# What's the difference between constructive and non constructive criticism?



## User67 (Apr 27, 2009)

Oh & another thing Amity, calling fellow members kiss ups isn't going to make you a lot of friends around here. Just thought I would give you the heads up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






Shimmer edit:
The point of this thread is to discuss the varying manners of criticism and how they should be relayed to another member.
Don't attack each other, don't snipe each other, and don't take it personally. We're discussing what is acceptable to say and what is not, and your position and opinion is very important to the site, as it's the gauge we use for moderation/administration.
Understand the difference between CC and Non-CC, and discuss it.


----------



## User67 (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_That was so rude....If you don't have anything good to say why say anything at all..other than for attention purposes....Hope you feel good about yourself...Please post your fotd so we can judge you just as harshly. bet that won't happen!_

 
Girl, I swear I was just about to send you a PM about this!


----------



## TISH1124 (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Nyla2120* 

 
_Girl, I swear I was just about to send you a PM about this!_

 
Girl you know flat out rude and being mean bugs me to the core...CC is one thing but to be ugly for no reason...Why???


----------



## ForeverKrystal (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACLovin* 

 
_Wow.. so much hate just emanating from this post. Could you possibly be um, JEALOUS? Seriously, like Tish said..why don't you post your FOTD and lets see how your skills match up. *I can't stand people who just hide behind their computers and give non-constructive criticism and think they're the shit*. 

And BTW.. you should read up on the proper usage of you're and your so you don't come across as rude AND uneducated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mmkay? thx_

 
ITA!

OP...You look stunning!...You're have such a beautiful face! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





In regards to Amity:

What you fail to realize is that not everyone is going for a "_natural_" look...Some people like to use their makeup as form of self expression and not as a way to blend in with the crowd!  Otherwise there would be no need to vivid colors such as yellows, blues, greens, etc. in cosmetics.

Your comment was ignorant & rude.  Please sit down somewhere.


----------



## amity (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

You have gotten a lot of comments on this FOTD, and every single comment was positive. If everyone else can state their opinion, why can't I? Just because my opinion isn't an opinion that you like doesn't make it rude. Maybe if I flat out called you ugly, which I did not, then I could see why any of you people here would have a reason to try to bring me down. 

You know what, it is as fair for you to like bold makeup as it is for me to NOT like it. It doesn't make me rude. It makes me... me. Not everyone on this forum is going to love what you do. That is how life is. Get use to it. 

I am not the insecure one. Seems to me that YOU are the insecure one because you really seem to take to heart things people say. You get hundreds of positive comments but when that ONE person says they don't like it, you make a big deal about it + brag about it on the internet for attention.

I am not the insecure one. And for me to talk the talk and not walk the walk? When did I ever say I was a professional makeup artist? When did I say that I could do much better than her? I didn't. I said that I thought she was wearing too much. And that was my opinion. 

Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder and that applies for EVERYONE. You may think its nice, but I don't. Its not the end of the world, and it sure as Hell does not make me rude for stating that!


----------



## ForeverKrystal (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Amity...Point taken. 

There is nothing wrong with stating your opinions/preferences as this is a public forum however the tone of your original post was rude. 

Plain & Simple. 

There are two ways to give criticism: 
Constructive & Nonconstructive
...and I believe your original post was the latter of the two. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think most people are of the mind set...that if they don't like a FOTD or EOTD they simply don't comment & keep it moving...and if someone chooses to comment in a positive way it does not make them a suck up or a butt kisser.


----------



## nunu (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

^Agreed!


----------



## User67 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amity* 

 
_You have gotten a lot of comments on this FOTD, and every single comment was positive. If everyone else can state their opinion, why can't I? Just because my opinion isn't an opinion that you like doesn't make it rude. Maybe if I flat out called you ugly, which I did not, then I could see why any of you people here would have a reason to try to bring me down. 

You know what, it is as fair for you to like bold makeup as it is for me to NOT like it. It doesn't make me rude. It makes me... me. Not everyone on this forum is going to love what you do. That is how life is. Get use to it. 

I am not the insecure one. Seems to me that YOU are the insecure one because you really seem to take to heart things people say. You get hundreds of positive comments but when that ONE person says they don't like it, you make a big deal about it + brag about it on the internet for attention.

I am not the insecure one. And for me to talk the talk and not walk the walk? When did I ever say I was a professional makeup artist? When did I say that I could do much better than her? I didn't. I said that I thought she was wearing too much. And that was my opinion. 

Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder and that applies for EVERYONE. You may think its nice, but I don't. Its not the end of the world, and it sure as Hell does not make me rude for stating that!_

 
There is a line between constructive criticism & being flat out rude. YOU were flat out rude. If you say that you think "It's too much make-up & I could tone it down" that is constructive criticism,  when you say it just "Over all looks bad." that is being rude. I'm sorry if you don't know the difference between the two. And you weren't just rude to me, you were rude to everyone on this forum by calling them kiss ups. You were not just having an opinion, you were being mean & insulting. Everyone on this forum isn't going to love what I do, everyone I see on the street isn't going to love what I do. But, if they are flat out rude to me about it, I am going to call them out on it. You really need to learn some manners.


----------



## TISH1124 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amity* 

 
_You have gotten a lot of comments on this FOTD, and every single comment was positive. If everyone else can state their opinion, why can't I? Just because my opinion isn't an opinion that you like doesn't make it rude. Maybe if I flat out called you ugly, which I did not, then I could see why any of you people here would have a reason to try to bring me down. 

You know what, it is as fair for you to like bold makeup as it is for me to NOT like it. It doesn't make me rude. It makes me... me. Not everyone on this forum is going to love what you do. That is how life is. Get use to it. 

I am not the insecure one. Seems to me that YOU are the insecure one because you really seem to take to heart things people say. You get hundreds of positive comments but when that ONE person says they don't like it, you make a big deal about it + brag about it on the internet for attention.

I am not the insecure one. And for me to talk the talk and not walk the walk? When did I ever say I was a professional makeup artist? When did I say that I could do much better than her? I didn't. I said that I thought she was wearing too much. And that was my opinion. 

Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder and that applies for EVERYONE. You may think its nice, but I don't. Its not the end of the world, and it sure as Hell does not make me rude for stating that!_

 
You have already made your opinion known on Nyla's fotd....and 99.9% of us feel differently..I think you need to move pass this...because no one really cares what you think at this point. You don't like it...we all do....The others that didn't...did not comment...maybe you should follow their lead....As been said...PLEASE post your fotd so we can see how makeup should be applied....Maybe you can show us how to perfectly apply makeup...Until then....Keep it moving!!! 
To keep making negative comments is RUDE!! You don't like it...we get it....So what....Go view fotd's that are better to your liking and comment on those...Stick a fork in this one...it's DONE!


----------



## User67 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_You have already made your opinion known on Nyla's fotd....and 99.9% of us feel differently..I think you need to move pass this...because no one really cares what you think at this point. You don't like it...we all do....The others that didn't...did not comment...maybe you should follow their lead....As been said...PLEASE post your fotd so we can see how makeup should be applied....Maybe you can show us how to perfectly apply makeup...Until then....Keep it moving!!! 
To keep making negative comments is RUDE!! You don't like it...we get it....So what....Go view fotd's that are better to your liking and comment on those...Stick a fork in this one...it's DONE!_


----------



## TamEva Le Fay (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amity;* 
_my name is kori. im female, canadian. i've been lurking for a while, *enjoying the artistic makeup that a lot of you guys can do.* *its very inspiring*. so i tohught id join, get some extra help to improve my own. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




haha didnt mean to blable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!_

 
You'll pardon me while I've taken the liberty to point out and enbolden the _irony_ and _hypocrisy_ in your very, very first post on this forum, and hold it up against your very latest. 

You remember, I know that it's been a while! 

You know the one where you hoped people might embrace you and welcome you to the forum even though they had no idea who you were!? The one where it now appears you, actually, pretended to be the likable sort who'd really appreciated the _artistic_ side to the Art of Makeup? 

It was rather an unconditional feeling wasn't it! To be welcomed by perfect strangers?

To be rubbing elbows in the figurative sense, of course, with the a wide range of up and coming Makeup Artist just starting out to _very well_ established professional Artists in the field of Arts and Entertainment, and Fashion who make our visual experience more worthwhile every time we pay to see a movie, open a fashion magazine, or watch TV. Who take the time to share their knowledge and expertise here on this forum with us all. 

2 1/2 years is a long time, and to have posted 7 posts since then. And of those "7" generous posts in all of the 2 1/2 years that you've been a part of this "Makeup" community you decided to focus all of your thoughtless, useless, negative energy into a spitball of a response toward a thread that really...didn't need it. 

I suppose it's merely not enough for you to be reminded that there, actually, is a whole upper echelon of High Fashion Couture Makeup that isn't, _even_, about being creative or artistic. It's about being _productive_ in their field of work, it's their lifeblood...they live, eat, breath, walk, talk High Fashion Couture Clothing and Makeup.

It delights me to know that there are absolute outsiders to this world of which I speak. Mere mortal civilians have only a brief encounter with this world when they patronize a MAC store for instance. You're privy to it for only so long as you are there to enjoy what has been imparted to them from the top of their field in High Fashion with the skills they've worked hard to hone.

I'm sorry that you and the woman, who was just as _uncouth_ as you were _in the nature_ of how you expressed your opionions on this issue, haven't the imagination to understand this world. But I am relieved that there are people like you who simply don't have the stomach for it! 

Wouldn't your certain abilities to win and influence friends better be served in other threads like say: _"My Pet Peaves"_, or maybe_..."I Hate It When..."_, or even starting your very own thread that'll garnish you much praise and accolades on your individual freedom of expression, entitled: 
_"I Enjoy Pissing On The Dreams of Others, As It Gives Me Such Satisfaction To Do So, And Because I Do So...I...Am Me!"_

That always - goes over BIG! 

Common sense and decency always, always, always..._trumps_ freedom to express an opinion!

As sorry as I am that you decided to advertise to the vast majority of the Specktra community at large in one of your "seven" posts that you were, in fact, _raised by wolves; _I for one am thrilled that you decided to do so!

As you are right, we all need to be reminded that it isn't enough that we are confronted daily by difference of opionion by people we know. We, also, have to assaulted with it by people we don't know! Because life isn't fair..._and that's just the way it is!_

I have a grim feeling that you'll never know what it means to be a positive, constructive, uplifting, and inspirational being in this world because you've simply refuse to believe that other people have feelings.

I read these 2 posts of yours...and I think to myself...yes very secure. Very secure in her natural sociopathic response. 

That behavior is clearly defined in your further dispute and defense. It's futile to tell a sociopath that you hope they're never in a situation where they may need positive reenforcement and acknowledgement from other human beings of their peers. 
As they simply haven't the feelings of compassion within them to pull off such empathy and be believable...or even passable...one wonders how they even get through the day.

In the future - I wouldn't try to defend your narcissism with such gusto...it's rather unbecoming - to say nothing of the fact that it is a _dead_ giveaway. 

I don't need see a FOTD to see you for what you are. It's clear that any photo of you are no match against your very detailed opinion and your need to express it here in this thread. 

God forbid you may, genuinely, need a kind word or phrase from another feeling human being to get you through to other side of a day...you may be soarly disappointed in how silent the room gets. 

If there is one thing that you may come away with from this community is that there are other people in this world besides yourself...that's just how life is..._Get use to it!_







I have, also, taken the liberty to quote your other posts for you to read, just in case you failed to read them back to yourself after you wrote them.

I don't imagine that this was how you wanted people here to respond or express themselves to you when you decided to join Specktra!




 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amity* 

 
_You have gotten a lot of comments on this FOTD, and every single comment was positive. If everyone else can state their opinion, why can't I? Just because my opinion isn't an opinion that you like doesn't make it rude. Maybe if I flat out called you ugly, which I did not, then I could see why any of you people here would have a reason to try to bring me down. 

You know what, it is as fair for you to like bold makeup as it is for me to NOT like it. It doesn't make me rude. It makes me... me. Not everyone on this forum is going to love what you do. That is how life is. Get use to it. 

I am not the insecure one. Seems to me that YOU are the insecure one because you really seem to take to heart things people say. You get hundreds of positive comments but when that ONE person says they don't like it, you make a big deal about it + brag about it on the internet for attention.

I am not the insecure one. And for me to talk the talk and not walk the walk? When did I ever say I was a professional makeup artist? When did I say that I could do much better than her? I didn't. I said that I thought she was wearing too much. And that was my opinion. 

Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder and that applies for EVERYONE. You may think its nice, but I don't. Its not the end of the world, and it sure as Hell does not make me rude for stating that!_


----------



## TISH1124 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

^^^^ Tam Eva.....Is My hero!!! That pretty much sums it up.....We Thank you!!!


----------



## User67 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

For Tam Eva


----------



## metal_romantic (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

 *Member FOTD's* ... Non-constructive criticism is not tolerated by staff.  
 
Lol.

I think the majority of us would be proud to look like "clowns". From now on, if anyone ever calls me a clown, I will smile, clap my hands,  do a little bounce and say "awwww, really!? Thanks! You're so sweet!"
I'm really looking forward to upcoming FOTD's on werewolves, vampires, and various circus performers.
I for one would love to post a Zombie FOTD. I actually might do that, once I buy some white pancake makeup... I'm learning special FX makeup. Hehe.


----------



## rbella (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Tam Eva============


----------



## rbella (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TamEva Le Fay* 

 
_I read these 2 posts of yours...and I think to myself...yes very secure. *Very secure in her natural sociopathic response.*_

 














By far, the funniest response ever.  God, I love you!


----------



## User67 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_














By far, the funniest response ever.  God, I love you!_

 
I always wanted to ask you, where is that picture in your aviator from?


----------



## rbella (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

It's a scene from the movie "Office Space".  Gotta see it!! Best movie ever!!


----------



## Kels823 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Question (and maybe I'm in the wrong forum but since it was addressed in this thread) - 

Why is it okay for people to comment about what they like but not about what they don't like?  I can understand being upset if it's done in a rude way.  But if I were to say, 'I don't necessarily like the overall look, but your technique is great', should I keep that to myself?

I guess I don't see why everyone either has to agree or not post at all.


----------



## User67 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kels823* 

 
_Question (and maybe I'm in the wrong forum but since it was addressed in this thread) - 

Why is it okay for people to comment about what they like but not about what they don't like?  I can understand being upset if it's done in a rude way.  But if I were to say, 'I don't necessarily like the overall look, but your technique is great', should I keep that to myself?

I guess I don't see why everyone either has to agree or not post at all._

 
It's totally okay for people to comment on what they don't like, as long is it's done in a nice & not insulting way. It's called constructive criticism.


----------



## User67 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_It's a scene from the movie "Office Space".  Gotta see it!! Best movie ever!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 
Oh now I remember! LOL! That's one of my DH favorite movies!


----------



## MACLovin (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Well said, Tam Eva! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If there were a Thanks button, I'd hit it.


----------



## TISH1124 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amity* 

 
_Wow a lot of people here on this forum like to kiss up? 

*You look very fake*. You can tell you're wearing blush. You can tell you're wearing lip-liner and lipstick (cuz its diferent colors so it stands out and *looks like a coloring-book drawing*). You can tell you're eyebrows are filled in (*they look painted on*, not even filled in). Your eyeshadow is nice tho. 

Over all - *this look does remind me of a clown* too. I think the woman meant that you are wearing so much NOTICEABLE makeup that *it just looks bad over all*.




_

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kels823* 

 
_Question (and maybe I'm in the wrong forum but since it was addressed in this thread) - 

Why is it okay for people to comment about what they like but not about what they don't like? I can understand being upset if it's done in a rude way. But if I were to say, 'I don't necessarily like the overall look, but your technique is great', should I keep that to myself?

I guess I don't see why everyone either has to agree or not post at all._

 

No one has to agree to post....However the rules state NON Constructive Criticism is Not Tolerated....So therefore if you have non constructive critiques or insults ...then yes, you should skip the thread and keep it moving.... 
What Amity wrote *(highlighted)* was rude and uncalled for. Sometimes in life it's better to be Nice than nasty...so if you don't like the look why is it necessary to let the OP know you don't like it or to hurt someone's feelings in such a negative manner? Unless people enjoy hurting others....I happen to not...so I am very careful in my critique when I give it and consider how it will come across.  saying...I like your makeup technique....sounds fine....going the extra yard to say... I don't like the look, but great technique, IMO  is unnecessary, why did all that need to be added.....Unless you are trying to make a point....Not saying that you said that ...but just stating the difference in the two statements and how they come across.


----------



## rbella (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Agreed, TISH.  I think "constructive criticism" is very useful.  But there is a definite line between straight up rudeness and helpful critiquing.  The poster crossed that line.


----------



## amity (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kels823* 

 
_Question (and maybe I'm in the wrong forum but since it was addressed in this thread) - 

Why is it okay for people to comment about what they like but not about what they don't like? I can understand being upset if it's done in a rude way. But if I were to say, 'I don't necessarily like the overall look, but your technique is great', should I keep that to myself?

I guess I* don't see why everyone either has to agree or not post at all*._

 
The people on this forum have an artistic skill with makeup. For me? I have an artistic skill with drawing. 

If I had someone say,

"I don't like the way you colored in the face, it makes the person look (dead, sick, bad). I think that you shouldn't have used purple paper to draw on. I also don't like how you left some white spaces when you colored. Over all, this drawing of yours looks pretty bad."

I would take into consideration what they said -> Because it will help me improve! How will you ever improve your artistic talent when you always get GOOD comments? How will you know what to improve on, if nobody tells you what looks bad? 

If I have mascara running down my face and none of my friends tell me, and I'm walking around all day with a big black streak, that is pretty embarassing. The same concept applies to this situation. If I am wearing makeup that only takes away from my beauty rather than enhancing it, well, I would like to know!

If someone gave me constructive criticism, EVEN THO it MAY be a bit rude, I will get past the rudeness of it and try to take in what the person said... because if I use their advice, it will only make ME more talented in the end.

So before you guys go ranting and raving and talking like you've known me for who I am all my life... get past the fact that me, out of 99.9% of the people on this board don't like this woman's FOTD. I am in no way saying that she is a shitty makeup artist, I am saying that I just don't like THIS SPECIFIC work of art.

Just like sometimes people don't like certain pieces of art I do. Do I make a big deal and call them sociopaths? NO. I ask them what looks bad and then I take it from there. 

So go ahead and call me a sociopath. Say that I have no empathy. And accuse me of "pissing on the dreams of others". You have been dearly mistaken if thats who you guys think I am.


----------



## MACLovin (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

OMG amity, go away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you're poisoning this thread, seriously. uggh


----------



## TISH1124 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

There are ways to say things...and maybe you have no life or educated experience in knowing that....

If I go to the doctor.....I have Cancer and will probably die .... I do not expect to hear....

I can't help you ...you are gonna die...get over it...Treatments won't help...Too bad this has happened to you...But your friends are right ...you're gonna die. Please pay on your way out and make sure to pick out a casket soon....and be prepared to loose you hair and look a mess


I expect to hear

I am so sorry but yes you do have Cancer and the chances are we cannot treat it successfully...But please do not give up hope. I will do everything I can to make you comfortable and try and help you fight this disease. In the mean time it may be best if you start to get your plans in order in case we are unsuccessful.

You see AMITY...there is a difference between TACT and TACKY....Honestly which category do you feel your comments feel under.  Grow up and realize it is not what you say BUT how you say it.


----------



## nunu (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

I think this thread should be closed. Specktra isn't a place for personal attacks.


----------



## Kels823 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_No one has to agree to post....However the rules state NON Constructive Criticism is Not Tolerated....So therefore if you have non constructive critiques or insults ...then yes, you should skip the thread and keep it moving.... 

......*saying...I like your makeup technique....sounds fine....going the extra yard to say... I don't like the look, but great technique, IMO is unnecessary, why did all that need to be added*_

 
It's unnecessary in your opinion, but it's not against any forum rules, correct?

If I post a thread saying 'Someone said I look like [insert condescending character]  what do you think', then you respond 'I don't like the look but the technique is great' you would be answering my question, no?

I completely understand why you all are upset with the manner in which the criticism was posted.  In most social settings, the tone of that particular post was rude.

However I don't understand the consensus that we have to post kudos or keep it moving.  

Seems alil passive aggressive, IMHO.


----------



## Kels823 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_There are ways to say things...and maybe you have no life or educated experience in knowing that....

If I go to the doctor.....I have Cancer and will probably die .... I do not expect to hear....

I can't help you ...you are gonna die...get over it...Treatments won't help...Too bad this has happened to you...But your friends are right ...you're gonna die. Please pay on your way out and make sure to pick out a casket soon....and be prepared to loose you hair and look a mess


I expect to hear

I am so sorry but yes you do have Cancer and the chances are we cannot treat it successfully...But please do not give up hope. I will do everything I can to make you comfortable and try and help you fight this disease. In the mean time it may be best if you start to get your plans in order in case we are unsuccessful.

You see AMITY...there is a difference between TACT and TACKY....Honestly which category do you feel your comments feel under.  Grow up and realize it is not what you say BUT how you say it._

 
I understand your instict to defend your friend (the OP).  But can we really compare makeup application preference to cancer?


----------



## User67 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amity* 

 
_The people on this forum have an artistic skill with makeup. For me? I have an artistic skill with drawing. 

If I had someone say,

"I don't like the way you colored in the face, it makes the person look (dead, sick, bad). I think that you shouldn't have used purple paper to draw on. I also don't like how you left some white spaces when you colored. Over all, this drawing of yours looks pretty bad."

I would take into consideration what they said -> Because it will help me improve! How will you ever improve your artistic talent when you always get GOOD comments? How will you know what to improve on, if nobody tells you what looks bad? 

If I have mascara running down my face and none of my friends tell me, and I'm walking around all day with a big black streak, that is pretty embarassing. The same concept applies to this situation. If I am wearing makeup that only takes away from my beauty rather than enhancing it, well, I would like to know!

If someone gave me constructive criticism, EVEN THO it MAY be a bit rude, I will get past the rudeness of it and try to take in what the person said... because if I use their advice, it will only make ME more talented in the end.

So before you guys go ranting and raving and talking like you've known me for who I am all my life... get past the fact that me, out of 99.9% of the people on this board don't like this woman's FOTD. I am in no way saying that she is a shitty makeup artist, I am saying that I just don't like THIS SPECIFIC work of art.

Just like sometimes people don't like certain pieces of art I do. Do I make a big deal and call them sociopaths? NO. I ask them what looks bad and then I take it from there. 

So go ahead and call me a sociopath. Say that I have no empathy. And accuse me of "pissing on the dreams of others". You have been dearly mistaken if thats who you guys think I am._

 
I work as a make-up artist, so I do different looks every day. The day posted this FOTD I was doing something more dramatic. I KNOW that my lipliner was obvious, that was how I wanted it to be. I KNOW my eyebrows looked drawn on. That's because they ARE drawn on, I don't have real eyebrows. Everything you "critiqued" in the pic was done on purpose because that is how I wanted to look that day. I'm not trying to improve on the look because nothing I did was an accident, it was all done purposely. The day after this I did very soft eyes, neutral blush & matte red lips. I change it up each day & even if you see something you don't like. I'm not going to improve on it because it's all done purposely.  Someone else said they would have worn less blush, well most people would. However, I am big on blush & I wear more of it than the regular person or even MU artists. I know it looks like a lot & that is how I want it to look. I have been doing make-up for several years & I know what I like. Even if everyone doesn't agree with it. So for future reference, if you want to tell me that my eyeliner is too thick or my lipliner is too obvious. Don't bother, I already know & that's how I want it. I'm aware of everything that is going on with my face.


----------



## MACLovin (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nunu* 

 
_I think this thread should be closed. Specktra isn't a place for personal attacks._

 
I don't think its fair to Nyla to have her thread closed just because of a rude, tactless individual.. people should still be able to comment on her look if they want.

However, perhaps the debate over the way certain members conduct themselves when commenting should have its own thread if people want to defend their right to be caustic and non-constructive.  I don't see why it's so difficult to comprehend that if you're just spouting negative BS you may as well just shut it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i guess some will never learn.


----------



## User67 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kels823* 

 
_I understand your instict to defend your friend (the OP).  But can we really compare makeup application preference to cancer?_

 
I don't think she was comparing them. She was giving an example of the right way to say something negative.


----------



## TISH1124 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kels823* 

 
_I understand your instict to defend your friend (the OP). But can we really compare makeup application preference to cancer?_

 

Lets get one thing clear I have never met or talked to Nyla outside of this post...So it is not about defending a friend...it is about right from wrong...and to answer your question....This is clearly posted on the FOTD forum by the Specktra Staff 

*Share your FOTD with the lovely ladies & gents of Specktra. Note: Non-constructive criticism is not tolerated by staff.*


----------



## User67 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACLovin* 

 
_I don't think its fair to Nyla to have her thread closed just because of a rude, tactless individual.. people should still be able to comment on her look if they want.

However, perhaps the debate over the way certain members conduct themselves when commenting should have its own thread if people want to defend their right to be caustic and non-constructive.  I don't see why it's so difficult to comprehend that if you're just spouting negative BS you may as well just shut it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i guess some will never learn._

 
I totally agree.


----------



## Shimmer (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kels823* 

 
_Question (and maybe I'm in the wrong forum but since it was addressed in this thread) - 

Why is it okay for people to comment about what they like but not about what they don't like?  I can understand being upset if it's done in a rude way.  But if I were to say, 'I don't necessarily like the overall look, but your technique is great', should I keep that to myself?

I guess I don't see why everyone either has to agree or not post at all._

 
It's  perfectly okay to make suggestions like 
"I think this look would be far more flattering with a more toned down blush."
or
"Maybe next time not take the wing out so far on your liner?"
or
"It might be time for a new mascara, that one looks like it's clumping on you a little."


Those things are PERFECTLY OKAY, and if the OP takes offense to them, it's on the OP because no offense was intended, clearly.

But it's not okay to say "Jesus woman. Did you  just pick the blush palette up and rub it all over your f ace?"
or
"Hmmm. Amy Winehouse much?"
or
"Damn spiders be runnin' cross yo face!"


BIG difference. 

The first, I'm okay (as moderator) with.
The second, I'll shut that shit down as soon as I find out about it.


----------



## Kels823 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Nyla2120* 

 
_I don't think she was comparing them. She was giving an example of the right way to say something negative._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1127* 

 
_Lets get one thing clear I have never met or talked to Nyla outside of this post...So it is not about defending a friend...it is about right from wrong...and to answer your question....This is clearly posted on the FOTD forum by the Specktra Staff 

*Share your FOTD with the lovely ladies & gents of Specktra. Note: Non-constructive criticism is not tolerated by staff.*_

 
Thank you both for responding.

Maybe my posts are unclear or my verbage isn't succinct.  So I'll leave the topic alone.


----------



## Kels823 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_It's perfectly okay to make suggestions like 
"I think this look would be far more flattering with a more toned down blush."
or
"Maybe next time not take the wing out so far on your liner?"
or
"It might be time for a new mascara, that one looks like it's clumping on you a little."


Those things are PERFECTLY OKAY, and if the OP takes offense to them, it's on the OP because no offense was intended, clearly.

But it's not okay to say "Jesus woman. Did you  just pick the blush palette up and rub it all over your f ace?"
or
"Hmmm. Amy Winehouse much?"
or
"Damn spiders be runnin' cross yo face!"


BIG difference. 

The first, I'm okay (as moderator) with.
The second, I'll shut that shit down as soon as I find out about it._

 
Thanks for responding, Shimmer.


----------



## TISH1124 (Apr 29, 2009)

This seperate thread was a great idea.....

Now people who might not be aware can see how words can be encouraging and how they can be also unnecessarily harsh and intentionally hurtful!!! 

Once spoken the long term damage or hurt  can never be taken back...that is why it is always wise to think before speaking 

Thanks Jaime!!!!


----------



## frocher (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

........


----------



## rbella (Apr 29, 2009)

The point is, your criticism was not _constructive_.  Feel free to dislike someone's FOTD all you want, but to say "You do look like a clown", for example, is just plain rude.  

It was obvious by the original post and the title of the thread that this particular comment was hurtful to the poster (Nyla).  So, if you thought her makeup was heavy or you didn't like it, why the heck not just say "It's not to my liking, here is why...".  Is that so terribly difficult?

You are right, I don't know you and to laugh at the sociopath comment is just as offensive and I apologize.  You might just be the sweetest human being in the world.  But, you definitely did not portray yourself that way in your response.

I still don't get why the argument over common decency and manners in replying to a FOTD still exists?  This is beyond my comprehension.


----------



## nunu (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACLovin* 

 
_I don't think its fair to Nyla to have her thread closed just because of a rude, tactless individual.. people should still be able to comment on her look if they want.

However, perhaps the debate over the way certain members conduct themselves when commenting should have its own thread if people want to defend their right to be caustic and non-constructive. I don't see why it's so difficult to comprehend that if you're just spouting negative BS you may as well just shut it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but i guess some will never learn._

 
I agree that it's not fair on Nyla, i wouldn't want her to close it either. I just wanted the personal attacks on her stopped and i see that Jaime have posted another thread for it, which is a great idea


----------



## user79 (Apr 29, 2009)

For the record, you don't have to only say positive things otherwise keep it moving, if you have some critique that can be offered that you feel would improve a look, by all means everyone has the right to say so. But please remember this is someone's _face _you're talking about so a bit of tact and politeness can be expected. You can give criticism that will not offend someone, and might actually help them to improve their look or at least offer a new opinion. I don't think the FOTD forum is merely to "kiss ass", it's a great way to get helpful feedback from other people but common courtesy and tact goes a long way.


----------



## metal_romantic (Apr 29, 2009)

It's the spirit in which you say it- if you are genuinely wanting to help someone, chances are you will want to word your CC in a kind way, and if anyone did take offense you would most likely apologize and explain that you did not mean it in a hurtful way. If you just want to pick on someone, then you're not going to care if anyone is offended by what you said, and will probably get all defensive when anyone says you are rude.


----------



## chocolategoddes (Apr 29, 2009)

Well to answer the question in the title:

If you look at the word "Constructive" it has "Construct" which most people take to mean "build".
You're trying to better the person and help them build their skill.

Nyla's FOTD was bold and different. People have different tastes, and most people aren't used to seeing such looks being worn like that.

I don't want to repeat what was already mentioned.
I do see where both sides are coming from, though.


----------



## Chikky (Apr 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *chocolategoddes* 

 
_ 
Nyla's FOTD was bold and different. People have different tastes, and most people aren't used to seeing such looks being worn like that.

I don't want to repeat what was already mentioned.
I do see where both sides are coming from, though._

 
I sort of can, too. I mean, constructive criticism is what it is: to help, we've established that. I don't really want to add much, because it's all been said. I've dealt with this alot as a seasoned mod at another forum. Though I'm not sure I see a big problem with saying 'Not my cup of tea, but I love how you did it'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All in the phrasing, of course. 

Of course, the individual is to be taken into account, too. Maybe someone (not meaning in this case exactly) the poster didn't mean to be rude, but they phrase things differently. I do know that artists and musicians are very blunt in how they critique things (I know many, and it's how they're critiqued at school so it's more natural for them and they don't mean it to be mean) so maybe things can come off wrongly.  

This was always a big source of debate on the other forum too, though.


----------



## MissResha (Apr 29, 2009)

i didnt read alllll of the comments but i'll just say this.

i've noticed that SOME people post their FOTD's and ASK for CC. others dont. unless someone ASKS then STFU. If you dont LIKE it, dont comment. i do it all the time. i am not gonna waste my time saying "lak omg thats totally wack". nobody asked me. nobody asked you. i dont waste my time and neither should anyone else. if you like it, then by all means, say something. if the person ASKS for cc/help/suggestions, then by ALL means, suggest/give cc/help that person out. we're all learning here, none of us are perfect. we just have one thing in common, we fucking love cosmetics and love sharing that passion. i've learned that online, people are the most sensitive. maybe in real life you can point out "oh girl, thats not working for you.." but you cant do that here. people get offended and upset. and rightfully so, because we cant tell what your e-tone is. if a friend made you some cupcakes and used too much salt, you arent going to be rude and say GOTDAMN THIS IS SOME NASTY ASS SHIT, you're PROBABLY (if you're a good friend) gonna say "Thank you for the effort, but you may wanna cut back on the salt lol". i mean damn, have we no tact?

jeez..


----------



## reesesilverstar (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Resha, cuz I started reading and got so lost I didn't know how to come in. But you've expressed my sentiments perfectly.


----------



## Lauren1981 (Apr 30, 2009)

non-constructive is just straight criticizing someone. constructive would be giving tips/advice for the purpose of improvement or helping someone.
i don't even know what this girl said but from what i'm reading it must have been a pretty sh*tty comment. i saw one comment left from that person saying how she's gotten a whole slew of positive comments so her one negative comment shouldn't be a big deal. well, depending on how it was delivered, it is a big deal. not to mention nyla never said "somebody, please tell me why this women thought i looked like a clown!!" that wasn't the purpose. she liked her face, thought it was pretty damn good fotd, and on top had a pretty interesting story behind it. 
almost everyday i get on here i come across an fotd i don't like but these people aren't asking for any help or advice so i move on. and there are some i see where someone HAS left a comment with some consctructive criticism but it's something like "hey, maybe try blending a little more" or something along those lines. not with something similar to "i don't like it" or "you look like a clown"
wtf?!


----------



## L1LMAMAJ (Apr 30, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *reesesilverstar* 

 
_Thanks Resha, cuz I started reading and got so lost I didn't know how to come in. But you've expressed my sentiments perfectly._

 
Agreed.


----------



## CellyCell (Apr 30, 2009)

Oh, wow. What have I stumbled across? Lol.

Being an active member in makeup forums for many years including being a MOD - one thing I learned is if you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say it at all, especially like Misschievous stated, about someone's face, lol. 

Even if it's constructive criticisms (depending on how well you word it).
I've seen people who asked and get offended by the slightest comment and get jumped by other members. Although what Amity originally posted wasn't a good CC, I don't think jumping down _HER_ throat is necessary too. Just an OD of catty BS. 

I point blank don't give out CC because no matter how I word it, I'm afraid the OP might get offended or butthurt - because in most cases, they do. I've seen it way to many times to back that up.  

I don't ask unless if I truly don't care how blunt people may be in the responses. If you ask, be prepared to get all sorts of responses - constructive or not. Do I think saying Non-CC is okay? No. But it's the net with millions of people in it - there are bound to be a few assholes here and there. Sometimes I'll ask about my eyeshadow and get a random response on my lips - I'm like, "uhhh *confused city* not what I was asking for but thanks?" - move on.

As far as kissing ass, haha - there are a few ass kissers here and there but you know what? Ass kissing is good and majority of them I'm sure are genuine about liking that person's look and it's a total confident booster. The most positive thing about all MU forums is no matter how shitty or good your looks are, people will appreciate it no matter what.

As for what's the difference between the both, Shimmer answered it the best way possible.

Have your opinions - but be smart on how you say it that way it's a win/win. You get your point across, they get good advice.


----------



## Lauren1981 (Apr 30, 2009)

*Re: Apparently I look like a clown FOTD*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kels823* 

 
_ 
If I post a thread saying 'Someone said I look like [insert condescending character] what do you think', then you respond 'I don't like the look but the technique is great' you would be answering my question, no?
_

 
true, but she never asked for anyone to tell her how she looked....
and if she just informed us of how she was *HURT* by this woman's rude comment, why would the first thing out of someone's mouth be "yeah you do remind me of a clown. plus your lips look coloring book drawings"




she could have stated what she didn't like & give advice but all that extra wasn't necessary...... which means she should have found a tactful way to put it or keep it moving


i don't know what's so hard to understand about that......


----------



## MACLovin (Apr 30, 2009)

^ seriously! it's not a difficult concept.


----------



## ImMACnificent (May 1, 2009)

I think there are just certain people that don't understand the "happy medium" in the situation.

They feel they either need to be COMPLETELY BLUNT ("Wow this is not very good") versus "OMG, YOU LOOOK AMAAAAZZZINGNGNGNGNGNG"

I have personally seen some FOTD's that I really did not care for, but what did I do? I clicked back to the forum and just kept browsing. Especially if I feel that I can't give them feedback without sounding like a pretentious bitch. 

You can tell someone how you feel without going overboard and being rude or snobby about it. THAT sounds more constructive to me. When it becomes a battle of wit, it is no longer constructive.


----------



## pumpkincat210 (May 1, 2009)

Constructive criticism offers advice in a nice way to improve your skills, non constructive criticism is usually offers nothing but "a that's not done right" comment followed with no instruction on how to improve.


----------



## lafemmenoir (May 1, 2009)

This thread is more confusing than it should be, and I'm amazed the issue has a thread in the first place.  I too participate in many makeup communities and I have learned never ever put your face on the web if your going to get e-feelings or can't shake things people say off.  There are people from various cultures, educational levels, class, ages, etc. and we are not going to agree and the more you try to defend an issue, the more flames to the fire will come.
On the other hand, if you post an FOTD and you are going for the bold look people may not know that you want your liner, brows or whatever "admittedly" bold or over the top and get just compliments.  If we just keep it moving, how do we develop better makeup skills? (I understand how to give constructive criticism) The people who are afraid to go against the grain and offer feedback, often do keep it moving I'm guilty of it.


----------



## CantAffordMAC (May 2, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_"Damn spiders be runnin' cross yo face!"_

 
Funniest shit EVER


----------

