# What can we talk about here?



## OnaFyre (Mar 7, 2007)

This came up in another thread, but I'm wondering what exactly can be discussed in this forum and what cannot. I also wonder to what extend the original posters intentions in posting in the beauty of color forum play a part in the decision by mods to move posts around. Thanks in advance for clarifying.


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## Shimmer (Mar 7, 2007)

Perhaps utilizing the "Contact Us" feature found at the bottom of the page might give you a more personalized answer from the site administration.


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## OnaFyre (Mar 7, 2007)

I'd rather see some public generalized guidlines that everyone else can also see.


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## Shimmer (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:

  Beauty of Color Beauty of Color is meant for anyone with a deep skintone. Black, Latin, Asian, Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern, or someone with a killer tan! Want to chat about the brands that work for you, or find out what works for others? Do you have a great tip to share? Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here! Please post your recommendation requests in the proper forum.  
 
And I believe Christine explained that she moved the thread because it doesn't only apply to women of color, but I could be mistaken.


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## OnaFyre (Mar 7, 2007)

I was speaking in general of the threads that have been moved.


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## Janice (Mar 7, 2007)

How about suggestions from those who use this sub forum, what they would like to see from it, and what their current expectations are for it? 

Christine did explain herself and why she moved the thread. I have quoted it for you below.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_Beauty of Color is meant for anyone with a deep skintone. Black, Latin, Asian, Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern, or someone with a killer tan! Want to chat about the brands that work for you, or find out what works for others? Do you have a great tip to share? Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here! Please post your recommendation requests in the proper forum.

Anyother post should be placed in the proper forum, recs/swatches/tuts/cosmetic discussions/chatter/ect.. ect.. 

I felt the need to move this thread for the simple fact that this is a ( Cosmetic Discussion)_


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 7, 2007)

Janice and Jamie thank you for posting... I would have gotten to this sooner but i was painting.

OnaFyre: On Specktra before entering the forum section.. this include all forum section on this site, You will see an explaination of what type of forum you are entering.  This includes things you are able to post about in that particular section.

In this Forum : "Beauty Of Color"  I have a Sticky placed around the top portion   " A Note To Read.." I  put information out there for the members to read so that way our members will know what type of post  is exceptable in this forum.

Located Here:

http://www.specktra.net/showthread.p...520#post637520

Anything that does not belong in this section will be moved
I dont move threads for personal reasons, I move or edit threads because they need to be either edited or moved.

For furture reference if u have any problems or issues with this section please take the time to Pm me so we can discuss this in private.
I have no problems taking the time out to clarify things to our members.


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## OnaFyre (Mar 7, 2007)

I'll say it again. Seriously, I wasn't asking about that specific thread. If anything my question was spurred by this comment

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Me220* 

 
_ I'm interested in the opinions of other women of color, which is why I posted this is the women of color forum. (What exactly can we talk about in there anyway, because everything seems to get moved?)_

 
, 
 which happened to be in that thread. I also saw Christine's response to why the thread was moved, but I still wanted clarification on why so many threads get moved from the Beauty of Color forum.  


I've also read the forum guidelines, but I think they don't fit what I'd like to see in the forum. And I'm not sure why this needs to be discussed in private if others have had similar questions. 

In terms of what I'd like to see... I wish there would be a little more thought and consideration for the original poster. As Me220 points out, she posted in the beauty of color form because she wanted to hear specifically, but not exclusively, from other women of color. That's mostly why I post certain things there and other things elsewhere. I think it also opens the discussion up to a lot of unnecessary confrontation (my black Barbie thread and the recent lightful thread are examples). I'm sure there would be static about these highly charged issues no matter where they are posted, but I figured I was cutting down on it by posting in the beauty of color thread as opposed to wherever it ended up getting moved to. I can only assume that Me220 had similar thoughts.  

The things that get moved to recs are more complicated because there is a clear place for recs, but I still think there’s value in posting about recs that are specific to people of color in the beauty of color thread. 

Which I suppose speaks more generally of what I'd like to see. I originally thought that the beauty of color forum would be a clearinghouse for the many threads that touch on issues of beauty and difference. I've never seen any cross listing on Spectra and don't know if it's possible, but it seems like this would fix a lot of the issues with moving posts around.

I’ve also noticed that these discussions on race happen a lot, and I get the message that it’s not appropriate to bring that up in the beauty of color forum.  It might be worthwhile to create a forum focused on it so that those that want to play can, and those that don’t can ignore it. Janice, I also wanted to thank you for your comments and understanding about the possibility of race and identity politics not being safe on Specktra, but these are the tools we are given. I wonder if this might be a good way to use these tools. 

Honestly, I'm just glad beauty of color exists and will continue to use it (sometimes posting in the wrong place) even if no changes are made.


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 7, 2007)

This section was created to have ladies  of all races to discuss what products worked for them.  And the share that information with all of our members.  All the topics in relation with Recs.. will be moved to Recs... " and majorty of post in here are realted to Recs thats why they were moved.   Black Barbie thread had nothing to do with a cosmetics line working for you which needed to be placed in the Chatter section.  Either way if the thread was not moved the same reactions would have been posted.  I think sometimes our members forget that Specktra is open to all members.. and that means sections forums topics ect. ect.

I dont second guess my moderating skills, i dont second guess moving post around or editing.  

Maybe there are things that we can do to make posting in this section easier or clarify what can be posted.  But i thought i did that in the sticky.  We are always up for sug. for making our site more plesent for our members and for our future members.


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## OnaFyre (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_This section was created to have ladies  of all races to discuss what products worked for them.  And the share that information with all of our members.  All the topics in relation with Recs.. will be moved to Recs... " and majorty of post in here are realted to Recs thats why they were moved.   Black Barbie thread had nothing to do with a cosmetics line working for you which needed to be placed in the Chatter section.  Either way if the thread was not moved the same reactions would have been posted.  I think sometimes our members forget that Specktra is open to all members.. and that means sections forums topics ect. ect.

I dont second guess my moderating skills, i dont second guess moving post around or editing.  

Maybe there are things that we can do to make posting in this section easier or clarify what can be posted.  But i thought i did that in the sticky.  We are always up for sug. for making our site more plesent for our members and for our future members._

 

Wow, this post makes me think that suggestions are not at all welcomed or valued. So I'll just shut up. Nevermind, forget I said anything. Sorry for wasting your time.


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *OnaFyre* 

 
_Wow, this post makes me think that suggestions are not at all welcomed or valued. So I'll just shut up. Nevermind, forget I said anything. Sorry for wasting your time._

 

1: ur not wasting my time
2: if u read the bottom protion of my post u will see where i stated suj are always welcomed
3: Everything that i stated in my post as for moving post around i stand by 100%

I have guidelines i follow by and i will follow them.  All i stated was if a thread is started in here that does not belong in here then i will take whatever steps that needs to be taken.

i said it once and ill say it again...

"We are always up for Suj."  You can publicly voice ur suj in a thread... you can Pm me.  either way i will take everything into consideration.  my job is not to create problems but to try to resolve them and to make "the beauty of color" section or more plesant place to post"


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## Shimmer (Mar 7, 2007)

I really feel compelled to point out that this forum (WoC) was created the day it was suggested. Users pointed out an area of weakness in the site and literally almost immediately the administration resolved the issue.


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## ARmakeupjunkie (Mar 7, 2007)

To answer the question that Janice had earlier, I would like to see the threads that are directed at Women of Color be posted here and not moved even if someone thinks its a Rec or a Discussion or whatever.  When I want to know how a color looks on someone with my skintone, I want to be able to ask in this sub form and it not be moved to Rec or whathaveyou.  If I am looking for the opinion of another Women of Color on a cosmetics or skincare product, I would like to be able to post in this sub form.


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## Shimmer (Mar 7, 2007)

A recommendation is a recommendation.
A color story/cosmetic discussion is exactly that, that's what those forums are for.
If that's what those forums are for, that's where threads that fall under them are supposed to be moved to.


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## prinzessin784 (Mar 7, 2007)

why do we have to be segregated so much?  I find a lot of interesting topics in the Beauty of Color section that I sometimes don't feel like I am welcome to comment on b/c I am an NW15.

If you want a color swatched on a particular skin tone, why can't you specify that in the post in the recommendation section?  I think that's pretty common.  It's not like there is a special NW15 forum or NW25 forum and there doesn't need to be!  Why exclude the help you could get from someone who isn't the same color as you?


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## Beauty Mark (Mar 7, 2007)

This subsection isn't meant to not include people or only be about other people. I don't know what the OP is about exactly or to what she's referring, but the basic idea of this forum is for the discussion of cosmetics and PoC. It's an organizational tactic, like I separate my lipsticks from my eyeshadows.

I don't know if it's just me, but this forum has always been open and welcome to ANYONE wanting to learn or contribute to the discussion. I've posted once before about wanting know how to do makeup for someone of a different color than I (I'm Asian, btw), and everyone was nice and helpful.


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## OnaFyre (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_1: ur not wasting my time
2: if u read the bottom protion of my post u will see where i stated suj are always welcomed
3: Everything that i stated in my post as for moving post around i stand by 100%

I have guidelines i follow by and i will follow them.  All i stated was if a thread is started in here that does not belong in here then i will take whatever steps that needs to be taken.

i said it once and ill say it again...

"We are always up for Suj."  You can publicly voice ur suj in a thread... you can Pm me.  either way i will take everything into consideration.  my job is not to create problems but to try to resolve them and to make "the beauty of color" section or more plesant place to post"_

 

I did in fact read the bottom of your post, and I felt that everything you said previous totally negated and contradicted it. Janice asked for people oppionions on this forum, I gave mine. But if you don't second guess moving posts around, then you probably won't take most or any of what I said into consideration because most of it had to do with moving posts. So, again, sorry for wasting your time.


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *OnaFyre* 

 
_I did in fact read the bottom of your post, and I felt that everything you said previous totally negated and contradicted it. Janice asked for people oppionions on this forum, I gave mine. But if you don't second guess moving posts around, then you probably won't take most or any of what I said into consideration with the possibilty of making a change based on something I said as most of it had to do with moving posts. So, again, sorry for wasting your time._

 
Dont tell me how i am or how i perceive things.  

and once again you didnt waste my time


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## claresauntie (Mar 7, 2007)

I've posted in Beauty of Color and I'm not "of color". I found it to be a very friendly place. I do agree that there may be a benefit to having cosmetics discussions remain in the BoC section, as there are specific issues women of color can help other women of color with. Those who wish to read/view/discuss/assist and aren't women of color should feel free to enter and participate, as many of us do. 

I'm one of the folks who is Not of Color (very fair) and we have some things we like to toss around with other pigment-challenged folks. Being fair is not the same as being "of color" in a social, cultural or historical sense, but strictly from a cosmetics standpoint there are similarities. An NC 35 doesn't understand what I go through to find foundation, and I don't have a clear picture of some of the needs of a NW 55. Of course, there are artists "on board" who can chime in on any of these topics. That's the beauty of Specktra!

Could folks post their swatch requests or cosmetics discussions in the "appropriate" forum, then link to that from BoC and discuss the "of color" aspects of it? Just tossing it out, though I think it's silly.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *OnaFyre* 

 
_I’ve also noticed that these discussions on race happen a lot, and I get the message that it’s not appropriate to bring that up in the beauty of color forum. It might be worthwhile to create a forum focused on it so that those that want to play can, and those that don’t can ignore it...

... Janice, I also wanted to thank you for your comments and understanding about the possibility of race and identity politics not being safe on Specktra, but these are the tools we are given. I wonder if this might be a good way to use these tools._

 
Would these conversations be appropriate in Deep Thoughts? Chatter?


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:

  Could folks post their swatch requests or cosmetics discussions in the "appropriate" forum, then link to that from BoC and discuss the "of color" aspects of it? Just tossing it out, though I think it's silly  
 
.





Actually ur idea is not silly at all...


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## martygreene (Mar 7, 2007)

As it was brought up earlier in this thread- a cross-referencing tool/widget/whateveryoucallit is not currently available for the forum software. This is in fact a very rare attribute for forums. We are keeping our eyes open for such a tool, and will most likely impliment it as soon as one becomes available. It's been brought up before for many things.

As far as why things go to the reccs, reviews, etc. forums is for the sake of the ability to find things. When a user comes to the site looking for a review of a product, even an "of color" specific product, or looking for what people have reccomended for a product, they will go to those forums and look. If one forum includes general discussion, chatter, cosmetics discussion, reviews, fotds, tutorials, reccs, and everything else willy-nilly it becomes havok and incredibly difficult to navigate. Those of you who have been with us since the inception of Specktra will remember those days from when we first started.


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## claresauntie (Mar 7, 2007)

I kinda meant something as simple as this: http://specktra.net/showthread.php?t=66845.

I understand that a x-referencing dealio isn't available, but can't people do this until one is?


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *claresauntie* 

 
_I kinda meant something as simple as this: http://specktra.net/showthread.php?t=66845.

I understand that a x-referencing dealio isn't available, but can't people do this until one is?_

 
i can def see if a member is asking for a swatch of a color they are looking for, then posting a direct link from specktra from the swatch section.. or if a member has a question regaurding a specific product from Mac, Nars exc. to link them to a post that is posted in either Mac, or Nars ect.  That would work.  however if someone is asking for recs i would find it hard to link them directly if the  the thread has been moved to recs.  

Its something we still have to work on to get this section in order


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## Hawkeye (Mar 7, 2007)

Onafyre! I just love that name 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I think you may have the right idea. And I understand the frustraition. I mean I happened to look through after reading this thread and went wow there are a lot of moved thereads- what is the point of having such a forum if it's only going to get moved!

But at the same time we have to remember that there is an appropriate place for every topic. I don't think that Hyperrealgirl just likes moving things around - I really don't. But she as a moderator has to do her job and what Specktra asked her to do. 

I think it would be a very good idea that you and the other member suggested to put up a set of guidelines of what can and cannot be posted in the forum because it does seem very very confusing. But at the same time- this forum does seem nonexistant with everything being moved.

But she's only doing what she has been asked to do. Anytime that there is a request for a recommendation-it goes in the recommendations. And that is necessary because other people may want an answer to that question. But at the same time - that's 80% of what the ladies discuss in here.

Same with certain products like how does NARS etc it should be moved to the appropriate forum just so it's easier to find not just for the gorgeous ladies of color but also others. 

It helps things to flow easier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I do think that since it does cause you a lot of concern I do recommend (and you probably already have!) - because I don't believe you are wasting anybodies time, I just am not sure you brought your ideas forth in a manner that would help what you are trying to get across the most. 

But it's OK! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think the most effective way to do this and you will get a response that is appropriate-I have all the faith in the world in these ladies-is contact Janice or Juneplum. Or even e-mail the mod who you do question and ask what is going on. 

Also-I know you don't see why discussing things in private when others have the same questions is necessary-but calling people out on a public forum is very insulting to anybody! And I have to admit it really did seem like you were calling Hyper out. I'm really 100% sure if you had just paged Christine and stated your case she would've put a sticky up there with no questions asked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it does kind of blindside a person and it also makes the other party feel very defensive. Does that make any sense? Suggestions on specktra are ALWAYS welcome but again-its how it's done that will get the more positive reaction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Anyway back to the thing at task (now I'm rambling-but thats what I do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) -

since it really does concern you e-mail Janice, Juneplum, and Hyperrealgurl and tell them your concerns because they are very very valid and I promise you- you will get a response and they are very nice ladies and it will help out a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I suspect that once you talk it over with them tell them your frustraitions that they will e-mail each other and put a sticky up or something like that that will clarify the issue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




So don't worry-keep your chin up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure a solution will come


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## bsquared (Mar 8, 2007)

_I like what Hawkeye said . . . so I was inspired to post as well_

if a topic is started in the BoC forum and it's about recs or whatevertheheck and it's moved, then whats the point of having a BoC forum? Everything will be moved then because there is always anoher "place" that the topic could have started in. I thought BoC was a place that women of color (and others) could post/reply about things that concerned THEM specifically? Posting here doesn't mean that you don't want ANYONE else to read it, it just means that you want to bring it to the immediate attention of WoC. I don't know any of the moderators personally, nor do I have an opinion of there individual practices and/or views therefore this isn't directed at anyone personally just a general observation and opinion from a long time specktra lurker and new member 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . So, if you feel the need to refute me and my opinion then PM me and we can clear it up.

Personally, the BoC forum is the first forum I go to when I make my rounds through specktra and the last one I stop at before leaving. I appreciate not having to sift through the other forums just to find the topic that relates to my skin tone, sometimes. If I want to find out what folks recommend for my skintone immediately then BOOM it's right here without all the searching and sifting.

I hope we find a way to work this out for the good, I really like the BoC section and specktra as a whole. Lets not let our cyber feelings get hurt over this matter, we're all women here so lets treat each other as such. I agree that there should be some type of crossposting mechanism but in the meantime lets just take advantage of the resources we have.

toodles ladies


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## Hawkeye (Mar 8, 2007)

You know as I was reading your post since you do check through it a lot why don't we have subforums for this much like we do our subforums for other topics? Like for recs and stuff? 

That would be a good idea that would help this problem a little bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




my only fear is that i wouldn't want anyone to feel segregated if the mods did decide to do that.


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_ 



I think it would be a very good idea that you and the other member suggested to put up a set of guidelines of what can and cannot be posted in the forum because it does seem very very confusing. But at the same time- this forum does seem nonexistant with everything being moved.

_

 

There is a set of guidelines in here that ive posted on January 3.2007
http://www.specktra.net/showthread.php?t=62951


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## Me220 (Mar 8, 2007)

I'm still really unclear as to what the guidelines mean. I think we need to consider audience as a determining factor for where a post goes. There are concerns that are better suited to women of color, but everyone is wecome on the board, just as most of the WoC are active in other sections of the board. If this forum was created for us to talk to each other, why can't we choose what we talk about? I actually would love subcategories in our forum, that way we can define our posts by both audience and purpose.


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Me220* 

 
_I'm still really unclear as to what the guidelines mean. I think we need to consider audience as a determining factor for where a post goes. There are concerns that are better suited to women of color, but everyone is wecome on the board, just as most of the WoC are active in other sections of the board. If this forum was created for us to talk to each other, why can't we choose what we talk about? I actually would love subcategories in our forum, that way we can define our posts by both audience and purpose._

 
ME220 im trying to come up with a way to implament guidelines that are more clear for everyone to follow by.  time is what i need...

If any members have specific suj im asking that you PM it to me and i will go over it with Janice to see if we can work something out


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## Shimmer (Mar 8, 2007)

Why can't the audience be women? just...women...regardless of race and color? 
There was a thread awhile back about a customer coming into the MAC store and not wanting to work with an MA because she wasn't the same race as the customer...yet the MA the customer didnt want to work with was one of the more talented ones in the store and would likely have been able to assist the customer quite well.

I'm really curious, why do women of darker pigmentation need a seperate forum and subforums to discuss amongst themselves makeup, when the entire site is dedicated to makeup for all women?


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *martygreene* 

 
_As it was brought up earlier in this thread- a cross-referencing tool/widget/whateveryoucallit is not currently available for the forum software. This is in fact a very rare attribute for forums. We are keeping our eyes open for such a tool, and will most likely impliment it as soon as one becomes available. It's been brought up before for many things.

As far as why things go to the reccs, reviews, etc. forums is for the sake of the ability to find things. When a user comes to the site looking for a review of a product, even an "of color" specific product, or looking for what people have reccomended for a product, they will go to those forums and look. If one forum includes general discussion, chatter, cosmetics discussion, reviews, fotds, tutorials, reccs, and everything else willy-nilly it becomes havok and incredibly difficult to navigate. Those of you who have been with us since the inception of Specktra will remember those days from when we first started._

 

This basicly explains why all the forums in Specktra is set up the way they are..


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## martygreene (Mar 8, 2007)

As for the question about why have this forum at all if reccs, etc. will still be moved to their respective forums, this is something that the staff and administration has been discussing since the original request for this forum to exist. Where to draw the line. I personally am reluctant to make a reccs, cosmetic discussion, reviews, etc. sub forum for this forum. I don't want to make a mini race-specific specktra inside of specktra. I agree that the overarching audience for specktra is people who want to talk about makeup. Not even just women, but people. 

As for the rationalization that this forum is a necessity and wanted so that people don't have to sift through other forums for information pertinent to your skintone, that's simply not going to hold true and already doesn't. You're still going to have to sort out the golden from the tawny from the mocha from the ebony. The asiatic skintones (which all vary greatly based on ethnic origin), from the african skintones, from the pacific islander skintones, from the latina skintones, from the... It's not just darker skintones who have to sift- we all do. I have to sift to find info that's pertinent to my transparent white skin (caused by medical condition, not my choice). Others have to sift to find things pertinent to their tan skin, or olive undertone, or cool undertone, or what have you. No matter what amount of melanin you have in your skin, what base tones you have, etc. you're going to have to sift through some information which isn't pertinent to you to find that which is.


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## ~*Starlicious*~ (Mar 8, 2007)

Question about this section --
_*Want to chat about the brands that work for you,* *or find out what works for others?*_
If I post what works for me -- for example, I'm NC 43 and I want to know what other brand to use for my foundation. Someone posts that I can use Chanel's medium foundation. Would this be considered a reco?

Question about this statement
*Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here*
If I posted something about Revlon or Stila, wouldn't it be moved to the forum for other makeup brands?


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## Beauty Mark (Mar 8, 2007)

The way I see it is that there are lj communities dedicated towards various types of beauty. If you go to a general one, of course, there'll be people who'll help, but there's a larger concentration of x people in x_beauty community than in the general one.

I've always seen this section as a sub-section of the general cosmetics section, which doesn't include recs. To me, recs are very specific to you, whereas general discussion is pertinent to everyone, like does this collection work for darker women?

Just my two cents.


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## Me220 (Mar 8, 2007)

There are makeup issues specific to women of color. And while I appreciate the forum, there seems to be a lot of hostility from non-WoC toward this forum, and there is a definite disconnect between what the WoC want from the section and what non-WoC want to give. And to be perfectly honest, in light of the hostility, I am questioning what I want from this site period. 

And this is not at HyperRealGurl, this is about being able to choose your audience. I am all over this site, I read information posted by all women for all things, but there are some issues that I would like addressed by women of color that not only have to do with just makeup, but the perceptions accompanying the makeup. And the majority of threads in here have been invaded by non-WoC telling WoC how to feel, what to do, and what to think about what being a WoC means. It's about self-identification vs. identifying an "other." And this boils down to who gets to determine what is important. And if you (in general) feel that what we are discussing isn't important enough to warrant our own control or at least a semblance of balance, then I would rather I know now and have you remove the board, than through some creative editing on the backend.


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## awhookie7 (Mar 8, 2007)

I could be wrong, but I believe that this forum was created because WOC seem to have a harder time finding makeup that suits our skintone while non -WOC seem to have no problem because most of the makeup being made is geared toward non WOC.  We are now just beginning to see makeup that suits WOC. I don't know how many times I have went to a drugstore and I could not find my shade. I became really fustrated at this and wondered why all makeup seemed to be geared toward non - WOC, as if WOC don't wear makeup. I love that we have a forum where we (WOC) can suggest and/or communicate to each other what makeup looks good on our skin, whether it be from a department store or drug store. This forum was not meant to be biased at all. I believe all women are welcome here. I love the fact that I can click on a forum and have all the information there that I need, rather than to search all forums for what I am looking. This forum has really helped me. By reading what works for other WOC I can now make better purchases from stores and therefore be satisfied when I get home with what I have bought. Like I said, I could be wrong but in my opinion this why there is a separate forum for WOC.


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## Larkin (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_A recommendation is a recommendation.
A color story/cosmetic discussion is exactly that, that's what those forums are for.
If that's what those forums are for, that's where threads that fall under them are supposed to be moved to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
I don't know any of y'all personally but I feel bad as if my friends or family are bickering. I love all of you guys.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I understand everyone's points. Let me say this and maybe somneone can tell me if they understand/agree. 

If I were to ask for a rec here, it isn't because I don't think a white person could help me or reccomend something that becomes me. I might have asked the question here because I'm assuming more women my complexion would view it. Also someone may have used a certain product on our skin and would be able to tell me how it wears. It's more of a numbers thing. I always visit this forum to see if anyone my complexion has posted something they thinks look great on them. 

I can't say I visit the Recs board though. Maybe it is wrong to assume more WoC would see a rec/respond to it in BoC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







By doing this, I could have possibly missed or denied someone the opportunity to help me. They may have a friend,coworker,etc who uses/wears something that would look good on me, or they may be an artist who just worked on someone my color and would like to throw in their rec.  This sums up my little perspective.


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## claresauntie (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *awhookie7* 

 
_I could be wrong, but I believe that this forum was created because WOC seem to have a harder time finding makeup that suits our skintone while non -WOC seem to have no problem because most of the makeup being made is geared toward non WOC.  We are now just beginning to see makeup that suits WOC. I don't know how many times I have went to a drugstore and I could not find my shade. I became really fustrated at this and wondered why all makeup seemed to be geared toward non - WOC, as if WOC don't wear makeup. I love that we have a forum where we (WOC) can suggest and/or communicate to each other what makeup looks good on our skin, whether it be from a department store or drug store. This forum was not meant to be biased at all. I believe all women are welcome here. I love the fact that I can click on a forum and have all the information there that I need, rather than to search all forums for what I am looking. This forum has really helped me. By reading what works for other WOC I can now make better purchases from stores and therefore be satisfied when I get home with what I have bought. Like I said, I could be wrong but in my opinion this why there is a separate forum for WOC._

 
See, and that's the crux of the problem/issue at hand. I understand you want the input of the other WoC and that it benefits you. I think that's what many people have interpreted the "guidelines" to mean goes on in the BoC forum -and that interpretation is what has caused the need for this discussion. 

I do consider it nickel-and-diming to look through the posts and find "Aha! She mentioned Shiseido, so off it goes to another forum." (No offense, mods- I see the conundrum you face.) Because, otherwise the forum, it seems to me, becomes somewhere to chat about what shade your skin is and speak only in generalites and vagaries, with any specifics warranting a forum change. 

I see WoC post requests in other threads, and participate fully in other forums. I've seen WoC ask for recs in the Recs forum, and I've seen product swatches on dark skin (thank you! as an artist I like that!!). But there _are _situations in which people want advice from a group of people who face their same issues. (Note: this is the reason we were lobbying for a Porcelain Beauties section, for those of us with super fair skin)

It is absolute fact that for years and years, cosmetic companies did not cater to the needs of darker complections. WoC relied on brands specifically for WoC (Fashion Fair, Iman, etc...), but how fair is that? Now, gradually, most companies seem to be expanding their focus, but I believe WoC need a place specifically devoted to them so they can share their finds and tips and such with one another. 

*Hyperrealgurl*- thanks for looking into this.


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## Hawkeye (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

  There is a set of guidelines in here that ive posted on January 3.2007
[URL]http://www.specktra.net/showthread.php?t=62951[/URL]  
 
I looked through this and I can really truely see why there is a lot of confusion. 

Please note that the Beauty Of Color Sections is for...

*Beauty of Color is meant for anyone with a deep skintone. Black, Latin, Asian, Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern, or someone with a killer tan! Want to chat about the brands that work for you, or find out what works for others? *

This sounds like you can ask for reccomendations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




* Do you have a great tip to share? *

Again, this sounds like you can ask for recommendations and you can post something that would be placed in the industry discussion boards or the cosmetics discussion boards. 

*Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here! *

Again this looks like you can discuss brands on here as well-also with recs. 

*Please post your recommendation , looks, tuts, cosmetic discussions, ect. ect..requests in the proper forum.*


This reads to me that: Everything I said you can post about- you can't post about it here anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think it is the wording that is the most confusing.


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## ARmakeupjunkie (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_I looked through this and I can really truely see why there is a lot of confusion. 

Please note that the Beauty Of Color Sections is for...

*Beauty of Color is meant for anyone with a deep skintone. Black, Latin, Asian, Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern, or someone with a killer tan! Want to chat about the brands that work for you, or find out what works for others? *

This sounds like you can ask for reccomendations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Do you have a great tip to share? *

Again, this sounds like you can ask for recommendations and you can post something that would be placed in the industry discussion boards or the cosmetics discussion boards. 

*Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here! *

Again this looks like you can discuss brands on here as well-also with recs. 

*Please post your recommendation , looks, tuts, cosmetic discussions, ect. ect..requests in the proper forum.*


This reads to me that: Everything I said you can post about- you can't post about it here anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think it is the wording that is the most confusing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!! You just hit the nail on the head!!


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 8, 2007)

So tell me if im wrong...

1: you ladies want a subforum in the BoC section
2: no more moving post


this is what im getting out of all of this... And if the guidelines are confusing as some would say. That can be easily addressed, changed, clerified or what have you. 

Nor am i the admin of this site meaning www.Specktra.com i can only do so much.  Meaning i cant move mountains (sorry ladies but i cant) 

I have Guidelines that i have to follow by so therefore i am not the one that can change rules nor regulatons on this site , or how the site is layed out.  And this also goes for adding subforums.  i can only take request and pass the message along.  Where it goes from there has nothing to do with me.

I just want to make this very clear... i take account for every post i moved to recs, chatter, cosmetic discussions or where ever else ive moves threads to.  B.c i felt like the threads i moved belong in that area or would have a better outcome or the member posting the thread will get a better  response to the question or topic in hand.

trust me i dont move things around for cookies and milk, I have ppl i  have to answer to also so every decision made in the BoC section is not soley on myself.  Nor is moving all the threads around.  If clearly i was doing something wrong it would have been adressed to me personally by the Admins.

I dont think this site was intedned to be split in the midlde and put  WoC in one section and Non-WoC in another section.


IMo that is segregation and its wrong.  i just dont understand why members of all ethnic backgrounds share with one another... 


Calling me out doesnt resolve anything feeling like comments are directed twards me b.c things are not the way u as members want it. doesnt do anything.  

this thread has been going on day 2.  And still i feel like the only thing i got out of reading everyones post is those 2 things i mentioned up top.

can i sit here and tell you   (yes all of this will happen)  no i cant, b.c i know just as much as you do. 


I can pass the information along, but thats about it.


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## martygreene (Mar 8, 2007)

I just want to say that everything being said in this forum is something that Janice and I have been discussing since the day this forum was incepted. We knew this issue would come up, partially because this forum WAS created the day it was suggested. We've been trying to come up with the best way to deal with these issues. We agree that the wording in the description needs work, and we're trying to figure out just what it should say. 

Whatever our personal feelings towards having a separate forum for "women of color" (a term which I loathe, but then I loathe any term which generalizes people based on skintones), Janice, myself, and the other staff members know that you wanted this forum, and we respect that. We want you to get the most out of Specktra that you can. We also want to keep things organized so that new people can understand it, so that the seasoned vets can use it, and so everything works smoothly.


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## Indian Barbie (Mar 8, 2007)

I don't like that the posts get moved a lot either.


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Indian Barbie* 

 
_I don't like that the posts get moved a lot either._

 
most people dont


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## Hawkeye (Mar 8, 2007)

*HUGS Christine* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't agree with how any of this was addressed to you -calling you out like they did/and even I did to an extent-and I can at least say I hope my posts weren't embarressing to you as they really were not ment to be-you know i love ya 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you got the two main points I think the ladies are concerned about. 

I'm sure the administrators will be able to figure something out. You did your job and that's all you really can do


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## hyperRealGurl (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_*HUGS Christine* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't agree with how any of this was addressed to you -calling you out like they did/and even I did to an extent-and I can at least say I hope my posts weren't embarressing to you as they really were not ment to be-you know i love ya 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you got the two main points I think the ladies are concerned about. 

I'm sure the administrators will be able to figure something out. You did your job and that's all you really can do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Girl its okay i wasnt embarreassed at all by your statement. 

And yes i def got the main point.. ladies want a sub forum and they dont want the forum to be moderated over.


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## OnaFyre (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_*HUGS Christine* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't agree with how any of this was addressed to you -calling you out like they did/and even I did to an extent-and I can at least say I hope my posts weren't embarressing to you as they really were not ment to be-you know i love ya 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you got the two main points I think the ladies are concerned about. 

I'm sure the administrators will be able to figure something out. You did your job and that's all you really can do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I never called Christine out. I asked a clarifying question. I actually didn't realize until this discussion was well underway (when people kept telling me why Christine moved another thread) that Christine was the only one moderating this forum, so I literally did not call her out. If she interprated that as calling her out, then I don't know what to say to that except sorry. At one point, her posts were hostile towards me,

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_This section was created to have ladies  of all races to discuss what products worked for them.  And the share that information with all of our members.  All the topics in relation with Recs.. will be moved to Recs... " and majorty of post in here are realted to Recs thats why they were moved. *  Black Barbie thread had nothing to do with a cosmetics line working for you which needed to be placed in the Chatter section.  Either way if the thread was not moved the same reactions would have been posted.  I think sometimes our members forget that Specktra is open to all members.. and that means sections forums topics ect. ect.

I dont second guess my moderating skills, i dont second guess moving post around or editing.  

Maybe there are things that we can do to make posting in this section easier or clarify what can be posted.  But i thought i did that in the sticky.  We are always up for sug. for making our site more plesent for our members and for our future members.*_*
*
*
*
*
**

 and I responded in kind

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by OnaFyre 

 
Wow, this post makes me think that suggestions are not at all welcomed or valued. So I'll just shut up. Nevermind, forget I said anything. Sorry for wasting your time.

 
and the hostility went on from there. That was the begining point (which was not the begining of the thread) at which the discussion became personal or directed at specific persons, which I would say wasn't started by me and probably had more to do with things going on in other threads. 

I'm so glad someone is here to hug and support Christine, but I think there are others here on specktra who wish they could have the same care and support when they feel wronged and attacked. I sure do.*


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## Hawkeye (Mar 8, 2007)

I think- and I may be wrong- that you truely did not realize you were calling not just her but also the administration out as well. And I can understand that. 

I don't think she was being hostile towards you and here is why: How can you second guess something when it was asked of you to do it? 

It's really not a matter of having to second guess of if something should be moved or not IF someone above you asked you to make sure posts go into the appropriate forum. You can't really second guess that. 

I can't defend her in the editing as I'm not sure what goes on there.

I'm sure a LOT of us -actually ALL of us involved in this thread could have worded things A LOT better than we did. Just reading through the front page of this-it did seem like you were calling people out the mods were sticking up for the other mod- then you had the administration who was trying to figure out what was actually needed or was being asked and then you had others who were agreeing with you but there was no definate thing as to what was being asked. 

So in short you did have the support- but with everyones tone you couldn't see it. Christine is a friend of mine, I'm going to support her. But if you notice, I also supported you with clarifying what you were asking. 

I have to say it but the hostilities started way before Christine made that comment. Suggestions are always welcome but it almost seemed that (and again this could've been worded differently from the person who made it) that when the person pointed out about the contact us now button- there was a reason so that nobody would feel attacked and when you said no why can't everyone see this? again it was a calling out statement. 

Again, I know the reason why you did it because you know there should be a public response but at the same time - I know you didn't realize exactly the way it appeared so don't worry about it. 

Just know others did support you as well and believe it or not so did the administration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If they didn't they wouldn't have bothered posting


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## honyd (Mar 9, 2007)

i agree.. i think this and the other post that org started have gotten way out of whack.   ((((((hugssss))))) to everyone.   Peoples opinions and ideas.(which..no one will ever agree to see eye to eye on certian subjects). all opntions matter.  But in life if u dont like something that cant be changed... (ie the mods doing thier job)... then find another way around it. Make a change that u can....  I kno some members on here who (still stay members here) have created thier own boards dealing specificly with what they want( like finding ccos) ...and they get to do thier own thing b/c its thier board.  So if anyone feels so limited...there are things you can do about it.


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## Me220 (Mar 9, 2007)

I also want it clear that I was not intending to attack anyone; I was trying to elaborate on where my concerns come from so that whoever wishes to address those concerns knows that it's not pettiness over the debacle that was my original question. I participated in this to support OnaFyre, who I have learned in the last few days is a pretty kindred spirit, and to voice where my very similiar concerns were coming from. It's not meant to be an attack, it's meant to be a clarification on why the limits we've faced have felt so personal.


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## faifai (Mar 9, 2007)

*"Beauty of Color is meant for anyone with a deep skintone. Black, Latin, Asian, Pacific Islander, Middle Eastern, or someone with a killer tan! Want to chat about the brands that work for you, or find out what works for others? Do you have a great tip to share? Whether it's Department or Drugstore brands, talk about it here! Please post your recommendation requests in the proper forum."*

I think the constant moving of posts could easily be addressed by having a Recommendations subforum in this section as others said. The requests for very specific BoC recs are put in this forum because the OPs want a response from people who frequent BoC.


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