# Frustrations With MAC



## Macnarsandlove (Nov 25, 2007)

I have found several things frustrating about MAC here are some of mine and I would like to hear yours. Dont get me wrong I spend almost every penny of my "disposible income" on the stuff and I get a "funny feeling" when I get stuff I've been lemming over, BUT... Dont some things just make you kinda "Damn you MAC! Why did you do this to me?" Here are some of mine:

1- I just went to a cco and they had more shadows and blushes than the counter. NO LIE. I saw everything from msfs to nordies exclusives and thought CRAP. I saw all the tendertones I love that I ran out and bought. I started to count the $ I wasted on stuff but at the same time I know that this was a fluke cco outing for me so I chalked that up. I guess I'm just salty. Wait I definitely am, anyway...  

2- Bring back the stuff that you know ppl love. Parrot is coming soon but metal rock and petticoat have yet to make another appearance. Just re-release the stuff even for the ppl that complain about constant re-promotes.

3- This has more to do w/ employees that "freestyle" at the counters. By "freestyling" I mean the we do accept b2m w/no metal pans or we dont. And my favorite that I go after buying $200 worth of stuff "We dont give samples cause ppl sell them on ebay". I have worked in retail and since I didnt own Express I couldnt say I am going to change that policy cause I want to. I'm going to guess that there is some leeway with what managers well do at there location but cmon. 

Now your turn. I am a true MAC fiend and I really dont see it stopping any time soon but some things are simply frustrating. Thanks for looking!


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## aeni (Nov 25, 2007)

I dislike the idea of .50 increases each year.  For me it comes down to "How much would you pay for an e/s in 10 years?"

I dislike it, but I still pay it.


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## Angelah (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *smith130* 

 
_
2- Bring back the stuff that you know ppl love. Parrot is coming soon but metal rock and petticoat have yet to make another appearance. Just re-release the stuff even for the ppl that complain about constant re-promotes.

3- This has more to do w/ employees that "freestyle" at the counters. By "freestyling" I mean the we do accept b2m w/no metal pans or we dont. And my favorite that I go after buying $200 worth of stuff "We dont give samples cause ppl sell them on ebay". I have worked in retail and since I didnt own Express I couldnt say I am going to change that policy cause I want to. I'm going to guess that there is some leeway with what managers well do at there location but cmon. _

 

They normally do bring back things people loved that much, hence why they are bringing Parrot back among other things to come.  It may not be as soon as everyone would like, but MAC has always been good to it's customers, so don't worry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





As for the MAC Artists "freestyling" -- we really aren't supposed to take back eyeshadows without the pan in it.  People try to use the metal pan as one piece of their 6 recycles and that's not fair.  So those who are taking the plastic pots with no metal pans are not following company policy.  And as far as the samples go.. I have yet to hear that we cannot give samples.  MAC sends us their own sample cups for that specific purpose.  So the sampling is at the artists' discretion.  Obviously if someone is asking for a sample cup full of each pigment we sell, that's a little crazy and I'd give them a big fat DENIED 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Something that irritates me about MAC -- we don't always get our gratis on time!  Hahaha.  I get sad when I don't have my product to play with by the time the collection launches because I hate sampling for myself


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## bartp (Nov 25, 2007)

*first we have to be honest with ourselves :*
these sentences might describe an avid Mac customer
- - - - - - - - -  - - -  -
- eager to try everything
- eager to know everything
- looking good is just a first step, we always believe we can improve
- can't easily be fooled by trends, but eager to take a trend on board with a good dose of criticism
- fond of the past, and equally passionate about the future
- we all want our favorites back, but in some way, they are our favorites because they were LE's
- we all complain about not finding that ultimate product, and yet we "complain" that we can't keep up with all the different new collections.


*what irritates me :*
- - - - - - - - 
- I dislike the fact that LE products can be sold out, and then a few months later you hear from someone that people bought the same products in some kind of sale or CCO
for me:

*LE - for me - means : available for a short time, and not available as a form of "shortage"*

- - - - - -  - -

*what I admire* (before this thread becomes to negative)
- - - - -  - -  -
- I admire the patience of MA's. They get bombarded by our questions and rumours. I don't think that there are any other shops where salespeople are confronted with the same kind of customer.
- I admire MAC's potential to re-invent items and colours. It seems like something is changing or shifting. With all the collections that we have seen this last year, it's like a store is becoming more LE than permanent collection.

*what I'd like:*
- - - - - - - -  -
- samples : I'd like some - more honest - system, where you can save up for samples.
- or maybe some kind of "gift with purchase" promotion, who can resist that. (and it might help us take in any raises in price)
- therapy for learning to cope with LE items. It's not the end of the world if we weren't able to get it, because they always have something better and brighter waiting around the corner.


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## KeshieShimmer (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Angelah* 

 
_As for the MAC Artists "freestyling" -- we really aren't supposed to take back eyeshadows without the pan in it.  People try to use the metal pan as one piece of their 6 recycles and that's not fair.  So those who are taking the plastic pots with no metal pans are not following company policy.
(_

 
It sucks that not ALL counters/stores follow this policy.


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## CaraAmericana (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *bartp* 

 
_*first we have to be honest with ourselves :*
these sentences might describe an avid Mac customer
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
- eager to try everything
- eager to know everything
- looking good is just a first step, we always believe we can improve
- can't easily be fooled by trends, but eager to take a trend on board with a good dose of criticism
- fond of the past, and equally passionate about the future
- we all want our favorites back, but in some way, they are our favorites because they were LE's
- we all complain about not finding that ultimate product, and yet we "complain" that we can't keep up with all the different new collections.


*what irritates me :*
- - - - - - - - 
- I dislike the fact that LE products can be sold out, and then a few months later you hear from someone that people bought the same products in some kind of sale or CCO
for me:

*LE - for me - means : available for a short time, and not available as a form of "shortage"*

- - - - - - - -

*what I admire* (before this thread becomes to negative)
- - - - - - - -
- I admire the patience of MA's. They get bombarded by our questions and rumours. I don't think that there are any other shops where salespeople are confronted with the same kind of customer.
- I admire MAC's potential to re-invent items and colours. It seems like something is changing or shifting. With all the collections that we have seen this last year, it's like a store is becoming more LE than permanent collection.

*what I'd like:*
- - - - - - - - -
- samples : I'd like some - more honest - system, where you can save up for samples.
- or maybe some kind of "gift with purchase" promotion, who can resist that. (and it might help us take in any raises in price)
- therapy for learning to cope with LE items. It's not the end of the world if we weren't able to get it, because they always have something better and brighter waiting around the corner._

 
what a healthy response = )


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## COBI (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Angelah* 

 
_As for the MAC Artists "freestyling" -- we really aren't supposed to take back eyeshadows without the pan in it. People try to use the metal pan as one piece of their 6 recycles and that's not fair. So those who are taking the plastic pots with no metal pans are not following company policy._

 
But on the flipside, you have people like me who spend hundreds of dollars every time I go in (freestanding store); and yes, I bring back pan-less pots because I depot all of my shadows.  I buy refills when I can, but LE isn't available in pan only.

So, why should I be punished while trying to recycle because I depot?  I was told that they don't even take individuals pans B2M.  Sounds like there might confusion about many B2M aspects because I've been told it can't be used for LE items, but others have noted here that they do receive LE items for their B2M.


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## Macnarsandlove (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *bartp* 

 
_*

what I admire (before this thread becomes to negative)
- - - - -  - -  -
- I admire the patience of MA's. They get bombarded by our questions and rumours. I don't think that there are any other shops where salespeople are confronted with the same kind of customer.
- I admire MAC's potential to re-invent items and colours. It seems like something is changing or shifting. With all the collections that we have seen this last year, it's like a store is becoming more LE than permanent collection.

I feel the same way. Please forgive me if it came off really negative. I just came from a CCO that had lightscape msf to shadows I know were sold out on the site. All I can think is there are so many ppl that want this stuff and would pay full price if the could just get it.  

what I'd like:
- - - - - - - -  -
- samples : I'd like some - more honest - system, where you can save up for samples.
- or maybe some kind of "gift with purchase" promotion, who can resist that. (and it might help us take in any raises in price)
- therapy for learning to cope with LE items. It's not the end of the world if we weren't able to get it, because they always have something better and brighter waiting around the corner.*_*
*
*
*
*
**


I feel the same way. Please forgive me if it came off really negative. I just came from a CCO that had lightscape msf to shadows I know were sold out on the site. All I can think is there are so many ppl that want this stuff and would pay full price if the could just get it.  

Definitely a better sample system that can be more sanitary and with better guidelines. Lets be honest this brand has transformed into a retail, "insert your fav dept store here", consumer NOT ma artist brand. I understand sticking to your roots but prepackaged samples would be great.

O GWP... I have read here overseas they have a GWP at some MAC counters. That would be a good way to stay competitive with lancome,clinique etc. But I think they know their customers (like me) will buy regardless. As opposed to an estee lauder customer that might go to clinique if the have some special.

Great responses ladies!!*


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## MAC_Whore (Nov 25, 2007)

I look at the GWP as a double-edged sword.  Sure, you are getting something up front, but they recoup that money elsewhere in increased prices.  If we don't care for the periodic .50 increases, it won't feel any better if they change it to a periodic .75 increase to cover GWP giveaways. 

As far as the  .50 increases, the reality is that they give away a lot of product to employees and industry, we are where they recoup that.  They offer a great benefit to pros with the pro card, we are where they recoup that.  That's business.

As far as stuff in CCOs, that doesn't bother me so much.  I see that as an added bonus.  Another chance to pick something up or get a back-up at a reduced price. 

I do dislike the inconsistancies in "rules" and info at different counters or amongst diff MAs at the same counters.  MAC isn't good at communicating sometimes, but then again, sometimes ee's don't take the time to learn.  Aside from that, there is an unbelievable amount of product that MAC pumps out now.  It really is a lot to take in. Even I, who has always had a freakish ability to retain MAC product knowledge, loose track of it now.

As much as LE can rub me wrong, it is also an opportunity for fresh products and new experiences.  So, again, give and take.  I guess it just depends on how you look at it.  Half empty-half full, you choose.


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## MiCHiE (Nov 25, 2007)

The only gripe I have with MAC is that they _charge_ for a PRO discount that could be free.


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## COBI (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *♥MiCHiE♥* 

 
_The only gripe I have with MAC is that they charge for a PRO discount that could be free._

 
I would love the best of both worlds: 40% off and no fee, but I would rather pay $35 a year and save 40% than pay nothing and get a smaller discount.  For me, it pays for itself in less than one visit.  Factoring in the fee versus what I spend/save, my discount annually still works out to over 38%.

Some of the other discounts that I receive for free are only 10% & 20% off.  Better than full retail, but my kit is primarily MAC, and I'd be lying if I didn't say the discount was part of the reason.  Of course, it doesn't hurt that MAC has always been my favorite line.  However, I would probably experiment with other lines more often if the discounts were greater.


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## MiCHiE (Nov 25, 2007)

That's why I said _could_ instead of _should_. And, MAC _could_ do both---give a good discount and do it for free. Other lines do it. I think all of our discounts pay for themselves, but if you're going to demand so much proof (of artistry) _and_ payment.....come on now. And, they didn't always charge for membership, which is why I bring it up.


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## Miss_M (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm in The Netherlands and one of the things that bother me about MAC is the fact that there is no B2M program in every European country. As far as I know only the U.K., Spain and Germany have a B2M program. 

Another thing that frustrates me is the fact that my counter (the only one in my city) doesn't restock LE items like in the U.S. If it's gone, it's gone. We can't order from their website either, so you constantly have to be on top of things so you don't miss out on collections, which can be very frustrating and stressful. If you wait a week after a collection has been released, the chances are that everything is already sold out, since MAC is still pretty exclusive and not widely available here.


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## purrtykitty (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *COBI* 

 
_Sounds like there might confusion about many B2M aspects because I've been told it can't be used for LE items, but others have noted here that they do receive LE items for their B2M.




_

 

I agree.  I've been told that by my MAC Counter, too and it was kinda frustrating.  Along the same lines...if MAC Stores allow B2M items to include shadows and lip glasses and not just lipsticks, then why not the counters, too?  That doesn't make too much sense to me.


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## Hilly (Nov 25, 2007)

I don't like it when I say MSF and the mac sa thinks im loony lol.


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## Babs (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Miss_M* 

 
_I'm in The Netherlands and one of the things that bother me about MAC is the fact that there is no B2M program in every European country. As far as I know only the U.K., Spain and Germany have a B2M program. 
_

 
There's also the B2M program in Italy.


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## knoxydoll (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hilly* 

 
_I don't like it when I say MSF and the mac sa thinks im loony lol._

 
That happened to me the other day. I said I was looking at getting one of the Natural MSFs and she looked at me and I said Mineral Skin Finish... and she's like ooooohhh I love them. She is blond and a little ditzy but she was really nice and helped me out a lot. She's one of my more favourite MAs.


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## foreveratorifan (Nov 25, 2007)

having worked for MAC and now work for Estee Lauder, TRUST me that you DO NOT want to have a GWP at MAC.  I feel personally, that GWP's diminishes a brand a bit.  Now, sampling is a bit different.

All I ever hear now is...are you in Gift?  When's the next gift?  ALL customers expect something FREE from Clinique, Lauder or Lancome.  Whereas brands like Bobbi Brown or MAC dont experience that.  

That's my biggest complaint moving from MAC to Estee Lauder.


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## gabi1129 (Nov 26, 2007)

i love just about everything, except 2 things. 1) that there isnt a Pro store here in Chicago! and 2) when i ask for a product by name and i get looked at funny. i mean if i came in the day the collection drop and u just got in u might not know. but if i come in 2-3 weeks later, hmmm. i work in retail and when we get new items itll take me like a day and ill know the product. thats why i always go to my MA Samantha!


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## bartp (Nov 26, 2007)

girls and guys,
if this thread doesn't get us all a job at MAC's marketing departement I don't know what will. I'm impressed by the thought that everyone is putting into this. waw


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## Love Always Ivy (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *gabi1129* 

 
_i love just about everything, except 2 things. 1) that there isnt a Pro store here in Chicago! and 2) when i ask for a product by name and i get looked at funny. i mean if i came in the day the collection drop and u just got in u might not know. but if i come in 2-3 weeks later, hmmm. i work in retail and when we get new items itll take me like a day and ill know the product. thats why i always go to my MA Samantha!_

 
i agree! you work at MAC. i KNOW you know about collections coming out before they come out. tell me why i went in  to pick up some paint pots when they came out with painterly and the MA looked at me like i made it all up. same thing happened when i went to ask about the lipsticks from mcqueen. c'mon. why do i know more about your product than you? give me your job please.


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## Krasevayadancer (Nov 27, 2007)

Pro card discounts aren't available when you go to a counter. 
Also, inconsistency in releasing collections across the board. For example, stylistics only being available at f/s and certain quads only being avail at counters.


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## COBI (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Krasevayadancer* 

 
_Pro card discounts aren't available when you go to a counter. 
Also, inconsistency in releasing collections across the board. For example, stylistics only being available at f/s and certain quads only being avail at counters._

 
I agree.  My closest counter is over an hour away, and the closest store is about 2 hours away from me.  Of course, with pro card, there is not much reason for me to go to the counter anymore.


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## SparklingWaves (Nov 27, 2007)

I want a PRO store in my area.


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## panther27 (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Krasevayadancer* 

 
_Pro card discounts aren't available when you go to a counter. 
Also, inconsistency in releasing collections across the board. For example, stylistics only being available at f/s and certain quads only being avail at counters._

 
Yeah that really bothers the hell out of me why restrict where certain things go?


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## Macnarsandlove (Nov 27, 2007)

I also miss the better brush sets. I remember I bought the brush sets that came out in 2002. I still have them and they look better than the ones i got last yr. The bag the brushes came in was functional with places for them so go in, had another side that u could fit a lot of makeup in. Too bad that MAC cheapened the brush set. But I guess in the other hand the have made 3 different sets and have more lip/eye palettes so I guess its a trade off.


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *panther27* 

 
_Yeah that really bothers the hell out of me why restrict where certain things go?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
I think that the "exclusivity" thats involved in pro/fs only collections is for 2 reasons:
1- MAC knows their customers-most ppl that just want a lipgloss or an eyeshadow is going to be confused in the cause of the stylistics and say y would i pay $20 for this when i could get one for $14. No difference to the regular person. 
2-See the "Roberto Cavalli for HM" thread. The fact that is exclusive to certain  locations makes it more of a frenzy when buying. Red no 5 lipstick from last yr was featured in several magazines and was sold out everywhere i went (5 locations) in different areas. The rest of the collection was well recieved I guess cause they did it again this year.


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## darkishstar (Nov 27, 2007)

Yeah, I adore MAC too, but there are a few little issues as well... D:

-Too many LE collections. Don't get me wrong, I adored the holiday sets, but a lot of the other collections I passed on. I'd like to see more colors added to the permanent line instead. And some of the colors released in LE are so pretty that yeah, some colors of each new collection I think should be made part of the permanent line. I think this would be a good idea.
-I think pre-packaged samples would be nice. Especially for foundations.
-Some inconsistency with collection releases. Sometimes there's an item missing from the display! It makes it really hard to request for that particular item. Sometimes the MA's will be confused.

And the one that bothers me the most:
-The return policy. Yes, it is nice to be able to return anything if it doesn't work for you or if you're allergic to it etc. But it annoys me when I see other people return things out of buyer's remorse or if they got a make-over done and don't want to shell out at least $40 for products in return. It needs to be reworked somehow. Because that's what drives up the MAC prices as well.


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## FacesbyNiki (Nov 27, 2007)

Whew!

Ok.. with that $35 fee for the Pro card you are not only getting discount on makeup but you are able to meet other artist and attend classes and special events. I look at the $35 as a fee for that. Yes, you have to pay $100 to attned a pro class but you get that back in product and you  can use you pro card also. Look at the other benefits of it. Like someone else said, the pro card pays for itself in one visit. 

As far as LE's stuff being at COO's, well, I feel that has alot to do with Estee Lauder, remember, MAC is a business, this is a business. They need to make money. 

And about you guys knowing more than the MAC artist, they aren't on spectra like we are. They only know what they are told at Updates or meetings, so please be kind to us when you do walk up to the counter talking about next years holiday collection in March. LOL


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## erine1881 (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *darkishstar* 

 
_-I'd like to see more colors added to the permanent line instead. And some of the colors released in LE are so pretty that yeah, some colors of each new collection I think should be made part of the permanent line.._

 
my counter is running out of room for the permanent stuff we already have. we would have no room whatsoever if we made some LE stuff permanent.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *darkishstar* 

 
_-I think pre-packaged samples would be nice. Especially for foundations._

 
mac has 9 different foundations, and a shit-ton of colors of each one. do you realize how many pre-packaged samples mac would have to make for foundations? then to make them for lipsticks, lipglass, etc.? that would cost too much. thats why we can make samples of liquids, powders and creams. its alot cheaper to make them on demand than to pre-package them for every product in every color.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *darkishstar* 

 
_And the one that bothers me the most:
-The return policy. Yes, it is nice to be able to return anything if it doesn't work for you or if you're allergic to it etc. But it annoys me when I see other people return things out of buyer's remorse or if they got a make-over done and don't want to shell out at least $40 for products in return. It needs to be reworked somehow. Because that's what drives up the MAC prices as well._

 
i agree with you on this one. it pisses me off when a customer gets their makeup done, buys the product, and returns it a few days later cause they wanted it done for free in the first place!

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *FacesbyNiki* 

 
_Whew!

Ok.. with that $35 fee for the Pro card you are not only getting discount on makeup but you are able to meet other artist and attend classes and special events. I look at the $35 as a fee for that. Yes, you have to pay $100 to attned a pro class but you get that back in product and you can use you pro card also. Look at the other benefits of it. Like someone else said, the pro card pays for itself in one visit._

 
thank you!


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## darkishstar (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *erine1881* 

 
_my counter is running out of room for the permanent stuff we already have. we would have no room whatsoever if we made some LE stuff permanent.



mac has 9 different foundations, and a shit-ton of colors of each one. do you realize how many pre-packaged samples mac would have to make for foundations? then to make them for lipsticks, lipglass, etc.? that would cost too much. thats why we can make samples of liquids, powders and creams. its alot cheaper to make them on demand than to pre-package them for every product in every color.



i agree with you on this one. it pisses me off when a customer gets their makeup done, buys the product, and returns it a few days later cause they wanted it done for free in the first place!
_

 
I guess then for me it would just be better to just have fewer LE collections then. I forgot that there needs to be room to put the permanent collection as well!

Yeah, it would cost too much, but I guess my issue with the samples then is how they're made from the ones on display? (Or maybe that's just from the freestanding store I go to?) I'm a germ freak, so I guess that's why I don't like why there's no pre-packaged ones. Maybe they should use a new one and set that one aside specifically for samples? I dunno, I guess it doesn't bother me too much, it's just a tiny issue after all. I still love MAC to death. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Thanks at least for opening my eyes up to some issues. I wouldn't know because I don't work at any MAC counters or stores.


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## wordgirl (Nov 29, 2007)

The only thing I'd add is that I wish they'd do something to improve the stability of the lipsticks.

I found a limited edition that I loved. I _almost_ bought two. Then I thought to myself _why bother? By the time you use the first one up the second will smell awful._ Maybe selling them in airtight packaging - like the mascaras - would help.


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## lah_knee (Dec 1, 2007)

people keep going on and on about how much they spend at mac. regardless if u spend 1000 bucks or 14, the rules apply equally. they tell us artists what to take and what not to accept for b2m. rules constantly change so sometimes theres confusion. but its not done on purpose. b2m is a generous program either way. ive never heard of a cosmetic brand that gives out full sized items of your choice for empty containers lol


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## COBI (Dec 1, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lah_knee* 

 
_people keep going on and on about how much they spend at mac. regardless if u spend 1000 bucks or 14, the rules apply equally. they tell us artists what to take and what not to accept for b2m. rules constantly change so sometimes theres confusion. but its not done on purpose. b2m is a generous program either way. ive never heard of a cosmetic brand that gives out full sized items of your choice for empty containers lol_

 
No doubt, it's a nice program.  However, IMHO, there is a difference between someone who spends a lot and someone who buys a single item here and there.  Someone who spends a lot of money also is typically a lot more profitable for the company than someone who buys an item every now and then; so, making a concession at times for a person who spends a lot of money is not unheard of, and it also generally a good practice.  

Companies typically give some leeway to managers in this regard because they realize that sometimes accommodating a profitable customer is part of the cost of doing business.

My opinion is based on a retail management background and the fact that it is the MAs at my FS that told me about depotting  (even adding that I should bring the empty pots back to the store for B2M versus a counter.)  Until I started going to the FS, I had a gazillion pots and no room. 

It is only here on specktra that I hear them accepting my pan-less pots is a no-no; and my store doesn't take pans, but it is only here that I hear that B2M does take pans.  So, if they are bending the rules for me, I am unaware of it and apparently so is this entire MAC FS that I go to.

I do believe manners & good service should be extended to everyone regardless of amounts spent, but I don't think it's right to say that people are wrong to have *reasonable* expectations if they do spend a lot.


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## ellemarie (Dec 1, 2007)

This is not a centralized problem with MAC as a company, just individual stores, but it seems like they always overbook appointments for events.  I'm sure there are many valid explanations for long wait times.  I would just assume someone in charge would see how long people have to wait and adjust as well as possible.  The MAs look like they're going nuts!


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## wolfsong (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lah_knee* 

 
_people keep going on and on about how much they spend at mac. regardless if u spend 1000 bucks or 14, the rules apply equally. they tell us artists what to take and what not to accept for b2m. rules constantly change so sometimes theres confusion. but its not done on purpose. b2m is a generous program either way. ive never heard of a cosmetic brand that gives out full sized items of your choice for empty containers lol_

 

I agree with this - people shouldnt be treated differently based on how much they spend. This goes for manners, time etc as well as B2M. MAC doesnt have rules there for people who spend X amount to bend/break - that would be a terrible, devious way of running a business ("You'll get treated like crap, and be a 2nd class citizen to us unless you SPEND SPEND SPEND!")

* Also if im not mistaken, the rules for what is accepted for B2M are there because certain items count as 1 purchase (e.g. holiday sets), and if pans can be given in without the plastic casing - and vice versa - then someone could have one eyeshadow pot count for 2 B2M items.


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## erine1881 (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ellemarie* 

 
_This is not a centralized problem with MAC as a company, just individual stores, but it seems like they always overbook appointments for events. I'm sure there are many valid explanations for long wait times. I would just assume someone in charge would see how long people have to wait and adjust as well as possible. The MAs look like they're going nuts!_

 
for events, we book 1 appt every 30 min (eyes, cheeks, lips only).  but then you have to factor in the people who booked 1 hr appts before the event was scheduled.  then there are those that show up late for their appt.  at my counter, if you are five minutes late for a 30 min appt (w/o a phone call letting us know you are running late), you loose your spot.  same with being 15 min late for a 1 hr.  if you are late, we put a walk-up in your spot.  there are always walk-ups when we are in an event.  it never fails.  if we can't fit them into a cancelled/lost appt, we do a standing walk-up makeup application while stepping away each time to help other customers.  so yes, at times not only do we look like we are going nuts, but we really are deep down inside.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  just kidding (not really!).


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## Beauty Mark (Dec 2, 2007)

Besides the numerous LE items and color stories, I'm kind of frustrated that B2M isn't better advertised. I don't think I would've known about it had I not joined Specktra. I know it's going to involve a loss of profits from MAC (perhaps not, because I'd probably buy something as well get my B2M), but I think recycling is so important.

This isn't to insult anyone here, because I know that there are fabulous people and not so fabulous people, but I noticed that I get much better service at the freestanding stores than a counter in a department store. I thought MAC was supposed to control both the freestanding and counters very closely.


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## lah_knee (Dec 2, 2007)

we are required to tell all customers about B2M at the close of every sale now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we do at my counter... thats the best way to spread the word. a lot of customers come in totally confused about the program... ie "hey i heard if i turn in 3 empty compacts i get one free!" hahaha

and like wolfsong said, its terrible business to allow people who spend a lot to get away with certain things just because they are more "profitable" than the average customer. people go on and on here about how they hate how some artists treat certain customers better than others because of how they look or if they are spending a lot. it shouldnt be that way.


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## lara (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ellemarie* 

 
_This is not a centralized problem with MAC as a company, just individual stores, but it seems like they always overbook appointments for events.  I'm sure there are many valid explanations for long wait times.  I would just assume someone in charge would see how long people have to wait and adjust as well as possible.  The MAs look like they're going nuts!_

 
This is more to do with people who show up for appointments late, or who go over the 30 minute limit by talking on the phone, chatting to the person next to them, using the MA as a confessional, insisting the artist try four or five different lips, push for an eyes/lips/cheeks quick make-over to turn into an hour full-face appointment, etc etc etc.

Make-up appointments are organised and timely, it's the human element that makes these things drag out. Until the day comes where we can say, 'lady, will you just freakin' _shut up_ for ten minutes so I can get you out of here on time!', appointments will always go over.


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## MelodyKat (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *gabi1129* 

 
_i love just about everything, except 2 things. 1) that there isnt a Pro store here in Chicago! and 2) when i ask for a product by name and i get looked at funny. i mean if i came in the day the collection drop and u just got in u might not know. but if i come in 2-3 weeks later, hmmm. i work in retail and when we get new items itll take me like a day and ill know the product. thats why i always go to my MA Samantha!_

 
Ok so here's the deal. Especially around this time. There are some people workin at counter who havent been there for at least a year. AND we got a lot of freelance help in the store. They are there to support with artistry so they might not know all the products. yea...i know kinda sucks but trust me we need the help. holidays are busy.

LOVE SAM! She is a sweetie.

And keep your eyes peeled for the store.


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## MelodyKat (Dec 2, 2007)

And about the samples. lol. So here's how I figure it. Yes you can get your makeup done anywhere but there is a certain expectation that goes with makeup at MAC....right? So here is what I do.....it doesnt matter if you spend $14 on a lipgloss or $200 on new stuff. It depends on the interaction. If someone sounds iffy about a foundation then i totally make them a sample. If someone asks about a certain product...ill make them a sample. But if you ask "Well I bought $xxx so i should get free stuff" well ill give you 1 sample. That make sense?

Let me explain. We get sample jars sent to the counter. But not that many. So as an artist explaining a product I would rather sample to someone who is trying to find that "right" product or wanting to try something new. They are genuinely wanting to know about the product. Then give someone a bunch of samples just because the feel they are owed them. So if someone comes in and wants samples of all the piggies we got i will give them 1. If someone comes in once a week for the same foundation sample EVERY WEEK i will not give them one. 

I hope that makes sense. Not trying to get anyone angry.....but I also dont like to get taken advantage of as an artist.


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## erine1881 (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lara* 

 
_This is more to do with people who show up for appointments late, or who go over the 30 minute limit by talking on the phone, chatting to the person next to them, using the MA as a confessional, insisting the artist try four or five different lips, push for an eyes/lips/cheeks quick make-over to turn into an hour full-face appointment, etc etc etc._

 
my point exactly!

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lara* 

 
_Make-up appointments are organised and timely, it's the human element that makes these things drag out. Until the day comes where we can say, 'lady, will you just freakin' shut up for ten minutes so I can get you out of here on time!', appointments will always go over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
can that day be tmrw pleeeeeease?!?!


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## chronic (Dec 2, 2007)

Lol, I read this a few times in this thread already but it irritates me when I ask for a product by name and the MA has no idea what I'm talking about. Or when I say MSF and they get confused. You'd think they'd use that themselves, instead of saying Mineral Skin Finish everytime.


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## COBI (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lah_knee* 

 
_and like wolfsong said, its terrible business to allow people who spend a lot to get away with certain things just because they are more "profitable" than the average customer. people go on and on here about how they hate how some artists treat certain customers better than others because of how they look or if they are spending a lot. it shouldnt be that way._

 
I guess this for me depends on what it is they are "getting away with".   I haven't seen personally anyone showing some egregious accommodations being made.  My personal example is pan-less pots.  When I read for the first time here on specktra that pan-less pots were a no-no, my immediate reaction was "for what I spend, I wouldn't want to be hassled about this."  ne reason being that the MAs had told me about depotting and then "bring those empties right back in" (I do put the plastic tray back in the pot.)  That being said, it was a defensive response, and it was not something I knew or asked the store to make concessions for me.  Perhaps they are bending the rules because I am a good customer, but they've never told me.  I can't imagine *asking* them to bend any rules.  In the "MAC FAQ: B2M", someone mentions that they sent depots without pans in to MAC by mail and received their B2M without issue.  So, there is still a question for me about what is right, but if my FS doesn't have a problem with my B2M as is, then neither do I.

I absolutely agree that no one should be treated like a lesser customer (unless, of course, they are rude and/or abusive towards staff or other customers); however, have you honestly never gone above and beyond for someone who comes in and buys often?  Would you have gone the same above and beyond for someone who had never come in before or who comes in and only evers wants samples?  From a purely business (not CS) POV, it is "terrible" business to expend the same energy on someone who comes in constantly and never buys when you have buying clients waiting.  

I have seen and heard customers spend over 30 minutes with an MA trying to find the right shade and everything was "too this" or "too that" only to walk out empty-handed mumbling to their friend "I would never spend that much on lipstick"; why spend all that time when one of their first questions was price so they knew exactly how much it was before they took the MAs time.  When this person comes in doing this every few weeks, don't you at some point change the service (i.e. not give them as much time)?  If not, I would argue that is terrible business because while you are giving energy/attention to a known non-buyer, there are customers who are coming in and possibly not buying because no one is available to help them.

Whether one realizes it or not, you can automatically provide better service when you know someone and their buying habits.  They come in, and you know immediately which new shades or products are going to interest them.  Why?  Because they spend a lot.  It has allowed you to understand their likes and dislikes.  It has allowed you to know what their skin and makeups problems and issues are.  You can follow-up on recent purchases, and you can build on them.  If someone doesn't buy much, you can not possibly provide this level of customized service; does that mean that you shouldn't for regulars?

It's kind of interesting because in other threads, MAs get mad/frustrated when people get their makeup done and don't buy anything.  Yet, here the majority would seem to imply that everyone should be treated the same whether they buy or not.

Perhaps some of the difference of opinions here is simply in interpretation of how each of us are defining "concessions" for customers.


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## darkishstar (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_Besides the numerous LE items and color stories, I'm kind of frustrated that B2M isn't better advertised. I don't think I would've known about it had I not joined Specktra. I know it's going to involve a loss of profits from MAC (perhaps not, because I'd probably buy something as well get my B2M), but I think recycling is so important._

 
I totally agree with the B2M program thing. After going to my MAC freestanding store for about... 5 times, I was finally told about the B2M program. This doesn't really irritate me, but I think if recycling is really important, it should be advertised more. And I don't think it's much a loss of profit if the old containers are being recycled so that more products can be made and sold, rather than using new material to make new packaging every time.

EDIT: Thanks to erine1881: the old containers are recycled to be made into other things not make-up packaging.


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## darkishstar (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lara* 

 
_This is more to do with people who show up for appointments late, or who go over the 30 minute limit by talking on the phone, chatting to the person next to them, using the MA as a confessional, insisting the artist try four or five different lips, push for an eyes/lips/cheeks quick make-over to turn into an hour full-face appointment, etc etc etc.

Make-up appointments are organised and timely, it's the human element that makes these things drag out. Until the day comes where we can say, 'lady, will you just freakin' shut up for ten minutes so I can get you out of here on time!', appointments will always go over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
This is very true because I've seen this happen when I went in for Prom make-up this year in June. I just want to add a little to your response.

I think it's often the customer that does slow down appointments, but I  also think sometimes it has to do with the MUA's perfectionist tendencies? When I went in, I expected to be done in half an hour, but for some reason my skin was acting up and making it difficult for make-up application.. so the MUA redid my eye about.. 3 times, so she took almost an hour on me because she kept insisting it didn't look nice though I didn't see what the problem was at all. I didn't blame her though (because I guess Asian eyes might be difficult to do make-up on? And my lids were really dry for some reason too...) she did an awesome job, so I was really happy to purchase my products from her and be on my way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I think oftentimes unexpected issues like this arise as well that can slow down the appointments as well.


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## wolfsong (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *COBI* 

 
_I guess this for me depends on what it is they are "getting away with".   I haven't seen personally anyone showing some egregious accommodations being made.  My personal example is pan-less pots.  When I read for the first time here on specktra that pan-less pots were a no-no, my immediate reaction was "for what I spend, I wouldn't want to be hassled about this."  ne reason being that the MAs had told me about depotting and then "bring those empties right back in" (I do put the plastic tray back in the pot.)  That being said, it was a defensive response, and it was not something I knew or asked the store to make concessions for me.  Perhaps they are bending the rules because I am a good customer, but they've never told me.  I can't imagine *asking* them to bend any rules.  In the "MAC FAQ: B2M", someone mentions that they sent depots without pans in to MAC by mail and received their B2M without issue.  So, there is still a question for me about what is right, but if my FS doesn't have a problem with my B2M as is, then neither do I.

I absolutely agree that no one should be treated like a lesser customer (unless, of course, they are rude and/or abusive towards staff or other customers); however, have you honestly never gone above and beyond for someone who comes in and buys often?  Would you have gone the same above and beyond for someone who had never come in before or who comes in and only evers wants samples?  From a purely business (not CS) POV, it is "terrible" business to expend the same energy on someone who comes in constantly and never buys when you have buying clients waiting.  

I have seen and heard customers spend over 30 minutes with an MA trying to find the right shade and everything was "too this" or "too that" only to walk out empty-handed mumbling to their friend "I would never spend that much on lipstick"; why spend all that time when one of their first questions was price so they knew exactly how much it was before they took the MAs time.  When this person comes in doing this every few weeks, don't you at some point change the service (i.e. not give them as much time)?  If not, I would argue that is terrible business because while you are giving energy/attention to a known non-buyer, there are customers who are coming in and possibly not buying because no one is available to help them.

Whether one realizes it or not, you can automatically provide better service when you know someone and their buying habits.  They come in, and you know immediately which new shades or products are going to interest them.  Why?  Because they spend a lot.  It has allowed you to understand their likes and dislikes.  It has allowed you to know what their skin and makeups problems and issues are.  You can follow-up on recent purchases, and you can build on them.  If someone doesn't buy much, you can not possibly provide this level of customized service; does that mean that you shouldn't for regulars?

It's kind of interesting because in other threads, MAs get mad/frustrated when people get their makeup done and don't buy anything.  Yet, here the majority would seem to imply that everyone should be treated the same whether they buy or not.

Perhaps some of the difference of opinions here is simply in interpretation of how each of us are defining "concessions" for customers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
I see where you are getting at about the 'bad non-customer' dealio, admittedly i didnt think about these types of non-customers (ie those that are well known for NEVER buying but taking samples, stealing testers/products and wasting time when they either dont buy or buy and take back for refunds once used for a bit) when i wrote that. 

I was referring to better treatment for those that spend a lot compared to those that come in for one or two items at a time - just because someone may not be able to afford big hauls, or may have a reason why they dont want to spend X amount on makeup, doesnt mean they do not deserve the same treatment as those that make big purchases. To me giving 'special treatment' to those that spend is a trait of a bad MA - and im not talking about the fact that their MA may have more knowledge of a customer because of these hauls, as that doesnt come into the B2M or manners issue (and customer time may be shortened by the MA knowing them, but it could also be the same as a new customer because of showing/explaining products/collections that they think they'll like - as you rightly stated).

How does the MA know that a person is new to MAC and just finding their feet/developing their makeup collection slowly to begin with to see how they like the brand, or that they will only be the type of customer that buys little product? They dont. And even if the latter was the case, is it right for them to hold it against that customer/ treat them differently because of it? Certainly not IMO.


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## Beauty Mark (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:

  Let me explain. We get sample jars sent to the counter. But not that many. So as an artist explaining a product I would rather sample to someone who is trying to find that "right" product or wanting to try something new. They are genuinely wanting to know about the product. Then give someone a bunch of samples just because the feel they are owed them. So if someone comes in and wants samples of all the piggies we got i will give them 1. If someone comes in once a week for the same foundation sample EVERY WEEK i will not give them one.  
 
I think MAC would benefit from a program like Sephora set up where you get so many "points" for spending so much money and then you get exclusive samples.


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## erine1881 (Dec 3, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *darkishstar* 

 
_I totally agree with the B2M program thing. After going to my MAC freestanding store for about... 5 times, I was finally told about the B2M program. This doesn't really irritate me, but I think if recycling is really important, it should be advertised more. And I don't think it's much a loss of profit if the old containers are being recycled so that more products can be made and sold, rather than using new material to make new packaging every time._

 
when mac recycles the B2M, they don't use the stuff to make new makeup packaging.  they recycle it to make park benches, staplers, etc.


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## alien21xx (Dec 3, 2007)

My one frustration: 
I have quite often been ignored at MAC counters and FS where I live, even when there are no customers and the MA's aren't really doing anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's more of a problem with where I am, I guess. I just find that the customer service of the MAs in my area really leaves a lot to be desired (i.e., apart from ignoring me, they always give me bored stares when I ask questions about products.) Most of the time, I just test the product on the back of my hand, clean up (myself and the product I tested), buy and be off because I find the MAs here quite off-putting. I guess it's because most of them know me? I'm at a MAC counter/FS almost every week and sometimes I get the feeling that MAs look at me and think "Oh it's her again, that crazy lady who buys half the store every time she's here; she doesn't need any help from me."

BUT I don't think this is caused at all by MAC. It's probably more a cultural thing here because I don't get this treatment when I go to MAC stores in other countries. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I've learned to just accept this and still try to be nice to the MAs, especially for those enthusiastic ones that I encounter. They really make my shopping experience wonderful.


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## VeronikaJ (Dec 5, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *♥MiCHiE♥* 

 
_The only gripe I have with MAC is that they charge for a PRO discount that could be free._

 
It's just like a Costco membership.  You can't expect such great prices (meaning a 30-40% discount) without some sort of fee. And it's $35 annually, it more than makes up for itself within one stop at the store.


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## MiCHiE (Dec 5, 2007)

Well, just like Niki pointed out, the classes alone are worth it. I had so mush fun at a Nordstrom event in TX. But, New Orleans didn't even have a freestanding store until 2006. I don't know what kind of classes or promos were/are held at the counters here, if any.


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## jessicalovesmac (Dec 16, 2007)

I need more pro pans and they're sold out. They're also sold out of a bunch of basics like bare study paint pot. I waited on hold for 20 minutes to find out that most of what I wanted was unavailable. WTH?


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## jessicalovesmac (Dec 16, 2007)

Sorry I posted the same thing twice by mistake. Edited to reflect.


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## MACGoddess (Dec 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *purrtykitty* 

 
_I agree.  I've been told that by my MAC Counter, too and it was kinda frustrating.  Along the same lines...if MAC Stores allow B2M items to include shadows and lip glasses and not just lipsticks, then why not the counters, too?  That doesn't make too much sense to me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
It isn't just whimsy that lets you claim other things than a l/s for your b2m's at a store, you must have a MAC Addict profile in the computer system with your name, address and e-mail in it.  If you have none of those or do not wish to enter into the system, you do not make the expanded program available to you.  You still would get only a l/s at a store...


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## MACGoddess (Dec 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Love Always Ivy* 

 
_i agree! you work at MAC. i KNOW you know about collections coming out before they come out. tell me why i went in  to pick up some paint pots when they came out with painterly and the MA looked at me like i made it all up. same thing happened when i went to ask about the lipsticks from mcqueen. c'mon. why do i know more about your product than you? give me your job please._

 
You have to remember, while everyone at MAC is an artist and we do love to play with new things, not always do we remember the 45 different names of product that will be coming out in the next 3 months when we go to update...  You may also be encountering a freelance artist working there for the day and they will have no idea what you may be talking about since they did not go to MAC Updates, or even a newly hired artist or one having a brain fart at the moment.  

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *panther27* 

 
_Yeah that really bothers the hell out of me why restrict where certain things go?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
While you and 15 other people in your area might want a certain collection to come to your counter, there may be no other person in the area that will respond to it, you know?  Think McQueen, SUPER bright shadows and paint pots along with lips and face products; it was a very fashion forward collection, very backstage trendy...a small town with only one MAC counter won't really be the place to release that collection.  People may be overwhelmed by it bc it is so intense and the launch would suffer bc of it.  They try to launch products where they will be most fitting bc it is a business, it costs them a lot of $$ to ship these products but also they lose more $$ if they sit in the drawers for 6 mos only to be sent to a CCO.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *darkishstar* 

 
_I guess then for me it would just be better to just have fewer LE collections then. I forgot that there needs to be room to put the permanent collection as well!

Yeah, it would cost too much, but I guess my issue with the samples then is how they're made from the ones on display? (Or maybe that's just from the freestanding store I go to?) I'm a germ freak, so I guess that's why I don't like why there's no pre-packaged ones. Maybe they should use a new one and set that one aside specifically for samples? I dunno, I guess it doesn't bother me too much, it's just a tiny issue after all. I still love MAC to death. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Thanks at least for opening my eyes up to some issues. I wouldn't know because I don't work at any MAC counters or stores. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
At MAC we are very germ conscious and that is the whole reason why we are constantly asking if you need help, or we have all these tester wands and brushes etc.  We have been trained on how to correctly sanitize and use products to keep them clean and everyone else safe from bacteria and germs.  I would not be nervous to use a product at the counter or to accept a sample from said product if I were you.  I often use the products if I need to touch up during a break or put my makeup on before my shift etc, without a problem and for almost 2 yrs.  Besides, you would probably let us color match you with that same foundation so what is the big deal with taking a sample of it, both ways it ends up on your face anyway...  ;-)

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *chronic* 

 
_Lol, I read this a few times in this thread already but it irritates me when I ask for a product by name and the MA has no idea what I'm talking about. Or when I say MSF and they get confused. You'd think they'd use that themselves, instead of saying Mineral Skin Finish everytime._

 
If we used the shortened form of MSF all the time, then customers not familiar with the product would have no idea what we were talking about.  It makes more sense to just say Mineralize Skinfinish bc not only is that the product name, but it allows us to explain the product better to someone who is unfamiliar with it.  If someone was trying to tell me about something that was new to me and used a bunch of letters instead of the name of the product I would feel a little confused and might not really get what they were talking about...  Did that make sense?


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## purrtykitty (Dec 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACGoddess* 

 
_It isn't just whimsy that lets you claim other things than a l/s for your b2m's at a store, you must have a MAC Addict profile in the computer system with your name, address and e-mail in it. If you have none of those or do not wish to enter into the system, you do not make the expanded program available to you. You still would get only a l/s at a store..._

 
That may be true in your store, but I was able to get a lipglass and eyeshadow along with a lipstick for B2M in the KC MAC store and I'm not in the computer system because there is no MAC store where I live, only a counter.


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## MACGoddess (Dec 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *purrtykitty* 

 
_That may be true in your store, but I was able to get a lipglass and eyeshadow along with a lipstick for B2M in the KC MAC store and I'm not in the computer system because there is no MAC store where I live, only a counter._

 
It is true regardless of what store it is or where...  They more than likely entered you into the computer system when you checked out at the KC MAC Store that you visited.  If they did not, then they violated policy and actually can get in quite a bit of trouble.  

There is no rule saying that if you are B2Ming and you don't have a profile in the computer when you go to check out, that we can't ADD you to the computer system and then apply your B2M in accordance with company policy.


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## purrtykitty (Dec 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACGoddess* 

 
_It is true regardless of what store it is or where... They more than likely entered you into the computer system when you checked out at the KC MAC Store that you visited. If they did not, then they violated policy and actually can get in quite a bit of trouble. 

There is no rule saying that if you are B2Ming and you don't have a profile in the computer when you go to check out, that we can't ADD you to the computer system and then apply your B2M in accordance with company policy._

 
Hmm, maybe that's what they did.  I only gave them my name and then I told them that there was no store in MAC, so they didn't ask for any address or e-mail info.  I guess they only needed my name.


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## MACGoddess (Dec 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *purrtykitty* 

 
_Hmm, maybe that's what they did.  I only gave them my name and then I told them that there was no store in MAC, so they didn't ask for any address or e-mail info.  I guess they only needed my name._

 
If you gave them no other info besides your name and they gave you the expanded stuff then they went against the rules.  

That is the whole point of the expansion thing at the stores is to build up the computer system so that we have a customer base to contact for special events and exclusive parties.  The computer is where they get the list of people we send the random invites to.


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## corngrl2 (Dec 21, 2007)

I was told at my local MAC counter that "specktra" was a "naughty" website.  The MA seemed annoyed that I knew more about upcoming collections than she did.  I spend a lot of money at that counter and I told her that if it wasn't for Specktra, i wouldn't spend a fraction of what i currently do.  Also, I asked about samples (as i was dropping a good amount of dough on MAC) and was told that they don't give samples.  I so love MAC but I have come to dread going to that counter :-(


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## MACGoddess (Dec 21, 2007)

That actually sounds a little mean of her...  I admit I definitely get frustrated with sites sometimes bc they spill the beans before even I get to go to update to learn about it myself, it can be frustrating.  Too when people come in to ask about something in the summertime NOW and we haven't gone to update we feel like idiots when there is no reason why we should.

She should have made you samples IMO...  I will make samples of things for you, but if it is a color product like a pigment etc.  I will make you enough to try it a couple of times, I won't stuff the jar with pigment, that is not a sample IMO.


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## purrtykitty (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *corngrl2* 

 
_I was told at my local MAC counter that "specktra" was a "naughty" website. The MA seemed annoyed that I knew more about upcoming collections than she did. I spend a lot of money at that counter and I told her that if it wasn't for Specktra, i wouldn't spend a fraction of what i currently do. Also, I asked about samples (as i was dropping a good amount of dough on MAC) and was told that they don't give samples. I so love MAC but I have come to dread going to that counter :-(_

 
Wow, that's too bad!!  The MA I was talking with the other day seemed impressed that I knew what was coming out.  She asked how and I told her about Specktra.  I see why MAs want to be the person people come to for help, but there's nothing wrong with a knowledgable customer.  I would think she'd be happy to get that commission.


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## janelovesyou (Dec 21, 2007)

I have a question. Have any of you guy's counters or stores taken away the q-tips and hid the disposable lip brushes behind the stands?

In Atlanta, that's how it is and it really frustrates me b/c I have to track a MA down to use one of their brushes and while a few of them are really accommodating, some act like they don't want you to use there brush and you're bothering them. I just want the q-tips back!


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## courters (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *janelovesyou* 

 
_I have a question. Have any of you guy's counters or stores taken away the g-tips and hid the disposable lip brushes behind the stands?

In Atlanta, that's how it is and it really frustrates me b/c I have to track a MA down to use one of their brushes and while a few of them are really accommodating, some act like they don't want you to use there brush and you're bothering them. I just want the q-tips back!_

 
I always have to hunt for the q-tips, but I usually have my husband with me, so we divide and conquer.  I was looking for the Slimshines after they came out and they were actually hidden behind the lipstick display!  But truthfully, they didn't have a special stand for them or anything so I bet there was nowhere to put them.


----------



## erine1881 (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *janelovesyou* 

 
_I have a question. Have any of you guy's counters or stores taken away the g-tips and hid the disposable lip brushes behind the stands?

In Atlanta, that's how it is and it really frustrates me b/c I have to track a MA down to use one of their brushes and while a few of them are really accommodating, some act like they don't want you to use there brush and you're bothering them. I just want the q-tips back!_

 
we have qtips out in front for people to swatch.  the lip brushes, however, are behind displays.  customers take the lacquer wands (brush) and swatch on their hands, and they shouldn't be used for that.  since they are more expensive than the doe foots (sponge), it takes longer to get them in stock when we run out.  tho doe foot testers suck for applying color to the lips, we use them to swatch lipgloss on the hand.  then if a customer wants to try it on their lips, we give them a lacquer wand.


----------



## cherrycola (Dec 22, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *alien21xx* 

 
_My one frustration: 
I have quite often been ignored at MAC counters and FS where I live, even when there are no customers and the MA's aren't really doing anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's more of a problem with where I am, I guess. I just find that the customer service of the MAs in my area really leaves a lot to be desired (i.e., apart from ignoring me, they always give me bored stares when I ask questions about products.) Most of the time, I just test the product on the back of my hand, clean up (myself and the product I tested), buy and be off because I find the MAs here quite off-putting. I guess it's because most of them know me? I'm at a MAC counter/FS almost every week and sometimes I get the feeling that MAs look at me and think "Oh it's her again, that crazy lady who buys half the store every time she's here; she doesn't need any help from me."

BUT I don't think this is caused at all by MAC. It's probably more a cultural thing here because I don't get this treatment when I go to MAC stores in other countries. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I've learned to just accept this and still try to be nice to the MAs, especially for those enthusiastic ones that I encounter. They really make my shopping experience wonderful._

 
I am so with you on this one. I had a favourite MA at one of the counters - Tangs Orchard - because she was always so helpful and lovely, especially the one time I'd had a brow emergency... but then she moved on to Clinique


----------



## MACGoddess (Dec 29, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *janelovesyou* 

 
_I have a question. Have any of you guy's counters or stores taken away the q-tips and hid the disposable lip brushes behind the stands?

In Atlanta, that's how it is and it really frustrates me b/c I have to track a MA down to use one of their brushes and while a few of them are really accommodating, some act like they don't want you to use there brush and you're bothering them. I just want the q-tips back!_

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *courters* 

 
_I always have to hunt for the q-tips, but I usually have my husband with me, so we divide and conquer.  I was looking for the Slimshines after they came out and they were actually hidden behind the lipstick display!  But truthfully, they didn't have a special stand for them or anything so I bet there was nowhere to put them._

 
We are not "hiding them" from you, believe it or not...  That way the counter stays cleaner, and you ask for help when using products.  We can oversee proper sanitizing that way and be able to fully answer questions.  When I am asked for eyeliners I will pull them out, tell you the difference between them if you don't know and help you play and pick.  That is part of my fun at work!!  

Also, we can't keep everything on counter all the time, we would have a thousand beakers everywhere...hence older product like Slimshines we put behind displayers to keep counters clear and clean.  Again, ask us!!

About the brushes, I will never ever hand a brush to a customer and walk away, I would rather help you out with the product or find someone who will.  The brushes we have at work we are responsible for, probably why the MAs don't want to just hand someone a brush.  We have the q tips out for you to narrow down colors etc, and the brushes are for our professional use to assist you...

Hope that helped!


----------



## blueyesdancing (Dec 29, 2007)

Besides the above reasons for keeping some products behind displayers, here is another reason that I encountered just last week.....PARENTS who let their kids run WILD.....we had a group of 3 or 4 very 'needy' ladies who were shopping together and letting their crazy kids have the run of the counter...I look around as 2 kids come flying by me and chase each other in circles around the cashwrap....and one of the kids has a QTIP stuck straight out of each ear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The mom is acting like nothing is going on; finally I said "Excuse me, but if she falls with those in her ears I do not want to be liable so please do something about that".

ARGGGGGGGGGG.

Beakers are breakable and there are too many stupid parents out there who do not take good enough care of their kids.  Kids playing in eye shadow or lipstick is bad enough but when breakable items are within reach it is much more of a hazard.


----------



## Chikky (Mar 11, 2008)

I know this is older, but I felt I needed one addition:

 Quote:

  I think that the "exclusivity" thats involved in pro/fs only collections is for 2 reasons:
1- MAC knows their customers-most ppl that just want a lipgloss or an eyeshadow is going to be confused in the cause of the stylistics and say y would i pay $20 for this when i could get one for $14. No difference to the regular person. 
2-See the "Roberto Cavalli for HM" thread. The fact that is exclusive to certain locations makes it more of a frenzy when buying. Red no 5 lipstick from last yr was featured in several magazines and was sold out everywhere i went (5 locations) in different areas. The rest of the collection was well recieved I guess cause they did it again this year.  
 
I get that, really... But it sucks that I only have a counter near me, and it's still at least a half hour away and doesn't get as much stuff... The closest actual STORE? With a Pro card (which I had NO idea about until now) is at least TWO hours from me. 

I don't feel it's fair to punish those who live so far away from actual stores. I would gladly pay for the card and for more product if given the chance. Now I just feel jipped and unhappy.


----------



## Kalico (Mar 11, 2008)

I agree with the posts about MA's not knowing their product. If you don't know something, why are you making it all up? I had an MA tell me the Fafi quad 1 (I think.. the one with pink venus) was made up of entirely LE shadows. I didn't ask, she just tried to sell me on it. But I knew it was BS.

I went to a different MAC counter yesterday looking for any N collection products left over. Yesterday!! They did have some, but when I asked for Neutral Pink she said, "Yes, we have one!" and handed me Frisco. I realized when I got home (didn't notice it was Frisco and not Neutral Pink) that she probably thought I meant a neutral pink, not THE neutral pink. It's not a new collection... and I thought neutral pink was a fairly popular e/s...?

The MA's in my city are very pushy and all around seem to know little about the product. Those were just two examples. They seem to make it up as they go along.


----------



## panther27 (Mar 11, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Chikky* 

 
_I know this is older, but I felt I needed one addition:



I get that, really... But it sucks that I only have a counter near me, and it's still at least a half hour away and doesn't get as much stuff... The closest actual STORE? With a Pro card (which I had NO idea about until now) is at least TWO hours from me. 

I don't feel it's fair to punish those who live so far away from actual stores. I would gladly pay for the card and for more product if given the chance. Now I just feel jipped and unhappy._

 
I totally agree


----------



## kokometro (Mar 11, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *panther27* 

 
_I totally agree_

 
You could use the Mac pro website with your pro card.


----------



## MACMama (Mar 11, 2008)

One of the reasons why MAC doesn't do GWP is because custies will spend $$ for the GWP and just return it the next day and keep the free gift. It's happening a lot when they charge the $50 min purchase for applications, people just return it all and they got their free makeover. Sad how low people will stoop.


----------



## MiCHiE (Mar 11, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *kokometro* 

 
_You could use the Mac pro website with your pro card. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
But, if you've never seen the product, you're hesitant to buy it online.


----------



## Chikky (Mar 11, 2008)

This is gonna be a dumb question... But how can I get to the MAC Pro website? *hides*


----------



## MiCHiE (Mar 11, 2008)

macpro.com


----------



## ritchieramone (Mar 11, 2008)

Just go here!


----------



## Chikky (Mar 11, 2008)

Much love, chickies. 

*drools*

EDIT - And I just really looked to see where the nearest PRO store is to me. Almost 200 miles away!! *faints* About 189, I think. Man, that stinks.


----------



## lipstik (Apr 8, 2008)

It's no big deal but I do miss way back when the PPID card was free and you got the 40% discount for being a SAG member.


----------



## mizzbeba (Apr 8, 2008)

One  of MY biggest frustrations is when I'm excited about a color and look at it on the mac website and fall in loooove with it but then go see it in person only to find out it's a totally different color.  The colors on the site are usually 99.9999 % of the time way off from the actual color.


----------



## CaitlinRH7 (Apr 8, 2008)

Also consider that partner locations (counters)....(for example: Dillard's....is in contract with MAC....contract stipulations are: DILLARD'S buys stock from MAC to sell....so Dillard's makes a profit off it for making it readily available to their local buying market)  Dillard's doesn't have the same stock inventory as say...a Saks Fifth Avenue...or Belk...or Macy's...or whatever department store they choose to partner with. 

Unfortunately for these red-headed step children... Nordstrom was the _first_  department store to feature MAC Cosmetics as not only a brand, but a *face of the future*, and the on-top-of-trend makeup line. So Nordstrom gets exclusives for being the ever-so-faithful name that always believed in MAC's promise and premise. I don't blame MAC for giving Nordstrom those exclusives. They were the first company to give MAC access to the *public*...alongside Clinique, Lancome, Estee Lauder, Shiseido, Borghese, Bobbi Brown, etc.... whatever cosmetic lines inhabit department stores. All of which STILL don't compare to MAC... in my eyes. And I know I'm not the only firm believer that MAC is still number one. 



PS - The ONLY way MAC will ever bring limited items back permanent is IF YOU TELL THEM! 

Contact customer service and tell them you want it permanent...and it will happen. It happened with MSF...and if you like something enough...and it gets heard by the right people.... it will happen. 

Why do you think they come out with "collections"? To test what people like...to see how it sells and how people respond to it!!!!!  Be heard. MAC LOVES FEEDBACK!!! Positive OR negative!!!! 



:::::removing myself from my soapbox:::: 













 XOXOXOXOX


----------



## CaitlinRH7 (Apr 8, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *mizzbeba* 

 
_One  of MY biggest frustrations is when I'm excited about a color and look at it on the mac website and fall in loooove with it but then go see it in person only to find out it's a totally different color.  The colors on the site are usually 99.9999 % of the time way off from the actual color. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The way the colors look on your SCREEN is usually your contrast/brightness level on your monitor. 

The way a picture looks on my screen looks totally different on yours, because levels vary with each monitor. 

You can't shoot the messenger!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Colors look different regardless of what computer you see them from. Textures vary...the amount of glitter.... the matteness...the opacity. Makeup is just hard to buy when you can't see it in person. You wouldn't expect to be able to match CoverGirl to your face judging by a gross plastic swatch right in front of your face right? Same concept to me. I can't possibly find the right color unless I see it on skin. Maybe its just me?


----------



## rbella (Jun 20, 2008)

*MAC Frustrations*

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I just thought I'd give my 2 cents.  I would be super pissed if I was a MAC MA.  I have gone to 3 different stores searching for anyone who can give me information on Sonic Chic and Electrodazzle.  Everyone in every store looked at me as if I was speaking a foreign language and told me there was no such thing.  If it is true that these are being released in July, shouldn't someone in the upper headquarters of MAC inform their employees?  It doesn't make sense.

One of the things I rely on in an MA is his/her ability to give me the scoop on what is coming up, select products that work well for me and hold things for me that I will like.  My Chanel MA always calls me way in advance of new launches, he sets aside products for me that he knows I'll like so I don't lose out on them and tells me what products from new upcoming collections I won't need so I don't waste my time on them.  In a way, he helps me budget.  

If it weren't for Specktra, I honestly think I would have just given up on MAC by now.  I think the lack of info given to the employees is unfair to them and to me.  

Just a rant...Sorry.


----------



## Hilly (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

I agree. Specktra is AWESOME for always unveiling the goods. Which MAC stores do you go to? I always tell my one MUA about the upcoming questions....kinda funny but also interesting..


----------



## aimee (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

the MA's here just know the next 2 launches not future ones


----------



## rbella (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hilly* 

 
_I agree. Specktra is AWESOME for always unveiling the goods. Which MAC stores do you go to? I always tell my one MUA about the upcoming questions....kinda funny but also interesting.._

 

I go to the freestanding one in the Galleria, at Nordies in the Galleria and at the freestanding one in West U.  I haven't become all that close with any particular MAC MA yet because of this.  I guess if I did I would inform them, but I feel bad for them.  I feel like they are pissed when I bring it up, I know I'd be pissed.  I know they aren't pissed at me, just the situation....


----------



## Hilly (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

You should check out the Rice Village store. They are pretty cool there. There is a macy's counter in Clear Lake I go to if I need to get something or for a launch, but the customer service is much better at R.V.


----------



## user46 (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

I agree. I hate knowing more than the MA, lol. It makes me look obsessed.


----------



## purrtykitty (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

It's probably because they haven't been to update yet which is in early July and these collections are being released shortly after that.  What would piss me off is if they were clueless even after being to update.  In general, though, because of Specktra, I'm more in the loop than my MA's are.


----------



## GlossyAbby (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Its crazy I know more about the collections than the ma's do at the counter I frequent..it makes me seem crazy obsessed....... On vacation I visited the Kansas City Mac store and the MA I saw there knew all about  the future ones. We chatted forever and she told me to come work for mac... I wish....see ya boring office job


----------



## rbella (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *GlossyAbby* 

 
_Its crazy I know more about the collections than the ma's do at the counter I frequent..it makes me seem crazy obsessed....... On vacation I visited the Kansas City Mac store and the MA I saw there knew all about  the future ones. We chatted forever and she told me to come work for mac... I wish....see ya boring office job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
OMG!! That's how I feel.  I feel like they think I'm some freak that is so obsessed with MAC....Which I am!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Today I went to Nordie's MAC counter and met an MA named Kyla.  I loved her.  She will be my go to from now on.  She was so sweet, gave me samples and about 6 of the colour forms brochures!!  How nice is that????????  I told her about Specktra.  I hope she joins.  She is so pretty that I wanted to punch her just so she would have a flaw. J/K.


----------



## Mizz.Yasmine (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Who is the one(s) that gets all the 411 here anyways? Do we have like a secret MAC spy or something?lol


----------



## lmc11 (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

The future collections/products are leaked onto specktra before MA even know, that is why sometimes they do not have information.


----------



## rbella (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lmc11* 

 
_The future collections/products are leaked onto specktra before MA even know, that is why sometimes they do not have information._

 
Well that is pretty well understood.  But, wouldn't it seem that it makes sense that MAC is very well aware that this information is being "leaked".  I mean if these launches were really all that secretive, then MAC would have put an end to "leaking the information" a long, long time ago.  I would just think that if you are going to release info, update your employees.  It is only fair to them.


----------



## jenjunsan (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

I agree.  The MAC MA's at the Baton Rouge store in Mall of Louisiana are very lacking in what I would expect.  Most of the time I know more about the products than them and 9 out of 10 times they can't answer my questions when there's something I don't know.  I do better getting answers here.  On top of that on more than one occassion I have called and asked if they had something (an LE) in stock and they said yes so my mother who lives near there went to pick it up to find that they DIDN'T have it.  2 weeks ago I was making the trip to see my mother and called to see if they still had any Gold Spill MSFs (since I have come to love mine and wanted a backup or 2), they tell me to hold, come back and say "No, sorry."  Had some extra time while I was there, so I decide to stop in and pick up a few staples.  Low and behold what is sitting right there...GOLD SPILL!  I'm glad I stopped in on a whim, but the customer service there has been very lacking.

EDITED TO ADD: I am VERY pleased with the customer service I have received from MAC Pro and maccosmetics.com.


----------



## k.a.t (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Mizz.Yasmine* 

 
_Who is the one(s) that gets all the 411 here anyways? Do we have like a secret MAC spy or something?lol_

 
LOL that's what i'm thinking...


----------



## MacArtist (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Just my two cents..

I work for MAC and we learn about new launches at our updates. This one is scheduled for early July so how would we know about what is coming up before we've been? Info is being leaked here (not that I mind, I like to see what's coming up too). So, in closing, please don't blame your local MA's if they don't know whats coming up...we just haven't seen the new launches yet!  Yeah, and after it launches, if the MA's can't tell you about the products then that's not a good thing lol !!!


----------



## lazytolove (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

I agree with you. Last time MAC Dress Camp came out and i did not know it only sale on MAC's website. So i came into the store and asked a MA "How come Dress Camp collection is not here yet?" She looked at me like i'm a crazy bastard and said, "Sorry, i don't know what you're talking about."

Shame on those kind of MAs! Maybe somebody else deserve to work at MAC more than them. At least, me...just a MAC customer and i do know about MAC informations more than them.


----------



## cocodivatime (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hilly* 

 
_You should check out the Rice Village store. They are pretty cool there. There is a macy's counter in Clear Lake I go to if I need to get something or for a launch, but the customer service is much better at R.V._

 

I like that store too. But I've found Nordstrom to be the worst.  If you go to the Galleria during the week the SA's are much more helpful ans attentive.  On the weekend--no chance


----------



## Meryl (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

My MAs are very knowledgeable about current launches... that's all I can ask for.  As long as they can answer questions about something that's in the store, I'm happy.

I don't expect them to know much about launches far in the future... that's why I come here to Specktra.


----------



## rbella (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MacArtist* 

 
_Just my two cents..

I work for MAC and we learn about new launches at our updates. This one is scheduled for early July so how would we know about what is coming up before we've been? Info is being leaked here (not that I mind, I like to see what's coming up too). So, in closing, please don't blame your local MA's if they don't know whats coming up...we just haven't seen the new launches yet! Yeah, and after it launches, if the MA's can't tell you about the products then that's not a good thing lol !!!_

 

I'm not blaming the MA's at all.  I blame MAC headquarters.  I think the leaks are intentional.  I think if they were an "accident" on MAC's part or true "leaks" then it would be nipped in the bud by now.  Not that I don't totally love Specktra and Janice for giving us this information.  I just feel MAC is doing a disservice to those who truly are "addicted" and "macoholics" by not keeping their own employees informed.  All it does is annoy those of us who are in the know when we want to ask a question about an upcoming launch to an MA and they look at you like your a nimrod.


----------



## rbella (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Meryl* 

 
_My MAs are very knowledgeable about current launches... that's all I can ask for. As long as they can answer questions about something that's in the store, I'm happy.

I don't expect them to know much about launches far in the future... that's why I come here to Specktra. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Again, I'm not pissed at the MA's.  And, I LOVE SPECKTRA!!  I just feel that as a business owner it makes sense to keep your employees in the loop.  I am irritated with MAC headquarters, not MA's, not Specktra.  Just MAC corporate.  

I probably shouldn't have said anything.  I just feel bad for an MA when I know more about their product than they do.


----------



## blindpassion (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

I understand they learn about products at update and that makes sense
but everytime I mention a collection their like "uh what?"
lol so I love specktra 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




but my counter has had sonic chic for a week now in the back... thats very early for them. Im getting a sneak peak soon


----------



## rbella (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *blindpassion* 

 
_I understand they learn about products at update and that makes sense
but everytime I mention a collection their like "uh what?"
lol so I love specktra 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




* but my counter has had sonic chic for a week now in the back*... thats very early for them. Im getting a sneak peak soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Oh hell no!!  I'd bust back there and make them give it to me!!!! J/K


----------



## CantAffordMAC (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACpro__** 

 
_I agree. I hate knowing more than the MA, lol. It makes me look obsessed._

 
I hate that feeling. LoL I've been going to my store more lately and I will see something that I've been thinking about getting and I'll tell my MA "Can i try on ______" and he'll put it on and I look and say "Oh, I love it, I want one" So it looks like I just go there and buy stuff on impulse. But really I've been looking at it online for a month. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_OMG!! That's how I feel. I feel like they think I'm some freak that is so obsessed with MAC....Which I am!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Today I went to Nordie's MAC counter and met an MA named Kyla. I loved her. She will be my go to from now on. She was so sweet, gave me samples and about 6 of the colour forms brochures!! How nice is that???????? I told her about Specktra. I hope she joins. She is so pretty that I wanted to punch her just so she would have a flaw. J/K._

 
I told my MA about specktra and he said a lot of people come in there and tell him to go on specktra.net. I was like AGHHHHH foreal??? He said he will try to but I guess when ur an MA it doesnt excite u quite as much, since u know u will have update sooner or later n u get to see the products everyday u work...

He didn't know there was gonna be a price increase though, he says just the mascaras. I told him I knew about every collection frm now til december and we laughed. I hope he doesnt think I'm crazy...I doubt it though


----------



## blindpassion (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Oh hell no!! I'd bust back there and make them give it to me!!!! J/K_

 


hahaha I know!!
I was like "AHHHHHHHHHHH SNEAK PEAK!? PLEEEEAAASSSEE"
they all know me really well
haha they know I might faint if I see them though I think theyre looking out for my health!


----------



## erine1881 (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MacArtist* 

 
_Just my two cents..

I work for MAC and we learn about new launches at our updates. This one is scheduled for early July so how would we know about what is coming up before we've been? Info is being leaked here (not that I mind, I like to see what's coming up too). So, in closing, please don't blame your local MA's if they don't know whats coming up...we just haven't seen the new launches yet! Yeah, and after it launches, if the MA's can't tell you about the products then that's not a good thing lol !!!_

 
EXACTLY!!!


----------



## lilrumpkinkb (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

i can understand an MA not knowing about collections that don't come out for several months if they dont see the leaked info. but i was at a mac counter 2 days before Cool Heat came out, and i told the MA at the cashier i was excited for cool heat and would be back soon to check it out, and it seemed she had no idea what i was talking about! but she didnt object me coming back to buy more, lol


----------



## rbella (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *erine1881* 

 
_EXACTLY!!!_

 
Actually, Erine, I was thinking of you when I wrote this.  I thought it would be nice to have a MA who was as well informed as you are.  That, oddly enough is what spawned my frustrations.  I remember you posting that you hadn't gotten any info about the launches (one of which is coming on July 8) and yet you weren't going to update until July 7.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  I don't think it is fair to you.  Luckily, you come here and find out all this great information thanks to Specktra, but not every (actually most) MA's don't.  

Unfortunately, I don't have any MA's around here with your type of knowledge and it is frustrating.  I think my problem is that I am looking at it as a lack of communication that is happening between the general public and the customer service.  ALL OF WHICH I BLAME ON MAC CORPORATE, NOT MA'S.

Anyway, I mean no disrespect to MAC MA's, especially you Erine.  I value your opinion greatly.


----------



## anuy (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

i used to work at MAC and i think that corporate tries their best to let us know of upcoming collections. there is just sooo much info that for non MAC obsessed MA's they just don't think about the collections coming 3-4 months away from now. also, updates are quarterly so stuff like the holiday collections may not even be in the next update but the one after that. but compared to other lines MAC has way more artist training / updates / launches overall so i can't complain. 

that being said, it really isn't MAC's fault when MA's don't know collections that are CURRENTLY out. i went to another counter to pick up something that had run out at the mac store and my counter and the MA had no idea what product i was talking about. i find that unacceptable. but i don't think it's MAC 's fault because i know there was an update on it and maybe the MA just wasn't paying attention. but i don't mind if they don't know about collections that are 2 -3 launches away because it probably slipped their mind and they just need to refresh w/ the update book. i mean there is just so much other stuff in life that ma's have to worry about like bills etc that they shouldn't have to know whether or not a pigment being released 2 months from now is a dupe of a pigment from a collection a year and a half ago.

also, i am a huge specktra fan but i think it's kind of annoying when a custmers tried to come in and tell me how to do my job and wanted to show off how much more she knew about upcoming collections than me. there's a difference between genuine enthusiasm and trying to seem better than the MA and trying to make us feel dumb!


----------



## aeroSOUL (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

I personally think that specktra has a crystal ball only used for MAC up comming launches...


----------



## jaclynashley (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

IMO my favorite MA Muffin (Nordstroms at Fashion Show) is really helpful !
Though she knows about Specktra too .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



But here in Puerto Rico the employees at MAC are just down right idiotic .
They just nows recieved Neo Sci Fi but they still had Naughty Nauticals .
The only plus side to them being behind was that I got Bell Bottom Blue and Mutiny piggies .
And when I asked them about Cool Heat the woman there looked at me as if I was a lunatic !


----------



## LMD84 (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

it is frustrating when the MAs don't know about up and ocming collections however i know exactly how they feel. with my job i get major nerds and geeks coming in showing off their product knowledge on the latest tv technology and they only do it to make me feel stupid (which iof course i am not). what is most annoying is that of course these nerds are most of the tiem correct with their infomation and it's thanks to leaks to engaget.com and various other electronics websites. half the time customers do know release dates and such before i do. whihc sucks but that's what happens when people leak things. plus we also battle with teh fact everything comes out in japan and the usa first and alot of the time we get different products to them anyways!

but try and lay off the MAs. it's not their fault most of the time!


----------



## mizzbeba (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jaclynashley* 

 
_But here in Puerto Rico the employees at MAC are just down right idiotic .
They just nows recieved Neo Sci Fi but they still had Naughty Nauticals .
The only plus side to them being behind was that I got Bell Bottom Blue and Mutiny piggies .
And when I asked them about Cool Heat the woman there looked at me as if I was a lunatic !
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
So how does the store just receiving Neo Sci Fi make the MAs idiotic?  Please keep in mind that MAC in Puerto Rico is fairly new so many of the MAs are just learning about the products seeing as there are only two places to get MAC on the island. Maybe you can talk to them about specktra?


----------



## jaclynashley (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *mizzbeba* 

 
_So how does the store just receiving Neo Sci Fi make the MAs idiotic? Please keep in mind that MAC in Puerto Rico is fairly new so many of the MAs are just learning about the products seeing as there are only two places to get MAC on the island. Maybe you can talk to them about specktra?_

 
I never said that the fact that they just got Neo Sci-Fi was idiotic .
I thought it was rude that first of all I had really bad customer service and that the woman didn't know about the collection that just came out !
It's not like I was talking about the Chill collection .
All I'm saying is that they should at least know the next collection and possibly have more MA working instead of making me wait for 30 minutes .
And I should have them learn about Specktra .
But for now I'm going to try shopping at the MAC Pro store and see if I recieve the same customer service .


----------



## nelyanaphonexia (Jul 14, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_This isn't to insult anyone here, because I know that there are fabulous people and not so fabulous people, but I noticed that I get much better service at the freestanding stores than a counter in a department store. I thought MAC was supposed to control both the freestanding and counters very closely._

 
I have had that same exact experience. I love one or two of the MAs at my department store counter, but when I go to the freestanding store or the PRO store in DFW, I seem to get much better service from everyone there. The MA that helped me out in the PRO store was AMAZING!! She literally showed me all her fave products in the whole store and helped me find things that she thought would look good on me and we played with the Chromacakes and paint sticks until our arms were rainbows. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Maybe, its because the customer is different? That is what I would expect. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know if I was an MA I would probably prefer working at a PRO store more-so than a dept. store counter. Plus, getting to play with Chromacakes would be a blast everyday!


----------



## DirtyPlum (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jaclynashley* 

 
_IAnd I should have them learn about Specktra .
._

 
Why do u feel they *have to* learn about Specktra?

With all due respect to Specktra and Specktrites, I dont think Specktra is the be all and end all of MAC!   MAC provide us with the knowledge when they see its necessary and no sooner or later.  If there are going to be any changes, they are great at communicating this to the store managers.  

Why alot of ppl feel MAs need to know about collections so far in advance, im not sure?  How would it benefit customers or MAs exactly?  I had a customer come in store in May asking for Big T e/s.  I said it was LE and rec'd her similar colours and explained LE.  She wanted that exact shade so I then told her abt Cool Heat coming out (in UK) in July and mentioned there will be teals and v v similar shades coming out.  She looked at me,like yeah right I'm gonna wait another two months! What more could I do, she wanted it then and there (dont we all??!) ...

As a customer and MA I want to know abt whats hot right now and yeah maybe whats coming in the future but its not the end of the world if I dont know what kinda MU trends I will be wearing in winter.  I'll cross that bridge when I come to it...

I agree its wrong that some MAs dont know about current collections or the upcoming ones (i.e. within that quarter) ... but our trainers dont expect us to know all the upcoming collections or know exactly every colour coming out and how dis/similar  it is to x, y or z (except for current season, obv).  
At Update we are not taken into depth about every colour - yes the information is provided to us but the trainers dont sit there and go through each colour and talk abt them in depth.  Neither do we really get that much time to look at every single product (unfortunately).  Usually there are abt 20 of us and one tester of each product out.  A lot of them have the working names rather than actual ones too so we arent always going to know the exact name until they come in store...

Our Update training days are jam packed with lessons, customer service workshops, videos, tasks etc and as a trend based company we are informed about current trends and associated techniques as a whole, rather than *individual* colours. 

Yes as a MA it is our responsibility to look through our note books and read abt the colours etc and most of us do (I cant speak for everyone) but at the same time we cant be expected to know every single name and its dupe!  There are some MAs who are addicts and may know about specktra and all the product names etc but not all.

I have only met one other colleague who has actually heard about Specktra... and if it was such a big deal, the powers that be would tell us to log on every night but they dont... cos we hear it from the horses mouth, as and when we need to.  which is enough.  

I know this thread it about ppls frustrations but sometimes I think these frustrations need to be cleared so you guys can understand us better and see where we're coming from too... hope u dont mind. 

and finally... phew! I really hope you all have better experiences when you next go to MAC.

Love DP
xxx


----------



## Paramnesia (Jul 14, 2008)

For me i get annoyed with:

-Prices here... omg don't get me started... paying at least double for the some product here is just crazy

-I actually find a lot of MA's are very rude to me, I'm not sure why. It does kind of hurt that i can't have a nice relationship with the MA's here like so many of you here do but that's their loss... i don't buy from people who treat me badly.

-MA's who don't know a thing about up coming collections, even when they've already been released in the US for a couple weeks. I asked about the VAE at the pro store before it was here and the MA snubbed me off.

-When you  B2M here you only get the choice of a lipstick which really bugs me because I'm allergic to most lip products so i have a heap of empties sitting around my place just incase oneday i go to the US or Canada.

-Late collection releases, oh that bugs me big time... as far as i know cool heat isn't even up on the MAC Aus website.

Though i still love MAC products, i have no probs with products just some policys and MA's.


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## Jello89 (Jul 14, 2008)

I dont expect a MA to know all the upcoming collections especially if they are months and months away. I do get annoyed at the MAs at the counters at the bay. Really piss me off. When I went to pick up a Mineral blush...The MA suggested me love joy. In the lighting in all it looked good. However, with my mediocre skills, I wasnt able to make it look good. WAYYYYYYY to dark, im like NC20. Anyway, I go to exchange it. I wanted to know if dainty was similar to Hipness, I have hipness but coulnt tell if they were similar. I didnt want to blushes that were in the same color family especially if they are close together. So I asked the MA, she seemed to get upset at me for asking that. As if it was the most stupid question in the world. Told me that Hipness was way more orange, and anyways the texture is totally different. I said that I agreed, the texture is totally different, but if they are similar in color,I didnt want it. She then kept repeating way more orange and different texture. Anyways, I jus tbought it and tried it at home. Its not like hipness so fiou. -_- I know this sounds silly but its frustrating when they look at you like you are not worth there time. At the pro store, alway excellent service. Never was I served by the same person, and each time, it was amazing. I think ill stick to the pro store. It could be that the MA was having a bad day and all, but it seems to happen often at the counter at the bay in dt montreal...I guess they do there job however they please. I dont let it piss me off for more than 10 min LOL Just hope next time I go they are a bit nicer!


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## nelyanaphonexia (Jul 14, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACGoddess* 

 
_While you and 15 other people in your area might want a certain collection to come to your counter, there may be no other person in the area that will respond to it, you know?  Think McQueen, SUPER bright shadows and paint pots along with lips and face products; it was a very fashion forward collection, very backstage trendy...a small town with only one MAC counter won't really be the place to release that collection.  People may be overwhelmed by it bc it is so intense and the launch would suffer bc of it.  They try to launch products where they will be most fitting bc it is a business, it costs them a lot of $$ to ship these products but also they lose more $$ if they sit in the drawers for 6 mos only to be sent to a CCO._

 
LOL. I can totally understand this. While it makes me sad that I moved from a larger city in Texas to the middle of nowhere Texas, and now I only have a counter to shop at. NO one here buys the bright colors that I know of. I live in one of the most conservative cities in the US. I even get looks from the women who work at the department stores when I buy bright colors of makeup, oh yeah, you know, the loud whispers. Just loud enough for you to hear them say, "_Ooooh, she must be a slut! buying blue and purple eyeshoadw!! tsk tsk!"_. Yeah, I can't wait to get out of here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I really just don't fit in. 

So I can see why they don't send the pretty colors to where I'm currently located. It's sad for me, but I don't mind the drive to DFW, mostly because it's a trip out of here!


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## panther27 (Jul 14, 2008)

There are way too many exclusives.And Macy's gets excluded all the time which isn't right.MAC should at least let Macy's have that stuff once in a while.I know others that feel the same way I do
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I hope that MAC will not do so many exclusives in the future.


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## nunu (Jul 14, 2008)

too many LE collections..As soon as you go buy from one collection you have to start looking at the next collection , then the next collection...i still didn't have time to play with my naughty nauticals stuff!! LOL

Another frusteration is that MAC in the Middle East doesn't get their collections when the collections are released in the USA/UK. My counter released Neo Sci fi last week, so i'm still waiting for cool heat while others have finished raving about it and moved to sonic chic, new view and electroflash. I asked the MA's what collection is after NSF and they didn't know


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## nursee81 (Jul 15, 2008)

some of the MA at the counter and at f/s stores can be a little on the B*tchy side while other are extremely nice. for the most part everytime i go in to any mac store or counter i spend at least a $100 if not more so getting some good CS would be nice. that why i stopped shopping at macys mac counter cause the girls there were really out of control. Dont they work on commission??? i had stop buy mac when i moved to florida b/c everytime i went in to try something out they would act like they didnt have the time. mean while there was no one in the store customer wise. so i just stop wearing it and would shop at sephora but just recently i started getting back in to mac 5 yrs later. and i have spent well over $1000 dollars in the past 2-3 months. shhhh dont tell the hubby he will kill me.


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## MacArtist (Jul 15, 2008)

We don't work on commission and I'm sorry you had bad customer service. We as MAC artists are trained to give EXCELLENT customer service and if you are not receiving the service you deserve then I would complain to the manager. Artists with bad attitude bring the company down, by losing customers and losing $$$ for the company.


----------



## nursee81 (Jul 15, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MacArtist* 

 
_We don't work on commission and I'm sorry you had bad customer service. We as MAC artists are trained to give EXCELLENT customer service and if you are not receiving the service you deserve then I would complain to the manager. Artists with bad attitude bring the company down, by losing customers and losing $$$ for the company._

 


sorry i thought you guys did. yes i agree that bad cs brings the company down, that is why i stop shopping mac but thankfully they recently had the f&f sale and got me hook again. i love their products dont get me wrong but when you dont have a good cs they lose out and  the other closest mac was an hr away. but its all in the past.


----------



## ms.marymac (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *DirtyPlum* 

 
_Why do u feel they *have to* learn about Specktra?

With all due respect to Specktra and Specktrites, I dont think Specktra is the be all and end all of MAC!   MAC provide us with the knowledge when they see its necessary and no sooner or later.  If there are going to be any changes, they are great at communicating this to the store managers.  

Why alot of ppl feel MAs need to know about collections so far in advance, im not sure?  How would it benefit customers or MAs exactly?  I had a customer come in store in May asking for Big T e/s.  I said it was LE and rec'd her similar colours and explained LE.  She wanted that exact shade so I then told her abt Cool Heat coming out (in UK) in July and mentioned there will be teals and v v similar shades coming out.  She looked at me,like yeah right I'm gonna wait another two months! What more could I do, she wanted it then and there (dont we all??!) ...

As a customer and MA I want to know abt whats hot right now and yeah maybe whats coming in the future but its not the end of the world if I dont know what kinda MU trends I will be wearing in winter.  I'll cross that bridge when I come to it...

I agree its wrong that some MAs dont know about current collections or the upcoming ones (i.e. within that quarter) ... but our trainers dont expect us to know all the upcoming collections or know exactly every colour coming out and how dis/similar  it is to x, y or z (except for current season, obv).  
At Update we are not taken into depth about every colour - yes the information is provided to us but the trainers dont sit there and go through each colour and talk abt them in depth.  Neither do we really get that much time to look at every single product (unfortunately).  Usually there are abt 20 of us and one tester of each product out.  A lot of them have the working names rather than actual ones too so we arent always going to know the exact name until they come in store...

Our Update training days are jam packed with lessons, customer service workshops, videos, tasks etc and as a trend based company we are informed about current trends and associated techniques as a whole, rather than *individual* colours. 

Yes as a MA it is our responsibility to look through our note books and read abt the colours etc and most of us do (I cant speak for everyone) but at the same time we cant be expected to know every single name and its dupe!  There are some MAs who are addicts and may know about specktra and all the product names etc but not all.

I have only met one other colleague who has actually heard about Specktra... and if it was such a big deal, the powers that be would tell us to log on every night but they dont... cos we hear it from the horses mouth, as and when we need to.  which is enough.  

I know this thread it about ppls frustrations but sometimes I think these frustrations need to be cleared so you guys can understand us better and see where we're coming from too... hope u dont mind. 

and finally... phew! I really hope you all have better experiences when you next go to MAC.

Love DP
xxx_

 
Thank you. I try to be familiar with most of our products, but I don't know every single new color that is coming out 6 months in advance. Once they get here I may know most, but as soon as I memorize those a new one comes out in the next week...lol!  MAC has one of the largest amount of SKUs out of all cosmetic brands IRRC, and I am doing good to be familiar with the permanent collection and and most of the current collection featured.  I may be able to say, "Oh, if you love that type of look, come back In Oct, we have a whole collection devoted to that coming in." 

I really think that most people that come into counters love MAC, but they are not like most Specktrites...they just need their staples and maybe some new products to update their look.  You mention a name or tidbit about an eyeshadow and they just look at you with a blank look. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Or they just look at you like you are crazy b/c you are excited about a new product. Or they are looking for Goldbit.  That's coming from a couple of years of experience at different counters.

I have honestly done less and less homework as my MAC career has progressed.  After standing on my feet all day, the last thing I want to do is come home and study more makeup...I want to hang out with my DH and the cat and RELAX...


----------



## purplerinne (Jul 16, 2008)

I've never had a problem when I go into the SF pro store (i want to live there) but I notice when I go to my Nordie's counter, if I don't look a certain way, I get kinda "frowned" upon...but I guess that's more of the MA's that work (or used to work) there....

Oh, and I can't keep up with all these LE collections...but as long as Specktra has the heads up on all the collections at least I can budget my money....


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## Vicodin (Jul 16, 2008)

It sucks that we don't have "back to MAC" here in austria and not a single pro store


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## MaryJane (Jul 16, 2008)

I have several Mac counters, both freestanding and department stores, in my area and have frequented all of them over the years (I've been shopping Mac for a long time). I can probably think of a handful of times that I have received poor service, the majority of the time the MA's are extremely helpful.

Like in any other profession, you'll find some people who are more knowledgeable than others. I would never expect the MA's to tell me if colors from LE collections are comparable to others ~ Mac puts out way too many LE's to keep track of every color.

If you aren't receiving good service from a particular MA then don't buy anything from them. You can always shop on line.


----------



## BALLOO (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Babs* 

 
_There's also the B2M program in Italy._

 
We have also B2M here in Greece.


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## panda0410 (Jul 16, 2008)

I have to say this slightly off B2M issues and others aside... the consistency of MAC products are in decline... in the last 2 months alone I have purchased 3 pigments and one lipstick that are NOT the same colour. Before you jump on this let me point out that all 4 items were legitimately purchased - NOT off ebay, the lipstick itself was from the same collection and batch code (Ahoy There) and the 3 pigments were all a shade off as well. The lippie was the most obvious - I got 2 x brand new ahoy there lippies and both of them are different colours. One is a dusty pink with slight shimmer (a little like masque) the other is a pale seashsell pink with obvious gold glitter. All 3 pigments were at least one shade off - perhaps excuseable here considering there are a few years between the batches, but for me this is becoming more and more frequent. The lipstick just flat out pissed me off because its not the first time this has happened AND its from the SAME batch.....


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## SMMY (Jul 16, 2008)

FYI for people complaining about MAs not knowing what's in a collection. Last year MAC released 49 collections. I don't know how many products that would entail, but let's say six products per collection for a nice round number, though that's probably low. That's 294 products within a twelve month period. This year we're already on collection number 20 (Colorforms) and it's only July. I imagine it would be hard enough to keep track of the permanent Mac catalog, but to try to keep track of the constant influx of products every two weeks would be very difficult. Then when you have someone who comes in and wants you to go into the "way back machine" and compare an item from a limited edition of say two or three years ago that you no longer have, to some new item that just came in three days ago, well then, that's when I'd start pulling my hair out if I was an MA. In three years time, that is around eight or nine hundred limited edition products to try to sift through, which would be nuts to expect someone to have memorized. MAs are people, not computers. 

I don't think a lot of the people here, who think that just knowing what products are coming out in the next month somehow makes you more qualified than a Mac MA, have any idea what the job is like. Working eight hours behind a counter with the public is vastly different than sitting at home in a comfy chair perusing Specktra and memorizing the upcoming collections for the items they are interested in. 
Just had to vent because I'm tired of people thinking they understand what it is like to be a Mac employee when actually they have not a clue. 
Not a Mac employee here, just venting. And showing the MAs some respect. Personally I've never had a bad encounter with a Mac employee, but maybe that's because I have realistic expectations.


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## jasminbarley (Jul 16, 2008)

*****


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## AdlersMommy22 (Jul 16, 2008)

im very frustrated that the only place mac is even sold in illinois is up by chicago.... true thats the most populated city in the state but geographically it doesnt make sense to only have mac in chi. i live in CENTRAL illinois and have to drive 3 hrs to get to a counter. wtf??? common mac theres millions of ppl in IL that dont have access to your products 1st hand. no fair


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## AdlersMommy22 (Jul 16, 2008)

im sorry the closest MAC to me is @ Macy's easy in aurora IL 117 miles away... kidding me? Lk i can make a 2 and 1/2 hour drive with a 3 month old just to go to mac.. SO ANNOYING.. sorry this is just something thats REALLY been making me mad lately...


----------



## jaclynashley (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: MAC Frustrations*

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *DirtyPlum* 

 
_Why do u feel they *have to* learn about Specktra?

With all due respect to Specktra and Specktrites, I dont think Specktra is the be all and end all of MAC! MAC provide us with the knowledge when they see its necessary and no sooner or later. If there are going to be any changes, they are great at communicating this to the store managers. 

Why alot of ppl feel MAs need to know about collections so far in advance, im not sure? How would it benefit customers or MAs exactly? I had a customer come in store in May asking for Big T e/s. I said it was LE and rec'd her similar colours and explained LE. She wanted that exact shade so I then told her abt Cool Heat coming out (in UK) in July and mentioned there will be teals and v v similar shades coming out. She looked at me,like yeah right I'm gonna wait another two months! What more could I do, she wanted it then and there (dont we all??!) ...

As a customer and MA I want to know abt whats hot right now and yeah maybe whats coming in the future but its not the end of the world if I dont know what kinda MU trends I will be wearing in winter. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it...

I agree its wrong that some MAs dont know about current collections or the upcoming ones (i.e. within that quarter) ... but our trainers dont expect us to know all the upcoming collections or know exactly every colour coming out and how dis/similar it is to x, y or z (except for current season, obv). 
At Update we are not taken into depth about every colour - yes the information is provided to us but the trainers dont sit there and go through each colour and talk abt them in depth. Neither do we really get that much time to look at every single product (unfortunately). Usually there are abt 20 of us and one tester of each product out. A lot of them have the working names rather than actual ones too so we arent always going to know the exact name until they come in store...

Our Update training days are jam packed with lessons, customer service workshops, videos, tasks etc and as a trend based company we are informed about current trends and associated techniques as a whole, rather than *individual* colours. 

Yes as a MA it is our responsibility to look through our note books and read abt the colours etc and most of us do (I cant speak for everyone) but at the same time we cant be expected to know every single name and its dupe! There are some MAs who are addicts and may know about specktra and all the product names etc but not all.

I have only met one other colleague who has actually heard about Specktra... and if it was such a big deal, the powers that be would tell us to log on every night but they dont... cos we hear it from the horses mouth, as and when we need to. which is enough. 

I know this thread it about ppls frustrations but sometimes I think these frustrations need to be cleared so you guys can understand us better and see where we're coming from too... hope u dont mind. 

and finally... phew! I really hope you all have better experiences when you next go to MAC.

Love DP
xxx_

 
Yes I totally agree that MA's don't neccasarily have to know about collections coming up months from now but all I'm asking is to at least know the next collection .
The woman who helped me called Neo Sci-Fi the orange packaging collection then left me to help an older woman who's wallet looked alot heavier while in the middle of helping me ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I see where your coming from but it's so frustrating since I'm used to coming to the MAC store hugging my favorite MA and gossiping to her about upcoming collections .


----------



## nursie (Jul 16, 2008)

jasminbarley, i understand what you're saying, especially when i think about someone returning a really popular product (volcanic ash exfoliator) that lots of other people would have wanted.
but i am germ phobic.....at work, with patients with mrsa, we cant allow any items that patient has touched touch us without gloves on (towels, the tv remote)...i dont think the responsibility should be on the mac mua's to determine if a returned product was touched or not, and throwing it out is better safe than sorry for ALL the customers

im only a couple of years into buying mac and i love the line, but i do have friends that loved mac about 10 years ago and they have moved on to other brands because they say the quality is now poor...they hate the eyeshadows and say they are hardly pigmented compared to what they used to be. for me, i think they're great....were they really much better than what they are now?


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## jasminbarley (Jul 16, 2008)

*****


----------



## nursie (Jul 16, 2008)

oh ok, yes i did misunderstand you, i dont want someone's used stuff (no offense to swappers, hey this is my germ phobe thing)......but, now that i do understand you, i disagree with that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's easy to end home and realize you haaaaate the shade of what you just bought, id hate to think i'd be stuck with it, and that's with me having never returned anything i've bought...i just like the knowledge that i can if i needed to.


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## jasminbarley (Jul 16, 2008)

*****


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## MaryJane (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jasminbarley* 

 
_In your example, if it was based on the advice of an MA, then, IMHO, you should be able to return it.

But I think that if you made the mistake and bought the wrong product then you should take responsibility for that mistake. I just don't think people should be allowed to return things just because they changed their mind. It's wasteful, IMHO and I don't think it should be encouraged. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but I think that some people (not saying you in particular) may rely too heavily on MAC's generosity and with such a lax returns policy, there are knock-on effects._

 
I don't think Mac would ever do this..it would be a customer service disaster. There are plenty of times that I buy products in the store but don't try them on until I get home. It's at that point I realize I don't like the color or change my mind because I have another color that is similar. As a customer, I would not appreciate being told 'sorry you changed your mind, you have to keep a product you really don't want'.

Personally, I don't think Mac is being 'generous' with their return policy. Most retailers have a return policy that allows for returns of items regardless of the reason. I've returned cosmetics to department stores for many reasons and have never had a problem, Mac's return policy isn't unusual.


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## jasminbarley (Jul 16, 2008)

*****


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## tiffdultimate (Jul 16, 2008)

I totally agree with you. I have been waiting on Metal Rock since forever. It is very frustrating.


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## MaryJane (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jasminbarley* 

 
_^^ Perhaps it's different where you are.

Here, most shops have a very strict returns policy, particularly with personal care products.

So, not sure that I can agree that it'd be a "customer service disaster."_

 
Maybe it is different where I am ~ I've lived all over the U.S. and have never had issues returning cosmetics, perfumes, etc. When you say 'here' where do you mean?


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## jasminbarley (Jul 16, 2008)

*****


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## DirtyPlum (Jul 17, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *SMMY* 

 
_FYI for people complaining about MAs not knowing what's in a collection. *Last year MAC released 49 collections.* I don't know how many products that would entail, but let's say six products per collection for a nice round number, though that's probably low. *That's 294 products within a twelve month period. This year we're already on collection number 20 (Colorforms) and it's only July*. I imagine it would be hard enough to keep track of the permanent Mac catalog, but to try to keep track of the constant influx of products every two weeks would be very difficult._

 
Wow thanks for that!


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## JustDivine (Jul 17, 2008)

This whole returns business is incredibly wasteful IMO and it all trickles down in the end, because the eventual cost to the company gets passed on to the consumer through increases etc...

I think that the lax returns policy makes people take liberties and knowing that the stuff will be thrown away whether it is used or not should encourage people to think more carefully before they buy things.

It's a company policy issue as well as a personal customer responsibility.


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## ratmist (Jul 17, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jasminbarley* 

 
_"Here" is the UK.  Over in the US, the customer probably is king.  In the UK, I don't think the general perception is that returning personal care products just because you've changed your mind is 'acceptable'.  We're questioned very closely and are forced to kick up a big fuss, call the supervisor, write to the area manager, etc. before anything happens and even then, there's no guarantee that you'll walk away with a refund._

 
This is just a general post in case anyone from the UK or visiting the UK wants to know the rights on refunds.  This isn't a general response to jasminebarley.

From the Trading Standards Central:

*When are you not entitled to anything?*

 If you were told of any faults before you bought the goods. 
 If the fault was obvious and it would have been reasonable to have noticed it on examination before buying. 
 If you caused any damage yourself. 
 If you made a mistake, e.g. *you don't like the colour*, it is the wrong size etc. 
 *If you have changed your mind about the goods, or seen them cheaper elsewhere.* 
*The situation may be different and you may have additional rights where contracts involve:*

 *credit (see ‘your rights when buying on credit’);* 
 *distance selling i.e. not involving face to face contact, for example internet sales, catalogue, telephone sales etc. (see ‘shopping at home’); or* 
 an unsolicited phone call or visit to your home. 
In other words, if you buy online through MAC's UK website, you can return for any reason through the seven day cooling off period.  This is covered by law, but the laws vary slightly depending on what country of the UK you're in.

Buying in a Shop in Scotland:
*"I have just purchased something that I do not want anymore. Does the shop have to give me a refund?"*
No! You are only entitled to a refund if the goods are defective, not as described or not fit for their purpose. However, the trader may be willing to give you a credit note.

Buying in a Shop in England, Wales and Northern Ireland:
*"I have just purchased something that I do not want anymore. Does the shop have to give me a refund?"*
If you purchased goods for cash after visiting a retailer, then no. You are only entitled to a refund if the goods are defective, not as described or not fit for their purpose. However, the trader may be willing to give you a credit note. If, however, you bought goods from a trader and the contract was concluded by means of distance communication, e.g. over the phone, internet, or from a catalogue, then different rules apply. In these circumstances you may be entitled to a cancellation period. (See our 'Distance selling' leaflet.) Also, if you bought goods with credit organised by the retailer, different rules apply. (See 'Your rights when buying on credit' leaflet).

Know your rights.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jasminbarley* 

 
_At grassroots level, SAs in the UK seem to have a nose for people who they think are "trying it on."  It would be a rare and lucky person who'd be able to get a refund without any questions being asked._

 
Not necessarily.  Most major shops and brands don't have a problem with this, in my experience.  If MAC are so concerned with the environment as evidenced by the B2M programme, they shouldn't have a problem with recycling returned goods, if they cannot put them back out for sale.  *shrug*  Sorry, just how I feel about it.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jasminbarley* 

 
_ Whilst I appreciate the fallback of being able to return a product, for whatever reason, I also see the other side and how that could impact a business.  The bigger picture is that there's bound to be some kind of knock-on effect of all this wastage.  Even if we don't look at the environmental impact, there's the financial bottom line.  Customer service might get you the sales but if you make refunds easy then that cuts into your profits.

Edit: Of course, I'm not asking anyone to care about any of this.  You may want to stand by your consumer rights - good for you!  I just think that in the long-term, such a customer service policy isn't sustainable.  Something has got to give.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
I rarely return things.  If I return it at a makeup counter it's almost always because it's not worked for my sensitive skin.  I think there's an argument there that could be made, i.e. if it says it's suitable for all skin types, or suitable for sensitive skin, and I still end up with a reaction, I feel I am entitled to a refund.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The product didn't work "as described" or "as purposed".


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## jasminbarley (Jul 17, 2008)

*****


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## faetis (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *jasminbarley* 

 
_I'm not sure how widespread it is in terms of how strictly each counter adheres to it but I find it very wasteful that people buy products only to then return one or more or even all of their purchases because they've changed their mind or it "doesn't quite work." For example, someone might buy more than three different colours because they can't decide, only then to return two of them days, weeks and even months later!

Since MAC discards that product, it's very wasteful, IMHO.

I can understand that MAC puts a lot of emphasis on customer satisfaction but part of me wonders about the financial and long-term costs of so much wastage and whether or not it would be better to have a more strict returns policy to minimise wastage, with the money saved going towards product development, for example.

Edit: Also see my post further down for more clarification._

 

I know what you mean. Personally, whenever I buy a new product whether it's MAC or some other brand, if I don't like the colour, I'll go back to wherever I purchsed the product from and ask a MA for suggestions on making it work. I just feel there 99% of the time, it's not that "you don't like the colour", it's more of "you just haven't figured out how to make it work yet". Most of the MAs I've met, whether MAC or some other company, are more than happy to help you out. Just my two cents.


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## Love Always Ivy (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *SMMY* 

 
_FYI for people complaining about MAs not knowing what's in a collection. Last year MAC released 49 collections. I don't know how many products that would entail, but let's say six products per collection for a nice round number, though that's probably low. That's 294 products within a twelve month period. This year we're already on collection number 20 (Colorforms) and it's only July. I imagine it would be hard enough to keep track of the permanent Mac catalog, but to try to keep track of the constant influx of products every two weeks would be very difficult. Then when you have someone who comes in and wants you to go into the "way back machine" and compare an item from a limited edition of say two or three years ago that you no longer have, to some new item that just came in three days ago, well then, that's when I'd start pulling my hair out if I was an MA. In three years time, that is around eight or nine hundred limited edition products to try to sift through, which would be nuts to expect someone to have memorized. MAs are people, not computers. 

I don't think a lot of the people here, who think that just knowing what products are coming out in the next month somehow makes you more qualified than a Mac MA, have any idea what the job is like. Working eight hours behind a counter with the public is vastly different than sitting at home in a comfy chair perusing Specktra and memorizing the upcoming collections for the items they are interested in. 
Just had to vent because I'm tired of people thinking they understand what it is like to be a Mac employee when actually they have not a clue. 
Not a Mac employee here, just venting. And showing the MAs some respect. Personally I've never had a bad encounter with a Mac employee, but maybe that's because I have realistic expectations._

 
well ... i disagree actually. i do know what it is like to be a sales person working at a cosmetics counter that frequently releases new collection lines. No, it its not completely unreasonable to ask of a person who's job it is to supposedly sell these collections and products to know about the products and the colors. maybe not to have it all memorized 6 months in advance, but things coming out within the next few weeks, come on, its your JOB to know these things. its the basic retail job description. even if youre a MAC MA. if you dont have product knowledge how are you suggesting things to clients? stick to the same 5 eyeshadows you know? if so i dont know how good your sales are unless youre just the bomb at convincing people to buy a narrow range of products. it makes you look so bad to work at a counter that is infamous for being a very coveted position and when asked a question you dont know your ass from your foot?

if its a problem of sheer volume of the number of products they have to know... tell me why my Sephora MA's have the ability to know information, colors and collections cross brand? if youre at your job for a period of time, you gain product knowledge and know these things, unless its your first week then its understandable. but once again its in your job description to know these things.

so yes, to a degree i disagree with your venting, because at the end of the day we the consumers are going to the counters to ask about products that they are being paid to sell, and they look at us like we made up the whole thing? no thank you.


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## SMMY (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Love Always Ivy* 

 
_well ... i disagree actually. i do know what it is like to be a sales person working at a cosmetics counter that frequently releases new collection lines. No, it its not completely unreasonable to ask of a person who's job it is to supposedly sell these collections and products to know about the products and the colors. maybe not to have it all memorized 6 months in advance, but things coming out within the next few weeks, come on, its your JOB to know these things. its the basic retail job description. even if youre a MAC MA. if you dont have product knowledge how are you suggesting things to clients? stick to the same 5 eyeshadows you know? if so i dont know how good your sales are unless youre just the bomb at convincing people to buy a narrow range of products. it makes you look so bad to work at a counter that is infamous for being a very coveted position and when asked a question you dont know your ass from your foot?

if its a problem of sheer volume of the number of products they have to know... tell me why my Sephora MA's have the ability to know information, colors and collections cross brand? if youre at your job for a period of time, you gain product knowledge and know these things, unless its your first week then its understandable. but once again its in your job description to know these things.

so yes, to a degree i disagree with your venting, because at the end of the day we the consumers are going to the counters to ask about products that they are being paid to sell, and they look at us like we made up the whole thing? no thank you._

 

On the other hand, the level of "expertise" I've experienced at a Sephora counter, leads a lot to be desired. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think there are some real difference between a Sephora counter and a Mac counter that you maybe overlooking. I love my Sephora, don't get me wrong. I just know I'm not going to get the level of expertise there, that I would get at MAC. Usually, I'm pretty much on my own at Sephora, unless I wrangle an MA.


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