the physical evidence that has been at least reported about her killing would support his description of this as an accident.”

Legal experts said DNA evidence will likely be key: DNA was found beneath JonBenet’s fingernails and inside her underwear and authorities have never said whether it matches anyone in an FBI database. U.S. and Thai officials did not directly answer a question at a news conference about whether there was DNA evidence connecting Karr to the crime.

Karr was given a mouth-swab DNA test in Bangkok, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. The results of that test were not immediately known. Karr will be given another DNA test when he returns to the United States in the next several days, the official said.

‘Serious questions’ about the case
Karr will be taken within the week to Colorado, where he will face charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault, Ann Hurst of the Department of Homeland Security told reporters in Bangkok.

Lin Wood, the Ramsey family’s longtime attorney in Atlanta, said Karr went to great lengths to conceal his identity in e-mails to the university professor, going so far as to use a computer server in Canada.

Asked if authorities could tell whether Karr had firsthand knowledge of the murder or had just picked up information from news accounts, Wood said: “There is information about the murder that has never been publicly disclosed.” He did not elaborate.

Karr’s ex-wife was quoted by San Francisco television station KGO saying she was with her former husband in Alabama at the time of JonBenet’s killing and she does not believe he was involved in the homicide.

Denver attorney Larry Pozner, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said there were “serious questions” about the case.

“I hope we have found the murderer of JonBenet, but I have not heard the evidence that compels that conclusion,” he said.

 
Dear God.


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## Beauty Mark (Aug 18, 2006)

Crime Library has a pretty comprehensive section on the case, if you're not familiar


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## YvetteJeannine (Aug 18, 2006)

*This morning, when I read a brief account of what reporters knew at that time, I told my husband I thought something was strange about this guy. A few things he said, such as picking her up at school the day she was murdered (???)...JonBenet was murdered the day after Christmas...there was no school.  And there were a few other strange things about what he said...Who knows..maybe they were typo's, or maybe his confession got mixed up in/by the media (as things often do in high profile cases), or maybe I just read things wrong..But I really do hope this guy is the guy that did it...because it's time this little girl got justice.  Speculation hung over the family for so long, and if they didn't do it, they deserve vindication.  I just worry about the fact that there ARE nut jobs out there that will falsely confess to crimes they never committed (a guy did it in the Green River murder case before they caught Gary Ridgeway).  Why on earth someone would do that is beyond me (and anyone with a sound mind)..but there are crazies out there all over the place looking for noteriety. The police flubbed this case up so badly; so much evidence got destroyed or just never collected. I just hope this bastard in custody now is the right guy..because it's really time this case was put to rest..and so is poor little JonBenet.*


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## Lady_MAC (Aug 18, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 
_Nancy Grace does media coverage for missing girls of all shades and colors._

 
Haha. That's great, but definitely not good enough. One reporter does not equate to adequate coverage.


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## MarieLisa_Smile (Aug 18, 2006)

Here's the link from Court TV

http://www.courttv.com/news/ramsey/

and Court TV news

click

for the second link there's a lot of link you can read from.


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## mzcelaneous (Aug 18, 2006)

All I can say is finally. Finally they've caught the sick S.O.B. Finally there is some justice. Finally she will be able to fully rest in peace.


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## Lalli (Aug 18, 2006)

everytime i look at her picture i get shivers through my body.. such an innocent child looking straight at you and killed so brutally. i dont know why there are such sick people in this world. no child should have to face sexual abuse and be battered to death. makes me mad, i cant stand people who hit their wives, i cnt stand people who are too faced, and worst of all i cant stand child predators make me want to strangle them. grr.

i was checking sky news and this report came up.

Questions Over Confessions


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Lady_MAC* 
_Haha. That's great, but definitely not good enough. One reporter does not equate to adequate coverage._

 
part of that 'adequate coverage' comes also from how hard the families push for it. Getting the child's name out and doing interviews and pushing people and getting public attention. :/


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## JULIA (Aug 18, 2006)

I was watching The Daily Show lastnight and they mentioned Nancy Grace. It was so weird since we were just talking about her =S


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## Raerae (Aug 18, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Lady_MAC* 
_Haha. That's great, but definitely not good enough. One reporter does not equate to adequate coverage._

 
Always with the bleeding heart...

Considering she's about the only reporter who does constant coverage on missing/battered women , you'd think you would be a little more positive.

For every 1 Blonde hair'd blue eyed girl who gets media coverage, how many hundreds of other missing children OF * of all hair and eye colors* go un noticed, blonde hair'd blue eyed included.

What about the red heads with green eyes,  and the hazel eyed brunette's?


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2006)

Quote:

  For every 1 Blonde hair'd blue eyed girl who gets media coverage, how many hundreds of other missing children OF of all hair and eye colors go un noticed, blonde hair'd blue eyed included  
 
Exactly. For every one child (regardless of color of hair or creed or nationality or race or ethnicity or heritage or age or WHATEVER) that gets this kind of attention, countless others (also of ALL races and hair colors and eye colors) don't get the same attention...
It's a mix of variables that catches the public's attention but what has riveted this nation (and yes even the world) for so long about JBR's case is that there were NO conclusive suspects and the way that little girl died was simply brutal.


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## Raerae (Aug 18, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 
_It's a mix of variables that catches the public's attention but what has riveted this nation (and yes even the world) for so long about JBR's case is that there were NO conclusive suspects and the way that little girl died was simply brutal._

 
Nut uh, it's cuz of her hair and eye color, gosh!


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2006)

oh that's right. My bad.


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## Raerae (Aug 18, 2006)

Apology accepted.


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2006)

I make such a shitty racist. 
I don't care if someone's black, indian, white, red, orange, yellow, irish, vietnamese, chinese, japanese, hispanic, whatever....
Stupid people annoy me, equally, regardless of anything else.
I had a shirt made that said:
I don't dislike you because you're ____ race.
I dislike you because you've proven yourself to be stupid.

My mom wouldn't be seen with me when I wore it.


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## Raerae (Aug 18, 2006)

Equal Opportunity Racist huh? LOL

I'm not racist!  I hate everyone equally!


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2006)

I'm equally impatient with anyone.
I suppose hate is a strong word, but impatient is definitely correct.


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## MarieLisa_Smile (Aug 19, 2006)

*Patsy Ramsey almost met with suspect *

BOULDER, Colo. - Only weeks before she died, police asked JonBenet Ramsey's mother if she would meet with the man now suspected in her daughter's slaying — a schoolteacher whose worshipful notes described an obsession with a 6-year-old beauty queen he called "my love, my life." 

Patsy Ramsey was willing to meet with John Mark Karr but she died from ovarian cancer in June before investigators set up a meeting, family attorney Lin Wood said Friday. And Ramsey never saw the words Karr believed she was reading because his messages were secretly being intercepted by authorities.

"He thought that he was corresponding with Patsy, but he wasn't," Wood told The Associated Press. Police in Roswell, Ga., where Ramsey spent the last days of her life, declined to say if they conducted the correspondence ruse.

Karr, 41, is in a Thailand jail awaiting deportation to face charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault. He told reporters he was with JonBenet when she died in the basement of her Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996, but that her death was an accident.

He told The Associated Press this week that he thought Patsy Ramsey had read his letters in which he "conveyed to her many things, among them that I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet."

Friday, a Thai official backed off other details he gave of Karr's story — details that raised suspicions about whether Karr was really involved or just a wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case.

Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul of the Thai immigration police initially quoted Karr as saying he had sexually assaulted the girl and given her drugs, even though the autopsy showed no drugs in the girl's body. He also told reporters before a news conference that Karr had claimed to have picked up JonBenet at her school, though her death came during the holiday break.

On Friday, Suwat confirmed to the AP his account of the sexual assault. But asked if Karr gave the girl drugs, Suwat said the suspect described the encounter with JonBenet Ramsey as "a blur."

"It may have been drugs, or it may have been something else because (Karr said) it was a blur, blur," Suwat said.

Suwat also said his statement about the girl being picked from school was based on a documentary he had seen and not the interrogation.

Other of Karr's writings also drew scrutiny Friday.

Prison guards searched the death row cell of Polly Klaas' killer after learning he may have corresponded with the suspect. No letters were found.

The Rocky Mountain News reported that Boulder prosecutors were in contact with a former classmate of Karr's because a yearbook signed by him more than 20 years ago may reveal why the ransom note left for the Ramseys was signed "S.B.T.C."

In the 1982 yearbook, Karr ended his missive with the line, "Though, deep in the future, maybe I shall be the conqueror and live in multiple peace," raising the question of whether S.B.T.C means "shall be the conqueror."

The newspaper also published excerpts of e-mails that Karr sent to University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey, who had produced several documentaries on the Ramsey case.

"JonBenet, my love, my life. I love you and shall forever love you," according to an e-mail Karr sent on Dec. 23, 2005, just before the anniversary of her death. "I pray that you can hear my voice calling out to you from my darkness — this darkness that now separates us."

The e-mail asked Tracey to visit Ramsey's former home in Boulder and read aloud the ode he called "JonBenet, My Love."

"Sometimes little girls are closer to me than with their parents or any other person in their lives. When I refer to myself as JonBenet's Closest, maybe now you understand," he wrote in an another message. 

Karr, a divorced father of three who was once detained on charges of possessing child pornography, had also once lived in the Atlanta suburbs where the Ramsey family lived before moving to Boulder. 

There is no known piece of evidence tying Karr to Colorado. Eric Yoder, an investigator for the Colorado        Department of Education, said Karr was never licensed to teach in the state and there is no record of him applying for a teaching job. 

The correspondence between Karr and Tracey was voluminous. In other e-mails, Karr said he was under federal investigation for "child murder and child molestation" in four states. 

In Washington, federal law enforcement officials said Karr's comments since his arrest have piqued their interest and they want to question him. Regarding Kerr's purported claims in e-mails that he was under federal investigation for child murder and molestation, one law enforcement official said "there is no four-state federal case" in which Karr is wanted or even suspected. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is being handled by local prosecutors in Colorado. 

In another e-mail, the newspaper reported, Karr said he sympathized with Michael Jackson, who has been accused of molesting young boys. 

"I will tell you that I can understand people like Michael Jackson and feel sympathy when he suffers as he has," Karr wrote. 

"I can relate very well to children and the way they think and feel," one Karr e-mail said. "I think you are asking if I am much a 'Peter Pan.' In many ways, the answer is yes. In other ways, I suppose it is no because I am trapped in a world that does not understand." 

Tracey refused to discuss the e-mails with reporters on Thursday and declined comment for the newspaper story. Wood, the Ramsey family attorney, suggested that authorities may have something more against Karr. 

"There have been e-mail confessions in the case before," Wood said. "John Ramsey has received e-mail confessions in the past and nobody was arrested." 

Patsy Ramsey's sister said her family was cautious, yet hopeful, about the arrest. 

"We are optimistic, but it's wait-and-see," Pamela Paugh said. "We've been patient for nine and a half years, what's a few more months?"


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