# Cultural Phenom or overrated?



## Shimmer (Sep 21, 2007)

After wiki'ing Elvis, it really hit me exactly how pivotal his career was for the music and entertainment world. Prior to his career, there was no opening for 'black music' or 'soul' or really even rockabilly.
That changed with Elvis Aaron Presley.
Also prior to Elvis, musicians weren't sex symbols and they certainly weren't performers. 
It's truly a tragic waste that so much raw, natural, almost unmatched talent was lost due to drug use.

Some say Elvis was overrated, a product created, based on crowd reactions. I don't agree. What say you? And, was there anyone else of such impact who is commonly disregarded by this generation as a 'joke' and 'old people's music'?


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## flowerhead (Sep 21, 2007)

I think pop music owes a lot to him, and was a true original. His music sounds a little dated to me, but my Nan loves him hehe. The loss of dignity at the end of his career was a truely a tragedy
'Elvis was a hero to many, but he never meant shit to me' - Public Enemy


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## Shimmer (Sep 21, 2007)

Hank Williams Sr


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## Kimberleigh (Sep 21, 2007)

Without Elvis, there would be no Beatles...

Cultural phenom as far as I'm concerned.


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## Shimmer (Sep 21, 2007)

That's one band I have absolutely never gotten the hype about. I'm totally not a Beatles fan, at all.


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## Kimberleigh (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_That's one band I have absolutely never gotten the hype about. I'm totally not a Beatles fan, at all._

 
I worship The Beatles.  I paid almost $600 (for two tix) just to sit and breathe the same air as Paul McCartney when he came through Indianapolis on tour about 5 years ago.  I'd do it again in a heartbeat...


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## archangeli (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_That's one band I have absolutely never gotten the hype about. I'm totally not a Beatles fan, at all._

 
You know, I would be keen to agree with you but I took a Beatles course in university (I was a music student 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and it completely changed my view of them. They were a very influential band and they broke a lot of new ground. It doesn't mean I love all of their music, but I have a great respect for them.

I think Elvis brought rock-and-roll into the mainstream. It was something that was going on for a while but it wasn't marketable. Elvis was a good looking man with a certain "je ne c'est quoi" that was able to bring rock-and-roll into mainstream pop culture.  Definitely a cultural phenomenon


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## Kimberleigh (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *archangeli* 

 
_You know, I would be keen to agree with you but I took a Beatles course in university (I was a music student 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 
I did too (took "Music of The Beatles" in university)!  I loved them before I took the class, but I gained a whole new perspective on them once I took the course.


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## Shimmer (Sep 21, 2007)

I can respect their contribution to pop culture, society, and music, but I just can't appreciate their music. :/


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## Kimberleigh (Sep 21, 2007)

Fair enough...


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## flowerhead (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Hank Williams Sr_

 
? If Elvis took influence from him, Elvis brought it to the masses so others could take influence and made it SOMETHING. I have no idea who that is so he obviously wasn't that inspiring! You aren't going to get one up on me by referencing someone in the past no-one cares about and isn't relavant today


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## Shimmer (Sep 21, 2007)

Are you fucking kidding me?
No one said anything about one upping you. I was linking you to someone who influenced music HEAVILY in the VERY short period of time he was recording.  If he weren't relEvant today, there wouldn't be modern musicians considering his work inspirational or covering his material.


And, you're from London, I wouldn't doubt you didn't know who he was, as the height of his career was in the 40s and very early 50s, and he was an American country/gospel/rockabilly singer from the middle of bumfuck nowhere.


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## flowerhead (Sep 21, 2007)

It just seemed strange the way you linked it not explaining who he was..like you were trying to make look stupid.
I love to be informed actually, I am a complete culture slut. So thanks


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## Shimmer (Sep 21, 2007)

It's a link, and very light reading.


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## flowerhead (Sep 21, 2007)

Sorry for being a sensitive sissy!


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 21, 2007)

I think Elvis' influence (though not my musical taste) is hard to doubt. He's influenced a lot of musicians and got white people more into rock and roll.

I think you can be both overrated and culturally phenomena... Overrated in that people think you can do no wrong or you're the best band ever. Like I don't Fallout Boy, but they might turn into a cultural phenomena. Britney Spears heavily influenced pop, but she is, considering her talent, overrated.


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## janwa09 (Sep 21, 2007)

I love both Elvis and the Beatles....if you listen to the Beatles' music during the early part of the '60s it's obvious that they were mesmerized by American rock n roll particularly by Elvis and Buddy Holly but during their latter years...they totally took on a different approach..one that I think is quite unique to the history of music and rock n roll in general so I definitely disagree with the statement that "without Elvis, there would be no Beatles."  They certainly had their own creative juices stirring up in their bones that with Elvis or not, they were destined to make their own kind of music. 

Another thing, Elvis was a very good looking man...and in the entertainment industry having good looks further ignites a more fruitful career..so maybe some critics would say that he's just a pretty face or something...but to me, he had genuine talent and in the end, this was what made him last for decades in the industry.


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## Shimmer (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *flowerhead* 

 
_Sorry for being a sensitive sissy!_

 
No harm no foul.


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## angeliquea~+ (Sep 22, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *flowerhead* 

 
_I think pop music owes a lot to him, and was a true original. His music sounds a little dated to me, but my Nan loves him hehe. The loss of dignity at the end of his career was a truely a tragedy
*'Elvis was a hero to many, but he never meant shit to me'* - Public Enemy_

 
That's from Fight the Power isn't it? A bit off topic but you know how the lyrics after that sentence goes "He was a straight up racist simple and plain".... what did they mean by that? I've always wanted to know for years, it confuses me because I always thought he did a lot for Black music and breaking it into the mainstream


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## j_absinthe (Sep 22, 2007)

I can appreciate Elvis, and I respect what he did; he was one of the first pop stars to just go all out there, unabashed and reckless. However, he wasn't all that innovative, he just happened to get more publicity because he was white. 

Not to bring race into this, but he was an artist when race was such a big thing in this country. 

He was a hottie back in the day though...


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## MACa6325xi (Sep 22, 2007)

Elvis never did anything for Black Music and I don't mean that in a negative sense. Those Publc Enemy lines are based on a rumor that Elvis did not like Black People. According to a recent article in The New York Times, this rumor is untrue. Both Elvis and The Beatles listened to Black music. Elvis loved Black music, Gospel, Blues, everything. He even went to Black churches to hear the music. The Beatles were also influenced by Black music, (ie.The Isley Brothers) as were numerous artists from the UK. Both Elvis and The Beatles have earned their rightful place in history as "great." Neverthless, these "great' artists were heavily influenced by Black American Music, or I should just say "American Music in the African-American tradition."


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## j_absinthe (Sep 22, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACa6325xi* 

 
_Elvis never did anything for Black Music and I don't mean that in a negative sense. Those Publc Enemy lines are based on a rumor that Elvis did not like Black People. According to a recent article in The New York Times, this rumor is untrue. Both Elvis and The Beatles listened to Black music. Elvis loved Black music, Gospel, Blues, everything. He even went to Black churches to hear the music. The Beatles were also influenced by Black music, (ie.The Isley Brothers) as were numerous artists from the UK. Both Elvis and The Beatles have earned their rightful place in history as "great." Neverthless, these "great' artists were heavily influenced by Black American Music, or I should just say "American Music in the African-American tradition."_

 
Too true. Hell, England's 70's punk scene was heavily influenced by black Reggae artists.


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## Kimberleigh (Sep 22, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *janwa09* 

 
_they totally took on a different approach..one that I think is quite unique to the history of music and rock n roll in general so I definitely disagree with the statement that *"without Elvis, there would be no Beatles."*  They certainly had their own creative juices stirring up in their bones that with Elvis or not, they were destined to make their own kind of music._

 
Actually, that wasn't *my* opinion...It was John Lennon's.


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## silverbelle282 (Sep 22, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *j_absinthe* 

 
_I can appreciate Elvis, and I respect what he did; he was one of the first pop stars to just go all out there, unabashed and reckless. However, he wasn't all that innovative, he just happened to get more publicity because he was white. 

Not to bring race into this, but he was an artist when race was such a big thing in this country. 

He was a hottie back in the day though..._

 
why not bring race into this? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Berry

i'm no music maven, but some people say those were chucks moves first.


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## CaraAmericana (Sep 23, 2007)

MACa6325xi has a point. It was black gospel music that may have help his sound and career. And it is no secret how lively and joyous black churches are therefore influencing his passionate perfomances. 

But I will tell you I am not a big fan of him musically, but I so fascinated by his life. I think I watched Elvis and Me like 100 times and also read the Elvis and Me book like 3 times.


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## Shimmer (Sep 23, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *j_absinthe* 

 
_I can appreciate Elvis, and I respect what he did; he was one of the first pop stars to just go all out there, unabashed and reckless. However, he wasn't all that innovative, he just happened to get more publicity because he was white. 

Not to bring race into this, but he was an artist when race was such a big thing in this country. 

He was a hottie back in the day though..._

 
If it weren't for him being that black gospel soul influenced artist in that day while being a white man, race relations would be set back unbelievably, because it was Elvis bringing forth _that music_ that opened the mainstream's eyes to "maybe they ain't all bad."

He opened doors to the mainstream for black artists that had, up to that point, remained deadbolted shut.


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## Shimmer (Sep 23, 2007)

Talk about long term Careers, look at George Strait, Merle Haggard, and Dwight Yoakum. Their careers all have very interesting points to them, and King George and The Hag are both simultaneously inspiring generations of musical artists (usually country for George) and churning out hits. Merle still sells the venue out. 
Dwight Yoakum basically bootlegged his career, so did Chris LeDeux (SP??) and both have shaped some of the most  successful country stars around. Just because they're playing country music doesn't mean they're not successful.


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## j_absinthe (Sep 24, 2007)

Don't get me wrong, *Shimmer*, I agree with what you're saying. I just feel like most of those black artists did it better, not to mention there are several more Southern, "down home" artists that had more to offer in the way of substance.


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## Shimmer (Sep 24, 2007)

True, they may have done the music better but they lacked the charisma and stage presence he had. Not down playing their music or talents at all.


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