# Discussion about moral/ethical/political aspects of Rodarte for MAC



## Door (Jul 16, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *katred* 

 
_I guess there's always one who has to disagree with everything and in this case it's me. I think that there is a really ghostly beauty to the way she's made up and to what she's wearing. In fact, the picture makes the atmosphere of the collection come alive for me to the point where I want to look at the collection again. I know it's all marketing, but for me, it's effective. 

(However, I think most are going to agree with you, Susanne and, objectively, I can see it.)_

 
I agree with you. Before seeing the promo pic I wasn't a least bit interested in this collection. The promo picture caught my interest, which is probably fruitless. If the collection is not going to be available in Sweden the chances that it will be available over here are pretty non-existent. 

I hadn't heard about Juarez before reading about this collection in Temptalia. With this collection both MAC and Rodarte raise awareness of abuse and violence towards women in Juarez. Therefore I'm not least bit offended about the product names.


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## User38 (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LittleMaryJane* 

 
_I agree. I, for one, didn't know anything about this until this collection. I think it is getting it out there. Has MAC said anything about why they chose to do this collection? If they are trying to get the word out, I can respect that.

However, if someone wants to boycott, I can understand why. I do think it is in poor taste not to donate any of the money (if that's the case)._

 







 no, it was not any kind of raising consciousness issues, anyone who reads the newspapers or internet knows about Juarez, the druglords, the gangs, and the almost slave labor -- they simply blew it and are now trying to say they were inspired by the ghostly beauty.  MAC is now offering to donate some of their proceeds to a fund for the women of Juarez... who knows what will happen then.  I personally think that it is tasteless


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## User38 (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_The promo pic is..... strange. ... Not beautiful whatever beauty is._

 

this whole collection -- from an esthetic point of view is not a thing of beauty.. the social issues are just an added sore spot.


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## cindiaz (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I live in SoCal but I was born and raised in Juarez until I was 25,my first job was in a factory and because I was studying to become an Industrial Engineer i kept working on factories, I didn't have a car so I had to take buses to work at 5 in the morning and when i got back from school at 10:30 or 11 at night and it was very scary (there was always some guy asking if I wanted a ride, and that happened to almost any girl in their twenties or younger) Thank God that nothing happened to me but I still have my sisters and my nieces living over there.
Right now my mom and sisters said that that doesn't happened anymore or at least is not reported that much because of the drug war that's going on but still I think it's a great idea from mac and Rodarte if they donate something to the families of those girls.
I think mac collections are just that,collections of beautiful makeup and that in no way they think(mac or the people collaborating with them) that because of the name of a collection they're going to offend someone.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least I don't feel offended because of the names but that is just my opinion.


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## trulynicole (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Everyone has their opinion on this.  I just think it is really sad that Mac would take part in such thing.  Some say that it is art; I think otherwise.  The media is always trying to take things and make it normal.  For example drugs, smoking and sex.  In the olden days, it was taboo to talk about your sex life.  Now it is like whatever!  From what I can see, for Mac to come up with names like 'factory' and 'Juarez' is just sadening.  

All I hope is that they give a good donation to the needy people in Juarez although they wouldn't have to much to give, considering many people are skipping out of the collection.

Oh and nothing really gets my attention anyway.


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## Shadowy Lady (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

collection looks boring, I was gonna pass before I read the background info anyway. Now I will be double passing. I can't understand how anyone won't see this as bad taste. I'm also not convinced by MAC giving a "portion of the proceed" to the cause. There's no way they didn't know about the situation beforehand, they just wanted to make a quick buck. They're just trying to save face here.

I feel sick to my stomach :/


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## Camnagem (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I'm wondering how the possibility of an angry/upset/offended public didn't arise in discussions about this collection before now.  Surely someone in the MAC offices had to raise their hand and say "really???"...didn't they?

Donating profits?  Awesome.

Waiting this long before realizing the possible negative impact this collection might have?  Shocking.


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## LMD84 (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *aeroerin* 

 
_Okay, putting my politics away for the moment.  I've probably irked enough people.
*
My thing with the promo picture is that it looks more like it's advertising a fashion line/horror flick rather than a makeup collection... I would *never* look at that and say "wow, looks like a great makeup collection is coming out!"*  It does, however, look like a ghost film promo picture.  I'd be curious as to what products they actually used in that photo.  I do have a few products that I *may* purchase from this collection depending on the donation MAC is making.



Wow... thank you for your story! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I hope your family continues to do well._

 

no i totally agree with this. thje promo image is just wrong.


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## InspiredBlue (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Door* 

 
_ If the collection is not going to be available in Sweden the chances that it will be available over here are pretty non-existent. _

 
Actually, no. If we don't get it, then Denmark and Norway probably wont either. But Finland is in a different "market" in MAC's structure (with Estonia and Russia, IIRC), with different decision makers and thus quite possibly different decisions being made.


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## Blushbaby (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I had no interest in this collection anyway as the promo pics as somebody mentioned earlier look like something out of a horror movie and the shades also don't interest me.

I find it very hard to believe that MAC didn't think of the Juarez murders when they were all sat in the boardroom, but obviously brushed it aside thinking we were all to thick to have ever watched the news! 

As for announcing that some of the profits will be donated, not good enough, ALL profits from the Rodarte collection should be given to aid the factory workers in Mexico.


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## spunky (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *InspiredBlue* 

 
_Actually, no. If we don't get it, then Denmark and Norway probably wont either. But Finland is in a different "market" in MAC's structure (with Estonia and Russia, IIRC), with different decision makers and thus quite possibly different decisions being made. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
this is a bit off-topic, but is Sweden in the same market as the UK according to mac?

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Blushbaby* 

 
_I had no interest in this collection anyway as the promo pics as somebody mentioned earlier look like something out of a horror movie and the shades also don't interest me.

I find it very hard to believe that MAC didn't think of the Juarez murders when they were all sat in the boardroom, but obviously brushed it aside thinking we were all to think to have ever watched the news! 

As for announcing that some of the profits will be donated, not good enough, ALL profits from the Rodarte collection should be given to aid the factory workers in Mexico._

 
ITA. there's no way in hell they could give products names like that and not be aware of the furore it would cause. and i think all profits from this collection should be donated too. it's not like mac are struggling to pay the bills, and think of the amount of good the profits from one small collection could do.


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## Boasorte (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *shontay07108* 

 
_I think Mac tried to be edgy and it's blown up in their face and rightfully so. While I in no way think racism is behind this, it's in very poor taste. To not know there would be some dust up is just ignorance on their part. 

I'm skipping this entire collection b/c the colors don't interest me at all, I don't care for the brand and this just doesn't seem to offer anything to those with my complexion. The poor names only cement my feelings on that._

 

I agree 100%, Shontay. And not sure what's up with some of theses comments online everywhere comparing it to totally different things. Art? The Holocaust?...NO
But contraversy aside, this collection is a big bore for me and my skin tone...VV here I come.


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## sungelly87 (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Rinstar* 

 
_I actually did not know about this. Yet I do read newspapers and watch news on TV. I also know I'm not alone in saying this. So whether you agree with the idea behind this collection or not, MAC actually did raise awareness about this issue._

 
I agree. I live in Texas and didn't know anything about this situation. Even if I did, I didn't care to register it in my head. But NOW it is there. 

I'm sorry but people might flame me for this but I still think it's funny that we're so riled up about them naming n/p "Juarez" and "Factory". "Juarez" is a town, for those of us who don't know anything about the situation. Let me just emphasize, A LOT of people don't know about the situation, and a lot of people still won't know about the situation. You know that "Juarez" is also a surname right? As far as "Factory" goes, let's just get riled up for anything named after a place where they make things. American Apparel has a nail polish named "Factory" oh yeah let's get on Andy Warhol too. 

Yes yes I understand, it's the situation, the context, and the names. Is anyone an artist? I think Rodarte's statement says it all. MAC was very apologetic but Rodarte? They stand by their inspiration and the root of it, which wasn't to highlight the atrocity but emphasize the landscape, the places. 

So to make up for those who are boycotting, I think I shall haul everything from this collection.


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## Rinstar (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

^Especially if MAC is donating money to help victims now. I too am going to purchase items from this with wild abandon. 16 of each MES please.


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## TheTeenageMuse (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

At least the discussion here is civilized. Over in Temptalia-land things are starting to get ugly. 

I don't think that MACs intentions were bad. Themes in art are oft. inspired by real-world issues. The difference here probably being that you don't consume art/a fashion show. In the same way you consume makeup products. I think that the promo pictures inspired by Juarez are excellent. As they reflect the problems faced there. 

Just thinking about my own country if MAC were to do a collection around native people and name a product Residential Schools. I'd be really upset. Just because what happened in those schools should not be connected to makeup. But if they were to do a photoshoot of an interpretation of a Residential school then i'd be okay with that...

I will still support MAC and will understand if others don't. I still like this collection but I don't think i'll buy factory or juarez. If MAC sells postcards for a charity in Juarez i'll definitely purchase it.


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## Shadowy Lady (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I won't boycott MAC, but my money will not go towards this collection, it will go toward helping the women in Juarez. Does anyone know a link to help send money?

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MsWestchesterNY* 

 
_I agree 100%, Shontay. And not sure what's up with some of theses comments online everywhere comparing it to totally different things. Art? The Holocaust?...NO
But contraversy aside, this collection is a big bore for me and my skin tone...VV here I come._

 
I don't think anyone compared the collection to Holocaust, they compared the *femicide happening in Juarez* to it which is fair IMO. We are all people and in my mind all equal. Any form of injustice and genocide should be condemned. It's not horrible only if it happened to European Jews, it's equally disgusting if it happened to African in Rwanda, to Armenian in Turkey and to Latina women in Mexico. No human life is more precious than an other.The holocaust is very well documented but many of the tragedies i listed above are not. 

I don't believe MAC wanted to promote violence or be racist or anything but poor taste is what this is, also bad PR decisions. It def was not their intention to make awareness, and for that I'm disappointed. Especially from a company that is all about charities (read: Viva Glam campaign).


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## Steel Magnolia (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Being an Irish lass, I can say that the majority of europeans have never heard of Juarez. This collection has made us aware of the issues and I think thats a fab thing. Hmm.. Maybe something good will come of the collection (apart from lovely makeups!) as its helping to spread awareness! Also, Mac are donating a portion of the profits so I shall be purchasing the mineralize shadows, beauty powder, and maybe a few other things.


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## amy04 (Jul 17, 2010)

For anybody interested in a sort of different, evolving perspective on this collection, I've written up a fairly long post about it on my blog. I'd love to hear what you guys think, especially if it makes you think of the situation differently.

Excerpt: "As a make-up artist and a feminist (did you know those things could be combined?), I feel that on a larger scale it brings up some interesting topics, particularly the subjects of expression and commentary, and to what extent they are accepted, and in what forms, in the fashion world."


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## Swirlgirl (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shadowy Lady* 

 
_
I don't think anyone compared the collection to Holocaust, they compared the *femicide happening in Juarez* to it which is fair IMO. We are all people and in my mind all equal. Any form of injustice and genocide should be condemned. It's not horrible only if it happened to European Jews, it's equally disgusting if it happened to African in Rwanda, to Armenian in Turkey and to Latina women in Mexico. No human life is more precious than an other.The holocaust is very well documented but many of the tragedies i listed above are not. 

I don't believe MAC wanted to promote violence or be racist or anything but poor taste is what this is, also bad PR decisions. It def was not their intention to make awareness, and for that I'm disappointed. Especially from a company that is all about charities (read: Viva Glam campaign)._

 
These are my thoughts exactly. I'm disappointed that it was up to consumers to point out to MAC how they were exploiting the violence against women in this region of Mexico. I hope they do fulfill their promise that they will find a way to donate some of the profits from this collection to help those in need. 

I find the promo image to convey the ghostly/haunting imagery evocative of the region. I feel the spirits of the women who's lives have been sacrificed in the picture. It is not a traditional beauty shot. It has an artistic edge, which both MAC and Rodarte are known for. Although I personally don't love the image, I do think it is evocative and it's somber quality are appropriate for the collection.

I will be picking up several items from this collection, not because of the controversy or the charity (but I will be following this aspect closely to see if MAC follows through), but because these are the types of colors I love and wear often.


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## Boasorte (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Rinstar* 

 
_I actually did not know about this. Yet I do read newspapers and watch news on TV. I also know I'm not alone in saying this. So whether you agree with the idea behind this collection or not, MAC actually did raise awareness about this issue._

 
As my one of my high school teachers always told me "You have to look past the local paper and CNN to know what's going on in the world" But yes MAC did in a weird way raise awareness with this issue.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sungelly87* 

 
_I agree. I live in Texas and didn't know anything about this situation. Even if I did, I didn't care to register it in my head. But NOW it is there. 

*I'm sorry but people might flame me for this but I still think it's funny that we're so riled up about them naming n/p "Juarez" and "Factory". "Juarez" is a town, for those of us who don't know anything about the situation. Let me just emphasize, A LOT of people don't know about the situation, and a lot of people still won't know about the situation. You know that "Juarez" is also a surname right? As far as "Factory" goes, let's just get riled up for anything named after a place where they make things. American Apparel has a nail polish named "Factory" oh yeah let's get on Andy Warhol too.* 

Yes yes I understand, it's the situation, the context, and the names. Is anyone an artist? I think Rodarte's statement says it all. MAC was very apologetic but Rodarte? They stand by their inspiration and the root of it, which wasn't to highlight the atrocity but emphasize the landscape, the places. 

So to make up for those who are boycotting, I think I shall haul everything from this collection._

 
And I think it's funny that YOU think it's funny that people wouldn't know Juarez is a surname and a town... was that a serious statement? LOL


Shadowy Lady said:


> I won't boycott MAC, but my money will not go towards this collection, it will go toward helping the women in Juarez. Does anyone know a link to help send money?


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## Boasorte (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shadowy Lady* 

 
_I won't boycott MAC, but my money will not go towards this collection, it will go toward helping the women in Juarez. Does anyone know a link to help send money?



*I don't think anyone compared the collection to Holocaust*, they compared the femicide happening in Juarez to it which is fair IMO. We are all people and in my mind all equal. Any form of injustice and genocide should be condemned. It's not horrible only if it happened to European Jews, it's equally disgusting if it happened to African in Rwanda, to Armenian in Turkey and to Latina women in Mexico. No human life is more precious than an other.The holocaust is very well documented but many of the tragedies i listed above are not. 

I don't believe MAC wanted to promote violence or be racist or anything but poor taste is what this is, also bad PR decisions. It def was not their intention to make awareness, and for that I'm disappointed. Especially from a company that is all about charities (read: Viva Glam campaign)._

 
I was not talking about the comments here on Specktra. I have read on a couple of sites where people have taken this to the extreme and mentioned other tragedies, i.e the Holocaust.


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## Boasorte (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shadowy Lady* 

 
_I won't boycott MAC, but my money will not go towards this collection, it will go toward helping the women in Juarez. Does anyone know a link to help send money?



*I don't think anyone compared the collection to Holocaust*, they compared the femicide happening in Juarez to it which is fair IMO. We are all people and in my mind all equal. Any form of injustice and genocide should be condemned. It's not horrible only if it happened to European Jews, it's equally disgusting if it happened to African in Rwanda, to Armenian in Turkey and to Latina women in Mexico. No human life is more precious than an other.The holocaust is very well documented but many of the tragedies i listed above are not. 

I don't believe MAC wanted to promote violence or be racist or anything but poor taste is what this is, also bad PR decisions. It def was not their intention to make awareness, and for that I'm disappointed. Especially from a company that is all about charities (read: Viva Glam campaign)._

 
I was not talking about the comments here on Specktra. I have read on a couple of sites where people have taken this and  mentioned other tragedies, i.e the Holocaust.


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## Shimmer (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Make another  thread to carry on the social and political implications of the collection.   Keep it light here.


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## sungelly87 (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I wonder if MAC is going to pull this collection since bloggers are "uniting"...


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## s_lost (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I don't think so, but they should do a real campaign to bring attention to their "inspiration". I really hope so.


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## musicalhouses (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I agree with s_lost, I'm hoping they'll donate more than just 'a portion' of the profits to the related charities. I was outraged by this, and I would like to see ALL the proceeds to go charity, just like Viva Glam. I also hope they do more for Rodarte in future, other than just supposedly (and unintentionally) 'raising awareness' about it.

But colours-wise, I didn't like this collection at all. I already have Mauvement (and now I'll never look at it the same way again), and the only thing that interested me was the blush, it looked like such a pretty pink. I'll wait it out and see, although I doubt I'll be getting anything, if at all. I'm only NC20, and I feel like these colours are quite unwearable for me, other than Mauvement and the blush.


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## Shadowy Lady (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MsWestchesterNY* 

 
_I was not talking about the comments here on Specktra. I have read on a couple of sites where people have taken this and  mentioned other tragedies, i.e the Holocaust._

 
I wasn't talking about comments here either, but I might have misunderstood you, my apologies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I meant the comments on Temptalia's site were ppl were comparing femicide in Juarez to Holocaust and I thought that was fair.

Either way, let's wait and see what will come out of this. Meanwhile in terms of colour palette this remains the most boring MAC collection I've ever seen


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## panther27 (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I look forward to this collection,some of the colors are really pretty.I don't care for the lipglosses tho.I want Quincenera blush Softly Drifting bp,the nail lacquers Ghost Town ls and the pink ls,also the reddish mes.


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## sungelly87 (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *musicalhouses* 

 
_I would like to see ALL the proceeds to go charity, just like Viva Glam._

 
I think a lot of people would, however I don't think that'll happen unless Rodarte also agrees to the terms.

As far as the colors go, I'm really interested in the Rose State l/s, the beauty powder, and the blush. I also want the Badlands pigment.


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## lovesongx (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Just wanted to agree with some of the other posters before me, I think MAC is in really bad taste with this collection.
I understand that Rodarte are taking 'inspiration' from the area but are MAC really trying to tell us that we should want to look like poor murdered girls?
MAC should definitely donate 100% of the profits.

This reminds me of when the 'World Trade Center' film was released, fair enough they raised awareness of what actually happened to lots of people, but they also made millions of dollars for themselves which just didn't seem right to me.


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## Blushbaby (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shadowy Lady* 

 
_Either way, let's wait and see what will come out of this. Meanwhile in terms of colour palette this remains the most boring MAC collection I've ever seen_

 
Absolutely! The shades are dire, dire DIRE!! One of the blandest collections I've ever seen - hardly a true representation of Mexican culture.

My thoughts on the MAC Rodarte collection. 

I'm really keen to see what MAC's next move will be as the backlash against this collection is now more intense than ever.

I don't think a separate thread should be made to discuss the political aspects of the collection. We're all adults here and this thread hasn't turned into a slanging match. This is the Rodarte discussion thread and we're discussing all aspects of it. 

Keeping it all light and fluffy is exactly what MAC and Rodarte would want. We're intelligent women, not airheads who only come alive when applying lipgloss or seeking that must-have lipstick! I for one am really enjoying reading everybody's views on it, irrespective of whether they differ from my own or not.


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## cindiaz (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

This is a website about the "women of juarez".

womenofjuarez.com - Home

http://womenofjuarez.egenerica.com/content/view/10/25/


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## Shimmer (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Blushbaby* 

 
_
I don't think a separate thread should be made to discuss the political aspects of the collection. We're all adults here and this thread hasn't turned into a slanging match. This is the Rodarte discussion thread and we're discussing all aspects of it. 

Keeping it all light and fluffy is exactly what MAC and Rodarte would want. We're intelligent women, not airheads who only come alive when applying lipgloss or seeking that must-have lipstick! I for one am really enjoying reading everybody's views on it, irrespective of whether they differ from my own or not._

 
I understand that may not be what you want.

I also understand why there are different sections within the forums on this site. 

Please respect  that.


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## s_lost (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Only for the most sophisticated among us, the rage for Rodarte is on!  
 
When I think MAC can't make things worse...


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## Blushbaby (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_I understand that may not be what you want.

I also understand why there are different sections within the forums on this site. 

Please respect  that._

 
I calmly responded to a call for a separate thread to be made and simply put my opinion forward explaining why I didn't think it was necessary. I'm not the only person who has commented on the Juarez controversy and I won't be the last. Please don't patronise me.

I'll keep quiet now in case I find myself banned from the forum for daring to have an opinion.


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## musicalhouses (Jul 19, 2010)

As one of the bloggers who spoke out against the Rodarte incident, I've had my say on my blog and I'll keep it cool here. But I'd just like to point out (in part because of the flame comments I've been getting) that while MAC probably didn't intend to offend anyone, Rodarte did in fact base their collection partly on the surreal landscape, and partly on the factory girls. Style.com reports that Rodarte was "interested in the troubled border town of Ciudad Juárez; the hazy, dreamlike quality of the landscape there; and the maquiladora workers going to the factory in the middle of the night." (source: Rodarte Fall 2010 Ready-to-Wear Collection on Style.com: Runway Review --> not my blog, not affiliated etc.) They did indeed see the girls and decide the collection could be based partly off them. And they did in fact have Juarez in mind. I think MAC may have overlooked these, because you don't see any of this in their press release, but their collaborators did have that in mind.

I don't know if this information helps your buying decision (at least MAC wasn't the originator of the concept) or hurts it (what, someone did indeed base the collection partly off the factory girls), but I hope this info helps whoever it might be relevant to, since it seems like people are partly basing their buying decisions on this point.

Personally, I'm going to wait this whole thing out before buying anything, although I don't think I'll be getting anything at all. Colors-wise, I'm a neutrals kind of girl, so white lipstick isn't quite my thing to begin with.


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## ChloeCariad (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Some interesting comments here.

I'll be surprised if MAC pull this collection though.  I can see them changing their decision on how much of the profits go to charity (IE to 100%). 

For me, it doesn't matter where the concept started, MAC, if they didn't agree with Rodarte's choice of names, shouldn't have proceeded.  They are a big enough company, that one failed collaboration wouldn't have hurt them so much.  

If they truly weren't aware of what they were doing, heads should most certainly roll, ignorance is no excuse.

If they had created this as a charity collection in the first place, I doubt the furore would be anywhere near what is now.  It would certainly change my feelings about it.


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## Naynadine (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Oh boy,this whole drama around the Rodarte collection is starting to annoy me.I mean not here on Specktra,but everywhere.Even on my own german blog.And I only read like 10 % of what I see about it on forums and blogs.
I think it's a beautiful collection and I find nothing wrong with it.If you don't like,don't buy it.As simple as that.
Someone commented on my blog it would be the same as if a lipstick would be named Auschwitz.Now that's where I draw the line.
I really have to calm myself down,I would like to say a lot of things to that and to the people who are oh-so-outraged about this collection,but I rather don't even start. *taking deep breath*


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## styrch (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Hi. I didn't see a separate thread to comment on this discussion from the political aspect. Otherwise I'd be happy to move this there this there...

I did get angry, like others. But I want to direct that anger toward something positive.  I'm just trying to gather a list of charities for donation and actually doing something to try to help (even if it's small). If you know of any, please let me know. You can find my list (such as it is) here. Please help me add additional charities. Thanks.


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## sss215 (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Naynadine* 

 
_Oh boy,this whole drama around the Rodarte collection is starting to annoy me._

 
I have a feeling that when the collection is released, it may cause a stir then as well.  There are tons of MAC customers that do not follow the early chatter on unreleased collections on-line.  Some people are going to see the line in person, not even knowing about the Rodarte inspiration to begin with and they may not be happy with some of the product names, especially if they follow these events.   They may address their issues with the artists in the stores and at the counters.  Since the MUA's are going to be out there when the line is releases, I hope MAC prepares their artists for any backlash about the line they may receive.


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## twiztdlilangel (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sss215* 

 
_I have a feeling that when the collection is released, it may cause a stir then as well. There are tons of MAC customers that do not follow the early chatter on unreleased collections on-line. Some people are going to see the line in person, not even knowing about the Rodarte inspiration to begin with and they may not be happy with some of the product names, especially if they follow these events. They may address their issues with the artists in the stores and at the counters. Since the MUA's are going to be out there when the line is releases, I hope MAC prepares their artists for any backlash about the line they may receive._

 

I think you are right! It could get very ugly for those poor artists.


----------



## LMD84 (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sungelly87* 

 
_I wonder if MAC is going to pull this collection since bloggers are "uniting"..._

 
i highly doubt mac will pull the collection due to bloggers 'uniting' over it. if anything they will love all the extra publicity they are getting for free.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Blushbaby* 

 
_I calmly responded to a call for a separate thread to be made and simply put my opinion forward explaining why I didn't think it was necessary. I'm not the only person who has commented on the Juarez controversy and I won't be the last. Please don't patronise me.

*I'll keep quiet now in case I find myself banned from the forum for daring to have an opinion.*_

 
oh please don't think that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  all opinions are welcome here!  i think it's just that because it is such a high conversation topic perhaps people could talk about their opinions and such on the themes in the deep thoughts or chatter section of the forum rather than where the make up talk goes.  This goes for all threads and not just this one.  and i really don't think Shimmer was just isolating you.


----------



## s_lost (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I’m happy that this debate was created despite MAC and Rodarte (because, really, they didn’t bring any awareness towards the situation, the discussion was created after some informed and conscious consumers started to talk about their indignation and now MAC is trying to minimize damages).

    I think it’s really important to talk about it, and not just admire the pretty colors. This way, more people can make a conscious choice about buying or not the products.  A lot of people don’t know about Juarez.

    If my post is not adequate to this thread I apologize. I didn’t find a specific thread about the social implications about this collection (even though I too think that they're not different things. Every collection has its background discussed in the regular thread. What is the problem? Criticize MAC? Make someone uncomfortable? )


----------



## InspiredBlue (Jul 19, 2010)

Latest news from nymag: MAC to Change Name of Rodarte Collection Products -- The Cut


----------



## InspiredBlue (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Maybe the discussion can continue here: http://www.specktra.net/forum/f179/d...te-mac-167591/


----------



## Blushbaby (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Oops, double post - didn't realise you'd already posted about MAC changing the name of the products.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LMD84* 

 
_oh please don't think that. all opinions are welcome here! i think it's just that because it is such a high conversation topic perhaps people could talk about their opinions and such on the themes in the deep thoughts or chatter section of the forum rather than where the make up talk goes. This goes for all threads and not just this one. and i really don't think Shimmer was just isolating you._

 
It'll take more than that to get rid of me, I love chatting with you guys too much. Thank you xx


----------



## MAC'sMyBF (Jul 19, 2010)

Which names were offensive?


----------



## glamorjunkie (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I agree...I am still interested in these products. It isn't a look you would do daily but it is so intriguing...

I don't think there is going to be too much backlash or controversy at the counter at all...Maybe where I live there won't be. I live in a small area....I don't feel the names are controversial. Factory doesn't offend me. My husband works in a factory. Working in a factory is hard work and that is what I relate it too....If I like the colors in real life I may buy them but who knows after seeing them they may not be worth it...

You cannot compare this with the Holocaust or 9-11. I agree....That is upsetting...


----------



## sss215 (Jul 19, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MAC'sMyBF* 

 
_Which names were offensive?_

 

In my opinion, just about all of them.


----------



## sss215 (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamorjunkie* 

 
_I don't think there is going to be too much backlash or controversy at the counter at all...Maybe where I live there won't be.  I live in a small area....I don't feel the names are controversial.  Factory doesn't offend me.  My husband works in a factory.  Working in a factory is hard work and that is what I relate it too....If I like the colors in real life I may buy them but who knows after seeing them they may not be worth it..._

 

MAC may have considered the backlash.  They are changing the names. 

The word factory would not normally offend me either, but used in association with the collection, both Rodarte and MAC's,  it has offended many.


----------



## s_lost (Jul 19, 2010)

The "inspiration" was offensive. They can't change that, can they?


----------



## Purrceys (Jul 19, 2010)

Here's the latest statements from MAC and Rodarte (as posted on Temptalia's blog)

*'STATEMENT FROM M·A·C COSMETICSON  THE M·A·C RODARTE COLLECTION*
We understand that product names in the M·A·C Rodarte  collection have offended our consumers and fans. This was never our  intent and we are very sorry.  We continue to listen carefully to the  comments we have received and have the following plans to address  concerns:

We are committed to donating $100,000 to a non-profit organization  that has a proven, successful track-record helping women in need and  that can directly improve the lives of women in Juarez in a meaningful  way. 
We are changing the product names in the M·A·C Rodarte collection. 
As we have done in the past, please be assured that we will  communicate details regarding our progress in this matter.​ *STATEMENT FROM RODARTE ON THE M·A·C RODARTE COLLECTION*
We recognize that the violence against women taking place  in Juarez needs to be met with proactive action. We never intended to  make light of this serious issue and we are truly sorry.
 Helping to improve the conditions for women in Juarez is a priority  for us and we are thankful for all the comments calling attention to the  urgency of addressing this situation."

​Personally I feel a lot better about these latest statements than the previous ones.  I previously wrote to MAC about the inadequacy of the previous response and why I objected to the 'inspiration' for this collection.


----------



## Rinstar (Jul 19, 2010)

They're also donating $100,000. Don't you think the victims would rather have this collection released and receive $100,000 than have people boycotting it/still upset? That's $100,000 more donated to this cause than would have been donated without MAC and Rodarte. Plus countless donations from people who became outraged and now really care/are aware of this issue.


----------



## s_lost (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm relived. Public opinion really can change things.


----------



## MAC'sMyBF (Jul 19, 2010)

Wow, I just looked over the names, and 'Factory'??? Really? I'm really glad they are changing the names.


----------



## laylalovesmac (Jul 19, 2010)

Yay MAC! Donating $100,000! I feel better about buying from this now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish they had committed earlier, but even if they are doing this to prevent loss of customers, it is $100,000 to helping all of those women. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So long as it helps, I don't really care why they are doing it.


----------



## hello_kitty (Jul 19, 2010)

Unfortunately it's not a new problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's what sad, but a lot of new people have become aware of it when details about this collection came out, so at least a lot more people are now aware and maybe will be driven to help out in whatever why they can.  I remember first learning about it from At the Drive In's 2001 song "Invalid Litter Dept."  

At least MAC has been listening to their consumers, and have decided to change the names and donate money.  It's showing that they're not being apathetic, regardless of what motives people think they might have.  They could've gone "hey, screw ya'll, we leaving it all the same."


----------



## QueenBam (Jul 19, 2010)

hello_kitty is right.... they could've just ignored all this and not done anything about it at all. i know i personally feel better buying it now that i know they're doing something. the photo of the model weirded me out too, she looks dead. and femicide is NOT funny.






factory, ghost town, bordertown, bad land.... not exactly uplifting names.

i guess i compare it to them releasing a collection inspired by tribes in which female genital mutilation happened, or something along the lines. its not really an uplifting thing to be making money out of. they definitely got points with me after they decided to make the donation and change the names, we all know they are a generous company to those who are less lucky.


----------



## Shadowy Lady (Jul 19, 2010)

I hope they change the promo pic too. I'm not buying from this collection still but don't wanna pass by MAC and see the promo pic there, it's very scary looking. The shadow of the girl on the left looks like it has blood dripping from its back and the one on the right is just ghostly looking :/

I do appreciate MAC doing something with all the backlash they got, but to me the end doesn't justify the means. I'd day I'm pleased but def not 100% happy. Hopefully next time they won't think we're just some women who are happy with a lipstick without having a shred of humanity...


----------



## laylalovesmac (Jul 19, 2010)

I like the model since I like the pale thing, but I don't like it in relation to this collection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It feels wrong and sad.


----------



## Luiza_T (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Does anybody know which names they are changing, and for what?


----------



## Mabelle (Jul 19, 2010)

you know, i never usually pay any attention to product names. and for soe reason, this collection drew no intrest at all, so i just glanced at it. But now that im looking at all the names this is ridiculous. How was this approuved up until this point? How did these two women decide this was a tastful/good idea. 
that promo image needs to change. this is just so tasteless.
im happy that mac apologized, but i just dont understand how it took so long for someone to say this isnt kosher.


----------



## bea_16 (Jul 19, 2010)

Is that photo an official promo pic or just a backstage shot of the Rodarte fashion show?
Anyway I think MAC is to blame for not paying enough attention.
But the Rodarte sisters...basing a collection (clothing and now makeup) on a place they never even set foot in where horrible and inhumane things happen daily is ridiculous and ignorant.I've lived in the El Paso/Juarez border all my life. I was just in Juarez less than a month ago and "dreamlike" is not the word I would use to describe it.The glamourizing of the city is just wrong.


----------



## DILLIGAF (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm still not purchasing a thing from this collection. Now it's 100% about it not working for me. Instead of not cosigning to what the collection was standing for. Kudos to MAC for listening to its customers. Also I would like to condemn the author of the "article" in NYMAG. It was snarky, full of bias and unresearched. Just because we are makeup enthusiasts doesn't mean we aren't aware of world issues. I felt like the person writing it was taking the "its just makeup, shut up and wear it" route.


----------



## laylalovesmac (Jul 19, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *DILLIGAF* 

 
_I'm still not purchasing a thing from this collection. Now it's 100% about it not working for me. Instead of not cosigning to what the collection was standing for. Kudos to MAC for listening to its customers. *Also I would like to condemn the author of the "article" in NYMAG. It was snarky, full of bias and unresearched. Just because we are makeup enthusiasts doesn't mean we aren't aware of world issues. I felt like the person writing it was taking the "its just makeup, shut up and wear it" route.*_


----------



## sinergy (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

for those who arent familiar with the ongoing issues in Juarez and similar bordertowns about maquiladoras you would just have to see or hear someone close to you tell their story or about someone they know it really is heart braking and for the people there and who it has effected it might not be the same as the holocaust or 9/11 to you but the people living that actual life im sure the same dispare and hopelessness emotional turmoil and loss they can relate. so this is an issue for some, i am very happy to hear that just people speaking out has caused a change and awarenes from the companies involved. I was going to purchase products anyways, but more so now i think.



(oops hadnt seen their was a seperate discussion thread made already.)


----------



## singer82 (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I really dont think mac really realized the backlash it would cause when they collabed with them. They collaborate with designers. They based it on a designer collection and Rodarte are the ones that based it on Juarez. I think its more Rodarte that everyone should be upset about. 
MAC realized thier mess up and are fixing it. It makes me feel good to be a MAC fan knowing that they actually listen to thier customers. And that they actually put money towards good causes. Not too many companies do that

this is just my opinion. I understand everyones concerns and feelings about this matter. And respect them


----------



## BunnyBunnyBunny (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I'm not suprised they're changing names. I remember depotting Maira's Mood eye shadow from the Make-Up Art Cosmetics collection and under that sticker was a "Maira's Magic" sticker. For some unknown reason, they renamed it and just slapped a new sticker on the shadow. I'm sure that'll be the same with this collection. It'll suck if it's already shipped to stores though, in which case it will have to all be recalled.


----------



## jungleland (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm happy they are changing names  but still in disbelief how they approved them in the first place!

The only positive thing is that now many more people are aware of the situation that is going on over there.

The only item appealin to me was the Juarez n/p, but who wants something named after the "serial killers' play ground"???
Even with the change of name I'm not sure I'll get it!

Oh and from the Rodarte statements... they really simply not get the point... I'm definately boycotting them!!


----------



## Goat Goat Etc. (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Whoa, inspiration miss-step...


----------



## rhondavancouver (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Just read mac is making a donation and changing the names of the products... Yes, it's good that they listen to the consumer, but somehow I can't stop thinking this is what they wanted all along... to get everyone to talk about it... maybe I'll just donate and skip the collection.


----------



## Susanne (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

http://www.specktra.net/forum/f179/d...te-mac-167591/

Please feel free to discuss here freely! Thanks for opening!


----------



## spunky (Jul 20, 2010)

i wonder what they'll change the names to?

i'm sorry if this comes across as cynical, but to me this seems too little, too late. i'm very happy that mac have held their hands up and said they made a mistake, but rodarte? what is wrong with those women?! $100,000 is peanuts compared to what they donate through Viva Glam, but hopefully, with that combined with donations from other people who have been made aware of this situation, some good can come of this. 

i really hope they change the promo image too. i read a blog where the author says the girl [ghost?] on the left has blood dripping down her back, and the fact that the girl on the right isn't bothered by the presence of a ghost further enforces the femicide issue - it's so commonplace that women in Juarez are used to it. i completely agree with this idea, and in that light, the photo is disgusting.

does anyone know if the $100,000 donation is INSTEAD of the 'portion of profits' they originally stated?


----------



## laylalovesmac (Jul 20, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *spunky* 

 
_i wonder what they'll change the names to?

i'm sorry if this comes across as cynical, but to me this seems too little, too late. i'm very happy that mac have held their hands up and said they made a mistake, but rodarte? what is wrong with those women?! $100,000 is peanuts compared to what they donate through Viva Glam, but hopefully, with that combined with donations from other people who have been made aware of this situation, some good can come of this. 

i really hope they change the promo image too. i read a blog where the author says the girl [ghost?] on the left has blood dripping down her back, and the fact that the girl on the right isn't bothered by the presence of a ghost further enforces the femicide issue - it's so commonplace that women in Juarez are used to it. i completely agree with this idea, and in that light, the photo is disgusting.

*does anyone know if the $100,000 donation is INSTEAD of the 'portion of profits' they originally stated?*_

 
That's a good question- I'm wondering that, too.

Again, I like the model because I like that kind of look, but doing it for this collection is horrible, IMO. I would love to see the promo image changed. If Rodarte is saying they were inspired by the colors and such, where are those? This pic does not fit AT ALL!

I wish MAC had realized this sooner (in product planning) and never done the names or paired it with the photo/concept, but at least they are responding and donating. Some companies probably wouldn't do that. 

I just hope that MAC's donation and any donations people make because of this collection help the women of Juarez. When it comes down to it, that's all that really matters, regardless of how quick they were to act.


----------



## spunky (Jul 20, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *laylalovesmac* 

 
_That's a good question- I'm wondering that, too.

Again, I like the model because I like that kind of look, but doing it for this collection is horrible, IMO. I would love to see the promo image changed. If Rodarte is saying they were inspired by the colors and such, where are those? This pic does not fit AT ALL!

I wish MAC had realized this sooner (in product planning) and never done the names or paired it with the photo/concept, but at least they are responding and donating. Some companies probably wouldn't do that. 

I just hope that MAC's donation and any donations people make because of this collection help the women of Juarez. When it comes down to it, that's all that really matters, regardless of how quick they were to act._

 
if that photo was in conjunction with something else, i wouldn't have a problem with it. the fact that she looks so corpse-like combined with the knowledge that the rodarte women KNEW about the Juarez situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

it just beggars belief that nobody in R+D or Marketing picked up on this. there is no excuse. if you promote a collection as 'inspired' by something, surely you do research into that inspiration, and any sort of search on Mexican border towns will give you an idea of the horrific events that happen there on a regular basis. 

again, i'm pleased that mac have admitted that they were bang out of order and i'm still thinking about whether i'm going to buy from this collection but i know that i am definitely going to donate to a charity that helps these women. someone in the main rodarte thread had started to compile a list of these charities so i'll have to go back and find out which ones are recommended.


----------



## Door (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I hope they won't change all the names. I really like names like Softly Drifting, Sleepwalker, Sleepless, Rose State and some other. If this collection hadn't any connection to Juarez, I think most of us wouldn't see these names as offending.


----------



## musicalhouses (Jul 20, 2010)

Totally agree with QueenBam on this. I'm glad at least they're doing something, even if I might feel its a little inadequate.

And I totally didn't see this until someone pointed it out, but did anyone see there's a ghost in the promo photo too? On the left hand side, there is an outline of a woman (you know the bit where the white background ends), and she's wearing the same clothes as the human model and appears to be looking at her. I never noticed it before, but it makes it really creepy.


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *QueenBam* 

 
_hello_kitty is right.... they could've just ignored all this and not done anything about it at all. i know i personally feel better buying it now that i know they're doing something. the photo of the model weirded me out too, she looks dead. and femicide is NOT funny.






factory, ghost town, bordertown, bad land.... not exactly uplifting names.

i guess i compare it to them releasing a collection inspired by tribes in which female genital mutilation happened, or something along the lines. its not really an uplifting thing to be making money out of. they definitely got points with me after they decided to make the donation and change the names, we all know they are a generous company to those who are less lucky._


----------



## spunky (Jul 20, 2010)

Pretty In Dayton: MAC & Rodarte - I feel like doing something about it. How about you?

this is the link to the blog i was talking about - and the list of charities, by our very own Styrch


----------



## Andrew (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

The issue is not with the words or names specifically that the products are called but how they link directly to the people of Juarez who live and work in these appalling conditions and live under the threat of violence and murder every hour of their lives..

Had the range not been directly associated to Juarez the names would not carry the weight of public outrage and I doubt anyone would have said anything.

Plainly the design and colours are as shown in the Rodart/MAC picture with a guant model looking less than healthy with sunken eyes and a sallow complexion are a direct reference to the situation and people of Juarez..Hardly beautiful IMO but the inspiration has been claimed to be taken from the surrounding countryside..Just how many countrysides do you know, apart from Chernobyl, which look gaunt and sallow and at deaths door?.

This is a major marketing mess up and MAC are having to do something about it double quick. They realise their error, hindsight being twenty twenty vision as always and I suppose at least this furore has shone a light on the plight of thses poor women..

In the 21st century its shameful that people still live in fear of their lives and even worse that a comsetics company should use this area as a base for their inspiration.

 It beggers belief that in amongst a group of college graduated Marketing people that somone didnt put their hand up and say..

_*" excuse me, but do you think this is a good idea, have you seen or researched Juarez and the factory and its workers..maybe we should do some market research here...just a thought*_"

..No this didnt happen but it should have..I know we have all heard the could-a should-a would-a's before but really for a company as big as this falling under the corporate umberella of the Estee Lauder group somome should have had the savvy..

Andrew


----------



## martiangurll (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Door* 

 
_I hope they won't change all the names. I really like names like Softly Drifting, Sleepwalker, Sleepless, Rose State and some other. If this collection hadn't any connection to Juarez, I think most of us wouldn't see these names as offending._

 
I agree.  I am upset they are changing the names.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy.  And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look.  Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum.

Anyhoo, I really like the collection and the look they were going for.  I get the artistic inspiration was women on their way to work in the bordertown in the early hours of the morning when the light was just beginning to break, etc.  Maybe they aren't fully awake because it is really early in the morning, etc.  And I do not mean to minimize the murders happening, but I don't think that anyone meant to capitalize on the controversy.  I think this was unintended consequences of the choice of inspiration for the artists.

But I really liked the names of the products and I thought they went well with the theme of the collection.  I don't see anyone blogging about refusing to buy DS makeup at Walmart because they have sweatshops in the third world.  

It seems very easy to tear down a "big corporation" and blame them for having "bad taste" rather than focusing on the problem at hand--rather than crediting the original explanation for the "idea" behind the theme of the collection.

Will it change my choices of products? maybe.  Totally depends on the names they choose for the products.  To me, the names do influence my decision.  Maybe that is silly, but that is simply how much the names of the product influence the perception of the color.  I really like the interesting names of the Urban Decay products, like "asphyxia" and "bruise." And would I love Perfect Topping or Roman Holiday any less with a different name?  IDK  but the names sort of give a frame of reference to what collection the product belonged to with the associated color schemes and models/face charts, etc.

So maybe this thread should go to the political discussion section, but I don't think it should.  I am just really disappointed that the names are going to change. 

Thus far, I think I still want to purchase the same products, but I was fairly invested in the names and they won't be the same without them.


----------



## stv578 (Jul 20, 2010)

What bothers me is that given the original product names and the promo pic, it appears that the people behind this collection were _very_ aware of the situation in Juarez.   
I just can't get my head around why anyone at MAC or Rodarte thought this was a good idea at any point during the developmental process.


----------



## Boasorte (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Naynadine* 

 
_Oh boy,this whole drama around the Rodarte collection is starting to annoy me.I mean not here on Specktra,but everywhere.Even on my own german blog.And I only read like 10 % of what I see about it on forums and blogs.
I think it's a beautiful collection and I find nothing wrong with it.If you don't like,don't buy it.As simple as that.
Someone commented on my blog it would be the same as if a lipstick would be named Auschwitz.Now that's where I draw the line.
I really have to calm myself down,I would like to say a lot of things to that and to the people who are oh-so-outraged about this collection,but I rather don't even start. *taking deep breath*_

 
 Your annoyance and anger won't stop people from posting their opinions.You draw the line at a lipstick named after a concentration camp but not something like this? Would a slavery collection with lipsticks named "Noose" and "Cotton Field" and "KKK" be beautiful? After all it would be drawing inspiration from the strong Africans who had to endear slavery for hundreds of years.
Your Unnecessary post is unnecessary
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rhondavancouver* 

 
_Just read mac is making a donation and changing the names of the products... Yes, it's good that they listen to the consumer, but somehow* I can't stop thinking this is what they wanted all along... to get everyone to talk about it...* maybe I'll just donate and
 skip the collection._

 
I'm a sucker for conspiracy theories


----------



## Chikky (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *martiangurll* 

 
_I agree.  I am upset they are changing the names.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy.  And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look.  Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum.
_

 
Agreed. I liked the zombie look, too! 

Personally, I think people are overreacting. Yes, I'm quite aware of  what's going on. No, it doesn't affect my choice of products. To be  honest, any group could find fault with almost any name or product. 

 Quote:

  But I really liked the names of the products and I thought they  went  well with the theme of the collection.  I don't see anyone blogging  about refusing to buy DS makeup at Walmart because they have sweatshops  in the third world.  
 
I agree. I wish they wouldn't change the names, and I sort of feel that  it's a coward move to do so. They decided on them for some reason, and  they should stick by it. 

No offense to anyone. Just my opinion. And if people had such a problem with it, I feel they should contribute something to the cause, not make this company change the names of products, thereby costing them a ton of wasted money.


----------



## Andrew (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*



MsWestchesterNY said:


> Your annoyance and anger won't stop people from posting their opinions.You draw the line at a lipstick named after a concentration camp but not something like this? Would a slavery collection with lipsticks named "Noose" and "Cotton Field" and "KKK" be beautiful? After all it would be drawing inspiration from the strong Africans who had to endear slavery for hundreds of years.
> 
> 
> Precisely..can you imagine the offence if a range came out named like that..that would get ugly..
> ...


----------



## Door (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *martiangurll* 

 
_I agree.  I am upset they are changing the names.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy.  *And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look.  *Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum.

*Anyhoo, I really like the collection and the look they were going  for.  I get the artistic inspiration was women on their way to work in  the bordertown in the early hours of the morning when the light was just  beginning to break, etc.  Maybe they aren't fully awake because it is  really early in the morning, etc.  *And I do not mean to minimize the  murders happening, but I don't think that anyone meant to capitalize on  the controversy. I think this was unintended consequences of the choice of inspiration for the artists.

*But I really liked the names of the products and I thought they went well with the theme of the collection.  *I don't see anyone blogging about refusing to buy DS makeup at Walmart because they have sweatshops in the third world.  
_

 
My thoughts exactly, but you wrote it better than I ever could.


----------



## styrch (Jul 20, 2010)

Spunky, thanks for linking me here. I was just going to do that and ask that if anyone comes across charities they feel I should add to my list, please just let me know. I'm trying to grow this list as much as possible so that we have a variety to choose from.

Incidentally, I emailed MAC and asked who they intended on donating to. At this point I have not received a response. Not sure I expect to. But if we do hear, I want to add that to my list as well.


----------



## s0_fam0us (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm not gearing these comments toward any one person - consider this just my personal views...

Does anyone honestly believe that MAC announced this collection with the intent of promoting femicide or glorifying the events occurring in Juarez? I get very aggravated in hearing everyone say how disappointed they are in MAC and their decisions...

It's just makeup. They're just names of products. They're just promo images. MAC really doesn't have anything to do with Juarez. They are a cosmetics company. If you'd like to be disappointed/angry/emotional with ANYONE I feel that those feelings are best directed at those responsible for the conditions in Juarez.

As much as you may feel you're accomplishing something and patting yourself on the back at "getting MAC to rethink their poor choices" or whatever, people are still dying in Juarez regardless if a nail polish is called "Factory" or "Cute Cuddly Gray." 

Consider that.

/rant


----------



## katred (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *martiangurll* 

 
_I agree. I am upset they are changing the names. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy._

 
Very true. It's not like everyone is suddenly going to forget that all of this came up, or that the original inspiration still lurks in the palette even if Sleepwalker is suddenly renamed "Fluffy Bunny Hop".

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *martiangurll* 

 
_And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look. Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum._

 
Zombie girls have more brains! 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *martiangurll* 

 
_I don't see anyone blogging about refusing to buy DS makeup at Walmart because they have sweatshops in the third world._

 
Personally I won't buy anything at WM (and never have), for a lot of reasons. I guess that's how I choose to "vote" with my money, as some people are choosing to do by not buying this collection or not buying from MAC.  

I think I'm cutting MAC some slack here because I generally like them as a company. I think this incident points to some really bone-headed, insensitive types in their marketing department, but I don't see it as being deliberately hurtful. I'll give them a bye on this one and, more to the point, will give the collection a buy. 

I would imagine that the people who are most troubled by this have already excluded a lot of corporations from their buying habits because of their record, even if they arne't blogging about it. (Maybe I'm off base there, but I hope not.)

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *martiangurll* 

 
_Totally depends on the names they choose for the products. To me, the names do influence my decision. Maybe that is silly, but that is simply how much the names of the product influence the perception of the color. I really like the interesting names of the Urban Decay products, like "asphyxia" and "bruise."_

 
Completely agree with you here. Names, especially ones like MAC does, which usually bear no reference to the colour, evoke an atmosphere. I think this probably helps their sales, since putting a colour in a different context can make it seem different and unique to a buyer, even if it's very close to another colour already in the line. Sleepwalker does conjure up certain connotations, especially paired with that polarising press image, that another name may not.

Nicely put, btw.


----------



## Naynadine (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

quote:Your annoyance and anger won't stop people from posting their opinions.You draw the line at a lipstick named after a concentration camp but not something like this? Would a slavery collection with lipsticks named "Noose" and "Cotton Field" and "KKK" be beautiful? After all it would be drawing inspiration from the strong Africans who had to endear slavery for hundreds of years.
Your Unnecessary post is unnecessary

Wow.I don't know if I understand everything correct,because my English is not the best.But that is just rude.Why would you call my opinion unnecessary?
I don't think anyone's opinion is ever unnecessary,even if I have a total different one.And to me there's definitely a line between Auschwitz=concentration camp and Juarez which is a name of a city.It's not like they called the nailpolish ''serialkiller'' or ''dead woman''.And I think comparing it to KKK and a slavery collection is ridiculous and over the top,to be honest.
It is just make-up.I don't understand why people react so sensitive to all of this.Like I said,if you don't like the art of this collection,don't buy it.If you are worried about the situation and women in Juarez,I'm sure there are ways to help/donate,and I always looked up to everybody who is involved in helping with issues like that.
Even if I still don't understand it,I see that some people react kind of heated to this collection,but there's no need to call people's posts on a forum unnecessary.Also on my blog I just commented factual and not angry to the anonymous comments,even if I did not like them.I could as well deleted them or let my ''anger'' out.


----------



## Half N Half (Jul 20, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *s0_fam0us* 

 
_Does anyone honestly believe that MAC announced this collection with the intent of promoting femicide or glorifying the events occurring in Juarez? I get very aggravated in hearing everyone say how disappointed they are in MAC and their decisions...

It's just makeup. They're just names of products. They're just promo images. MAC really doesn't have anything to do with Juarez. They are a cosmetics company. If you'd like to be disappointed/angry/emotional with ANYONE I feel that those feelings are best directed at those responsible for the conditions in Juarez._

 
Yes, it IS just makeup. But I think in this case they are NOT just product names and it's NOT just a promo image. The names/images are obviously "inspired" by Juarez. What's going on there is terrible. I don't think anyone is directing bad feelings towards MAC because they feel the company is promoting femicide. I think people are upset because with all the people working at MAC someone didn't have enough sense to put 2 and 2 together and figure out that some people might be put off by this kind of collection.


----------



## sungelly87 (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

I appreciate everyone's opinions on moral/ethical issues, just not on this thread. 
Maybe here:
http://www.specktra.net/forum/f179/d...te-mac-167591/


----------



## Naynadine (Jul 20, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *s0_fam0us* 

 
_I'm not gearing these comments toward any one person - consider this just my personal views...

Does anyone honestly believe that MAC announced this collection with the intent of promoting femicide or glorifying the events occurring in Juarez? I get very aggravated in hearing everyone say how disappointed they are in MAC and their decisions...

It's just makeup. They're just names of products. They're just promo images. MAC really doesn't have anything to do with Juarez. They are a cosmetics company. If you'd like to be disappointed/angry/emotional with ANYONE I feel that those feelings are best directed at those responsible for the conditions in Juarez.

As much as you may feel you're accomplishing something and patting yourself on the back at "getting MAC to rethink their poor choices" or whatever, people are still dying in Juarez regardless if a nail polish is called "Factory" or "Cute Cuddly Gray." 

Consider that.

/rant_

 





 100%


----------



## sss215 (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *martiangurll* 

 
_I agree.  I am upset they are changing the names.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It doesn't change the fact that there will still be political controversy.  And I liked the ethereal effect they were going for--the so called zombie look.  Then again, I like all things zombie, but perhaps that is a topic for another forum.


Thus far, I think I still want to purchase the same products, but I was fairly invested in the names and they won't be the same without them._

 
I believe that the people at MAC and Rodarte are creative enough to come up with  names that will still capture the essence they were originally trying to envoke. Companies often have working names for products they don't use all the time.  I am sure these companies can fall back on some of those now.  

The colors will remain the same. I am assuming face charts are already made,those elements are still there for people for those who are a fan of this look.  One of the color names can be ethereal, since i am hearing that word being used so much about Rodarte's collection.  

When reading MAC's color story about Rodarte's collection, I see tons of words MAC can use for  product names.


----------



## Boasorte (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Wow.I don't know if I understand everything correct,because my English is not the best.But that is just rude.Why would you call my opinion unnecessary?
I don't think anyone's opinion is ever unnecessary,even if I have a total different one.And to me there's definitely a line between Auschwitz=concentration camp and Juarez which is a name of a city.It's not like they called the nailpolish ''serialkiller'' or ''dead woman''.And I think comparing it to KKK and a slavery collection is ridiculous and over the top,to be honest.
It is just make-up.I don't understand why people react so sensitive to all of this.Like I said,if you don't like the art of this collection,don't buy it.If you are worried about the situation and women in Juarez,I'm sure there are ways to help/donate,and I always looked up to everybody who is involved in helping with issues like that.
Even if I still don't understand it,I see that some people react kind of heated to this collection,but there's no need to call people's posts on a forum unnecessary.Also on my blog I just commented factual and not angry to the anonymous comments,even if I did not like them.I could as well deleted them or let my ''anger'' out.[/quote]

You're like the 3rd person to mention people oh so high strung over the name "Jaurez". No one in here is complaining about that.
If you don't uderstand, then don't comment about you're getting upset of other's opinions, that was unnecessary. Simple. 
Implying that you're getting upset because people have the audacity to feel offended by the insensitive MAC and Rodarte is just ridiculous, to be honest.
I was not being rude.

Everyone on here who is saying "it's just makeup" I feel should take a step back and look at themselves. Of course it's just makeup don't state the obvious when trying to make a point, it doesn't work.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Also to others who mentioned not seeing people speak out against *insert retail/department/brand here* because they support sweat shops/child labor/etc, I suggest you Google, because it's out there. Do not try to reason your argument with no ammo and backwards research.
 It is so amazing to me how some of you girls on here are so closed minded and ignorant of other peoples arguments, it's truly sad.


----------



## Boasorte (Jul 20, 2010)

what's going on with the quotes?


----------



## Shimmer (Jul 20, 2010)

Personal attacks - NOT okay.
Remember the TOS.
Discuss, debate, argue freely. Don't attack one another. Don't name call.
I don't care if you curse, but don't call anyone names and don't apply the epithet to any other member on this site.
Please don't clutter the color story thread up with this topic of conversation. Leave that one light.


----------



## Simply Elegant (Jul 20, 2010)

If this collection's primary purpose was to raise awareness of Juarez (like viva glam campaign for aids), then the names would not be provocative as they are. It's not like they've named one of the viva glam lipsticks death warmed over or some other offensive name and the proceeds would be 100% going to charity and planned for in advance rather than later announcing a portion would be.


----------



## Naynadine (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

quote:You're like the 3rd person to mention people oh so high strung over the name "Jaurez". No one in here is complaining about that.
If you don't uderstand, then don't comment about you're getting upset of other's opinions, that was unnecessary. Simple. 
Implying that you're getting upset because people have the audacity to feel offended by the insensitive MAC and Rodarte is just ridiculous, to be honest.
I was not being rude.

Everyone on here who is saying "it's just makeup" I feel should take a step back and look at themselves. Of course it's just makeup don't state the obvious when trying to make a point, it doesn't work.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Also to others who mentioned not seeing people speak out against *insert retail/department/brand here* because they support sweat shops/child labor/etc, I suggest you Google, because it's out there. Do not try to reason your argument with no ammo and backwards research.
 It is so amazing to me how some of you girls on here are so closed minded and ignorant of other peoples arguments, it's truly sad.:quote

Well,I kept reading and hearing a lot of people complaining about the name Juarez,maybe not in this thread.I just posted how I feel about the uproar and about the comments I recieved on my blog.Nothing about that was unnecessary.I'm sorry,but I just think the way you commented was intolerant.It seems to me that you are the one who is not tolerating other opinions than yours.I's not my fault that you're offended by this collection.That is more closedminded to me than people defending freedom of art.

I really didn't want to discuss so much about all that and comment negatively,but I just felt like you're comments towards me were inappropriate.That's just how I feel.
I apologize if my comments were posted in the wrong thread.
And it seems like I'm not the only one who thinks that a lot of peolpe are overreacting about this collection.

I just hope the collection will be released as soon as possible and everybody who wants will be able to get what they want from it,and enjoy the products no matter what names they have.


----------



## s0_fam0us (Jul 20, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Half N Half* 

 
_Yes, it IS just makeup. But I think in this case they are NOT just product names and it's NOT just a promo image. The names/images are obviously "inspired" by Juarez. What's going on there is terrible. I don't think anyone is directing bad feelings towards MAC because they feel the company is promoting femicide. I think people are upset because with all the people working at MAC someone didn't have enough sense to put 2 and 2 together and figure out that some people might be put off by this kind of collection._

 


While I agree that what is happening there (and elsewhere in the world) is terrible, it is actually happening. Not to sound insensitive to the conditions, MAC cannot change that. If they want to put out a collection that some people see as an accurate representation of the area then they are free to do so. And consumers are free to buy it - or not. 

Calling for MAC to alter their collection plans and demand they take action in the form of monetary reparations is ridiculous to me. As I said, i think the passion people have expressed against this collection would be better put to use in solving the problem. I understand the need to believe/fight for something, but to get the names of some cosmetic products changed? Please. 

I guess I'm just for the mantra to live and let live.


----------



## Half N Half (Jul 20, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *s0_fam0us* 

 
_Calling for MAC to alter their collection plans and demand they take action in the form of monetary reparations is ridiculous to me. As I said, i think the passion people have expressed against this collection would be better put to use in solving the problem. I understand the need to believe/fight for something, but to get the names of some cosmetic products changed? Please. _

 
I do agree with this. What's done is done and obviously changing product names at this point won't do anything but shut a few people up. The collection has already been made and that's that. I just think they could have handled it better from the start. At least now a lot more people are aware of the situation and hopefully the money that MAC is planning to donate will do some good...hopefully.


----------



## Camnagem (Jul 20, 2010)

I think the major point for me is simple.  Someone at MAC dropped the ball. 

If this entire collection were released as it is now (with no name changes, same promo image, etc) with the intent of bringing a terrible situation to light *before* the public showed their concern/outrage/disappointment, it would be an entirely different thing.  The fact that the public reaction was needed to open their eyes is sad.

I personally find it somewhat insulting and upsetting that MAC didn't seem to think that the public would care where this inspiration came from.  Maybe they didn't know?  Either way, I'm not sure what's worse...knowing the back story and doing it anyway, or not looking into something fully before signing on?


----------



## s_lost (Jul 20, 2010)

In Temptalia's discussion, I read a phrase from a woman called Alex that is perfect for this situation:

"Compassion is a wonderful quality… we are ugly without it. And no amount  of makeup will cover up that kind of ugliness."

Most of people can draw paralells of this collection based on their personal histories or studies. I think that is completely valid to compare with a lipstick called Auschwitz or Cotton Fields. Is not the situations that are being compared, but the suffering. No tragedy is worst for the ones that are living in hell.

For me, it's completely insensitive to use some product and not give a damn about its origins or inspirations.


----------



## Mabelle (Jul 20, 2010)

im sorry, but doing a collection inspired by "a serial killer's play ground" is like doing a holocaust/rawandan genocide inspired colelction for me. Nothing about it is beautiful. Are thy promoting femicide? Absolutely not. Are they trying to stir controversy? I dont think so.
I think its just so damn tasteless. Why not name an eyeshadow Gestapo? or auschwitz? I know if a product named something along those lines came out with a promo image of a dead looking girl, people would be offended, and rightly so i think. Now obviously everyone knows about the holocaust (or at least i hope they do) and its generally accepted that we do not make light of such things. I think making prtoducts with these names makes light of the situation. I mean, sure, we all love make up and take it somewhat seriously... but do you really want something that supposed to be fun and make you feel beautifil (and is well... frivilous!!) named after something so awful that is ONGOING!
It turns my stomach.

Am i dissapointed in MAC? Yes. Do i think they did it on purpose? No. I think a lot of people dropped the ball and it was a mistake. I don't think any company that does so much for victims of HIV and AIDS would ever knowingly release a collection like this. Mostly i am DISGUSTED by Rodart. How could these two rich white women, who will never know what it is like for women from these towns, release and profit off of multiple collections based on mass murder,fear and dispair? 
so ignorant.


----------



## Naynadine (Jul 20, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *s_lost* 

 
_
For me, it's completely insensitive to use some product and not give a damn about its origins or inspirations._

 
I agree with that.I don't think there's anybody involved in this discussion who doesn't care where their products are coming from,at least I hope so.But a lot of things mentionend here are just assumptions regarding the inspiration or intention,for example.So I don't think it's a lack of compassion if you don't find this collection offensive.


----------



## Purrceys (Jul 21, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Mabelle* 

 
_Am i dissapointed in MAC? Yes. Do i think they did it on purpose? No. I think a lot of people dropped the ball and it was a mistake. I don't think any company that does so much for victims of HIV and AIDS would ever knowingly release a collection like this. Mostly i am DISGUSTED by Rodart. How could these two rich white women, who will never know what it is like for women from these towns, release and profit off of multiple collections based on mass murder,fear and dispair? _

 

I agree with this. Although I was upset with MAC's initial lack of sensitivity, I feel they've heard many of the complaints and listened. Whether or not MAC has gone far enough (re: percentage of profits etc) can be debated but at least, they've at least tried to address the concerns.


I have a much bigger problem with Rodarte as I feel Rodarte's actions and responses have not been adequate. I plan on steering clear of any products that these two women produce in the future.


----------



## DarkGlamourXO (Jul 21, 2010)

..........


----------



## NappyMACDiva3 (Jul 21, 2010)

Interesting how on some blogs, sites, etc.  people are up in arms at MAC and Rodarte about this line and the clothing line.  But few have said anything about the factories conditions, etc., that have been occurring for over 15+ years.  Also how many people were concerned about Juarez before these lines were created and how many are going to be concerned and doing something about the rapes, murders, drugs, etc. after the makeup has been used and the clothes no longer fit.  

2-3 years down the line who will still care and try to make a difference?  It is so easy to say what MAC should do but what are we doing to fix the issues in the world?  Dafar still had issues going on,  various communities in the US, etc. have problems too.  What are we doing to fix the issues besides making statements.  Actions speak louder that words.  Let's boycott the factories making electronics, clothing, shoes etc and tell them to improve the conditions, etc. or we will not support them.  If your favorite jeans or shoes are made at these factories are you going to boycott them? People can boycott MAC all day,every day, but these things will still occur in Juarez without change by the people, government, and people buying the products made there.  

Also there is beauty in Juarez in the mist of everything else going on.  We have to remember that not all people are in cartels, gangs, getting raped, murdered, etc.  Also I don't think MAC had any ill intentions.  I am not on any side.  I am for the rights of all people to live a decent life without fearing for their lives, etc.  MAC is innocent until proven guilty. We should do our research before we judge.  I am currently doing more research and seeing how I can make a difference like I do in my own community.


----------



## Hypathya (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *katred* 

 
_I'd say the fact that so many people here have weighed in on their thoughts about Juarez and how it inspired/ is exploited by bot MAC and Rodarte would indicate that at least some good has come out of the situation. Several of us are more aware of the city and the dangers that face than we were earlier. So personally, I still plan on buying a few things from the collection and I'm probably going to think about their inspiration every time I wear them. Also, I'm planning on tracking down the book 2666, which came to my attention while I was looking around the internet for information on Juarez and which apparently features a fictionalised account of the series of murders there. 

Certainly, anyone is free to boycott the collection or MAC longer term for choosing to profit without clearly calling attention to the plight of those who served as the inspiration for the collection. In fact, if you think that they are acting immorally, you should boycott them. And I'd also suggest that if this is a cause that's important to you, *you should find out the names of the companies that run the maquiladoras where most of the people serve as slaves and boycott them as well.* After all, MAC and Rodarte may be indirectly benefitting from the misery of those people, but others are maintaining those miserable conditions because it turns them a healthy profit. 

Just my thoughts._

 





These are just a few:


3 Day Blinds 
20th Century Plastics 
Acer Peripherals 
Bali Company Inc 
Bayer Corp. / Medsep 
BMW 
Canon Business Machines 
Casio Manufacturing 
Chrysler 
Daewoo 
Eastman Kodak/Vermatim 
Ericsson 
Fisher Price 
Ford 
Foster Grant Corporation 
General Electric Company 
JVC 
GM 
Hasbro 
Hewlett Packard 
Hitachi Home Electronics 
Honda 
Honeywell, Inc 
Huges Aircraft 
Hyundai Precision America 
IBM 
Matsushita 
Matte 
Mercedes Benz 
MItsubishi Electronics Corp. 
Motorola 
Nissan 
Philips 
Samsonite Corporation 
Sanyo North America 
Sony Electronics 
Tiffany 
Toshiba 
VW 
Xerox 
Zenith 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lilithsnake6* 

 
_I think your answer was beautifully said. As a political science major, I know I'm aware ofsome of the unjustice in the world but I really was kinda of taken aback from reading the comments here and on temptalia how many women don't know about bordertowns or maybe have just not thought about them much. While I agree that maybe the names are slightly inappropriate, the offensive concept I find is the apathy about the disappearance of hundreds of women. While I am certainly happy that MAC will give something to Juarez (though I'm unsure how they will be able to, maybe a non-profit?), I would not have boycotted MAC. *Those factories that exploit third world countries and corruption in foreign governments that allows it, that's what should be boycotted*. Making tasteless remarks isn't a major crime for me, being a perpetuator of exploitation is. I'm not sure why MAC and Rodarte settled on these names (even with their explantation I'm not sure) but if you want to send a message, send it to the factories. And personally, I'm taking this collection with a grain of salt: I won't be buying because I simply don't like it but I am glad that it has sparked a conversation about a long-dead (in my opinion, the conversation hasn't been covered well) topic._

 
As Mexican citizen this it's truly important to me.

First of all I must say, we're not a third world country, we're one of the top 15-20 economies of the world, 14th if I recall correctly. This is a "complex" country, I know. The richest man in the world was born here and is a Mexican citizen. A large portion of our resources are own by very few. Must of our citizens live in poverty, some villages are in conditions similar to those in Africa. Middle class it's small and we have to pay twice or three times the value for most things and services from "first world". Democracy it's almost a joke and corruption in most institutions has disgusting, angry levels. As if that's not enough, we are US "little neighbor" and US it's our principal buyer, which means US sets the rules and we must follow them if we want to export our products.

Problems at our border are way to complex and involve at least, the two countries that share the border: US and Mexico. It's not only the corruption in Mexico that has lead to all this situation in Juarez (as other situations in the border, in the country) but also the corruption in US. 

As your great post say, it's not MAC but the companies, factories and corruption we must boycott. 

Anyway, I've said it before, I couldn't be happier with this. Thanks to MAC Rodarte collection all this issues are being discussed. Beauty, make up, as any art form it's not superficial but a reflection, an expression of our culture and society.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_Of course I see all the wishes to talk about the political background of this collection and share your opinions freely about it but I also think about all those members who come to this thread because they want to be informed about the beauty products themselves (textures, dupes, ...)

 Having a seperate Rodarte discussion in Chatter or Deep Thoughts forum independend from the products of this collection (not the idea behind it!) would not be disrespectful for all your opinions in any way and nobody should feel banned from here but it will make things easier to oversee I guess._

 
As much as I'm always thankful for all your devotion and hard work for all us here, this time I don't like the fact that we now have separate thread for "political discussion". Obviously, this is a very important issue for me, but besides that fact, the importance of this issue it's the fact it's growing awareness and proving make up, cosmetics and beauty topics don't have to be superficial. If a someone who it's unaware of the women murders in Juarez, comes here searching for a gorgeous pigment, reading all the comments and views, can be informed. As if that's not enough, both threads are not complete and coherent. Some posts with important views are missing the "political issues" one. Just my thoughts


----------



## LMD84 (Jul 21, 2010)

i completely agree with you NappyMacDiva3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And i know that people may completely hate me for saying this - but i'm going to anyways - if i am completely honest i think that alot of people are doing the classic 'jumping on the band-wagon' with this.  These are people that have never before thought about the isses  in Juarez and will most likely won't bother to think about them again once this collection has been and gone.

Do i like the inspiration for the collection myself - no not at all and i think it is in very poor taste.  However i'm certaintly not going to not by Mac again because of it.  They are now donating a large amount of money to the cause which i think is quite decent of them.  They know they messed up but are now trying to correct it.


----------



## s_lost (Jul 21, 2010)

I became aware of Juarez after the polemic. As I said before, I don't give credit to MAC or Rodarte for this, but to the consumers that pointed that out.

Questions concerning gender and violence are very important to me. There is violence against women going everywhere, and most of the time, even when people are well informed, they don't know everything all the time. I'm from a huge country (Brazil) reinforcing the laws againt violence, but it's a very slow process (specially for the victims). Society must became part of the discussion.

As in MAC/Rodarte case, public opinion can change things. Even by people that jus heard about the case. Their indignation is not less. The interest about the situation in Juarez will continue for a lot of people.

This is a topic concerning a MAC collection. I don't think that someone needs to prove that he/she don't buy cosmetics from a company doing animal testing or cares about where products are made. I care about all this, but I don't think that's an imperative to join the discussion.

It's to easy to say: Oh, but X, Y, Z companies do that as well. The hard thing is actually consider to let go of a company that you love.

I like MAC, but that doesn't stop me from criticizing it.


----------



## jungleland (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hypathya* 

 
_





These are just a few:


3 Day Blinds 
20th Century Plastics 
Acer Peripherals 
Bali Company Inc 
Bayer Corp. / Medsep 
BMW 
Canon Business Machines 
Casio Manufacturing 
Chrysler 
Daewoo 
Eastman Kodak/Vermatim 
Ericsson 
Fisher Price 
Ford 
Foster Grant Corporation 
General Electric Company 
JVC 
GM 
Hasbro 
Hewlett Packard 
Hitachi Home Electronics 
Honda 
Honeywell, Inc 
Huges Aircraft 
Hyundai Precision America 
IBM 
Matsushita 
Matte 
Mercedes Benz 
MItsubishi Electronics Corp. 
Motorola 
Nissan 
Philips 
Samsonite Corporation 
Sanyo North America 
Sony Electronics 
Tiffany 
Toshiba 
VW 
Xerox 
Zenith 

As Mexican citizen this it's truly important to me.

First of all I must say, we're not a third world country, we're one of the top 15-20 economies of the world, 14th if I recall correctly. This is a "complex" country, I know. The richest man in the world was born here and is a Mexican citizen. A large portion of our resources are own by very few. Must of our citizens live in poverty, some villages are in conditions similar to those in Africa. Middle class it's small and we have to pay twice or three times the value for most things and services from "first world". Democracy it's almost a joke and corruption in most institutions has disgusting, angry levels. As if that's not enough, we are US "little neighbor" and US it's our principal buyer, which means US sets the rules and we must follow them if we want to export our products.

Problems at our border are way to complex and involve at least, the two countries that share the border: US and Mexico. It's not only the corruption in Mexico that has lead to all this situation in Juarez (as other situations in the border, in the country) but also the corruption in US. 

As your great post say, it's not MAC but the companies, factories and corruption we must boycott. 

Anyway, I've said it before, I couldn't be happier with this. Thanks to MAC Rodarte collection all this issues are being discussed. Beauty, make up, as any art form it's not superficial but a reflection, an expression of our culture and society.



As much as I'm always thankful for all your devotion and hard work for all us here, this time I don't like the fact that we now have separate thread for "political discussion". Obviously, this is a very important issue for me, but besides that fact, the importance of this issue it's the fact it's growing awareness and proving make up, cosmetics and beauty topics don't have to be superficial. If a someone who it's unaware of the women murders in Juarez, comes here searching for a gorgeous pigment, reading all the comments and views, can be informed. As if that's not enough, both threads are not complete and coherent. Some posts with important views are missing the "political issues" one. Just my thoughts_

 

That's  a very good post, thank you!
And I totally agree with you about everything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I read about the Juarez murders a couple of months ago, cannot remember if in the cnn or bbc site, I didn't know anything about the maquiladoras.
I always try to be a conscious consumer, I'll try to gather informations whenever is possible.
I'll not boycott Mac for this faux pas but I'll skip this collection for sure and I'll do my research to find a way to donate to some reputable charity.

I think everyone is different and reacts accordingly to their experience to many subjects.

Violence towards women really touches me, both of my sisters had had abusive relashionships.
I'm the youngest and I remember having to comfort and counselling them, even if I was about 14 at the time.
That makes me really sensitive about this subject.


----------



## Hypathya (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

The saddest part of all this is "the donation of money" to "aid". 

As I said before, Mexico it's not a third world country, lack of money it's not the issue here. The corruption, the inequality, the lack of opportunities,... are. If money was the issue, the government has a lot and I'd given lots of it when all this began, 20 years ago (well, my parents would).

No money can compensate the loss of a beloved one. The families of all those thousands of women murdered, of all those thousands of people murdered by the drugs war that should be fought in southern US instead, or at least along, the nothern Mexico, don't claim for money  but for JUSTICE.

If your sister or mom were kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed, how much money would made you feel better??

They don't need money, but Justice, security, better and fair work conditions,...

You all probably don't know this either but I'm sharing so you can understand my point:

About a year ago there was a horrible fire in a kindergarten/nursery (sorry don't know the right word). More than 50 babies ages 1-5 died in horrible, horrible circumstances. The very few that survived had 3rd degree burnings and long term health sequels. It happened because corruption allowed to have a nursery besides a diesel storage and no emergency doors or a secure building. The governor of the state where it happened, it's involved, a state secretary it's involved and also a cousin of the first lady. Yesterday, millionaire funds (scholarships, health services for life, etc) were given to all the victims and their families during a reunion of the families with President Calderon. A mother of a deceased baby spit on the face of the president and claming "I don't need money, I want justice and all the involved ones in jail, including your cousin" left the meeting.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shadowy Lady* 

 
_I don't think anyone compared the collection to Holocaust, they compared the *femicide happening in Juarez* to it which is fair IMO. We are all people and in my mind all equal. Any form of injustice and genocide should be condemned. It's not horrible only if it happened to European Jews, it's equally disgusting if it happened to African in Rwanda, to Armenian in Turkey and to Latina women in Mexico. No human life is more precious than an other.The holocaust is very well documented but many of the tragedies i listed above are not._

 
I agree with you!!

I think to be sensitive to what touches our souls and our lives, not many can relate to what hasn't happened to themselves. 

I do think it's fair to compare this, to Holocaust, Angola, 9/11, and all tragedies from all ages and all places. Just because it didn't happened to us, it's not less horrible. There's no first prize for horror. 

Do I felt offended by the names? Not really, but then again, I've never lost a loved one or known anybody who's lost a loved one in this horrible circumstances. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *s_lost* 

 
_In Temptalia's discussion, I read a phrase from a woman called Alex that is perfect for this situation:

"Compassion is a wonderful quality… we are ugly without it. And no amount  of makeup will cover up that kind of ugliness."

* Most of people can draw paralells of this collection based on their personal histories or studies. I think that is completely valid to compare with a lipstick called Auschwitz or Cotton Fields. Is not the situations that are being compared, but the suffering. No tragedy is worst for the ones that are living in hell.
* 
For me, it's completely insensitive to use some product and not give a damn about its origins or inspirations._

 
Beautiful quoute from Alex!!

And your sentence of "It's not the situations that are being compared, but the suffering", put the exact words into my thoughts.

Thank you for your sensitivity and  clarity of mind. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jungleland* 

 
_That's  a very good post, thank you!
And I totally agree with you about everything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I read about the Juarez murders a couple of months ago, cannot remember if in the cnn or bbc site, I didn't know anything about the maquiladoras.
I always try to be a conscious consumer, I'll try to gather informations whenever is possible.
I'll not boycott Mac for this faux pas but I'll skip this collection for sure and I'll do my research to find a way to donate to some reputable charity.

I think everyone is different and reacts accordingly to their experience to many subjects.

Violence towards women really touches me, both of my sisters had had abusive relashionships.
I'm the youngest and I remember having to comfort and counselling them, even if I was about 14 at the time.
That makes me really sensitive about this subject._

 
Thank you, honey!!


----------



## Karen_B (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't think that MAC were trying to put a gloss on the situation in Juarez, but for them not to understand how a collection such as this one would be perceived is downright stupid. It's good that they have realized their mistake, though. It's great that this whole affair has raised awareness about border towns such as Juarez, but that just seems like serendipity. If the purpose of the collection was awareness, then it should have been marketed as such. Now, MAC is simply trying to do damage limitations.

For those that say that it doesn't matter, that "it's just makeup", I couldn't disagree more. If it was "just makeup", there'd be no reason not to name a lipstick Auschwitz, or an eyeshadow Suicide Bomber. Just because it's superficial, cosmetics do not exist in a vacuum and exploiting a desperate situation for commercial profit is tasteless and unethical.


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## singer82 (Jul 22, 2010)

We are all human. We make mistakes. MAC people made a mistake. Yes it is very very sad that this is happeneing. And understand why people are upset at MAC. But I think they will learn from thier mistakes. Now they will find out exactly what they are getting into when finding an inspiration for a collection and collaborating. Live and learn


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## NappyMACDiva3 (Jul 22, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hypathya* 

 
_The saddest part of all this is "the donation of money" to "aid". 

As I said before, Mexico it's not a third world country, lack of money it's not the issue here. The corruption, the inequality, the lack of opportunities,... are. If money was the issue, the government has a lot and I'd given lots of it when all this began, 20 years ago (well, my parents would).

No money can compensate the loss of a beloved one. The families of all those thousands of women murdered, of all those thousands of people murdered by the drugs war that should be fought in southern US instead, or at least along, the nothern Mexico, don't claim for money  but for JUSTICE.

If your sister or mom were kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed, how much money would made you feel better??

They don't need money, but Justice, security, better and fair work conditions,...

You all probably don't know this either but I'm sharing so you can understand my point:

About a year ago there was a horrible fire in a kindergarten/nursery (sorry don't know the right word). More than 50 babies ages 1-5 died in horrible, horrible circumstances. The very few that survived had 3rd degree burnings and long term health sequels. It happened because corruption allowed to have a nursery besides a diesel storage and no emergency doors or a secure building. The governor of the state where it happened, it's involved, a state secretary it's involved and also a cousin of the first lady. Yesterday, millionaire funds (scholarships, health services for life, etc) were given to all the victims and their families during a reunion of the families with President Calderon. A mother of a deceased baby spit on the face of the president and claming "I don't need money, I want justice and all the involved ones in jail, including your cousin" left the meeting.



I agree with you!!

I think to be sensitive to what touches our souls and our lives, not many can relate to what hasn't happened to themselves. 

I do think it's fair to compare this, to Holocaust, Angola, 9/11, and all tragedies from all ages and all places. Just because it didn't happened to us, it's not less horrible. There's no first prize for horror. 

Do I felt offended by the names? Not really, but then again, I've never lost a loved one or known anybody who's lost a loved one in this horrible circumstances. 



Beautiful quoute from Alex!!

And your sentence of "It's not the situations that are being compared, but the suffering", put the exact words into my thoughts.

Thank you for your sensitivity and  clarity of mind. 



Thank you, honey!!_

 
Wow this breaks my heart.  I didn't hear about the children until now.  Situations like that makes me work harder to make people aware of the situations and to help improve them.  You are right and the mother in the situation is right too.  Money will not bring back her child or the other children.  I do hope that the people who caused the situation learned from it and that something like that will never happen again.  Also thank you for posting the list of companies.  I plan to get started on making sure they know I don't approve of what they are doing. I plan to get others involved too.


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## hello_my_apple (Jul 23, 2010)

i spent a good amount of time reading everyone's opinion and i feel like there are good points from all sides. The thing that bothers me is the fact that i dont believe the team at MAC - or whoever creates collections took into account of the names they picked. Someone said before there is beauty in pretty much everything. Last May i went to the Kawangware slum of Kenya, and as much as this is a slum in extreme poverty, there was still beauty there, in the people and the way they conversed w/ you and welcomed you into there homes, they didnt have much - their corrupt government just left them as they are. Someone said that you can find beauty in Juarez and i agree. What i dont like is the fact that the names are so distasteful. esp. Ghostown, Factory and Sleepwalker. I think it has to be said that there is a level of disrespect towards hispanics nowadays. I would put my life on it that if it was inspired by a city in Germany where concentration camps were occupied they would NEVER think to label products like "gas chamber" or " Pile of clothes". So w/ my over analytical mind i just thought why would they think it was okay. is it racism? no. i believe they just didnt care about how it would affect the people who actually live the city it was inspired by. how come i know they dont care? after the backlash are they now going to donate money .... i'd tell them to keep it.


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## Door (Jul 23, 2010)

I agree with a lot of what hello_my_apple wrote. I still have it hard to understand why name like "Sleepwalker" would be offending. Does this word have a meaning that I as a non-native English speaker have missed?  I think "Ghost Town" and "Factory" (and some other) are borderline cases: okay as such but not so smart choices when put together with Juarez.


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## LMD84 (Jul 23, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Door* 

 
_I agree with a lot of what hello_my_apple wrote. I still have it hard to understand why name like "Sleepwalker" would be offending. Does this word have a meaning that I as a non-native English speaker have missed?  I think "Ghost Town" and "Factory" (and some other) are borderline cases: okay as such but not so smart choices when put together with Juarez._

 
i don't get sleepwalker either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is it perhaps going with the zombie like promo image?


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## spunky (Jul 23, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Door* 

 
_I agree with a lot of what hello_my_apple wrote. I still have it hard to understand why name like "Sleepwalker" would be offending. Does this word have a meaning that I as a non-native English speaker have missed?  I think "Ghost Town" and "Factory" (and some other) are borderline cases: okay as such but not so smart choices when put together with Juarez._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LMD84* 

 
_i don't get sleepwalker either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is it perhaps going with the zombie like promo image?_

 
i could be wrong, but i think it's because the women who work in the Maquiladoras going to work in the middle of the night and their working hours being outwith what is considered 'normal'. hence they're 'sleepwalking'. if i got that wrong, please feel free to correct me.


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## LMD84 (Jul 23, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *spunky* 

 
_i could be wrong, but i think it's because the women who work in the Maquiladoras going to work in the middle of the night and their working hours being outwith what is considered 'normal'. hence they're 'sleepwalking'. if i got that wrong, please feel free to correct me._

 
aha, nope that could make sence.


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## s_lost (Jul 23, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *spunky* 

 
_i could be wrong, but i think it's because the women who work in the Maquiladoras going to work in the middle of the night and their working hours being outwith what is considered 'normal'. hence they're 'sleepwalking'. if i got that wrong, please feel free to correct me._

 
Exactly what I tought. It's not very nice have to go to work like a sleepwalker, risking the own life...


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## hello_my_apple (Jul 23, 2010)

Sleepwalker is also commonly asscociated w/ common prostitution. so spunky youre also right aswell. It's basically a woman who has to work at night.


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## martiangurll (Jul 23, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Mabelle* 

 
_im sorry, but doing a collection inspired by "a serial killer's play ground" is like doing a holocaust/rawandan genocide inspired colelction for me. Nothing about it is beautiful. Are thy promoting femicide? Absolutely not. Are they trying to stir controversy? I dont think so.
I think its just so damn tasteless. Why not name an eyeshadow Gestapo? or auschwitz? I know if a product named something along those lines came out with a promo image of a dead looking girl, people would be offended, and rightly so i think. Now obviously everyone knows about the holocaust (or at least i hope they do) and its generally accepted that we do not make light of such things. I think making prtoducts with these names makes light of the situation. I mean, sure, we all love make up and take it somewhat seriously... but do you really want something that supposed to be fun and make you feel beautifil (and is well... frivilous!!) named after something so awful that is ONGOING!
It turns my stomach.

Am i dissapointed in MAC? Yes. Do i think they did it on purpose? No. I think a lot of people dropped the ball and it was a mistake. I don't think any company that does so much for victims of HIV and AIDS would ever knowingly release a collection like this. Mostly i am DISGUSTED by Rodart. How could these two rich white women, who will never know what it is like for women from these towns, release and profit off of multiple collections based on mass murder,fear and dispair? 
so ignorant._

 
I don't think they meant to base the collection on mass murder (technically I think individual murders or serial murders unless there was a mass murder I don't know about there), fear and dispair.  I think the collection was inspired by the loveliness of the women in their clothing and culture and the "sleepwalking" inspiration was the view of the women in the early morning light.  Don't think it was meant to be based on murder, fear or dispair.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *NappyMACDiva3* 

 
_Interesting how on some blogs, sites, etc.  people are up in arms at MAC and Rodarte about this line and the clothing line.  But few have said anything about the factories conditions, etc., that have been occurring for over 15+ years.  Also how many people were concerned about Juarez before these lines were created and how many are going to be concerned and doing something about the rapes, murders, drugs, etc. after the makeup has been used and the clothes no longer fit.  

2-3 years down the line who will still care and try to make a difference?  It is so easy to say what MAC should do but what are we doing to fix the issues in the world?  Dafar still had issues going on,  various communities in the US, etc. have problems too.  What are we doing to fix the issues besides making statements.  Actions speak louder that words.  Let's boycott the factories making electronics, clothing, shoes etc and tell them to improve the conditions, etc. or we will not support them.  If your favorite jeans or shoes are made at these factories are you going to boycott them? People can boycott MAC all day,every day, but these things will still occur in Juarez without change by the people, government, and people buying the products made there.  

Also there is beauty in Juarez in the mist of everything else going on.  We have to remember that not all people are in cartels, gangs, getting raped, murdered, etc.  Also I don't think MAC had any ill intentions.  I am not on any side.  I am for the rights of all people to live a decent life without fearing for their lives, etc.  MAC is innocent until proven guilty. We should do our research before we judge.  I am currently doing more research and seeing how I can make a difference like I do in my own community._

 
This type of violence is problematic in the bordertowns regardless of the factories.  And the lack of respect for women is not inclusive to Juarez or border towns with factories.  It is a growing problem with the exploitation of third world countries by using cheap labor because the citizens are desperate for jobs and will take less money than the citizens of the so called first world countries.  But I don't think boycotting MAC or other companies will stop the violence.  It will require a radical shift in the politics.  

I think it was a huge jump to a conclusion to say that Rodarte exploited the situation and purposefully disregarded the political connotations in their choice of subject.  To me (and perhaps I am being naive here) it seems they saw a thing of beauty in the border town culture and tried to capture that in the collection.  But to compare that to a collection that glorified a concentration camp or the KKK is extreme conjecture.  There is more to these bordertowns than exploitation and murder.  And I did not find any of the names to be in distaste--even "factory."  Would we have a problem with a product being named "New York" because a tragedy happened there?  That is not the only thing that happened there or that defines the city.

The over-reaction seems to me to be focusing on only the criminal aspect of the bordertowns and neglecting the actual inspiration of the collection.  

On the other hand, I am annoyed with MAC for back peddling and changing the names and doing this so called charity contribution in response to the back lash.  In a way, it appears to re-enforce the magnification of the connection to the violence in Juarez and in a way to justify the controversy.  It is all very silly to me.  (the reaction, not the violence)


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## LMD84 (Jul 24, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hello_my_apple* 

 
_Sleepwalker is also commonly asscociated w/ common prostitution. so spunky youre also right aswell. It's basically a woman who has to work at night._

 
ah thanks for clearing that up.


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## kabuki_KILLER (Jul 25, 2010)

In my honest opinion, I like what the collection has to offer. I will be buying from it anything that I really like. Humans make mistakes and art sometimes blurs the lines of productivity and insensitivity. It takes a big person to realie these errors and make corrections.


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## Hypathya (Jul 25, 2010)

Do I think Picasso's Guernica it's a beautiful picture or a pleasant sight?? Of course not!!
Do I think it's amazing? Yes. But it's gross, full of pain, anxiety, fear, horror and blood (despite the absence of red). It moves you, like it or not, you'll have something to say once you've stood in front of it... even more if you know what it's about. It was painted not make a room pretty, but to move and build consciousness. There's a very good reason why there's a copy of it at the UN building and why it was covered during the US announcement to go to war at the middle east.

Do I like The Dog by Goya?? Of course not!! Do I think it's amazing? Yes. It looks like an innocent picture, a bit boring. When you notice/read/learn it''s a dog sinking in a sand trap raising his head to catch a last and desperate breath it grosses you and makes you sick to your stomach, nauseated. You get the loneliness, the pain, the anxiety, the suffer, the emptiness, the resignation.

I could give more and more examples but my point is: Art it's an expression, it's not only meant to be beautiful but to communicate a message, an idea, a question, a thought, an emotion... It's meant to move you. The more it moves, the more it keeps you thinking, the more it keeps you feeling, the better.


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## Blushbaby (Jul 25, 2010)

Please sign the petition that has been set up to persuade MAC to donate all profits from the Rodarte collection to the people of Juarez. Over 400 signatures have been added since Friday already.

Rodarte MAC Makeup Collection and Ciudad Juarez


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## NappyMACDiva3 (Jul 27, 2010)

*Re: MAC - Rodarte Discussion*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TheTeenageMuse* 

 
_At least the discussion here is civilized. Over in Temptalia-land things are starting to get ugly. 

I don't think that MACs intentions were bad. Themes in art are oft. inspired by real-world issues. The difference here probably being that you don't consume art/a fashion show. In the same way you consume makeup products. I think that the promo pictures inspired by Juarez are excellent. As they reflect the problems faced there. 

Just thinking about my own country if MAC were to do a collection around native people and name a product Residential Schools. I'd be really upset. Just because what happened in those schools should not be connected to makeup. But if they were to do a photoshoot of an interpretation of a Residential school then i'd be okay with that...

I will still support MAC and will understand if others don't. I still like this collection but I don't think i'll buy factory or juarez. If MAC sells postcards for a charity in Juarez i'll definitely purchase it._

 
Post Cards making people aware are an excellent idea.  MAC should do it to make people even more aware. I would buy them if they gave 100% of the post cards revenue to a cause that is trying to help the Juarez situation.


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## Meisje (Jul 28, 2010)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hypathya* 

 
_I could give more and more examples but my point is: Art it's an expression, it's not only meant to be beautiful but to communicate a message, an idea, a question, a thought, an emotion... It's meant to move you. The more it moves, the more it keeps you thinking, the more it keeps you feeling, the better._

 
I like the fact that Rodarte was inspired by something dark. Sometimes fashion gets repetitive since designers routinely draw from the same dozen themes in different combinations (Victorian, Asian, the 20s, the 40s... etc). 

It's important not to confuse "drawing influence from" with "gloryfying or endorsing."

As for MAC, I think that renaming the products and making a donation is a good response to dealing with the backlash about the names. Let's be realisitic --- MAC does not have the power to stop what's happening. In fact, as a successful company, the best thing they have to offer is monetary support, just as they do with their AIDS campaigns (which all boil down to monetary support).

If you have ideas about what *can *be done by MAC to help this situation (constructive; not criticism on what *has *been done), I would encourage you to put them in a calmly worded, succinct letter to MAC.


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## s_lost (Jul 29, 2010)

Quote:

 *MAC to Donate its Global Profits from the MAC Rodarte Makeup  Collection to Benefit Newly Created Women and Girls of Juarez Initiative*

*MAC  and Rodarte apologize to the victims and their families in Juarez, the  people of Mexico, the Mexican Government and concerned global citizens*

*MEXICO CITY, México, July 29, 2010*  – In response to public concern over the limited edition MAC Rodarte  makeup collection, set to launch in fall 2010, MAC will donate all of  its global profits from this collection to a newly created initiative to  raise awareness and provide on-the-ground support to the women and  girls in Juarez. MAC and Rodarte are deeply sorry that this makeup  collection was so offensive to the people of Mexico and concerned global  citizens.
This announcement follows a meeting last evening in  Mexico City with MAC executives and Mexican government officials,  including CONAVIM (Comisión Nacional Para Prevenir y Erradicar la  Violencia Contra las Mujeres/National Commission to Prevent and  Eradicate Violence Against Women.)
During the meeting, held at the  Mexican Ministry of Foreign Affairs, this collective group committed to  working together on the overall direction of the new initiative to help  the women and girls of Juarez and to raise global awareness of their  plight. MAC executives reiterated their deep regret and reinforced that  it was never MAC’s or Rodarte’s intent to minimize the suffering of the  women and girls of Ciudad Juarez.
In the coming weeks, MAC and  Rodarte will be consulting with members of CONAVIM´s advisory board, as  well as other local and global experts, to develop a comprehensive  framework that provides grants to local and international organizations  with a track record of improving the lives of the women and girls in  Juarez.
“We are deeply sorry and apologize to everyone we  offended, especially the victims, the women and girls of Juarez and  their families. We have heard the response of concerned global citizens  loud and clear and are doing our very best to right our wrong. The  essence of MAC is to give back and care for the community and our  initial handling of this makeup collection was not reflective of MAC’s  values. MAC and Rodarte are committed to using these learnings to raise  awareness on this important issue and to leverage our unique platform to  help the women and girls of Juarez,” said MAC President John Demsey.
“Rodarte  is committed to using creativity for positive social change. As  designers, we strongly feel it is our responsibility to use ideas and  actions for the good of our global community and are truly sorry for the  offense we have caused. We are raising our voices in support of the  strong women and girls of Juarez and joining others who are working  internationally to improve their lives,” said Kate and Laura Mulleavy,  designers of Rodarte.
Last week, MAC and Rodarte announced they  would also be renaming the products and redesigning the marketing  materials associated with the collection.
MAC has a longstanding  tradition of service in Mexico, supporting important social causes in  the country such as HIV prevention and treatment. Since 2002, the MAC  AIDS Fund has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to local  entities, including Fundación Eudes, La Casa de la Sal, A.C., Ser  Humano, A.C., Mesón de la Misericordia Divina A.C., Pirana Studio, and  Fundación Unidos por un México Vivo.
MAC has had operations in Mexico since 1999. The brand currently employs more than 150 local professionals.  
 
Source: MAC to Donate its Global Profits from Rodarte Collection to Benefit Women and Girls of Juarez Initiative


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## s_lost (Jul 29, 2010)

Obviously it woul be better that all this mess didn't happen at all, but at least now there is a more appropriate response.

Research before any collection. I hope this incident teaches this to MAC. More than colors and pretty paterns, some names have a huge social meaning.


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## jungleland (Jul 30, 2010)

Well that's great news!

Even if the cynical in me thinks is  a way to protect their behinds...but all is well what it ends well, at least now the all Juarez situation is in the spot light and awareness has been spreaded.

And I might think to have a closer look at that nail polishes now!


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## m4dswine (Jul 30, 2010)

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this issue and have finally reached some kind of sensible conclusion. 

I agree with Hypatha - when I first read about this Guernica instantly sprang to mind. 

I think the problem causing element of this whole thing, is that Rodarte are two white women from fairly priviledged backgrounds as far as I can make out, who have taken an idea and used it, not to build consciousness as Guernica but to satisfy society's need for pretty things.

MAC ballsed up, no question there. They just looked at the pretty things and thought awesome, that would do well. They forgot to think about the story behind the inspiration, and didn't stop to consider whether or not Rodarte have done something crass or not.


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## Austrian_Babe (Jul 31, 2010)

I don´t like the products & colors in this collection personally, and the promo pic is weird so I won´t be buying anything from it.

Also, I wonder why MAC would choose those names, they must have known it was going to cause controversy and drama. This is definitely bad PR and definitely hurt their image.


BUT,
this controversy has been blown way out of proportion by some Youtube gurus, and most of their fans immediately jumped on that bandwagon.

What I don´t understand is why people are so offended. First of all, if it´s really about the crime victims in Juarez, ask them if they really care about the name of an overpriced nail polish people in richer countries buy/don´t buy? People with REAL problems are not going to waste any thoughts on a rich cosmetics company. Whether or not those products have "potentially offensive" names, the situation is not going to change. 

Instead of being upset about something silly like this, people should focus their energy on helping to make a change NOW. Because lets be real...once this drama has blown over, how many of the "offended bloggers/Youtuber" are really going to think about the situation in Juarez anymore? Many of the MAC boykott-ers will go back to being MAC groupies as soon as the next pretty, fluffy collection comes out that doesn´t remind us about the terrible things going on in this world.


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## Susanne (Aug 6, 2010)

*We just got the new product names! Check out!*

http://www.specktra.net/forum/f250/m...t-10-a-166446/


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## ejsimpsonboyce (Sep 19, 2010)

If I hadn't read this thread and the comments on Temptalia I would have had no idea of the situation in Juarez the collection would have come out in New Zealand and I think most people would have had no idea. If Mac were really using this as a platform to raise awareness in an artistic way then the link should have been much clearer. The same goes for Rodarte. I believe that art can be a way to promote discussion but mac really don't seem to have tried to achieve this.
Are make up products art, or are they the tools that you use to create art?


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## Hilde (Oct 3, 2010)

I thought it had been cancelled.


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## paperfishies (Nov 2, 2010)

While the colors in this collection don't appeal to me, I find the promo pic to be absolutely beautiful and stunning.  It's haunting and it makes you do a double take.  This is the ONLY MAC promo pic that has made me pause and take a long look.  It makes you look at beauty in a completely different way.  The first thing I thought of when hearing of this collection and seeing the promo pic was the Picasso painting Guernica. 

  	I don't find the collection offensive.  I can see how some people may find it a bit tasteless.

  	What I find more disturbing is that people who are usually crying "FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!" spoke out against this, have plans on boycotting it and find it so disgustingly offensive and rejoice in the possible cancellation of this line.  People only want freedom of speech when something isn't offensive to their sensitivities.

  	  From what I've read in the media, 100% of the proceeds from this line were going to benefit the females of Juarez.  Now the entire thing has been trashed.  Even though I don't find the color concept attractive in this line, I probably would have purchased multiple things in this line to have in my kit and because 100% of the proceeds are going to a charitable cause that I can get down with.  Much like the Viva Glam line. I don't like every color but I buy just about every Viva Glam product MAC comes out with, it's nice to have in my kit, nice to give away as presents and it's awesome that the proceeds go to a damn good cause.


  	I hope everyone on this board who finds this collection tasteless, offensive and sad also finds EVERYTHING produced by Bitchslap just as offensive and disgusting (because face it, names like "bruised bitch" are just as tasteless as something named "sleepwalker".  I also hope none of you own anything produced in a sweatshop.

  	Practice what you preach, don't be a hypocrite.


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## User38 (Nov 2, 2010)

^^

  	 Rodarte was cancelled.. as in finished, not ever sold.

  	What political/ethical repercussions can stem from it? none... why? because Rodarte was just the artistic expression thru makeup of the already existing conditions and situation in Juarez...

  	repeat: the situation concerning women in Juarez existed before the MAC Rodarte collex.... why is this even coming up again?


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