# Catherine Pics: Women of All Ages (cont. from MAC Chat)



## Turbokittykat (Nov 30, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *banana* 
_I am kind of disappointed by Catherine's picture.  I was hoping for something classier, not grandma got a new leather jacket._

 
I'm disappointed by this comment. There's no need to be so rude. We can't all be 18 forever and I think she looks stunning, especially for someone in her 60s!


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## roxybc (Nov 30, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *banana* 
_I am kind of disappointed by Catherine's picture. I was hoping for something classier, not grandma got a new leather jacket._

 

Yeah, me too!  I really think she looks like Debbie Harry from Blondie!


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## Turbokittykat (Nov 30, 2005)

Maybe the 20-somethings and under can tell us ancient 30-somethings and over what we're allowed to wear then? Knitted bed socks? Fleecy nighties? Tweed jackets and twin sets?

*rolls eyes*

Way to be judgemental people, (some of you, not all of you, obviously).

MAC... All races, all sexes, all ages (but only if you dress as you're "supposed" to).


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## roxybc (Nov 30, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_I'm disappointed by this comment. There's no need to be so rude. We can't all be 18 forever and I think she looks stunning, especially for someone in her 60s!_

 

I don't think she was being *so* rude.  It's just a comment, we all make them, and we're all entitled to our own opinions, but I think they could have done a much better job with her picture in this case.  They wantred an older MAC icon to appeal to older women, but the pic to me makes it looks like she's trying to be younger.  I don't think the older MAC customers will really like this picture, and it may result in lower sales. I agree, a classier picture would have been much more appealing for the older crowd, not to mention the younger crowd as well.

More natural looking.  I think her fans will have a hard time recognizing her


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## Turbokittykat (Nov 30, 2005)

Yes, you're entitled to your opinions, but it could have been left after 'I'd hoped for a classier look' had been stated. The grandma comment was totally uncalled for. And if you're left in any doubt as to whether it was rude, consider whether it's something you could comfortably say to Ms. Deneuve's face.

Edited to add:
And speaking as an older (although not oldest, by any stretch) MAC customer, I think she looks fantastic and I will certainly be buying something from the collection. I am fairly sure my mother, who is in her early 50s, will agree with me. I'll ask her next time I speak to her because I'm interested in the opinion of someone who actually knows what a 50+ year old MAC customer thinks.


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## Turbokittykat (Nov 30, 2005)

The only thing I'm really concerned about is whether they've been equally heavy-handed with the photo retouching as with previous Icons. It looks as though they may have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I'm not totally wow-ed by the collection, but then again, I own so much MAC, they'd be hard pushed to knock me down with anything, I expect! I'm looking forward to it, and will be hoping I can afford the quads and a few other things when they're out.


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## banana (Nov 30, 2005)

Sorry everyone, I didnt mean to offend anyone with my comments!  I'm just a little tired of MAC trying to make everything look so "edgy" and was expecting softer, more classic look for this collection to show the brand's versatility.  Of course I don't have a problem with older people wearing leather coats!  But it's the combination of the coat, the smokey eyes, the dark nailpolish, the hairstyle, cheesy background that just looks kind of... bleh.  Anyway... I'm taking my comment down.


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## rouquinne (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_ I'm interested in the opinion of someone who actually knows what a 50+ year old MAC customer thinks._

 
would you settle for the opinion of a 45-year-old MAC customer who's been with the company since the beginning and LOVES the Icon series???

i wear smokey eyes - for day - quite often.

i got a new leather jacket this fall - one that looks like Mrs. Peel wore it in _The Avengers_ - the original, not Uma's bad remake.  Google it if you have to young'uns!

today i bought leopard-print stilettos because i've been craving them for months.

and when i had my consult with the plastic surgeon for my Botox injections last week, he told me that i was the youngest-looking over 40 person he had EVER seen in his practice and he and his assistant SWORE they were not lying!

i don't feel like i'm over 40, and i don't look like it - though those over-air-brushed photos of Mme Deneuve are a bit much!

i'm nobody's mother and no one's grandma and i'll be damned if i'll be pigeon-holed, at this age or any other!


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## blueyedlady87 (Dec 1, 2005)

*Disapointing*

I know I'm gonna get alot of crap for saying this... but I'm going to anyway. (And yeah, I know the whole MAC motto..all ages, races, sexes, etc.) But I honestly think MAC should stick to it's target group. Which is like teens-30s. I mean, how many teenagers out there are going to want to run out and buy makeup that is modeled by someone who could be their Grandma? I know that me and my friends won't. I mean Christina Aguilara & Pam Anderson were hot sellers because young girls want to look like that, Catherine's look will not sell as much. Most older women (my mother included) feel uncomfortable shopping at MAC, seeing as it is a young, hip brand; they prefer Estee Lauder or Lancome or something more sophisticated/mature. (Yes I kno MAC is a prodeuct of EL, but the colors and the whole lines are so completely different that I consider them to be unique of eachother.) I would love to see Paris Hilton, Angelina Jolie, Gwen Stefani, or someone like that as a model. People like them will appeal to MACs customers more. I am very sorry if I offend anyone here. I'm just looking at it from a marketing perspective.  :roll:


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## Turbokittykat (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rouquinne* 
_i'm nobody's mother and no one's grandma and i'll be damned if i'll be pigeon-holed, at this age or any other!




_

 
YAY! Go you!


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## roxybc (Dec 1, 2005)

I just think that Catherine kind of "sold her self out" by letting MAC make her look like that.  She's a true beauty, and that's not how she usually looks.  People admire her for her natural beauty and grace, and the promo pics for her icon collection do not capture that.  I don't think any of the comments on here were meant to be hurtful or to suggest that "older" people should not wear MAC makeup.  I think some people took the comments a little too personal.  I just don't think that picture will appeal to MAC's intended target market of this icon collection.

They made her look too different and unrecognizable to her fans, because she doesn't look that way normally.  Now take the picture I posted of Debbie Harry - she looks like that all the time, so a picture similar to the MAC one of Catherine would capture the essence of the collection perfectly, partially becuase it would capture who she (Debbie Harry) really is.

Aggree/Dissagree??


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## Turbokittykat (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_I'm just looking at it from a marketing perspective.  :roll:_

 
No you aren't. You've quite clearly shown that you've missed the point entirely. Whilst you and your teenage friends may not buy this collection, it will appeal to an entire section of the makeup buying community that MAC are also aiming to attract. Y'see MACs target audience is everybody, which is where the All Races, All Sexes, All Ages bit (that you so casually dismissed) comes in. They want to sell to EVERYONE, which from a business point of view makes perfect sense. And while you may believe that the majority of MACs customers are young people wanting wild colours because that's the impression you get from Internet groups, you're wrong. It varies a bit by location, of course, but the bulk of MACs business is from people wanting more subtle looks, and regardless of what you think, plenty of older customers shop at MAC. Ask any MAC MA if you don't believe me. In fact Son_Risa posts here and she works for MAC, so feel free to ask her.

Think about it, why would MAC not want to target the older demographic? After all, teenagers in general have nowhere near as much to spend as more mature customers. MAC would be pretty silly to ignore them, don't you think? And they are just the people this collection is aimed at. This collection will fly off the shelves. The older customers will love it and I don't think MAC will be in the least bit bothered that you and your friends aren't buying it.


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## Turbokittykat (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *roxybc* 
_I just think that Catherine kind of "sold her self out" by letting MAC make her look like that.  She's a true beauty, and that's not how she usually looks.  People admire her for her natural beauty and grace, and the promo pics for her icon collection do not capture that.  I don't think any of the comments on here were meant to be hurtful or to suggest that "older" people should not wear MAC makeup.  I think some people took the comments a little too personal.  I just don't think that picture will appeal to MAC's intended target market of this icon collection.

They made her look too different and unrecognizable to her fans, because she doesn't look that way normally.  Now take the picture I posted of Debbie Harry - she looks like that all the time, so a picture similar to the MAC one of Catherine would capture the essence of the collection perfectly, partially becuase it would capture who she (Debbie Harry) really is.

Aggree/Dissagree??_

 
I think it's possible that she was all for the idea of trying a different look. I don't know for sure, of course, but I am certain if I was approached by MAC for this kind of project, I'd jump at the chance to reinvent myself temporarily. I know my mum would. As I've said, she's in her early 50s and she loves to experiment with her look. She often changes her hair colour and style and she's far, far more fashion conscious than I am. I think most people would like the chance to have MAC reinvent them, and I don't think being 50-something or 60-something would necessarily change that. I imagine she had a lot of fun doing this. 

I think she looks great. I agree she's a natural beauty, but I think that still shows, even though she's being portrayed in a different way. I certainly don't think the photo will put anyone off. If anything the marketing message is 'with MAC you can look like this when you are 60+'. It may not actually be a true message, but that's marketing for you.

The only comment I took offence at was the 'grandma' bit because it was totally uncalled for and very disrespectful. I'm glad that the poster has clarified that she didn't mean it that way. It upset me because I know that sort of comment would have been deeply hurtful to someone like my mum who cares very much about how she looks and works very hard to look as good as possible.


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## PrettyKitty (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_ The older customers will love it and I don't think MAC will be in the least bit bothered that you and your friends aren't buying it._

 
.. and me!! I'll buy at least 10 thing from this collection! and I'm only 20 years old. A pink lipgloss is a pink lipgloss, on a 20 years old or a 40 years old, what really matters is how you wear it and if you like it. There isn't a pink lipgloss only made for grandmothers..

I was also one of those girls who loved Naturally Eccentric... MAC isn't only bright colors.. neutrals, gold, soft pink, muted shades are nice too!


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## Turbokittykat (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *PrettyKitty* 
_There isn't a pink lipgloss only made for grandmothers.._

 
I'd swear that some of these girls think makeup and fashion only exists for the under 25s...

I'm planning to buy several things from this collection too.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *PrettyKitty* 
_I was also one of those girls who loved Naturally Eccentric... MAC isn't only bright colors.. neutrals, gold, soft pink, muted shades are nice too!_

 
I'm sorry, but unless you are willing to swear your eternal devotion to lime green and hot pink eyeshadow and red eye liner, (preferably worn together, with blue lipstick), you're going to have to be consigned to the grandma group.


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## Classic Beauty (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *roxybc* 
_I just think that Catherine kind of "sold her self out" by letting MAC make her look like that.  She's a true beauty, and that's not how she usually looks.  People admire her for her natural beauty and grace, and the promo pics for her icon collection do not capture that.  I don't think any of the comments on here were meant to be hurtful or to suggest that "older" people should not wear MAC makeup.  I think some people took the comments a little too personal.  I just don't think that picture will appeal to MAC's intended target market of this icon collection.

They made her look too different and unrecognizable to her fans, because she doesn't look that way normally.  Now take the picture I posted of Debbie Harry - she looks like that all the time, so a picture similar to the MAC one of Catherine would capture the essence of the collection perfectly, partially becuase it would capture who she (Debbie Harry) really is.

Aggree/Dissagree??_

 
I agree completely and totally.


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## Viva_la_MAC_Girl (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_I know I'm gonna get alot of crap for saying this... but I'm going to anyway. (And yeah, I know the whole MAC motto..all ages, races, sexes, etc.) But I honestly think MAC should stick to it's target group. Which is like teens-30s. I mean, how many teenagers out there are going to want to run out and buy makeup that is modeled by someone who could be their Grandma? I know that me and my friends won't. I mean Christina Aguilara & Pam Anderson were hot sellers because young girls want to look like that, Catherine's look will not sell as much. Most older women (my mother included) feel uncomfortable shopping at MAC, seeing as it is a young, hip brand; they prefer Estee Lauder or Lancome or something more sophisticated/mature. (Yes I kno MAC is a prodeuct of EL, but the colors and the whole lines are so completely different that I consider them to be unique of eachother.) I would love to see Paris Hilton, Angelina Jolie, Gwen Stefani, or someone like that as a model. People like them will appeal to MACs customers more. I am very sorry if I offend anyone here. I'm just looking at it from a marketing perspective.  :roll:_

 
So if you know MAC's disclaimer - then why do you choose to ignore it?  *All Ages* * All Sexes * *All Races*.  ( Doesn't All Ages mean anything ) or did I miss something or is there small print that I didn't get to read?   I'm going to assume your of a "younger" generation  and thats why your clearly making this statement.. if you were oh lets say 40 - 60 would you be saying this as well ? - There is no age limit to what a person can wear  or do for that matter. ( If the so choose to do so ) ..... HELL look at Tina Tuner still struting her self on stage and she is well over 60 and STILL LOOKIN GOOD and her MAKEUP is SLAMMIN!!!  ( MAC SHOULD MAKE HER A ICON!!! )

MAC will never have a problem marketing to anyone - NO matter who they get for an ICON.   Hell they had Diana Ross and she is of an older generation as well - they sure as hell had NO problem selling that line there were ALL walks of ages when that line launched ( and I was at the counter when it came out ) Teens, 20's and as you say the "older" crowd.

If someone feels uncomfortable for shopping at MAC thats on them - not the age of the person. I know if you ask some of the gals on here older or not - you see ALL AGES at the MAC counter.

How do we know Catherine Deneuve sold out - ever thought that was her style???  Maybe she wanted to glam up - doesn't matter it was "her" choice.

If you don't like her line cause its older - you don't have to choose to buy it...   She is a ICON - no matter what.


& thats my perspective.


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## absolut_blonde (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

  I'm just looking at it from a marketing perspective  
 

Young people are hardly the only ones who buy makeup. My mom is 56 and wears MAC lipsticks almost exclusively. 

Although it may not seem like it here or on MUA, makeup addicts like us are actually the minority. I'm sure *much* of MAC's sales comes from your everyday consumer. If MAC ignored their 'older' customer demographic, I guarantee they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

It's Marketing 101-- appeal to as many customers as possible, which is exactly what they're doing.


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## blueyedlady87 (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_No you aren't. You've quite clearly shown that you've missed the point entirely. Whilst you and your teenage friends may not buy this collection, it will appeal to an entire section of the makeup buying community that MAC are also aiming to attract. Y'see MACs target audience is everybody, which is where the All Races, All Sexes, All Ages bit (that you so casually dismissed) comes in. They want to sell to EVERYONE, which from a business point of view makes perfect sense. And while you may believe that the majority of MACs customers are young people wanting wild colours because that's the impression you get from Internet groups, you're wrong. It varies a bit by location, of course, but the bulk of MACs business is from people wanting more subtle looks, and regardless of what you think, plenty of older customers shop at MAC. Ask any MAC MA if you don't believe me. In fact Son_Risa posts here and she works for MAC, so feel free to ask her.

Think about it, why would MAC not want to target the older demographic? After all, teenagers in general have nowhere near as much to spend as more mature customers. MAC would be pretty silly to ignore them, don't you think? And they are just the people this collection is aimed at. This collection will fly off the shelves. The older customers will love it and I don't think MAC will be in the least bit bothered that you and your friends aren't buying it._

 
Lol! I do see your point. No need to be bitter!!! But think about this: of all the makeup brands out there (I'm talking high-end, not drug store) which do people MOST (not always, mind you) associate with bright/fun colors, trendy, urban-chic, sexy and let's be honest- young?? It's MAC. I'm not saying that older women can't shop at MAC (I sure plan to when I'm older!) The point I was trying to make was that by having a 60 (or whatever) year old model, there is a broad fanbase MAC isn't appealing to. MAC may gain some new older fans, but they will also lose some younger fans. And it's very true that the customers may vary based on location. In my city it is rare to see someone over 40 shopping at MAC. I chalk this up to the loud, hip music, & the fact that all the MAs (again, at least in my city) are young and usually wear very extreme, gorgeous makeup. Most older women are intimidated by all that. Where I live, MAC is a teenage brand through and through. And as for your comment about teens having less money than more "mature" women.. we do actually have jobs; in addition to our parents income! I probably spend about $200-$500 at MAC in a 6 month period. 

You also said that the majority of MACs customers want a subtle look (by the way, I never said MAC should be all about the wild, fun look!). Thats quite wrong. I worked in a Macys and people who wanted a serious, more plain look went to Clinique or Chanel. If you want a fun, young, modern look you go to MAC. 

And no.. they definetly wouldn't miss a few customers business but all in all I think they will lose a bit of allure from their younger fans, which could eventually hurt them. Alls I'm saying is that they could have chose a better model who would have appealed to a larger demographic. Thats all!! I'm not hating on older women. Let's just all calm down!! Lol!


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## ms.marymac (Dec 1, 2005)

I get a mix at my counter, some want dramatic colors, some want natural colors...everyone from teenagers to women in their 60's.  I did a woman's makeup the other day who was old enough to be my grandmother.  Sometimes the older women do get a little uncomfortable with all the younger MAs, but there are a few of us in our 30s (cough cough) so it evens out.  


I think she looks lovely in the photos, maybe she was ready to try something different.  It will show women her age that it's ok to have a little spunk.


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## aziajs (Dec 1, 2005)

I was going to stay out of this conversation entirely but I feel the need to add something.  I think that those who think that MAC is geared toward younger people are a little off base.  It appeals to everyone.  I'm 25, my mom is 54, my grandmother is 75 and we all wear it.  Now, we do wear different things and we wear them in different ways but it just shows that MAC is for everyone.  I will say that I was actually thinking about my makeup the other day and just how long I'll be able to wear teal metallic eyeshadow.  It won't be that much longer.  I'm getting older and a lot of the bold colors and techniques I like to use now won't be suitable for me as I get older.  I'll still wear MAC but it will be more age appropriate.  My mother would never wear her makeup the way I do and she shouldn't.  There is nothing worse than an older women who refuses to age with grace and who is still trying to hold on to her youth and prove "she's still got it."  With Catherine I think they were going for an edgy look.  I personally wouldn't have gone in that direction.  I think it's a bit much.......but it's art.


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## blueyedlady87 (Dec 1, 2005)

*Ok, i get it*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ms.marymac* 
_I get a mix at my counter, some want dramatic colors, some want natural colors...everyone from teenagers to women in their 60's.  I did a woman's makeup the other day who was old enough to be my grandmother.  Sometimes the older women do get a little uncomfortable with all the younger MAs, but there are a few of us in our 30s (cough cough) so it evens out.  


I think she looks lovely in the photos, maybe she was ready to try something different.  It will show women her age that it's ok to have a little spunk._

 
Yeah, I totally get what your saying. My mom gets a pretty natural look at MAC too. 30 is not old at all!! I was thinking like 60, 70. 

I think what I said was kinda blown out of proportion. Let me restate: Personally, it's hard for ME to relate a 60year old. I'd rather see someone young, fun, and a lil wild. But if you can be 60 and look like that, then by all means flaunt it.

K. Sorry if I offended anyone!


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## ms.marymac (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACgirl* 
_yea..lets all just calm down and be happy that catherine is a mac icon, and we have another great collection to look foward too. I mean seriously all ages shop at mac, and to tell ya the truth some people of all ages are put off by mac beucase of the colors they see...young and older. As for the promo pic, i think its great that she can rock otu those clothes and style, its like a magazine cover or something, very glam but dotn expect the celeb to look like that in reality, they are showing signs of versatilty and such. either way mac rocks and catherine still rocks..._

 
See, that's what I was thinking.  A lot of their promo pics are meant to grab your attention. Sort of like a lot of the crazy things we see on runways...a lot of people don't really wear the clothes the same way.   A woman her age could buy one of those palettes and a laquer and wear in a way that makes her feel comfortable.  Maybe wear the dark nail polish with a simple suit for if she was feeling saucy.  Think of the photo they used for Ornamentalism, who wears their makeup like that? haha


Thanks Barbie, I don't feel old unless someone younger asks what it was like before MTV/cable, lol.


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## SugarAsh182 (Dec 1, 2005)

So.... yeah.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I really want that pink lipglass too! It looks lovely! I'll definetly be picking up the quads as well because I am a quad whore. But that's about it for this collection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




As for the other discussion... I just wanted to add that my 46 year old mother and my 80 (yes 80) year old grandma both love MAC just as much as I do. And not just the neutrals.... my grandma wears Sashmi Mimi lipstick, which is brighter than I'd ever dare to wear lol! My mom sticks to the neutrals pretty much, but she is starting to like shimmer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think you can wear whatever color that you feel confident in.


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## Viva_la_MAC_Girl (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ms.marymac* 
_See, that's what I was thinking.  A lot of their promo pics are meant to grab your attention. Sort of like a lot of the crazy things we see on runways...a lot of people don't really wear the clothes the same way.   A woman her age could buy one of those palettes and a laquer and wear in a way that makes her feel comfortable.  Maybe wear the dark nail polish with a simple suit for if she was feeling saucy.  Think of the photo they used for Ornamentalism, who wears their makeup like that? haha


Thanks Barbie, I don't feel old unless someone younger asks what it was like before MTV/cable, lol._

 
Or if you know the very first song that aired on MTV...LOL

( I totally agree with your statement - as I made in mine )   here here!!


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## Liz (Dec 1, 2005)

oh my gosh... it's just one collection people... besides mac fans, not that many people remember every single collection. and the collections that are coming out are definitely drawing in a lot more of the market: the disney TLCs and this icon one in particular. 

when i go to my counter (which is often), people don't really notice the new collections unless the muas tell them about it. so this ONE collection isn't going to push people away. it will be bringing people in. and with the packaging, younger people will probably like it too and buy it. my counter does get a lot of older women. so it's going to sell out around my area. and as far as younger people (myself included since i'm only 22), not everyone likes bright colors. and if people don't like the new icon/collection, then they can go right past it and go to sushi flower and pink poodle.


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## rouquinne (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_...I know the whole MAC motto..all ages, races, sexes, etc.) But I honestly think MAC should stick to it's target group. Which is like teens-30s._

 
really?

if that were true, then why wouldn't Lauder drop MAC's driving motto when they bought the company - or now?

why would they get 3 women in their 60s to act as ICONS???

 Quote:

  I know that me and my friends won't.  
 
your loss.

 Quote:

  Catherine's look will not sell as much.  
 
you have a crystal ball???

the Icon series products sell out.  have you seen what people are asking for Liza PM palettes?

 Quote:

  Most older women (my mother included) feel uncomfortable shopping at MAC, seeing as it is a young, hip brand; they prefer Estee Lauder or Lancome or something more sophisticated/mature.  
 
MOST older women?

how many have you surveyed?

at the last 3 MAC seminars i attended, the over 35s out-numbered the under 30s.

i've been wearing MAC since the company started, are you suggesting that i should stop wearing product i love because i'm too old?????

EL's colours are chalky and Lancome has limited range of stuff and they still don't make decent foundation!

 Quote:

  I am very sorry if I offend anyone here. I'm just looking at it from a marketing perspective.  :roll:  
 
if it didn't work from a marketing perspective, do you think the company would do it???

"older" women are a consumer force to be reckoned with these days!


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## sigwing (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ms.marymac* 
_I get a mix at my counter, some want dramatic colors, some want natural colors...everyone from teenagers to women in their 60's.  I did a woman's makeup the other day who was old enough to be my grandmother.  Sometimes the older women do get a little uncomfortable with all the younger MAs, but there are a few of us in our 30s (cough cough) so it evens out.  


I think she looks lovely in the photos, maybe she was ready to try something different.  It will show women her age that it's ok to have a little spunk._

 
What's wrong with being in your 30's?

I'd totally missed this ridiculous thread till now.  I echo Rouquinne's comments.  It's great that some kids get to spend $500 a month, plus their parents income!, on makeup and get to post at websites like that makes them special and someone to be bowed down to by some of us who might even be over 40. (cough cough)  I can't believe some of the condescending remarks like "older" women have "spunk" because they like to buy whatever makeup brand.  I bought Mary Quant in my teens, Clinique and Lancome in my 20's & 30's, along with EL sometimes, and several others.  I make three times as much money now as I did then, and I buy an assortment of things, but prefer MAC eyeshadows.  So what.  I didn't know there were age categories or requirements, or judgmental kids looking down their noses at me and laughing at me behind my back for it.  Thanks for enlightening me.  I've got some great MA's that are genuine women who don't do that, I would bet on it, and I'd guess laugh more at the teenager coming in with her mom trying to pick out what eyeshadow to get, taking a bunch of time to get just the right one and make the big decision, and my MA can wait on me in the meantime and I pick up several e/s and various other items and she checks me out while the little girl finally decides on a pot of "Hush."

This Catherine collection looks wonderful, and I don't understand the comments about her age, etc., because as soon as everyone gets their hauls of it, they'll forget her and go on to the next collection or wondering what is coming out next that they can look forward to.

As far as "young" models or whatever, I'd agree with the Angelina or Gwen, but Paris Hilton?  You've got to be kidding.  I guess if you want to iconize someone who is only famous because they market themself, they are "lucky" enough to have been born into a billionaire family and they can afford to make their own perfume....then while I might consider that a weird sort of person to admire, what do I know....I'm old and apparently have different values.  I've posted here at this website because I've ALWAYS loved cosmetics and collected makeup, discovered MAC several years ago & have thoroughly enjoyed it & found a lot of "enthusiasts" here, but hadn't felt offended by any kind of age-related prejudice or snobbery until I read this thread.  I'm going to have to be more selective if I ever come back and click on anything to read again.  There are a lot of nice people here, I've thought so far, but maybe it is silly for someone my age trying to join in what I thought was a community of women from all over the world, all ages, races, etc.  I can assure you, though, I do not buy MAC or anything else to try to be "young."


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## mima (Dec 1, 2005)

whoa, makeup is supposed to be fun! :/ sigwig, everyone here contributes valuable things to specktra. i hope you continue to particpate in the forums.


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## ms.marymac (Dec 1, 2005)

Hmm.  I think maybe my post wasn't clear.  The "cough cough" was a subtle way of saying I was in my 30's.  I guess my dry sense of humor doesn't translate well on the computer screen, haha. 

When I said the pic would let older women know it was ok to have "spunk" (meaning the edgy look Catherine is sporting), I was refering to the women that come to me and ask how they can wear certain looks.  Some women will come to the counter and think they can't find anything that they can pull off.   I see a lot of women in their 30's and up that have been told by the media that they have to look a certain way.  I would personally never tell a woman, "Oh, you can't wear that!" It was meant in a good way.


----------



## n_j_t (Dec 1, 2005)

Wow--did the Liza and Diana Icon collections cause such a flap? Because, those two women are certainly icons, but they're not 18  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just wish they wouldn't airbrush the hell out of them.

Paris Hilton will be an Icon over my cold dead 29-year-old body.

I'm disappointed in the quads -- there aren't many LE colours. I like neutrals, but...meh. Maybe I need to see them in person. I do like that pink lipglass though...


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## Juneplum (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACgirl* 
_lets all just calm down and be happy that catherine is a mac icon, and we have another great collection to look foward too, and catherine still rocks..._

 
amen. ok, lemme open up the  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  this is MY opinion. for whatever reason i feel that older women are not seen as beautiful by many people in america. now, i'm not saying this applies to _everyone_, but youth especially when it comes to women seems to be the most revered.  older women are no longer seen as beautiful and vibrant.. just older, grandma, dated etc., which is why so many have plastic surgery to keep a youthful appearance. i mean the comment about being a grandma in a leather jacket was just uncalled for, but is indicative of the views many hold when it comes to older women. (banana i know u recanted, so i'm not trashing you hon.)

 it is a double standard because older men are not held to the same belief. sean connery, jack nicholson, michael douglas are seen as dashing, aging gracefully, can still get major roles as love interests, etc.,  while older actresses rarely are. they are just seen as old, washed up, over the hill.  they will cast the much older male actor with a female lead role/love interest 1/2 his age and that's ok, but rarely do you see the same with an older actress and a 1/2 her age male lead actor/love interest. 

the fact is that catherine deneuve is a BEAUTIFUL, ELEGANT lady AND an ICON. always has been, always will be.


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## bluegrassbabe (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_j_t* 
_Wow--did the Liza and Diana Icon collections cause such a flap? Because, those two women are certainly icons, but they're not 18  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just wish they wouldn't airbrush the hell out of them.

Paris Hilton will be an Icon over my cold dead 29-year-old body.

I'm disappointed in the quads -- there aren't many LE colours. I like neutrals, but...meh. Maybe I need to see them in person. I do like that pink lipglass though..._

 
Paris Hilton as an Icon? A glorified porn star who speaks in 2 word sentences? She is disgusting. That would be the day I threw every MAC product I owned in the garbage can.


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## Juneplum (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_j_t* 
_ Paris Hilton will be an Icon over my cold dead body._

 

my sentiments exactly.


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## KJam (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *bluegrassbabe* 
_Paris Hilton as an Icon? A glorified porn star who speaks in 2 word sentences? She is disgusting. That would be the day I threw every MAC product I owned in the garbage can._

 
Ditto. I can't believe she now has a perfume. I try to think of what she must smell like, and all I think of is spermicide!


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## Luthien (Dec 1, 2005)

Truthfully, whomever is chosen to be a MAC Icon *has* to be a "person of a certain age" (older).  You get to be an Icon by having an established career.  Diana Ross, Catherine Deneuve, and Liza Minelli are all legends in their own right, partly because they've been around for more than 5 minutes!  I don't want to see Lindsay Lohan or Hilary Duff as an Icon because frankly, they aren't at that stage yet.  And Paris Hilton shouldn't even be in the running, she's an anti-Icon!

Ok, now back to the actual collection itself.  Being kind of a rube when it comes to makeup brushes, what is a kabuki brush and what exactly does it do?


----------



## Hawkeye (Dec 1, 2005)

Personally, I think she looks....Ok. 

For some reason I'm not loving that jacket on her or the hairstyle. I think it's amazing MAC chooses more mature women instead of the "it" items of today. Like Christina, or Gwen Stefani. Seriously, they are hot now but they will quickly become like RuPaul and in after 3 more years no one will remember who the hell they are. These mature women have more standing.

I still hate the jacket, and I just dont like the picture in general. I think she's a beautiful woman (after I found out who she was lol) but seriously I'm not fond of the picture.


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## Turbokittykat (Dec 1, 2005)

OK barbie_doll_713, this is the last time I’m going to address you because I know it’s pointless. You are just too young to fully understand the retail market you are trying to talk about and you’re too young to be able to participate properly in a sensible debate. You're already quite certain you know how it is. I’m going to try very hard not to be sarcastic and condescending, although that’s quite difficult because you’re just so wrong, and so convinced you’re right. Still, having been 16 myself once, I remember that I thought I knew everything at that age too.

Firstly, I’m not bitter, I’m just totally incredulous that someone with so little knowledge of the MAC ethos, their market and their marketing strategy would be talking with such certainty, and refusing to take note of what anyone else has said. I suggested you ask a MAC MA to back up what I said about a large proportion of MACs business coming from customers who want neutral or subtle looks. You didn’t bother, you just dismissed it as “wrong” on the basis that you have “worked at Macy’s”. You may well have worked at Macy’s but you have not worked for MAC. I know that for a fact because you are too young. The following is a comment posted very recently on the Live Journal mac_cosmetics group by a current MAC MA. She’s talking about the Catherine Devenue collection.

_” the majority of MAC users don't wear bright shadows. Sure there's a bunch of us who do, and yes, that's what MAC is known for . . . *but as a MAC artist, I'd say that 75% of the people that come in are scared by the likes of Electric Eel, SUshi Flower etc.* Also, the collection is supposed to reflect the Icon. Catherine Deneuve isn't someone most of us (in this community) ever even heard of. She's of a different generation. And actually, I think it's a great idea to have something more geared towards older women. I myself was a bit disappointed in the Holiday shadow sets this year, because I don't feel that there's something for everyone. The cool palette is the only one anyone over the age of 50 has even looked at. Yes, older women can wear color, but it's not how they were raised and not something they feel comfortable in. NE flew off the shelves with that demographic. They can get away with more muted tones. I don't know. I like that MAC finally has an icon for more mature women. Almost every other collection is geared towards people like us.”_

I’ve seen the same said by several other MAC MAs and the girls who work at my local MAC counter say exactly the same thing. If you actually ask someone who works for MAC you’ll find that bright colours do not makeup the bulk of MAC sales and that MAC already has a customer base of more mature people. I see them myself, browsing at the counter almost every time I go there. It may well be rare in your city, (although at 16 I doubt I would have noticed who else was shopping in a store because I was usually thinking more about what I wanted), however the majority of MAC MAs will tell you, it’s not rare in most other locations. There was a MAC MA on LJ a little while ago who was complaining that at her counter people only ever wanted brown eye shadow. She wanted to ask for a transfer to a different area so she could do makeovers with some of the brighter colours occasionally! If I had the spare time, and if I thought it would do any good at all, I would go and find some of her posts.

As for your assertion that younger customers will not buy much from this collection,  (and I don’t see why they wouldn’t – a pink lipglass is a pink lipglass, as someone has already said), even if you are correct, your claim that MAC will lose customers over it is not correct. They will be right back for the next collection, which, knowing MAC, will be out 2 weeks after the Icon collection. You’ve said yourself, if someone wants bright, edgy colours, they go to MAC. So where else are they going to go? It’s highly unlikely that a large proportion of the younger customers are going to find somewhere else to get their fix of brights in the short space of time before MAC brings out the next collection. MAC knows full well that they’re not going to lose you, you’ll all be back. And in the meantime, the Icon collection will sell to the more mature customers.

I know you’re not hating older women, you’re just not understanding them at all, and at 16 that’s not particularly surprising.

Still, I already know from what you’ve written so far that you will not accept a word of this and that you are 100% convinced that you know exactly how the world works. I’d hope you will at least think about what I’ve said though.

I’d love to be able to show this to you when you are 50 and see what you think then!


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## Cruella (Dec 1, 2005)

Turbokittykat, will you marry me?  In fact, how about all us "older" chicks get together and have a big, ol' luv fest?


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## lovemichelle (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_I know I'm gonna get alot of crap for saying this... but I'm going to anyway. (And yeah, I know the whole MAC motto..all ages, races, sexes, etc.) But I honestly think MAC should stick to it's target group. Which is like teens-30s. I mean, how many teenagers out there are going to want to run out and buy makeup that is modeled by someone who could be their Grandma? I know that me and my friends won't. I mean Christina Aguilara & Pam Anderson were hot sellers because young girls want to look like that, Catherine's look will not sell as much. Most older women (my mother included) feel uncomfortable shopping at MAC, seeing as it is a young, hip brand; they prefer Estee Lauder or Lancome or something more sophisticated/mature. (Yes I kno MAC is a prodeuct of EL, but the colors and the whole lines are so completely different that I consider them to be unique of eachother.) I would love to see Paris Hilton, Angelina Jolie, Gwen Stefani, or someone like that as a model. People like them will appeal to MACs customers more. I am very sorry if I offend anyone here. I'm just looking at it from a marketing perspective.  :roll:_

 

I think using an older model was a good marketing technique. They are now appealing to an older crowd. They already have the younger people so now they are taking on even more. I personally am loving this collection and I am no where near 60 years old. 

Just because the model is older doesn't mean we all have to be 60 in order to wear the make-up. I remember MAC using men for the TLC sticks and did that stop women from buying them? No.


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## MeganGMcD (Dec 1, 2005)

What is really funny is if you look at the demographics for make-up. The 30+ are the people who buy the most. 
Also, if a young girl cannot see something of value in a woman who was a MUSE for Christian Dior...than she really needs to rethink some things!


----------



## Jennifer Mcfly (Dec 1, 2005)

I was originally attracted to MAC b/c of Chrome Yellow and Orange eyeshadows. But that is just where my obsession began!! I have liked something (maybe not everything) from every collection b/c I'm versatile. There is a time and a place for everything. I very well can't wear Electric Eel to my day job (some women can), but when I go out, oh it's on...like Donkey Kong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Back to my point, let people have their opinions. If MAC loses a client b/c they don't like one collection, then they weren't loyal to the company for the right reasons. I love the *quality* of MAC as well as color selection. And I'm sure for every client they lose, they gain two more in it's place!!

Hello, I'm *25* and I love everything (and every color) about MAC!!!


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## Classic Beauty (Dec 1, 2005)

I like the second quad.  I love the lipglasses and lipsticks.

For the rest of the conversation...

About the picture, it surprised me.  I thought they would take a more natural route.  I feel like it doesn't capture her elegance.  However, I dont think it will lose customers, but gain customers due to the older, classy icon.
As a sixteen year old, I am tired of people stereotyping teenagers as foolish, dim-witted, and judgemental.  Please, stop the hate.  Belive it or not, most of us respect our elders.
And on a last note, Paris Hilton as an icon?  Sick me out.  Angelina and Gwen? Yes.  Paris? Heck no.


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## Turbokittykat (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Classic Beauty* 
_As a sixteen year old, I am tired of people stereotyping teenagers as foolish, dim-witted, and judgemental.  Please, stop the hate.  Belive it or not, most of us respect our elders._

 
I don't hate teenagers at all and I'm sorry you feel that's the case. I've nothing against you, or most young people. My issue on this thread was with one particular individual who has taken it upon herself to inform us that MAC "belongs" to the teenage market and to lecture the rest of us about marketing and the MAC target sales group; subjects she clearly knows very little about.

My comments on her age were to do with me trying to make allowances for her because she's young and she hasn't yet realised she doesn't know everything, not because I think that every teenager is the same. 

Also, I don't remember calling her foolish or dim-witted, and if pushed I think I would have been more likely to use the words inexperienced, immature and unwilling to consider any other view than her own. She's shown quite clearly that she does not realise she doesn't know it all, that she cannot back-up her own arguments with anything other than guesswork and her opinion, and that she's not willing to listen to and take on board anything anyone else has to say, and in doing that she lost my respect.


----------



## rouquinne (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Cruella* 
_Turbokittykat, will you marry me?  In fact, how about all us "older" chicks get together and have a big, ol' luv fest? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
better yet...

let's all get together in Toronto and i'll take you to the Bay Queen Street and show you where the very first MAC retail counter used to be and to Carleton Street to show you where the very first pro store used to be!


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## Turbokittykat (Dec 1, 2005)

I've not been to Canada. I would soooo love to. It's on my list of places to visit when I get the chance


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## rouquinne (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_...I honestly think MAC should stick to it's target group. Which is like teens-30s._

 
i would like to point out one piece of history that this girl doesn't know...

MAC was created for the fashion industry.  the original "target market", in fact, with the Pro Line, the current "target market", is the fashion industry.

when i started using it, it wasn't available at retail - i was able to get it because i was a professional opera singer and it was available to Toronto's stage community at the time.

Frank and Frank went retail because people were asking "where'd you get that?" and then call, asking to buy, even when they weren't models or actors or singers or MAs, etc.


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## MizMac (Dec 1, 2005)

that's such a great piece of M.A.C history!!  It makes me feel all warm inside to be part of such a great company with such an unqiue past!!


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## MizMac (Dec 1, 2005)

TurboKitty, you have to go to Canada!!  I'm allowed back in Feb!!  The last visit to the pro store in Vancouver almost killed the poor hubby, so he said I had to wait a whole year to go back!!  I say everyone meet up in BC!!  All us "old" gals can shop crazy and I know of this awesome Gelato store there!!


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## blueyedlady87 (Dec 1, 2005)

*Alow me to clarify.....*

Alright, I see that my opinion is not the popular opinion. I was mistaken, I didn't realize there were so many older (or mature as you might like me to say) women here on Spektra. I am VERY sorry if I have offended anyone. I'm just saying that to younger people this collection will not be a must-have. **Just like ya'll wouldn't dream of wearing colors promoted by Paris Hilton, I couldn't dream of wearing colors promoted by a 60 year old!!!** 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rouquinne* 
_really?
if that were true, then why wouldn't Lauder drop MAC's driving motto when they bought the company - or now?
why would they get 3 women in their 60s to act as ICONS???
your loss.
you have a crystal ball???
the Icon series products sell out.  have you seen what people are asking for Liza PM palettes?
MOST older women?
how many have you surveyed?
at the last 3 MAC seminars i attended, the over 35s out-numbered the under 30s.
i've been wearing MAC since the company started, are you suggesting that i should stop wearing product i love because i'm too old?????
EL's colours are chalky and Lancome has limited range of stuff and they still don't make decent foundation!
if it didn't work from a marketing perspective, do you think the company would do it???
"older" women are a consumer force to be reckoned with these days!_

 
Diana Ross and Liza Minelli are very well known. I don't have a problem with them at all. Their collections were great! But with Catherine, I -personally- couldn't relate. I'm not saying don't buy it, just that I'm not going to! It's just my personal opinion, thats all! I think that whoever can pull off the look should wear MAC. You misunderstood. I was just saying that my generation can't really appreciate or look up to her as an icon. And what I meant by 'most' older women is simply that I have not seen hardly anyone over 40-50 shopping at my local MAC counter. I see the older crowd going to Estee Lauder or wherever. Not that older women shouldn't, just that I personally haven't seen alot. Thats all!

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sigwing* 
_What's wrong with being in your 30's?
I'd totally missed this ridiculous thread till now.  I echo Rouquinne's comments.  It's great that some kids get to spend $500 a month, plus their parents income!, on makeup and get to post at websites like that makes them special and someone to be bowed down to by some of us who might even be over 40. (cough cough)  I can't believe some of the condescending remarks like "older" women have "spunk" because they like to buy whatever makeup brand.  I bought Mary Quant in my teens, Clinique and Lancome in my 20's & 30's, along with EL sometimes, and several others.  I make three times as much money now as I did then, and I buy an assortment of things, but prefer MAC eyeshadows.  So what.  I didn't know there were age categories or requirements, or judgmental kids looking down their noses at me and laughing at me behind my back for it.  Thanks for enlightening me.  I've got some great MA's that are genuine women who don't do that, I would bet on it, and I'd guess laugh more at the teenager coming in with her mom trying to pick out what eyeshadow to get, taking a bunch of time to get just the right one and make the big decision, and my MA can wait on me in the meantime and I pick up several e/s and various other items and she checks me out while the little girl finally decides on a pot of "Hush."

This Catherine collection looks wonderful, and I don't understand the comments about her age, etc., because as soon as everyone gets their hauls of it, they'll forget her and go on to the next collection or wondering what is coming out next that they can look forward to.

As far as "young" models or whatever, I'd agree with the Angelina or Gwen, but Paris Hilton?  You've got to be kidding.  I guess if you want to iconize someone who is only famous because they market themself, they are "lucky" enough to have been born into a billionaire family and they can afford to make their own perfume....then while I might consider that a weird sort of person to admire, what do I know....I'm old and apparently have different values.  I've posted here at this website because I've ALWAYS loved cosmetics and collected makeup, discovered MAC several years ago & have thoroughly enjoyed it & found a lot of "enthusiasts" here, but hadn't felt offended by any kind of age-related prejudice or snobbery until I read this thread.  I'm going to have to be more selective if I ever come back and click on anything to read again.  There are a lot of nice people here, I've thought so far, but maybe it is silly for someone my age trying to join in what I thought was a community of women from all over the world, all ages, races, etc.  I can assure you, though, I do not buy MAC or anything else to try to be "young."_

 
Um, wow. So uncalled for! I'm sorry that my parents give me money to spend as I choose. I haven't always had money, it's nice to spurlge now that we can afford it. And I never said I think I'm special or better than anyone. That is completely untrue. And by the way, I am not one of those 'little' girls who takes forever picking out one shadow. Usually I have my MA do a fun new look and I get all the colors in addition to other stuff I see and like. So please don't put me in that category. I'm just a girl who loves buying and doing makeup!! If you don't ever come back b/c of MY *personal* opinion, then thats your decision, but don't let my comment keep ou from something you love.

***Continued in new relpy!!***


----------



## blueyedlady87 (Dec 1, 2005)

*Continued from previous post:*

Continued from my previous post:

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_OK barbie_doll_713, this is the last time I’m going to address you because I know it’s pointless. You are just too young to fully understand the retail market you are trying to talk about and you’re too young to be able to participate properly in a sensible debate. You're already quite certain you know how it is. I’m going to try very hard not to be sarcastic and condescending, although that’s quite difficult because you’re just so wrong, and so convinced you’re right. Still, having been 16 myself once, I remember that I thought I knew everything at that age too.

Firstly, I’m not bitter, I’m just totally incredulous that someone with so little knowledge of the MAC ethos, their market and their marketing strategy would be talking with such certainty, and refusing to take note of what anyone else has said. I suggested you ask a MAC MA to back up what I said about a large proportion of MACs business coming from customers who want neutral or subtle looks. You didn’t bother, you just dismissed it as “wrong” on the basis that you have “worked at Macy’s”. You may well have worked at Macy’s but you have not worked for MAC. I know that for a fact because you are too young. The following is a comment posted very recently on the Live Journal mac_cosmetics group by a current MAC MA. She’s talking about the Catherine Devenue collection.

” the majority of MAC users don't wear bright shadows. Sure there's a bunch of us who do, and yes, that's what MAC is known for . . . *but as a MAC artist, I'd say that 75% of the people that come in are scared by the likes of Electric Eel, SUshi Flower etc.* Also, the collection is supposed to reflect the Icon. Catherine Deneuve isn't someone most of us (in this community) ever even heard of. She's of a different generation. And actually, I think it's a great idea to have something more geared towards older women. I myself was a bit disappointed in the Holiday shadow sets this year, because I don't feel that there's something for everyone. The cool palette is the only one anyone over the age of 50 has even looked at. Yes, older women can wear color, but it's not how they were raised and not something they feel comfortable in. NE flew off the shelves with that demographic. They can get away with more muted tones. I don't know. I like that MAC finally has an icon for more mature women. Almost every other collection is geared towards people like us.”

I’ve seen the same said by several other MAC MAs and the girls who work at my local MAC counter say exactly the same thing. If you actually ask someone who works for MAC you’ll find that bright colours do not makeup the bulk of MAC sales and that MAC already has a customer base of more mature people. I see them myself, browsing at the counter almost every time I go there. It may well be rare in your city, (although at 16 I doubt I would have noticed who else was shopping in a store because I was usually thinking more about what I wanted), however the majority of MAC MAs will tell you, it’s not rare in most other locations. There was a MAC MA on LJ a little while ago who was complaining that at her counter people only ever wanted brown eye shadow. She wanted to ask for a transfer to a different area so she could do makeovers with some of the brighter colours occasionally! If I had the spare time, and if I thought it would do any good at all, I would go and find some of her posts.

As for your assertion that younger customers will not buy much from this collection,  (and I don’t see why they wouldn’t – a pink lipglass is a pink lipglass, as someone has already said), even if you are correct, your claim that MAC will lose customers over it is not correct. They will be right back for the next collection, which, knowing MAC, will be out 2 weeks after the Icon collection. You’ve said yourself, if someone wants bright, edgy colours, they go to MAC. So where else are they going to go? It’s highly unlikely that a large proportion of the younger customers are going to find somewhere else to get their fix of brights in the short space of time before MAC brings out the next collection. MAC knows full well that they’re not going to lose you, you’ll all be back. And in the meantime, the Icon collection will sell to the more mature customers.

I know you’re not hating older women, you’re just not understanding them at all, and at 16 that’s not particularly surprising.

Still, I already know from what you’ve written so far that you will not accept a word of this and that you are 100% convinced that you know exactly how the world works. I’d hope you will at least think about what I’ve said though.

I’d love to be able to show this to you when you are 50 and see what you think then!_

 
Hello again. I'm sorry that you took my comments so personal. I mean you have your opinion and I have mine. I'm not saying I'm right, but my God I hope you don't think you are. In the same way that you could not look up to Paris Hilton as an icon, I can't look up to Catherine. And no I never said I worked at MAC!! Just at Macys! I'm well aware of the age requirements and plan on applying at MAC as soon as I can on the suggestion of the manager. Thank you very much! And for you to say I can't participate in a debate is just insulting. Shoot me for expressing my opinion!! The fact that I'm young has nothing to do with it. I'm sorry that I like the fact that MAC has the reputation of being young, modern, flashy, and hip. Afterall, they started in fashion shows and God knows thats not all beige and pastel. Nor do I think I know how the world works. But I know what I like and what I don't like. I know I don't like to see 50+ women in drag queen makeup walking around acting 15. And please don't tell me I don't understand older women! I may not be in their shoes yet but my mom and aunts agree with me on this. When you think of MAC you think of a young hip girl, not a 60year old women. And I like it like that! I'm sorry, maybe some day I will change my opinion, but for now it is what it is. It's kind of like how you don't like to see some homeless person wondering into Saks. At least for me, personally! Again, this is just my personal opinion. So what if I don't think older women should be wearing makeup like they're 20? If your older and you wanna wear it, go ahead! WHo cares what i think?


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *bluegrassbabe* 
_Paris Hilton as an Icon? A glorified porn star who speaks in 2 word sentences? She is disgusting. That would be the day I threw every MAC product I owned in the garbage can._

 
Ok, ok! Yeah, this may be true. But I'd love to see the fun colors they'd make to go along with her. If they have Christina Aguialra, Paris Hilton is not that far off. And no, she's not icon status I must agree.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_I don't hate teenagers at all and I'm sorry you feel that's the case. I've nothing against you, or most young people. My issue on this thread was with one particular individual who has taken it upon herself to inform us that MAC "belongs" to the teenage market and to lecture the rest of us about marketing and the MAC target sales group; subjects she clearly knows very little about.

My comments on her age were to do with me trying to make allowances for her because she's young and she hasn't yet realised she doesn't know everything, not because I think that every teenager is the same. 

Also, I don't remember calling her foolish or dim-witted, and if pushed I think I would have been more likely to use the words inexperienced, immature and unwilling to consider any other view than her own. She's shown quite clearly that she does not realise she doesn't know it all, that she cannot back-up her own arguments with anything other than guesswork and her opinion, and that she's not willing to listen to and take on board anything anyone else has to say, and in doing that she lost my respect._

 
I thought you weren't responding to me? Or do you not count it as responding if say 'she'? Just a thought!!

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MeganGMcD* 
_What is really funny is if you look at the demographics for make-up. The 30+ are the people who buy the most. 
Also, if a young girl cannot see something of value in a woman who was a MUSE for Christian Dior...than she really needs to rethink some things!_

 
OK! I never said I didn't see anything of value in her! Just that I didn't relate and am not all that tempted to buy anything from this set. Thats all. I'm not judging her as a person. And was she a muse recently? Or back in her golden years?

P.S. WhenI'm 50 I'm sure I'll be wearing MAC but then of course (at least from my current perspective!) I will be getting a little help to stay young! Lol!

P.P.S. I am really sorry!!! Please don't feel hurt or offended. Other people were saying how they weren't that all impressed with the collection and i was just stating my reasons why. I'm sorry. I can't say I won't give my opinion, but next time I'll be less blunt.


----------



## leppy (Dec 1, 2005)

I think this is a good time to remind everyone that this thread, like any other on Specktra must remain civil or people will find their words edited and/or deleted. 

I'm not commenting on anyones post specifically, its just that you can could cut the tension with a very dull knife. 

Be nice please. Remember that tone and meaning does not translate well into plain text, try to give the other person the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## sigwing (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

  **Just like ya'll wouldn't dream of wearing colors promoted by Paris Hilton, I couldn't dream of wearing colors promoted by a 60 year old!!!**  
 
um....doesn't one of the quads have 3 colors that are perm, and the other one has one that is?  Are ya going to throw them away if you have them already....because some "old lady" is now part of the promotion that includes some shades that are staples?

I can't even begin to respond to the post above this reply box....it's absolutely ridiculous.  But that's the beauty of the web....a kid who lives at home arguing and getting to lord over and insult anonymous women who are "mature" and have careers.  It's crazy....but I've even gotten in arguments with our town's garbage collector, too.  Oh, and congrats to you again on your gig with the 'rents......beats what I do for a living.  Mine probably wouldn't want me to move in & let them support me & pay for my makeup now, tho.  Damn.

I will mention I haven't seen, or even been acquainted with, any women over 40 who try to "look like they're 20," whatever that would be.


----------



## Turbokittykat (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_I'm not saying I'm right, but my God I hope you don't think you are._

 
At least I can back my comments and opinions up with some actual substance, such as a direct, relevant quote from an actual MAC employee, which you have conveniently chosen to ignore because it does not fit in with what you believe to be true. Your 'this is what I believe and if you disagree I'll just say you're wrong without any justification or further discussion' attitude shows your immaturity very clearly.


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_And for you to say I can't participate in a debate is just insulting._

 
I didn't say you couldn't, I said you're incapable of doing so in an adult way, (i.e. with reasoning, as mentioned above). I know I said I wasn't going to respond to you again, but I'm bashing my head against a brick wall in the hope you'll actually grasp what I mean by a reasoned debate eventually. Let me try an example...

I stated that MAC sell more subtle colours than they do bright colours. Your very mature response was to state outright that I am "wrong", (go back and read your response if you don't believe me). So I posted some justification, (the direct quote from a MAC MA). You've conveniently chosen to ignore this. The fact is, I'm not "wrong". My statement comes from actually talking to a number of people who work for MAC, and attending a few seminars, (as with the other poster who commented, at every seminar or event I've attended the number of 30+ women has VASTLY outweighed the number of under 30s there).  I've backed up my statements, whereas you have stated, "this is how it is because I say so". You're stating your opinions as if they are facts with absolutely no supporting information. You commented earlier more than once stating something like "most older women" are intimidated by MAC. You were asked how many you had surveyed, and again you chose to ignore it. *You can't expect things you state as fact to be taken seriously if you can't back them up at all!* Something your mum may have said does not give you grounds to spout on about how "most older women" feel. And you're still doing it, for example "When you think of MAC you think of a young hip girl, not a 60year old women". YOU might think of a young, hip girl (probably because that's all you can relate to) but that doesn't mean that's what everyone thinks of. I certainly don't. Surely the number of people disagreeing with you here is telling you something. And whatever you think, it's not because we're insulted that you can't relate to a 60 year old, or whatever, it's because we think your statements of how things are are flawed.

And no, referring to you is not the same as directing a comment at you. Just in case you are unclear, this is a comment to you, although I really don't know why I am bothering. I guess I'd just like to see you grasp the concept that your opinions are not fact just because you say so!


----------



## absolut_blonde (Dec 1, 2005)

I can't imagine writing off a collection because you don't know who the model is! Most of the MAC models used are unknowns, so if you aren't familiar with Catherine, then why should that be any different? Colours are colours.

[And the Paris comparison isn't fair either, really. Personally I *would* boycott a Paris Hilton collection because I think she's a horrifically crappy person and she hasn't *done* anything to merit being an icon-- which you can't say about Catherine. Not the same. Plus, there's no comparing Paris to someone like Christina A. who has multiplatinum records.]


----------



## blueyedlady87 (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sigwing* 
_um....doesn't one of the quads have 3 colors that are perm, and the other one has one that is?  Are ya going to throw them away if you have them already....because some "old lady" is now part of the promotion that includes some shades that are staples?

I can't even begin to respond to the post above this reply box....it's absolutely ridiculous.  But that's the beauty of the web....a kid who lives at home arguing and getting to lord over and insult anonymous women who are "mature" and have careers.  It's crazy....but I've even gotten in arguments with our town's garbage collector, too.  Oh, and congrats to you again on your gig with the 'rents......beats what I do for a living.  Mine probably wouldn't want me to move in & let them support me & pay for my makeup now, tho.  Damn.

I will mention I haven't seen, or even been acquainted with, any women over 40 who try to "look like they're 20," whatever that would be._

 
Seeing as I'm a minor, yes I do still live at home! And i'm sorry you don't agree with the fact that my parents give me money. If I was over 18 I would not be taking money from them. But seeing as I'm in high school full time, have a 3.8 GPA, and am active in my church, I don't see it as a bad thing that my parents help to support my MAC addiction! By the way I'm not insulting anyone. i was just stating my personal opinion. I didn't attack anyone! I'm not here to make enemies. And the women I'm talking are quite common, at least in Southern California. They are 50 or 60 and have so much Botox they can't smile, they dress in teen styles that are usually 3 sizes too small, they tease their hair in a perfect 80's look, go to concerts get drunk and make idiots of themselves trying to relieve their younger days, and they swear 50 tons of MAC makeup on their face. All that alone is not what bugs me,it's the fact that they think they look incredibly hot when really people are laughing behind their backs. Thats not an attack toward MAC and everyone should have a right to buy it, I'm just saying that some women try wayy too tried. Theres something to the whole age-appropriate thing. No offense toward anyone in particular. I'm sure someone knows what kind of woman I'm talking about!


----------



## Viva_la_MAC_Girl (Dec 1, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_Alright, I see that my opinion is not the popular opinion. I was mistaken, I didn't realize there were so many older (or mature as you might like me to say) women here on Spektra. I am VERY sorry if I have offended anyone. I'm just saying that to younger people this collection will not be a must-have. **Just like ya'll wouldn't dream of wearing colors promoted by Paris Hilton, I couldn't dream of wearing colors promoted by a 60 year old!!!** !!***_

 
Ok, let me ask you this in all fairness - I see that your a BIG fan of Marylin Monroe -  ( and she was "older")  tell me if MAC launched her as an ICON - would you buy it?


----------



## blueyedlady87 (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_At least I can back my comments and opinions up with some actual substance, such as a direct, relevant quote from an actual MAC employee, which you have conveniently chosen to ignore because it does not fit in with what you believe to be true. Your 'this is what I believe and if you disagree I'll just say you're wrong without any justification or further discussion' attitude shows your immaturity very clearly.




I didn't say you couldn't, I said you're incapable of doing so in an adult way, (i.e. with reasoning, as mentioned above). I know I said I wasn't going to respond to you again, but I'm bashing my head against a brick wall in the hope you'll actually grasp what I mean by a reasoned debate eventually. Let me try an example...

I stated that MAC sell more subtle colours than they do bright colours. Your very mature response was to state outright that I am "wrong", (go back and read your response if you don't believe me). So I posted some justification, (the direct quote from a MAC MA). You've conveniently chosen to ignore this. The fact is, I'm not "wrong". My statement comes from actually talking to a number of people who work for MAC, and attending a few seminars, (as with the other poster who commented, at every seminar or event I've attended the number of 30+ women has VASTLY outweighed the number of under 30s there).  I've backed up my statements, whereas you have stated, "this is how it is because I say so". You're stating your opinions as if they are facts with absolutely no supporting information. You commented earlier more than once stating something like "most older women" are intimidated by MAC. You were asked how many you had surveyed, and again you chose to ignore it. *You can't expect things you state as fact to be taken seriously if you can't back them up at all!* Something your mum may have said does not give you grounds to spout on about how "most older women" feel. And you're still doing it, for example "When you think of MAC you think of a young hip girl, not a 60year old women". YOU might think of a young, hip girl (probably because that's all you can relate to) but that doesn't mean that's what everyone thinks of. I certainly don't. Surely the number of people disagreeing with you here is telling you something. And whatever you think, it's not because we're insulted that you can't relate to a 60 year old, or whatever, it's because we think your statements of how things are are flawed.

And no, referring to you is not the same as directing a comment at you. Just in case you are unclear, this is a comment to you, although I really don't know why I am bothering. I guess I'd just like to see you grasp the concept that your opinions are not fact just because you say so!_

 
Ok, really I think your digressing from the fact. This is a place where people write their opinions. I was just stating mine. Have I ever heard a specific MA say that MAC is gearded toward young people? No, but I've seen the eye rolls and looks when *certain* older women come by. I based my statement that a lot of older women are intimidated by MAC on the fact that I have rarely seen older women at the counter. However, I do notice them looking over as if they would like to check it out (which this collection may help them do!) And if thats completely true, why have I never seen a women under the age of 40 working at MAC? Most are under 30. I think it's the image they want to promote, but maybe now they're changing. The collections not a bad thing, it's just not something that draws me. But if there was an amzing color of course I would buy it! I'm just saying I *personally* wouldn't look up to someone like that as a makeup icon. But guys, this is the beauty of America. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I've apoligized but thats about the best I can do. I'm not going to change my mind just because some people are upset by it! But if you'd like me to realize your point of view, I do! I just don't agree with it! 

Let's just agree to disagree! ;-)


----------



## blueyedlady87 (Dec 2, 2005)

*Good point!*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Viva_la_MAC_Girl* 
_Ok, let me ask you this in all fairness - I see that your a BIG fan of Marylin Monroe -  ( and she was "older")  tell me if MAC launched her as an ICON - would you buy it?_

 
If MAC had been during her time she surely would have been a great icon and I would definaetly have bought it. But consider that she lived and didn't die so young... would she still be so huge in her old age? I think what draws people to her is that she died so young before her time. Had she not, I think she would gradually have faded from Hollywood. But saying she lived to be 60 or so.... I don't think i'd be as drawn to her as am to the troubled, beautiful soul who no one could save. 

Bottom line: Had she lived and continued to be so huge, yes I would probably buy the line. (It'd be fun to see the blood red lipsticks, smoky eyes, and pale shimmers they would do for her!) But then again, maybe another reason I'm not drawm to Catherine is because she was before my time.


----------



## pumpkincat210 (Dec 2, 2005)

My favorite MA is the oldest i've seen working at MAC.  She's in her 50's but she knows her stuff!!  She truly enjoys her job (who wouldn't) and shows me multiple ways of using things.  I like her because she is so attentive and experienced.  She also told me I could wear any color almost, it is all in the application and experimentation.  
With that said I really want Bourbon lipstick, both quads because I have none of those eye shadows,  blot powder which will make my life easier, the kabuki brush is nifty, and the nailpolishes.  I am going to be a poor woman after these 2 collections.  
what are studio lights? those look interesting too.


----------



## MizMac (Dec 2, 2005)

The counter I work at almost 1/2 of us are 30 and one of are artists are 50.  At our #1 selling counter, 2 of the gals are 50+, and their #1 artist is 45.  At 3 of our counters, there is someone with a disability. (me included)  To tell the truth most the customers come to us "older" artists because we have been in the industry for a while and know quite alot about makeup.  The most certified artist are all 30+.  Just a food for thought.


----------



## Viva_la_MAC_Girl (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_If MAC had been during her time she surely would have been a great icon and I would definaetly have bought it. But consider that she lived and didn't die so young... would she still be so huge in her old age? I think what draws people to her is that she died so young before her time. Had she not, I think she would gradually have faded from Hollywood. But saying she lived to be 60 or so.... I don't think i'd be as drawn to her as am to the troubled, beautiful soul who no one could save. 

Bottom line: Had she lived and continued to be so huge, yes I would probably buy the line. (It'd be fun to see the blood red lipsticks, smoky eyes, and pale shimmers they would do for her!) But then again, maybe another reason I'm not drawm to Catherine is because she was before my time._

 

Ok - I can answer that now - how old would she be right now if she was alive...? - she still is an ICON and she is gone.

People were not drawn to her cause she died young ...she was an great actress! The hot blonde bombshell had ----- Talent!!!!! She died at age 36  -


----------



## Turbokittykat (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_Ok, really I think your digressing from the fact. This is a place where people write their opinions. I was just stating mine. Have I ever heard a specific MA say that MAC is gearded toward young people? No, but I've seen the eye rolls and looks when *certain* older women come by. I based my statement that a lot of older women are intimidated by MAC on the fact that I have rarely seen older women at the counter. However, I do notice them looking over as if they would like to check it out (which this collection may help them do!) And if thats completely true, why have I never seen a women under the age of 40 working at MAC? Most are under 30. I think it's the image they want to promote, but maybe now they're changing. The collections not a bad thing, it's just not something that draws me. But if there was an amzing color of course I would buy it! I'm just saying I *personally* wouldn't look up to someone like that as a makeup icon. But guys, this is the beauty of America. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I've apoligized but thats about the best I can do. I'm not going to change my mind just because some people are upset by it! But if you'd like me to realize your point of view, I do! I just don't agree with it! 

Let's just agree to disagree! ;-)_

 
You still aren't getting it. I don't care that you don't agree with me. I do care that you are stating your opinions as if they are fact when they definitely aren't. You are in no position to comment on how "most older women" think, yet you do. You continue to insist that MAC is aimed at younger people even though their own slogan is ALL RACES, ALL SEXES, ALL AGES! You even acknowldeged that yourself before you completely disregarded it. And when I stated that MAC sell more neutral colours than bright colours you bluntly said I am "wrong". I've now backed up what I said, and I know I'm not wrong because I've been told by several people who work for MAC. And they should know what they sell most of. But even in the face of all this, you are still insisting that MAC is more about bright colours for young people than anything else.

I don't need an apology because you've not upset me. I just want you to think about what you're saying, especially when you start speaking on behalf of a group of people you don't understand, ("most older women").

Oh, and on the subject of over 40's at MAC, well they do exist, but they are less common. Part of the reason for this is that most start before they are 40 and by the time they reach their 40s they've been promoted far away from the counters. Another possible reason is that it's generally cheaper to employ younger people. However, I personally know of at least 2 MAC MAs that are over 40.


----------



## blueyedlady87 (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Viva_la_MAC_Girl* 
_Ok - I can answer that now - how old would she be right now if she was alive...? - she still is an ICON and she is gone.

People were not drawn to her cause she died young ...she was an great actress! The hot blonde bombshell had ----- Talent!!!!! She died at age 36  -_

 
Trust me, I know! I'm like in love with her! I have all her movies, over 30 books, postrers, and even foundation powder with her face pressed into it. I just don't think she'd be quite as huge had she not passed away before her time. It's such a shame that more young girls don't appreciate her. She paved the way for alot of people. Personally, I think her allure comes from her ingenious, "innocent whore" persona. Have you ever read the essay collection "All the Available Light"? It's really good. Not all the authors are as nice as others but it's really good. And I think it does a good job putting a finger on what made her so alluring. Someone should start a thread about her!!!

By the way, I saw some of your pics from your user page and i think you do makeup great! you look awesome!


----------



## bluegrassbabe (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_And if thats completely true, why have I never seen a women under the age of 40 working at MAC? Most are under 30._

 
There are two 40-50ish women (and one man) at the Macy's in my city. I've also noticed some older people in some of the freestanding stores as well. They are definately out there. I actually prefer the 30+ MAs to the youngsters. They seem to have a much better knowledge of the products, and (IMO) their application and techniques seem to be a little more advanced.  I'm noticing with MAC lately that the newer staff seems to be more sales oriented and less adept with the products. I'm not saying that's always true, and definately not saying that there aren't young talented MAs out there. I'm just pointing out that experience is a virtue. 
Of course, maybe I think that way because I'm approaching the age when people will start to laugh at me and my blue eyeshadow behind my back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yup, at the ripe old age of 28, it's all downhill from here. 

 Quote:

  Thanks Barbie, I don't feel old unless someone younger asks what it was like before MTV/cable, lol.  
 
I remember getting MTV and Cable for the first time. I think I was around 7 or 8. That was back when they played music, too. It was awesome!
I think the first video was "Video killed the Radio star". Am I right?


----------



## pumpkincat210 (Dec 2, 2005)

the older women and men are surely the ones who pick out the colors and name them and have the final say.  OOh! i want a promotion
Don't sell yourself short just because you don't like an older model!


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## MizMac (Dec 2, 2005)

yep it was video killed the radio star, god I actually had a seemstress make that silver dress for me!!  I thought I was like the cutest kid ever!!


----------



## blueyedlady87 (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_You still aren't getting it. I don't care that you don't agree with me. I do care that you are stating your opinions as if they are fact when they definitely aren't. You are in no position to comment on how "most older women" think, yet you do. You continue to insist that MAC is aimed at younger people even though their own slogan is ALL RACES, ALL SEXES, ALL AGES! You even acknowldeged that yourself before you completely disregarded it. And when I stated that MAC sell more neutral colours than bright colours you bluntly said I am "wrong". I've now backed up what I said, and I know I'm not wrong because I've been told by several people who work for MAC. And they should know what they sell most of. But even in the face of all this, you are still insisting that MAC is more about bright colours for young people than anything else.

I don't need an apology because you've not upset me. I just want you to think about what you're saying, especially when you start speaking on behalf of a group of people you don't understand, ("most older women").

Oh, and on the subject of over 40's at MAC, well they do exist, but they are less common. Part of the reason for this is that most start before they are 40 and by the time they reach their 40s they've been promoted far away from the counters. Another possible reason is that it's generally cheaper to employ younger people. However, I personally know of at least 2 MAC MAs that are over 40._

 
Ok. I get your point! I am thinking about what I'm saying! You are right that they sell more subtle colors, but they are known for bright, fun colors. Again, please understand that this is just my personal opinion and i'm only going off of what I've seen at our (relatively small) local counter, and my mom/family. I mean, my fav MA is named Roxy and she's 30ish with 3 kids, she wears fun makeup but it's not out there at all. I really look up to her. Altough thats a good point that maybe older MAs work higher up. Roxy got promoted and now I have to request her if I want my makeup done by her. It doesn't matter. No matter what we're all here because we loove MAC and want to trade tips, and ideas. Just beacause I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't see you point. And I'd like tp point out that I said (then and now) that this is just my opinion. I don't meanit to be taken as fact! Sorry again.


----------



## Turbokittykat (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_Sorry again._

 
Like I said there's no need to apologise. I've nothing against you personally.


----------



## Turbokittykat (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *roxybc* 
_I just think that Catherine kind of "sold her self out" by letting MAC make her look like that.  She's a true beauty, and that's not how she usually looks.  People admire her for her natural beauty and grace, and the promo pics for her icon collection do not capture that.  I don't think any of the comments on here were meant to be hurtful or to suggest that "older" people should not wear MAC makeup.  I think some people took the comments a little too personal.  I just don't think that picture will appeal to MAC's intended target market of this icon collection.

They made her look too different and unrecognizable to her fans, because she doesn't look that way normally.  Now take the picture I posted of Debbie Harry - she looks like that all the time, so a picture similar to the MAC one of Catherine would capture the essence of the collection perfectly, partially becuase it would capture who she (Debbie Harry) really is.

Aggree/Dissagree??_

 
NB - I'm reposting this because it was moved to the age thread even though it is a direct response to roxybc's post above.

I think it's possible that she was all for the idea of trying a different look. I don't know for sure, of course, but I am certain if I was approached by MAC for this kind of project, I'd jump at the chance to reinvent myself temporarily. I know my mum would. As I've said, she's in her early 50s and she loves to experiment with her look. She often changes her hair colour and style and she's far, far more fashion conscious than I am. I think most people would like the chance to have MAC reinvent them, and I don't think being 50-something or 60-something would necessarily change that. I imagine she had a lot of fun doing this. 

I think she looks great. I agree she's a natural beauty, but I think that still shows, even though she's being portrayed in a different way. I certainly don't think the photo will put anyone off. If anything the marketing message is 'with MAC you can look like this when you are 60+'. It may not actually be a true message, but that's marketing for you.


----------



## Alexa (Dec 2, 2005)

o____________________o 

honestly, it's times like these when i'm ashamed to admit how old i am (16).

i, personally, am very excited for this collection. being older does not mean you instantly have to throw away every single bright piece of makeup you have and replace it with something boring. the colors she has chosen are gorgeous and will definitely appeal and suit more women (and men) than say chrome yellow, electric eel and orange would.

anyways...i cannot wait until i get older. i find aging to be a beautiful thing


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## MeganGMcD (Dec 2, 2005)

Funny crazy addendum:
My film geek friends FLIPPED when they heard Belle du Jour herself was going to be Icon. That is why I love MAC. They are the one make-up company that treats make-up as an ART and has the following who will understand the utter...*gasp* of an ICON like Deneuve. They are a company that continues to borrow, define , and redefine culture and merge art, cinema, theater, books ( can you imagine an Anne Rice Collection) with the art of adornment!!!


----------



## Viva_la_MAC_Girl (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MizMac* 
_yep it was video killed the radio star, god I actually had a seemstress make that silver dress for me!!  I thought I was like the cutest kid ever!!_

 

HA!!  I LOVE IT --- DO you still have it??

Gotta love that era - at least I do


----------



## SonRisa (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_I know I'm gonna get alot of crap for saying this... but I'm going to anyway. (And yeah, I know the whole MAC motto..all ages, races, sexes, etc.) But I honestly think MAC should stick to it's target group. Which is like teens-30s. I mean, how many teenagers out there are going to want to run out and buy makeup that is modeled by someone who could be their Grandma? I know that me and my friends won't. I mean Christina Aguilara & Pam Anderson were hot sellers because young girls want to look like that, Catherine's look will not sell as much. Most older women (my mother included) feel uncomfortable shopping at MAC, seeing as it is a young, hip brand; they prefer Estee Lauder or Lancome or something more sophisticated/mature. (Yes I kno MAC is a prodeuct of EL, but the colors and the whole lines are so completely different that I consider them to be unique of eachother.) I would love to see Paris Hilton, Angelina Jolie, Gwen Stefani, or someone like that as a model. *People like them will appeal to MACs customers more. *I am very sorry if I offend anyone here. *I'm just looking at it from a marketing perspective. * :roll:_

 

Okay. First of all, although MAC may be seen as a "young, hip" brand, they've been around since 1985 - 20 years now. SO even those who were 16 when MAC first came out, are now in their late 30's. And trust me, we have a TON of customers who have been using MAC since the beginning. I don't think you're really aware of who MAC's customers are. It may seem as though most are young, but actually they do have a very wide range. I help just as many, if not more 45 year olds than 18 year olds. In fact, aside from those in this group (MAC Addicts), most 18 year olds that come into my store (which is an extremely high volume store - $3 million a year), don't want to spend the money on MAC. They may buy their staple lipglass, but it's the 45 year old women that drop the cash. MAC Addicts do spend a lot of money on MAC each year. But not as much as regular customers who come in to buy their Shroom eyeshadow every 3 months because they use it everyday. And even if young people did make up most of MAC's customer base, wouldn't it be a GOOD marketing tool to attempt to pull in other demographics showing them that it's NOT just young people who wear MAC??!


----------



## joytheobscure (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_. And while you may believe that the majority of MACs customers are young people wanting wild colours because that's the impression you get from Internet groups, you're wrong. It varies a bit by location, of course, but the bulk of MACs business is from people wanting more subtle looks, and regardless of what you think, plenty of older customers shop at MAC. Ask any MAC MA if you don't believe me. In fact Son_Risa posts here and she works for MAC, so feel free to ask her.

Think about it, why would MAC not want to target the older demographic? After all, teenagers in general have nowhere near as much to spend as more mature customers. MAC would be pretty silly to ignore them, don't you think? And they are just the people this collection is aimed at. This collection will fly off the shelves. The older customers will love it and I don't think MAC will be in the least bit bothered that you and your friends aren't buying it._

 
I'd have loved to buy tons of mac at 21-24 but I could ONLY afford Revlon and Maybelline.... So at 28 with a professional job and just getting addicted when I'm in my early 40s my kids will all be over 21 woo hoo!!! Dept store can be edgy but remember people in their 40s were children of the 80s and remember the 80s is "the decade" all of us 70s babies look up to <grin>  I like macs marketing-


----------



## SonRisa (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_Continued from my previous post:

 I know I don't like to see 50+ women in drag queen makeup walking around acting 15. 

. . .When you think of MAC you think of a young hip girl, not a 60year old women

. . . It's kind of like how you don't like to see some homeless person wondering into Saks._

 
- I don't particularly like seeing 50+ women in drag queen makeup either, but what does that have to do with MAC? Although we do sell Electric Eel and Pink Poodle, most "older" women don't buy that! And that's what we're (here in the board) trying to say. YES, MAC is known for color, but that's not all we offer. We offer quality across the board for a low price. And our customers know this. That's why they've been loyal for so many years.

-I don't think of a young hip girl. You may, but you're simply one person in a customer base of billions. Sure there's probably other 16 year olds who agree with you, but you don't represent every 16 year old. As a 25 year old, I think of unique colors and quality at an affordable price. Notice I said unique, not bright. Because Vex is damn unique color if I do say so myself and I've used that on 80 year olds and they looked stunning!

-I cannot believe you used an example of a homeless man wandering into Saks. All I can really say to that is WHAT THE F*CK? Little lady you better change your views if you ever expect to work for MAC. And I really do mean that in a kind way. You have a lot to learn. I'm trying not to be condescending, but you must realize that you don't know everything, nor should you be expected to, but come on now!


----------



## Shawna (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Viva_la_MAC_Girl* 
_Or if you know the very first song that aired on MTV...LOL
_

 
Ohh ohh, I must be old because I know the answer. You'll have to pm the old fart in me to find out though  (ah rats, just noticed someone else answered it, but I'm still getting old)

As for older women wearing MAC, my mom is 55 and swears her loyalty to MAC because it doesn't crease on her. If you reach 55 and can't buy something nice for yourself, then what point is there to trying to look good?? If us old fogeys want to wear MAC (and believe me, my hubby knows I am to be buried with my traincase by my side) then all the power to us. And, just for the record, I hold a regular job, probably earn 3 times what you youngsters earn and believe me, MAC wants the clients that will spend more that just $15 on a shopping haul.


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## n_j_t (Dec 2, 2005)

Oh lord, y'all! I respectfully suggest we let this go. Because the horse? He is dead. 


As an aside...I sobbed my little teenage heart out when Audrey Hepburn died--she was my icon. Still is. 

And for those who aren't familiar with Ms. Deneuve's career (no matter your age), do acquaint yourselves with it. The woman is amazing.


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## ms.marymac (Dec 2, 2005)

Now I am going to have "Video Killed The Radio Star" stuck in my head!  You guys are gonna make me bust out a banana clip! 

I again will state I think they made a fabulous choice...speaking of Debbie Harry, I think she would also be a great icon.  I might be biased though, I adore her.


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## Viva_la_MAC_Girl (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shawna* 
_Ohh ohh, I must be old because I know the answer. You'll have to pm the old fart in me to find out though  (ah rats, just noticed someone else answered it, but I'm still getting old)

As for older women wearing MAC, my mom is 55 and swears her loyalty to MAC because it doesn't crease on her. If you reach 55 and can't buy something nice for yourself, then what point is there to trying to look good?? If us old fogeys want to wear MAC (and believe me, my hubby knows I am to be buried with my traincase by my side) then all the power to us. And, just for the record, I hold a regular job, probably earn 3 times what you youngsters earn and believe me, MAC wants the clients that will spend more that just $15 on a shopping haul._

 

























You want to know what's really funny - I remember where I was when it happned - I was all upset cause thats when MTV took over our local channel  MY CARTOONS  ( i'm 35 now )  but still I day I will never forget - I finally got over that .. and then ( back then ) I LOVED MTV - ( when they ACTUALLY PLAYED VIDEOS!!! LOL )  Today - its just a bunch of shows.. SIGH.


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## Hawkeye (Dec 2, 2005)

Wow. Lots of heated emotions on here. 

Barbie-I'm going to tell you something that I have told to my best friends face and her neices face. So consider this something like a big sister (I'm only 23 I'm not old), to a little sister. Keep in mind, this isn't just advice for this topic exclusively, but also for the future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I've read through this post and everytime I've read through it you've sounded like a bratty know it all. I mean some of the things your saying, have baffled me. Like this thing about a homeless person? SonRisa hit the nail on the head when she said What the F*ck? And how you're looking at it from a Marketing point of view-but then you say you're a minor, with a 3.8 GPA, go to high school full time (I didn't know you could go only part time? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and are active in your church. 

Sweetie, you can have your opinions but let me tell you real quick that just because you're high school teacher said something about marketing, doesnt make you an expert. I don't care if your parents have Doctorates in Marketing it doesnt make you an expert. How do you become an expert? Go to college. But when you're in college you will have to grasp-in order to even hope to get a degree in Marketing, a fundamental degree of Micro Economics, Macro Economics, Accounting (about a year or so), Calculous, and Finances. But you're still not an expert in it. You just have a lot of knowledge. In order to become an "expert" you have to go to Graduate School and get your Doctorate of Marketing OR have worked at least 20 years in the business. 

High standards? Yes. 

You are always welcome to an opinion as well. But as you have learned rather quickly on here your opinion must have something credible to back it up with. A website (.org, .edu, or whatever website you are referring to in this case maccosmetics.com), a journal (not like a dear diary one but one that is like a Marketing Journal, or a science journal), a newspaper etc. Not something your high school teacher told you. 

You know it's great your GPA is so high. I applaud you and really encourage you to keep it up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Same with church. 

But babe-I'm only 23, I go to college, I'm taking 18 hours this semester, working a 40 hour work week, and have a husband and a kid to go home too every night. I grew up kinda fast. I've learned that I don't know everything and most importantly, I don't have to be right. I've learned that 99% of the time if I just shut up and listened to people-who have already been through what i'm going through life is a hell of a lot easier.  I've also learned not to discriminate against people. 

I can tell you straight out, I could care less about whose right and whose wrong on this topic. But I will tell you-I am going to have to agree with SonRisa. I don't consider her an "expert"  (Sorry SonRisa but you know what I mean I hope!) but I know she knows more about the MAC Company than I do since she works there, and I have found her to be a very valuable "friend" if you will online. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Barbie-you are going to have to grow up a WHOLE lot if you want to work at MAC and your attitude will have to change. I think you are very smart and have a lot going for you, but with the attitude I've read on here (and I pray to god its only an online thing) it will hold you back bigtime in the real world away from your parents. 

Again, I know this is mean but I think it will be beneficial for you in the long run for someone to tell you this now.


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## Hawkeye (Dec 2, 2005)

N_J_T----> what are we going to do with the dead horse? (your post 2 posts up)


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## mspixieears (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm not too fond of the first picture, but the one with her in (I hope) vinyl red jacket is hot! But she does look stunning as herself, they could have featured her as a classic French beauty, which she is.

Perhaps it's a quibble with semantics, but I sort of thought the whole point of 'Icon' is that you've stood the test of time?

I didn't even think of the age thing - regardless of her age, I think they made a fab choice.

(from a 26 year old who looks like a 16 year old).


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## sigwing (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

  And the women I'm talking are quite common, at least in Southern California. They are 50 or 60 and have so much Botox they can't smile, they dress in teen styles that are usually 3 sizes too small, they tease their hair in a perfect 80's look, go to concerts get drunk and make idiots of themselves trying to relieve their younger days, and they swear 50 tons of MAC makeup on their face. All that alone is not what bugs me,it's the fact that they think they look incredibly hot when really people are laughing behind their backs. Thats not an attack toward MAC and everyone should have a right to buy it, I'm just saying that some women try wayy too tried. Theres something to the whole age-appropriate thing. No offense toward anyone in particular. I'm sure someone knows what kind of woman I'm talking about!  
 
They sound like they're having fun, they love their makeup and clothes just like everyone here, and they don't give a rat's ass.

I feel sorry for the people who are more interested in "laughing behind their backs" and focusing on them and judging them and sneering at them.  Do you categorize ALL "types" of people?  If I go to a concert, there might be disabled people, different races of people (obviously, as everywhere in the world), people who might be homeless in the parking lot.....we're all people.  I don't judge or criticize anyone for how they look or what they're doing.  But THAT right there is something I actually DID do when I was younger....and a trait that I despise.  I used to be more judgmental, snobbish, less understanding and sympathetic.  Now I suppose with life experience that COMES WITH AGE, and while I've always been caring towards people in need, I NEVER judge and make fun of people based on how they look or how they're acting if they're having a good time.  I don't sneer & laugh behind people's backs.  I've got my own stuff to attend to.  You might get a laugh off of me if you were around me, and I couldn't care less.

There are numerous younger women here that are very classy, intelligent, fun and beautiful people.  I hadn't known anyone's age or age range (unless it'd been specifically mentioned, & then I promptly forgot) because besides this branch of the topic about the pictures, it's never been an issue with ANYONE that I've noticed here, which has been pleasant.

Whatever age I've been at any point in my life, I'd have seen the pic of Catherine in the red jacket and not had ANY thought about it looking inappropriate or whatever.  When I finally saw it, I couldn't believe that's what all the stuff was about.  She was a model AND actress, and she is able to model just about anything, now or in the past.

Oh, and one quad I might get altho it only has one new shadow, but the other one definitely is mine!  And I love the compacts.   Now give me back my bed socks and flannel nightie...*creak*


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## lianna (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *absolut_blonde* 
_I can't imagine writing off a collection because you don't know who the model is! Most of the MAC models used are unknowns, so if you aren't familiar with Catherine, then why should that be any different? Colours are colours._

 
You know what? I totally agree with you. I wasn't really familiar with the past 2 icons either but that didn't stop me from going out to get lots of stuff from either collection! And I'm planning to get lots from the next Icon collection too. And I'm 17. So I think that barbie_doll_713 was just generalizing without actually taking into consideration that not all teens feel the same way that she and her friends do. There are so many teens and young women here saying that they love this collection so yes, I think she was just shooting her mouth off.

And the whole marketing thing...well, unless you actually are a member of MAC's marketing dept, I don't think there's much you can actually say can you because you don't have all the sales figures and info that they do. 

So barbie_doll_713, you're entitled to your own opinion but I think you should've just been more considerate of other members' feelings because of what you said about aging and about how MAC is supposedly a 'young' brand but remember, one day you're gonna be that age too so are _you_ gonna stop buying MAC?


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## n_j_t (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *youbeabitch* 
_N_J_T----> what are we going to do with the dead horse? (your post 2 posts up) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


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## user3 (Dec 2, 2005)

I really don't have much to say on the subject except that I agree with n_j_t. Let this die. or at least all the going back and forth.


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## lovejam (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_j_t* 
_As an aside...I sobbed my little teenage heart out when Audrey Hepburn died--she was my icon. Still is._

 
Mine, too! I was only 12 when she died, but it was so sad for me. I adore her. She was an amazing and beautiful person, and a fantastic actress to boot.

If only there were a way to make her a MAC idol! Maybe they could recreate colors she wore for a certain photo shoot or something. That would be cool. I'd totally buy the entire collection.


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## Hawkeye (Dec 2, 2005)

You know what they should do with the likes of her and Marilyn Monroe? They should get a model and do a dead ringer for them in a classic pose.


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## n_j_t (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *youbeabitch* 
_You know what they should do with the likes of her and Marilyn Monroe? They should get a model and do a dead ringer for them in a classic pose._

 
Oooh! Oooh! Mariska Hartigay as her mom, the divine Ms Jayne Mansfield.


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## Juneplum (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_j_t* 
_Oooh! Oooh! Mariska Hartigay as her mom, the divine Ms Jayne Mansfield._

 

duddddeee  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . i'd be _ALL_ over that... i LOVE mariska hargitay!! she looks a lot like her mom!


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## Viva_la_MAC_Girl (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Juneplum* 
_duddddeee  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . i'd be ALL over that... i LOVE mariska hargitay!! she looks a lot like her mom!_

 
Yay she does... she always looks so hot on the red carpet!!


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## user4 (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 
_No you aren't. You've quite clearly shown that you've missed the point entirely. Whilst you and your teenage friends may not buy this collection, it will appeal to an entire section of the makeup buying community that MAC are also aiming to attract. Y'see MACs target audience is everybody, which is where the All Races, All Sexes, All Ages bit (that you so casually dismissed) comes in. They want to sell to EVERYONE, which from a business point of view makes perfect sense. And while you may believe that the majority of MACs customers are young people wanting wild colours because that's the impression you get from Internet groups, you're wrong. It varies a bit by location, of course, but the bulk of MACs business is from people wanting more subtle looks, and regardless of what you think, plenty of older customers shop at MAC. Ask any MAC MA if you don't believe me. In fact Son_Risa posts here and she works for MAC, so feel free to ask her.

Think about it, why would MAC not want to target the older demographic? After all, teenagers in general have nowhere near as much to spend as more mature customers. MAC would be pretty silly to ignore them, don't you think? And they are just the people this collection is aimed at. This collection will fly off the shelves. The older customers will love it and I don't think MAC will be in the least bit bothered that you and your friends aren't buying it._

 
i'm going to have to agree with u completly. in a marketing perspective they are trying to broaden their range and not too many people are closeminded to not buy a color they may like because someone older is wearing it. my mom wears mac, yeah she doesnt wear bright ass colors but maybe if MAC came out with colors that she liked better, she would buy it more often, i think that's what MAC is trying to do... and i think it's smart!!!


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## Cruella (Dec 2, 2005)

It's funny...when I think of MAC, the first thing that comes to mind isn't teenagers OR older women...it's DRAG QUEENS. LOL

I think the whole point of the Icon collections is to show that everyone can wear MAC and look good.

Now play nice before I have to get my belt


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## Isis (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_j_t* 
_Oh lord, y'all! I respectfully suggest we let this go. Because the horse? He is dead. 

As an aside...I sobbed my little teenage heart out when Audrey Hepburn died--she was my icon. Still is._

 
Ditto... like a wise someone once posted many years ago:
"Arguing on a forum is like competing in the special olympics." or a brick wall if you'd like to be more PC.
You've all got valid points I'm sure but we're all entitled to our own _personal opinions_ whatever they might be. Let it go.

Oh me too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have all of her movies and a few biographies. I absolutly adore her over anyone else.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Cruella* 
_It's funny...when I think of MAC, the first thing that comes to mind isn't teenagers OR older women...it's DRAG QUEENS. LOL_

 
I think we can thank Ru Paul for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I feel like watching Too Wong Fu & Priscilla Queen of the Desert now


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## Classic Beauty (Dec 2, 2005)

I love audrey hepburn!  I tried to model my hair for homecoming after her's in breakfast at tiffany's.  

I love all classic hollywood actors and actresses.


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## Star (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_I mean Christina Aguilara & Pam Anderson were hot sellers because young girls want to look like that._

 
That's not something I'd brag about.  Or at least if I was going to brag about it, I'd learn to spell their names right, ROFL.


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## n_j_t (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *FairladyZ* 
_Oh me too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have all of her movies and a few biographies. I absolutly adore her over anyone else._

 
I have most of her movies too (My Fair Lady was tough--I love her, but HATE musicals!), and a biography. My favourite is still _Breakfast at Tiffany's_, but _Two For the Road _ was, IMO, one of her absolute best performances ever.


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## PrettyKitty (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

  Just like ya'll wouldn't dream of wearing colors promoted by Paris Hilton, I couldn't dream of wearing colors promoted by a 60 year old!!  
 
Oh my... LOL! I love Prrr, even if it's Paris Hilton's fav lipglass! So why not Catherine Deneuve fav shades?


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## Isis (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_j_t* 
_I have most of her movies too (My Fair Lady was tough--I love her, but HATE musicals!)_

 
If I recall correctly she was very upset that they didn't use her voice for the singing in _MFL_. Actually that whole movie was an upsetting experience to her.
I'm not much for muicals either, but whats ammusing is that _Funny Face_ was the movie that first turned me on to her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only because I love Fred Astaire & ballroom dancing. I really want to take that up again since it's so much fun, but it costs so much $$$!


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## amandamakeup (Dec 2, 2005)

I think this thread is kinda dumb....mac is not only for young people. This is the icon collection....who you see is an Icon...I know most people probably wanted to see someone like gwen stefani...but...fact is, she isnt an icon yet. 
I think in my opinion that Catherine Deneuve is an excellent rep for this collection.
The fact that she is kind of unrecognizable in the picture is probably because thats what mac does....they always have looks like that. Its like having kevyn aucoin do the nudest of faces and not transfer the person at all....odds are..it probably wont happen. 
anyways..hopefully nobody gets offended with my post...looks like theres alot worse up there. 
toodles!
Amanda


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## n_j_t (Dec 3, 2005)

Quote:

  If I recall correctly she was very upset that they didn't use her voice for the singing in MFL.  
 
I thought that was for _Breakfast_--when she sang "Moon River". Maybe I'm mixed up though...


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## blueyedlady87 (Dec 3, 2005)

**Sigh**

Hey guys!! Alright, I have given this some serious thinking. And I honestly want to make things right. I apoligize for making generalizations. And if I sounded like I was a know-it-all I'm sorry for that. My intent wasn't to try and speak for anyone but myself or insult any different age groups. I think there is beauty at any age, young or old. I am really sorry- re-reading my posts I think I came off completely wrong. I didn't exactly get off to a very good footon Specktra! I hope you guys can forgive me and that we can all just get past and focus on our commonality- MAC. 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *SonRisa* 
_- I don't particularly like seeing 50+ women in drag queen makeup either, but what does that have to do with MAC? Although we do sell Electric Eel and Pink Poodle, most "older" women don't buy that! And that's what we're (here in the board) trying to say. YES, MAC is known for color, but that's not all we offer. We offer quality across the board for a low price. And our customers know this. That's why they've been loyal for so many years.
-I don't think of a young hip girl. You may, but you're simply one person in a customer base of billions. Sure there's probably other 16 year olds who agree with you, but you don't represent every 16 year old. As a 25 year old, I think of unique colors and quality at an affordable price. Notice I said unique, not bright. Because Vex is damn unique color if I do say so myself and I've used that on 80 year olds and they looked stunning!
-I cannot believe you used an example of a homeless man wandering into Saks. All I can really say to that is WHAT THE F*CK? Little lady you better change your views if you ever expect to work for MAC. And I really do mean that in a kind way. You have a lot to learn. I'm trying not to be condescending, but you must realize that you don't know everything, nor should you be expected to, but come on now!_

 
What I was saying about old women in drag queen makeup wasn't directly realted to MAC. But I have seen some 50+ women come and buy Parfait Amor (or however the heck ya spell it!) and then proceed to smear it from lash line to brow. Thats just wrong to me. Thats all I was saying about that! And maybe my little comparison was a tad mean. Sorry. And about how you said I would have to change my views to work at MAC, theres a way to have your own personal opinions and hide them from customers. I would never insult or belittle a customer! But in my head, I might roll my eyes!
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *youbeabitch* 
_I've read through this post and everytime I've read through it you've sounded like a bratty know it all. I mean some of the things your saying, have baffled me. Like this thing about a homeless person? SonRisa hit the nail on the head when she said What the F*ck? And how you're looking at it from a Marketing point of view-but then you say you're a minor, with a 3.8 GPA, go to high school full time (I didn't know you could go only part time? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), and are active in your church. 
Sweetie, you can have your opinions but let me tell you real quick that just because you're high school teacher said something about marketing, doesnt make you an expert. 
You are always welcome to an opinion as well. But as you have learned rather quickly on here your opinion must have something credible to back it up with. Not something your high school teacher told you. 
But babe-I'm only 23, I go to college, I'm taking 18 hours this semester, working a 40 hour work week, and have a husband and a kid to go home too every night. I grew up kinda fast. I've learned that I don't know everything and most importantly, I don't have to be right. I've learned that 99% of the time if I just shut up and listened to people-who have already been through what i'm going through life is a hell of a lot easier.  I've also learned not to discriminate against people. 
Barbie-you are going to have to grow up a WHOLE lot if you want to work at MAC and your attitude will have to change. I think you are very smart and have a lot going for you, but with the attitude I've read on here (and I pray to god its only an online thing) it will hold you back bigtime in the real world away from your parents. _

 
Thats really cool that you can balance all that! I wasn't trying to say that my opinion was fact. It's just that- my opinion. About full-time- I just meant that I don't really have alot of free time on my hands! And I don't really think anyone needs facts to back up their opinion. I will adment I'm very judgemental. And about my attitude, if i do work at MAC I know I'd have to hide it from certain customers. Believe me, with my attitude I've learned to control it in certain environments! Thanks 4 the advice.
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lianna* 
_So barbie_doll_713, you're entitled to your own opinion but I think you should've just been more considerate of other members' feelings because of what you said about aging and about how MAC is supposedly a 'young' brand but remember, one day you're gonna be that age too so are you gonna stop buying MAC?_

 
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I definaetly should have said things differently. And yes I plan on buying MAC for a loong time. But when I'm 50 I won't be wearing the same colors i do now.
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Star* 
_That's not something I'd brag about.  Or at least if I was going to brag about it, I'd learn to spell their names right, ROFL._

 
Well if those people are good enough for MAC, then why wouldn't they be good enough for you? And if I spelled them wrong I apoligize, when I get pissed I type really fast.


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## Shawna (Dec 3, 2005)

I always say the hardest thing about posting on a forum is that people seldom can tell what tone you are taking when you are writing something.  I have an evil sense of humour so people misunderstand my warped twisted jokes sometimes and I have to eat crow.  Welcome to Specktra, and we are happy to have you


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## MACmermaid (Dec 3, 2005)

hello all   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   i know this thread has totally become a dead horse, but i just needed to add my 2 cents as a longtime MAC user who is 31 (i.e., ancient).  first of all, Turbokittykat - you go, girl - i totally agreed w/ everything you said (and you said it so well too). for the younger women, i just to add to everything that's been said already to be more open-minded, please! it's not as simple/black and white as "bright colors for the teenagers/20-somethings, neutrals for those of us over 30". that is simplifying things waayyy too much. i mean even a younger girl might not want to bust out with the electric eel for church, right?  conversely, believe it or not, some of us older girls still like to go out on the weekends and rock a fun look w/ brighter colors (not to worry, i'm not talking about parfait amour up to my eyebrows).  the point is that everything and every look has it's time and place. that goes for the young, the old, and the in-between.  so please don't blow off an entire collection b/c the face of the collection has a few years on you. Catherine is just there to give us an inspiration and to show us a beautiful example of how the colors in the collection can be worn. the beauty and the art of makeup application comes when we take that inspiration and make it our own!  and that can be done by a MAC user of any age!!!





    ok, sorry i had to jump in here but i just had to.  now this horse is really dead. thanks for reading if you've made it this far!


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## Isis (Dec 3, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_j_t* 
_I thought that was for Breakfast--when she sang "Moon River". Maybe I'm mixed up though..._

 
Hmm maybe that too? But I deffinitelly know that was done with MFL though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to look up [email protected] and see.


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## blueyedlady87 (Dec 3, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shawna* 
_





 I always say the hardest thing about posting on a forum is that people seldom can tell what tone you are taking when you are writing something.  I have an evil sense of humour so people misunderstand my warped twisted jokes sometimes and I have to eat crow.  Welcome to Specktra, and we are happy to have you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Haha, wow. Boy did I ever learn that! Thank you very much!


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## aquarius11 (Dec 4, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACmermaid* 
_hello all   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   i know this thread has totally become a dead horse, but i just needed to add my 2 cents as a longtime MAC user who is 31 (i.e., ancient).  first of all, Turbokittykat - you go, girl - i totally agreed w/ everything you said (and you said it so well too). for the younger women, i just to add to everything that's been said already to be more open-minded, please! it's not as simple/black and white as "bright colors for the teenagers/20-somethings, neutrals for those of us over 30". that is simplifying things waayyy too much. i mean even a younger girl might not want to bust out with the electric eel for church, right?  conversely, believe it or not, some of us older girls still like to go out on the weekends and rock a fun look w/ brighter colors (not to worry, i'm not talking about parfait amour up to my eyebrows).  the point is that everything and every look has it's time and place. that goes for the young, the old, and the in-between.  so please don't blow off an entire collection b/c the face of the collection has a few years on you. Catherine is just there to give us an inspiration and to show us a beautiful example of how the colors in the collection can be worn. the beauty and the art of makeup application comes when we take that inspiration and make it our own!  and that can be done by a MAC user of any age!!!





    ok, sorry i had to jump in here but i just had to.  now this horse is really dead. thanks for reading if you've made it this far!_

 
I couldn't agree with you more, MACmermaid!!!


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## Hawkeye (Dec 4, 2005)

Barbie-
as long as you learn from this experience its OK. We (or at least I do-I know many of the other ladies are also very forgiving!)  forgive you and we hope you enjoy Specktra


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## MACmermaid (Dec 4, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *aquarius11* 
_I couldn't agree with you more, MACmermaid!!!_

 

thanks sweetie!!


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## n_j_t (Dec 5, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *FairladyZ* 
_Hmm maybe that too? But I deffinitelly know that was done with MFL though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to look up [email protected] and see._

 

Yes! You're right. And Julie Andrews was passed over for the part of Eliza. The 2 reasons many say Audrey wasn't nominated for an Oscar that year. Thank you IMDB


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## Star (Dec 6, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *barbie_doll_713* 
_Well if those people are good enough for MAC, then why wouldn't they be good enough for you? And if I spelled them wrong I *apoligize*, when I get pissed I type really fast._

 
So you must have been typing really fast for this post too.

PS: You're damned right they aren't good enough for me. Idolize Pammy Anderson?  No thanks.


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## blueyedlady87 (Dec 7, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Star* 
_So you must have been typing really fast for this post too.

PS: You're damned right they aren't good enough for me. Idolize Pammy Anderson?  No thanks._

 
Wow, geez. Give a girl a break!  Sorry your so anal about spelling.


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## Star (Dec 8, 2005)

That would be "you're" (a contraction of "you are"), not "your".

I'm not "anal"(see below) about anything, and I don't go around internet forums insinuating that because a woman is no longer in her twenties (or younger), somehow she is to be valued less.

While it has been somewhat entertaining watching you attempt to back-pedal as fast as you can, it has now become tiresome. You brought this on yourself, so I think you need to deal.

I think you mean "anal retentive" which is psycho-babble for.... not much of anything of value.


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## Closet_Full (Dec 9, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Star* 
_That would be "you're" (a contraction of "you are"), not "your".

I'm not "anal"(see below) about anything, and I don't go around internet forums insinuating that because a woman is no longer in her twenties (or younger), somehow she is to be valued less.

While it has been somewhat entertaining watching you attempt to back-pedal as fast as you can, it has now become tiresome. You brought this on yourself, so I think you need to deal.

I think you mean "anal retentive" which is psycho-babble for.... not much of anything of value._

 
God. This is so silly. Can we all just move on? She made a mistake and sincerely apologized. I respect that, especially given the fact that she is only a teenager!!! When I was that age, I never apologized for anything!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Don't we all make mistakes? Isn't that how people grow? Make mistakes and learn from them!!!! Give her a break like she asks, please.


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## blueyedlady87 (Dec 9, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Closet_Full* 
_God. This is so silly. Can we all just move on? She made a mistake and sincerely apologized. I respect that, especially given the fact that she is only a teenager!!! When I was that age, I never apologized for anything!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Don't we all make mistakes? Isn't that how people grow? Make mistakes and learn from them!!!! Give her a break like she asks, please._

 
Thanks!! I don't know what the big deal here is, we've all moved on. Let's not continue to bicker back and forth... especially over stupid gramatical errors when we all know that is not the real reason why Star has a problem w/ me. And by the way Star, I didn't backpedal: I re-read what I wrote and realized that I came off completely wrong. I made a mistake like Closet Full said and at least I'm mature enough to admit it.


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## Hawkeye (Dec 9, 2005)

Closet-I wasn't going to say anything but I'm glad you did. 

Seriously this has gotton way out of hand and now I think it's just bullying. I don't care if that particular member has it in their head that they have a right to bully this person but they need to get over it and fast. 

It especially bothers me that this person all they have on her is some spelling and gramatical errors. So what? I don't spell correctly all the time and god knows my grammer sucks. 

Star-she's learning and we just need to let it go for God's sake.You're supposed to be the "adult"-start acting like it. The more you nit pick and stuff the more you're acting just as bad.  

I know you are one of the sweetiest people on here but it's over babe. Show her how awesome you are star 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 not how grammatically crazy you are seeming.  

Now Barbie-Stop egging her on. I know your going to wonder how you are doing so but everytime you respond to whatever she responds to your egging her on-therefore making this already pointless thread longer and even more pointless. Show us how mature you can be by ignoring the rest of this thread. 

Sorry. I've just had enough of this childish stuff even though I will miss how entertaining this thread has been.


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## user3 (Dec 9, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *youbeabitch* 
_
Seriously this has gotton way out of hand and now I think it's just bullying. I don't care if that particular member has it in their head that they have a right to bully this person but they need to get over it and fast. _

 




 I don't understand why some people can not just let this thread die.
**stabs thread to death with tweezers**


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## Hawkeye (Dec 9, 2005)

LOL ever watch that family Guy Episode where Peter and the gang are out to sea and the town of Quohog think they died and are having funeral services out by the ocean and Mayor West starts quoting from the Bible saying, " The Bible says an eye for an eye so now we will take our revenge on the Sea" and then takes a knife and starts stabbing at the waves then stands up and says, " I think you learned your lesson now." to the ocean?


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## rouquinne (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *FairladyZ* 
_I think we can thank Ru Paul for that_

 
i actually met RuPaul at the launch party for the first Viva Glam lipstick.

he was VERY sweet!

and VERY TALL!!!!


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## annnettem (Dec 24, 2005)

*ok...I got 1/2 way through this thread before I felt the need to comment*

I will go back and read the whole thread, but here is my opinion on what I have read. If we look at the runways which is where most fashion, including, but not limited to makeup comes from, then we will see some really CRAZY things! I myself do shop couture, but when you shop couture it is not intended to be worn the same way it is worn on the runways. The same goes for MAC collections. How many times do we see the awesome artistic pictures on the postcards for every collection that are very beautiful art, but you would never wear this look on the street. I think (and I'm 33) that MAC is an awesome promoter of their line. It does have everything for every age. My 87 year old mother in law, myself, and my 17 year old step daughter all wear MAC and we are in the Miami/Ft Lauderdale area which is one of the hottest, most trendy spots in this country. I see plenty of women above 25 shopping at MAC. Infact, I see more adults than teenagers. I think that ANYONE thinking that any product line is for 1 age group is being very closed minded! I am only 33 and was happy to finally see someone classy and clothed representing this company. I see plenty of women here looking very edgy and hip and WHO says that shouldn't be. I think anything that makes a woman feel beautiful is great! Isn't that the whole point of makeup anyway? MAC will never lose customers based on who represents them. In the end it is the product that sells! I would love to see any of the youngsters here go to a MAC counter and have a C. Deneuve makeover. I am sure any of the talented MA at MAC could give you any look you were going for with this line! I dare any to try. And BTW even if a 85 year old woman wears blue eyeshadow who are WE to judge? I see 16 year olds wearing thongs on the beach, but who am "I" to judge. To each his own I say! And I would also dare to say that any of the hip and trendy couture lines like Dolce and Gabbana would want you to wear their clothes on the street like they have them displayed on the runway so I don't think MAC was only gearing this line for the "older" crowd, they were just "showing" the older women that they too could wear MAC and look beautiful! Just my 2 cents!


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## FlaLadyB (Dec 29, 2005)

welll I can represent the OLDER crowd here and I wear MAC!


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## FlaLadyB (Dec 29, 2005)

by the way all.....One of those OLD LADIES is Cher ...she is turning 60  

 ..yes 60 years old...

Now THERE is an ICON!


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## Isis (Dec 29, 2005)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rouquinne* 
_i actually met RuPaul at the launch party for the first Viva Glam lipstick.

he was VERY sweet!

and VERY TALL!!!!




_

 
Oh thats awesome, He seems like he would be too!

Drag queens are a ball to hang out with! There's a club in DC that has Drag Queen fashion shows once a month and its SO much fun


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## FlaLadyB (Dec 29, 2005)

Meeting Ru Paul must have been great fun!  I love the Viva Glam cards I have of him/her in that red cat suit!


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## a914butterfly (Dec 29, 2005)

just a comment and i hope i dont get cursed for this - but liza minelli and diana ross were icons for MAC, and they are older women too. i think they look great for their age and you mentioned way back that you dont think the way she is represented in the postcard for this launch isnt good, but i feel that if catherine d. didnt like it, she wouldn't have approved it. i would think she would have the final word on the collection and how she looks and how she is being represented by mac??
just my 2 cents.  thanks


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## orodwen (Dec 29, 2005)

i want cyndi lauper as an icon as well as marilyn monroe.  i want MAC to come up w/ a shade of red-coral that dups so many pics i've seen of marilyn.  if you don't know what i'm talking about i'll go scrounge up a pic & put it in my file.  ok, back to lurking.


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## lipstickandhate (Jan 9, 2006)

Hahaha does anyone else find it hilarious this entire thread was spawned by " I am kind of disappointed by Catherine's picture. I was hoping for something classier, not grandma got a new leather jacket"? Jeeeez, I am a little suprised people got so hot and bothered over THAT!


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## DaisyDee (Jan 10, 2006)

I just read through this thread and laughed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think what some teens and 20-somethings forget is that most of us "older women" (I'm about to turn 38 ) have A LOT more money to spend on makeup than they do! LOL 
Sooo OF COURSE MAC will market to us old henz.


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## FlaLadyB (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *DaisyDee* 
_I just read through this thread and laughed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think what some teens and 20-somethings forget is that most of us "older women" (I'm about to turn 38 ) have A LOT more money to spend on makeup than they do! LOL 
Sooo OF COURSE MAC will market to us old henz. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am SO GONNA KILL YOU! LOl!!  38 is NOT OLD....Sob...! I am older than you so nooo...not going there!!


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## litlaur (Jan 10, 2006)

I think MAC does target specific audiences, but target marketing doesn't mean you're limited to one audience. You just have different product lines targeted to different audiences. Target marketing is based on so much more than age.


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## Pink_minx (Jan 15, 2006)

Well I think she looks great for her age and I would def. buy this collection (if I have money lol)...I also think Lauren Hutton would be a great ICON even though she has her own line of MU for older women her age...she would also be a great ICON. 



​


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## CathyEarnshaw (Jan 20, 2006)

Just wanted to add.....I'm 52 and I bought the entire Catherine Deneuve collection.

I think MAC was absolutely brilliant to gear this collection around a "mature" woman.
...smart marketing!
I had never gone near a MAC counter in the past. MAC didn't appeal to me at all.

Buying this collection has gotten me to try a product that I normally wouldn't have touched with a 10 foot pole. I discovered that I really love the lipsticks....so now, I'm sure that I will be purchasing more in the future.

So.....MAC just got me as a customer...and I'm sure many other "old ladies" as well. Smart move.

By the way....so you realize how much the ENTIRE collection cost me? 

....and being "old" and retired....having paid off my home, car, etc.; I could afford it easily.

Most "mature" woman have more money to spend on luxury items such as cosmetics. It's about time that big companies realize that and begin appealing more to them!


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## bAbY_cHiCkEn01 (Jan 27, 2006)

Okay to be honest, I like the Icon collections of course, but I didn't even know who the hell Catherine Deneuve is, so that made me wonder, why would they put someone up who isn't (as far as I can tell) not very well known...? maybe I've been kept in the dark too long or maybe it's just coz I'm only 19 but hey... she looks great though...


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## Cruella (Jan 27, 2006)

Catherine Deneuve is extremely well known, just not to people who think the universe began in 1990 and have never bothered to learn about things that have taken place before then.


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## Hawkeye (Jan 27, 2006)

OK see Cruella, I'm going to have to respectfully point out that comment was really uncalled for. She maybe very well known but not everyone is going to-well how can I say this-care who she is. For example, I adore Mae West I know a lot about her, I actually care who she is because I've seen her movies and know about her. I adore Paul McCartney, I think he was insanely influential to the modern move of music but I also know about him and therefore I care who he is. I'm a fan of Spanish, English, American, Japaneese, and Chineese culture. I also like German culture but only during the WW2. I've never been a fan of France (nothing personal against it it just doesn't interest me. The only person that has remotely entertained my interest was Napolean Bonapart)

There are many of us who have never been culturally savvy. I can not tell you the name of many actors in hollywood right now, nor can I tell you many groups or musicians. Why? They just aren't important to me. 

So you can't say that everyone who doesn't know who she is thinks the world started in 1990. Sometimes a person comes around that just never sparked our interest and they just aren't important to a person.

NOW, like I said before, I think it's great that she was chosen and many people have learned who she is (for those of us like me who really didnt care in the first place) and maybe it will start a new wave for her. Because of this I know I personally wanted to learn more about her.

So now I've thrown my little fit. I'm going to order some lunch.


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## Cruella (Jan 27, 2006)

There is a difference between saying you don't know who someone is and saying that the person isn't well-known.


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## Hawkeye (Jan 27, 2006)

True dat.


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## bAbY_cHiCkEn01 (Jan 28, 2006)

How insulting to insinuate that Just because Im 19 I don't WANT to know anything before my time. That;s also insulting to my parents who taught me to be open minded and taught me about the past- as you can't have a future if there was no past! Grrrrrr...


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## Glow (Jan 28, 2006)

To me it's not the Catherine images that turn me off from the collection it's the colours. They're a bit too deep for my liking. However I actually think Catherine looks gorgeous in the display. This coming from a 16 year old.


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## blueyedlady87 (Jan 29, 2006)

i wish this thread could die for good!


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## blueyedlady87 (Jan 29, 2006)

btw, if a 100 year old grandma in diapers was promoting a collection, but i loved the colors id still buy it. icon collections dont even come out all that often, its not like MAC is permantly having only mature models.


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## Hawkeye (Jan 29, 2006)

HAHAAHAHAAHA this thread will never die unless the mods pull the plug


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## FlaLadyB (Feb 11, 2006)

If Anyone Has A Catherine D Postcard With Her In The Black Jacket...please Find Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## natalie75 (Feb 12, 2006)

*Ladies.........all ages*

Makeup is fun, it makes us all feel better and glamorous, special. My daughter 21 wears it, I am 47 and wear it and my mother who recently was diagnosed with cancer begged me to bring my MAC case to the hospital and do her face. It cheered her up immensely.  It's about looking as good and feeling good, not AGE.  Not what icon MAC chooses to use.


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## Julia Vanhorn (Feb 12, 2006)

Please forgive me for adding on to this thread ( I actually sat here and read the whole thing, and granted it started off very rough and is starting to finally calm down), I just wanted to say that I love the Catherine collection and also think that she is a great person to represent this collection. Before this collection came out, I did not even know who Catherine Deneuve was, but after this collection was launched I am wanting to learn about here and what made her be the icon that MAC sees and remembers in a sense (not sure where I am going with that comment, so please overlook that). I am 20 years old and I would almost say that I am timid of the bright colors, not to say that I won't try and experiment with it. It just that every time and event calls for certain colors. I personally would prefer the calmer colors since it is so versatile. And my first MAC product that I have ever purchased was Parfait Amour, definitely not a staple in my collection. Cranberry, Brown Down, and Shroom are the ones that I use most often.

In reply to the original comment about the grandma bit, I think that Catherine looks great and that I wish my grandmothers could pull that off, but I will love them all just the same.


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## pinotnoir (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *absolut_blonde* 
_Young people are hardly the only ones who buy makeup. My mom is 56 and wears MAC lipsticks almost exclusively. _

 
Not related but, I think we (mac addicts) have to inherit the love for make up from somewhere right? I think we all get it from our mums/grandmothers!

My mum LOVES MAC lipsticks too! I bought her the Catherine D blot powder and she is completely in love with the design. 

Thank goodness for hip mums!


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## Chelly (Feb 18, 2006)

sorry i know its been beaten to death. but i just wanted to say that i think she looks fabulous and very Glam!! i loved the collection! and as for older women wearing mac.. WeLL i'm 21 and my mom is late 40's and love love loves her mac. she has some wild colors that i have too. but shes nto caking it on like i do lol. just live and let live. dont let the media tell u what to wear. just because im years younger than Catherine D doesnt mean that im not gonna buy her makeup collection. 

people need to open their mind and buy what THEY LIKE. not something just because paris hilton is wearing a uber c0ol lip gloss in her latest sex video.


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## askewedmind (Apr 19, 2006)

She looks beautiful people need to accept those who age gracefully.


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## kaliraksha (Apr 20, 2006)

i kind of wanted to stay out of this because it has been nitpicked..... but alas i want to voice my opinion! 

i dont think mac is for a specific age group even if it appeals more to a certain age group... i think it appeals to a unique characteristic in all of us... people who love color and good quality and like the image MAC has. whenever an "older" lady is at the MAC counter she looks freaking awesome when she leaves... and i quietly applaud her for stopping by and getting her make up done otherwise she could leave and end up with "neutral everyday colors" from somewhere else. sure, she may want that... and if you do you can still get that at mac... but i really think mac just appeals to a certain spunk in people... someone who loves beauty and sees makeup as an art. all the MA's there share that spunk and usually do a good job of personifying it.

i do see a few older people sort of shy away from the counter because it is a little intimidating... when i was younger i was a little intimidated of the counter and felt more comfortable at the clinique one

what about us youngsters who will stick to mac for life? i dont see a reason to stop once im 50 or 60... sure i may retire my funky bright sparkly looks... but that might be just to fit my more professional life style...

i think catherine looked very glam and its really cute... because my grandmother had "glamour shots" taken years ago... and thats exactly the pose, red jacket and hair style she had... so it reminds me of her... kind of a soft spot for me i guess. i wouldnt have minded seeing catherine "more sophisticated" because thats the type of "older lady" i plan to be... set in the neutrals... more of a classic beauty (haha i hope)... but seeing her look so stylish was refreshing for me... i love mac even more for not having any age biases and just letting her represent mac... i might have identified more if i had seen her in a classic beauty neutral way because thats what i think i would be like... but it's more "mac" to me the way it was done =)


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## pumpkincat210 (Apr 20, 2006)

I loved the Thunder quad.  I think its the best one since Inventive Eyes..


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## BunnyBunnyBunny (May 31, 2007)

I was seventeen when the Catherine collection came out, and I loved the picture. I still do. I don't think she looks like she's trying to be 'younger' I think she just looks like she's having fun.


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## Raerae (May 31, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *sigwing* 

 
_As far as "young" models or whatever, I'd agree with the Angelina or Gwen, but Paris Hilton?  You've got to be kidding.  I guess if you want to iconize someone who is only famous because they market themself, they are "lucky" enough to have been born into a billionaire family and they can afford to make their own perfume....then while I might consider that a weird sort of person to admire, what do I know....I'm old and apparently have different values._

 
Lots of the products that we use today are made from families that have billions of dollars to invest in them.  So she made a perfume...  Big deal.

Best part of Paris's perfume, is I get compliments on it people ALL the time.  And when they ask who's it from, and I tell them it's Paris's, they are like, "oh..."

It's so funny.


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## DropDeadDarling (Jul 13, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Viva_la_MAC_Girl* 

 
_Or if you know the very first song that aired on MTV...LOL

( I totally agree with your statement - as I made in mine ) here here!!_

 
Totally not the point of the thread, but I know the first song on MTV! Lol.


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## giz2000 (Jul 14, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *DropDeadDarling* 

 
_Totally not the point of the thread, but I know the first song on MTV! Lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Me too...and I actually saw MTV's first broadcast...


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## vcarina88x (Jan 9, 2008)

I think Catherine looks fantastic here, I have 4 copies of the postcard and can honestly say it's one of my faves.  Just because she's older, doesn't mean she shouldn't wear makeup, a leather jacket, a funky hair style...whatever it was you were 'disappointed' with.  Are you critics going to suddenly stop wearing making makeup - or MAC makeup - when you reach a certain age?


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## chocolategoddes (Jan 10, 2008)

yo! i think she looks great! and don't they have those old women in the MAC promo pictures... or at least they do at my nearest MAC. i think its awesome!


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## Kuuipo (Jan 10, 2008)

*Re: Disapointing*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *blueyedlady87* 

 
_I know I'm gonna get alot of crap for saying this... but I'm going to anyway. (And yeah, I know the whole MAC motto..all ages, races, sexes, etc.) But I honestly think MAC should stick to it's target group. Which is like teens-30s. I mean, how many teenagers out there are going to want to run out and buy makeup that is modeled by someone who could be their Grandma? I know that me and my friends won't. I mean Christina Aguilara & Pam Anderson were hot sellers because young girls want to look like that, Catherine's look will not sell as much. Most older women (my mother included) feel uncomfortable shopping at MAC, seeing as it is a young, hip brand; they prefer Estee Lauder or Lancome or something more sophisticated/mature. (Yes I kno MAC is a prodeuct of EL, but the colors and the whole lines are so completely different that I consider them to be unique of eachother.) I would love to see Paris Hilton, Angelina Jolie, Gwen Stefani, or someone like that as a model. People like them will appeal to MACs customers more. I am very sorry if I offend anyone here. I'm just looking at it from a marketing perspective. :roll:_

 
.....I think Catherine D is still looking totally hot...so go ahead and wear the red leather, it still looks good. She has a better figure than most of the college girls I see on the beach.
I'm 45. When I go to MAC, it looks like a fastfood joint on a saturday afternoon-packed with trendy teenage girls trying on products. I've stood behind them with my list, frustrated, and often just leave because it can be a zoo......that is at the MAC freestanding store in the mall. Macy's is not mobbed with kids, so middle age women will spend their bucks there.
Also, by the time a woman is 60, she is not worried about the newest colors, she wants something that looks great on her, and she wants really personalized service.  My NARS reps call me at home, they now what I have,what is and isn't going to work on my face, and they know that I too have been an artist and want what looks good on me rather than what's hot this second on Hannah Montana. 
Catherine Deneuve is a classic, but often unappreciated by 17 year olds. Those of us who are more seasoned see her as an iconic beauty and prefer her to say, Xtina . So maybe teenagers aren't gonna buy this look, and maybe it won't get noticed by women who are more experienced in years because , let's face it a career woman is not going to run out and purchase something shown on Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan,Gwen Stefani (who is middle aged) because they want to be taken seriously on the job.

At a certain age, woman prefer Catherine Zeta Jones or Catherine Deneuve in an ad campaign because they feel they can trust the look.

Women do not depreciate as they age.  It's important to see that. We gain experience, knowledge, and wrinkles. Wrinkles are not ugly. Aging is not ugly. Its a fact of life. Older women know this, and the self actualized ones do not want to look like adolescents.


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## frocher (Jan 10, 2008)

......


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## Briar (Jan 10, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *blueyedlady87* 

 
_Lol! I do see your point. No need to be 
You also said that the majority of MACs customers want a subtle look (by the way, I never said MAC should be all about the wild, fun look!). Thats quite wrong. I worked in a Macys and people who wanted a serious, more plain look went to Clinique or Chanel. If you want a fun, young, modern look you go to MAC. 
_

 
I think this is exactly the point.  MAC is deliberately broadening their appeal rather than just attracting the "young, trendy and hip" because, lets face it.  Many young people are fickle and will go for what's "in" now.And while you might have a lot of money to spend on MAC cosmetics, many folks your age do not.  Older customers, if treated well and given products that they like will become loyal, repeat customers for life.  Baby Boomers are the largest segment of our population, and the wealthiest.  In the long run it will cost MAC a lot more money to alienate them than the younger set.  MAC wants the business that is now going to Clinique and Chanel.  

As you pointed out, brands like Clinique, Chanel and Estee Lauder are associated now with an older clientele.  Well, those of us who are getting older don't necessarily want to be associated with brands that are known for the classic, plain looks.  Many of us want to wear brighter, hipper, funner colors.  We want to associate with brands that are associated with a hipper image.  Who wants to be made to feel old by the makeup she wears?  I sure don't.


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## Kuuipo (Jan 11, 2008)

[
As you pointed out, brands like Clinique, Chanel and Estee Lauder are associated now with an older clientele. Well, those of us who are getting older don't necessarily want to be associated with brands that are known for the classic, plain looks. Many of us want to wear brighter, hipper, funner colors. We want to associate with brands that are associated with a hipper image. Who wants to be made to feel old by the makeup she wears? I sure don't.[/quote]
There is nothing plain about Lancome,Chanel, L'Oreal, Dior, Givenchy, YSL,NARS, or Shiseido. The age group who buys these products tends to seek out a more sophisticated look. They are "not made to feel old" by the brand they have chosen.The mentioned brands are bright, but the atmosphere that surrounds them tends to be more luxurious and less "I have to have everything new and glittery and metallic".


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## krt (Apr 6, 2008)

Ha and the thread continues....

I had to put in my 2 cents (even though this thread is going on three years old I believe)

I'm sorry but I don't value anyone else's opinion of me more than my own..especially regarding things like physical appearance, I love neon green, teal and glitter..."age appropriate" or not I will wear this until I get over that look and prefer other colors. I'm not going to look a certain way that I don't like just because others think I should now or ever.
Right now at 23, its mostly considered okay to not like to wear neutral colors but I probably still wont like them (as much) in 10, 20, possibly 30 years from now and will still be outlining my eyes in glitterliner...thats just me, and it takes all kinds to make a world.

I also wanted to say that "older women" is a term I hate. To a nine year old...a 16 year old is older, its...just...I hate labeling people generally as "older" or "younger" like there is a specific age group that is right for all else to be based off of.

Okay.....Im done heh


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## revinn (Apr 6, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *pinotnoir* 

 
_Not related but, I think we (mac addicts) have to inherit the love for make up from somewhere right? I think we all get it from our mums/grandmothers!

My mum LOVES MAC lipsticks too! I bought her the Catherine D blot powder and she is completely in love with the design. 

Thank goodness for hip mums! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 
Hahah, well I certainly didn't inherit my obsession!! My mom and my nanny both HATE make up with every ounce of their beings, as do most of my cousins and aunts..quite sad, really. 

I just read through this entire thread, and I feel a strange mixture of amusement and annoyance.."Mature," "older ladies" whatever y'all are being generalized as in this forum, please don't get mad at someone for lumping you all together and then do the exact same thing. I felt an small undercurrent of teen-bashing in response to the comments of a FEW teenagers, and that in no way sums up how MOST youth would feel about purchasing from an Icon collection (I, for one, think you can be smokin' at any age, and I plan to be rocking well into my eighties, God willing). If you're mad that someone made comments about everyone in a certain age group, then don't do it right back. Catherine is a stunning woman who has aged beautifully and who I'm proud to say, as a 17 year old, that I respect and admire immensely. Not all teenagers are prejudiced and think that all women over 30 should lock themselves up and put on paper bags. (Barbie, that was in NO way a jab at you, I personally felt that you were bullied a little bit, and I feel bad that you were jumped on). 
Just a quick addition, I hope no one yells at me for saying this..I'm literally commenting on the posts of four or five people MAX, and I just want everyone to get along and share equal amounts of respect.


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## stacylynne (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm 34 & I love MAC. My mom who is 56 & my grandmother who is 78 loves MAC as well.
The 1 think that I love about MAC, is that there is no animal testing.

Age is just a number. You're as young as you feel.


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