# Talk to me.



## Janice (Sep 24, 2009)

Hey you!

Okay, so I've been getting alot of emails lately about the tone of the forum being different. I talked to these people a little, and I felt that if those few were motivated enough to send me a email then maybe there are more of you out there who feel the same way. 

I've been away from the forum quite a bit over the past few months due to my personal life taking a nose dive. Basically I've only been able to take care of administrative tasks lately, so I don't really have a pulse on the people so to speak right now. 

Is there something different that the general population is having a hard time adjusting to? Has our policy of being able to talk openly somehow changed? Are people feeling alot of pressure from certain individuals? Talk to me, let's see if I can help. 

Feel free to send me a PM or email, you can even call me or just post your feelings here. I ask that if you are going to point fingers, please send me a private message so that things don't get bent out of shape. 

I can't promise I can change things overnight, but I want to at least understand what's going on here. When I can understand the problem, maybe I can help work things out.  

Let's talk.


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## gildedangel (Sep 25, 2009)

I haven't noticed a difference in the tone of the forum, but then again I am oblivious to a lot of things! I don't feel that anyone is acting differently, but perhaps there was a different tone to the forum before I joined. I still feel as though I can talk openly and share my feelings and opinions without being judged or hated, in fact I get great advice. Perhaps I am being oblivious to the problem?


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## panda0410 (Sep 25, 2009)

Not really sure? I cant say I've seen a huge change in the forum tone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





What I have noticed, however, is a lot of people (myself included) have been absent for a period/s, and that there have been a few *holes* in the regular community. I'm not sure if thats made a difference or not to the way things flow in general, I really cant see why it would. But perhaps that might be contributing to the way other users view the forums?


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## TISH1124 (Sep 25, 2009)

^^ I agree with both of the above...I too have noticed not as much activity from past "anchor" members, mods, advisors etc....But the flow seems to be generally the same IMO. There will never be any group of people that will agree on everything but I think there are great opinions and point of views voiced on the forum at even given time.


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## Vixxan (Sep 27, 2009)

I have seen a big change in parts of the forum since I joined.  I spend most of my time here in the recycle bin and it's a different breed of seller posting now.  Before there was not a lot of bad deal (stealing) but now there seems to be a lot more theft going, it almost feels like the Wild West in there.  There are a lot of sellers that post items and don't respond to the buyers.  There are sellers posting items and selling the same items multiple times. Also, there are sellers taking money for items then shipping the items weeks later without telling the buyer that they won’t be getting their items for weeks. The downside to this is the buyer doesn’t feel they are going to get the item so the buyer files a PayPal claim.  

Here is an example of what it’s been like.  Three weeks ago I did 3 deals in recycle bin. 
1. The sellers said this one got lost in the mail and I still don't have the item or my money.
2. This one the seller out right stole from me. Has not responded to any of my pm’s or message left in her for post since she got paid.
3. This one I actually got the product.

Those are real bad odds (1 out of 3) and it seems to be happening more and more. I have been thinking about what can be done to clean it up.  A few ideas: 

1. Listing must state the location of the product, USA, China, etc. 
2. Ask buyers to post what items they purchased from the seller in the seller's sale post to prevent the seller from selling the same items multiple times.
3. Seller must post when they plan to ship the items once they are paid for.
4. If the seller fails to complete a (one) sale after you have been given proof that the seller has been paid then the seller’s sale post is locked. It is my understanding that a sale post is locked after 3 bad Itrader remarks if that is the case then this is allowing a thief to create two additional victims.
5. If you have a PayPal account you can print shipping labels through PayPal with deliver confirmation for 20 cents extra.  I don't think you can make this mandatory but it would be nice for both buyer and seller to have this.

  Last but not least.  There have been a few sellers that have stole a lot of money from our members and it really bothers me that they can steal from us and still be active members on this forum.  I think if they are going to steal from the members here they should be kicked off this forum. It’s a slap in the face to see them log on everyday as if nothing ever happened.  

  I don’t think you can protect the members here from thieves but I do think that we can do a few things to try to protect ourselves.  A few more rules may make is less appealing to try to pull a fast one.


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## franimal (Sep 27, 2009)

I definitely think the tone has changed over the years. I have seen a lot of the older members participating less because they feel ignored  and there are really cliquey groups here, though I don't think that is something you can really change. I think some people are also really rude, to the point of attacking new members who have honest questions about collections. I don't think you can change that, I think it is just a matter of the personalities on the forum, but it is noticeable. A lot of these same people seem to come and go, the vibe here seems to change often.


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## nunu (Sep 27, 2009)

I have actually been thinking about this lately. The "tone" has changed quite a bit, especially in the past year. It's isn't as friendly as it used to be. I have to agree with the above, lately the rudeness level has increased.


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## TISH1124 (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *franimal* 

 
_I definitely think the tone has changed over the years. I have seen a lot of the older members participating less because they feel ignored and there are really cliquey groups here, though I don't think that is something you can really change. *I think some people are also really rude, to the point of attacking new members who have honest questions about collections.* I don't think you can change that, I think it is just a matter of the personalities on the forum, but it is noticeable. A lot of these same people seem to come and go, the vibe here seems to change often. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 








 What some members don't seem to understand is that all of us don't have time to read every single page of every single collection....I mean I say Great for those who do ... But for those of us who don't...expect repeat questions...If you don't want to answer then don't let someone else who doesn't mind answer...But the rudeness can be toned down I agree


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## RedRibbon (Sep 27, 2009)

I haven't been here for that long really so I can't say if the tone is changing and as gildedangel said, I too would be oblivious to any ongoing change in tone.  

I have noticed however that there have been one or two posters who simply stuck around to antagonise people and then bugger off.  I can't remember names but there was that one user who was going off on one in the MJ tribute thread and in the thread about hitting other people's kids.  I never noticed anyone being purposly antagonistic before that and haven't noticed anyone being so rude since it. 

I haven't personally faced a "rude" person on here but I'd just ignore them if they tried to be rude because although their input is not productive, arguing back is stupid and just as unproductive IMO.


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## gildedangel (Sep 27, 2009)

In response to Vixxan's post about the recycle bin forum; I think that perhaps it is time to up the requirements for participating in buying and selling here. Posting 20 times doesn't take that long and it doesn't seem to be enough to deter bad sellers. Maybe the posting needs to be upped, or you have to have a certain number of thank yous or something. Something that would deter a bad seller from just creating a new account. We should also force all transactions through paypal so that if something goes wrong it can be filed through them. I also agree on the point of suspending an account if they have maybe 2 locked posts until both issues are resolved. Thoughts?


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## RedRibbon (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *gildedangel* 

 
_In response to Vixxan's post about the recycle bin forum; I think that perhaps it is time to up the requirements for participating in buying and selling here. Posting 20 times doesn't take that long and it doesn't seem to be enough to deter bad sellers. Maybe the posting needs to be upped, or you have to have a certain number of thank yous or something. Something that would deter a bad seller from just creating a new account. We should also force all transactions through paypal so that if something goes wrong it can be filed through them. I also agree on the point of suspending an account if they have maybe 2 locked posts until both issues are resolved. Thoughts?_

 
I think these are all good ideas, I was thinking maybe an IP ban or something? Unless that's too harsh because I know some people can share IP addresses.

Maybe it should be something like you have to be a member for a month or something and you have to have been thanked for a certain amount of posts? That would stop fly by night merchants.  They won't be able to make one post and sell and they will have to contribute and get themselve known (via the thanks).


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## TISH1124 (Sep 27, 2009)

I think the Clearance Bin is kind of a "luck of the draw" to be honest...all new sellers are not dishonest and some old sellers go bad...I try to buy from established members only because I have learned my lesson by being duped and sold fake items....Not to discriminate against newer honest sellers...But I would rather just be more selective and know I am dealing with a honest seller than get hit over the wallet by someone who may not be. You can normally tell when a person is coming on just to sell..they get their 20 posts in by posting generic nothings and then their sales thread goes up. It would be hard to moderate or control a Sales Forum IMO because you can't control dishonest people...My advice is ...If the deal sounds too good to be true it probably is...and if you really want true MAC items and want to know you are getting what you pay for go to MAC or the CCO, get a CP from a trusted seller and don't depend on the Clearance Bin.  That is just IMO based on my Clearance Bin shopping experience


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## Vixxan (Sep 27, 2009)

There have been a lot more established members ripping people off than new members. Two of worst cases of theft that I have seen in the recycle bin have been from long time members (bloodmittens and smith).  I think the recyle bin is a good option for those of us that do not have a MAC or CCO store available to us.  The recycle bin has been my only option for getting discontinued items from long pasted collections.


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## cazgh (Sep 27, 2009)

Hey I'm new this year and just thought I'd say I really like it here - I like joining in discussions and the advice that you can tap into.

I have no complaints and am really happy to have found Specktra...


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## MACATTAK (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_








 What some members don't seem to understand is that all of us don't have time to read every single page of every single collection....I mean I say Great for those who do ... But for those of us who don't...expect repeat questions...If you don't want to answer then don't let someone else who doesn't mind answer...But the rudeness can be toned down I agree_

 

I agree.  I also have seen this in other threads such as The B2M thread.  Some seem to get very upset with having to repeat answers.  Maybe those who get irritated with the thread should take some away from it.


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## MACATTAK (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *gildedangel* 

 
_In response to Vixxan's post about the recycle bin forum; I think that perhaps it is time to up the requirements for participating in buying and selling here. Posting 20 times doesn't take that long and it doesn't seem to be enough to deter bad sellers. Maybe the posting needs to be upped, or you have to have a certain number of thank yous or something. Something that would deter a bad seller from just creating a new account. We should also force all transactions through paypal so that if something goes wrong it can be filed through them. I also agree on the point of suspending an account if they have maybe 2 locked posts until both issues are resolved. Thoughts?_

 
There are some really good new sellers, as well as new bad sellers.  Just because someone is an experienced seller does not mean that they are all good.  I've been surprised a few times this year by experienced sellers ripping multiple people off.  I think that it's not just limited to a new seller, and I think that if people want to do bad they will find a way no matter how many posts they need.  I don't know what the solution is, but I don't think this problem is only limited to new sellers.  I do agree with suspending people that are ripping people off though.


Just read Vixxan's post....I definitely agree with you!


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## nichollecaren (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MACATTAK* 

 
_I agree. I also have seen this in other threads such as The B2M thread. Some seem to get very upset with having to repeat answers. Maybe those who get irritated with the thread should take some away from it._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_ What some members don't seem to understand is that all of us don't have time to read every single page of every single collection....I mean I say Great for those who do ... But for those of us who don't...expect repeat questions...If you don't want to answer then don't let someone else who doesn't mind answer...But the rudeness can be toned down I agree_

 

I agree with this...I dont bother to ask questions in these threads, because I've seen how some ppl are answered and I really dont have time to go back when the thread is in excess of 50 pages.

I've noticed a trend in the FOTD pages also, where people just compliment and hardly offer CC. I understand that its because the CC isnt taken well sometimes. I was saddened by this, because I would love some, but I have learnt not to expect it. Its bad that a few people have changed the tone for some of us that just want to learn.

All in all though I have found Specktra to be an awesome resource of information. I believe the swatch threads are invaulable, and there are a lot of members who do a LOT to contribute. It reallly is to be commended, because swatching is HARD.


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## rei181 (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_








 What some members don't seem to understand is that all of us don't have time to read every single page of every single collection....I mean I say Great for those who do ... But for those of us who don't...expect repeat questions...If you don't want to answer then don't *let someone else who doesn't mind answer*...But the rudeness can be toned down I agree_

 
Thank you Tish. I am new and have been hesitant to ask questions because I haven't had time to read back 15 pages. I have read some posts where individuals have been lashed out at because of repeat questions, which is cause for my hesitation. I know not everyone on specktra is rude and it is only a few, so as you said let someone else answer!


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## nunu (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nichollecaren* 

 
_I agree with this...I dont bother to ask questions in these threads, because I've seen how some ppl are answered and I really dont have time to go back when the thread is in excess of 50 pages.

I've noticed a trend in the FOTD pages also, where people just compliment and hardly offer CC. I understand that its because the CC isnt taken well sometimes. I was saddened by this, because I would love some, but I have learnt not to expect it. Its bad that a few people have changed the tone for some of us that just want to learn.

All in all though I have found Specktra to be an awesome resource of information. I believe the swatch threads are invaulable, and there are a lot of members who do a LOT to contribute. It reallly is to be commended, because swatching is HARD._

 
I agree with you on the first part. I myself have been recently scared to ask questions in colour collection threads because i know someone is going to bite my head off. I've seen it happen to a few memebers and i felt bad for them. It never used to be like this before.
Now, one would reply rudely by saying "i've answered this a few pages back and won't answer again". Well since you replied then you might as well just answer or just ignore it and let someone else answer.

Also, i dread going to collection threads since sometimes the thread explodes over off topic convo's and you have like 8 pages over night. I try to read what i can since i don't want to miss out on any poissible dupes or a way of using a new product etc...

About the FOTD part, some people don't like to see and CC, even if they do ask for it and that's why I mostly refrain from it.


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## Susanne (Sep 27, 2009)

I am still daily on specktra, most of the time in the colour discussion threads. You can find a single rude post sometimes, yes, but that is not new I guess.

I do read every post of a discussion thread, even if it has 150 pages, but I agree that it is hard to keep the overview, especially on product reviews. And I see the tone can change if members ask questions about a product again and again.

I thought today:

Could we give some of our MAC MAs like Erin more space for her opinion and reviews? Then she doesn't have to answer a question 20 times in a discussion thread and members don't have to ask if they can not find what they want. We all love her swatches after an update, her comparison pics and thoughts. Could we collect them at one place?

I will try to explain to you my idea:

Every colour story has three threads here:

The official color story threads, closed for posts. The discussion thread and the swatch thread.

The official color story thread is parted into three posts: 
product names and descriptions, face charts and product pics, all posted by Jenn.
Could we include a fourth part? In which a MA like Erin writes her reviews on the products? Comparisons, thoughts? Maybe she sends a PM to a mod who can post it there?

Can you understand what I want to say? I think that would be a great overview for all members in just one post, not everywhere in 200 pages in the discussion thread.

Sorry, my English is not the best tonight.


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## TISH1124 (Sep 27, 2009)

^I understand what you are saying...However there are a lot of simple questions that are asked that does not require a MA to answer....that people get upset about....They are not directed just at a MA but at anyone who knows the answer....For instance....When is this collection launching? That is not necessarily a question that a MA has to answer ....nor is it directed just at a MA but a question in general that people are getting lashed out for asking....I totally understand that it gets frustrating answering the same questions over and over...If you have answered it and don't want to again...Don't...let someone else who deosn't mind (which is the most of us) answer it so that person gets the info they need. It is not necessary that people read 150 pages of a thread if they do not have the time or the notion to...half the time we do not just talk about collections anyway we talk about everything...a lot of people don't care to read all of that and they shouldn't have to just because one person or others do.

But a lead page to collections would be nice....stating everything about the products...overview etc...But be available to many MA's that we love and respect the opinions of


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## aziajs (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nunu* 

 
_I agree with you on the first part. I myself have been recently scared to ask questions in colour collection threads because i know someone is going to bite my head off. I've seen it happen to a few memebers and i felt bad for them. It never used to be like this before.
Now, one would reply rudely by saying "i've answered this a few pages back and won't answer again". Well since you replied then you might as well just answer or just ignore it and let someone else answer.

Also, i dread going to collection threads since sometimes the thread explodes over off topic convo's and you have like 8 pages over night. I try to read what i can since i don't want to miss out on any poissible dupes or a way of using a new product etc...

About the FOTD part, some people don't like to see and CC, even if they do ask for it and that's why I mostly refrain from it._

 
I agree on all 3 counts.  I had noticed about a year or two ago that the tone changed and there was just a lot of aggression and little patience.  It just seems to escalate very quickly.  It was weird to see things go from being so mellow and inviting to seeing people be so rude.  Lately, I can't say that I've seen it as much because I'm not on as much.  Now you only see 4 pages when you click on "new posts" so once I skim that I am done.  But, this was a major issue I had at one time because it doesn't make sense to bite people's heads off.  I, personally, rarely read discussion threads because I don't have the time or the patience to scroll through 102 pages of comments.  The information is too easily buried within the discussions.  Then if you ask a question people get an attitude.  It's nonsense.  But the discussion thread isn't the only place where I have seen people snapped at like that.    

As for the FOTDs, you do have to ask for CC.  Simple as that.  I think you get what you ask for.  I will say that there are a lot of people who don't know how to give constructive criticism.  They can criticize but there isn't anything constructive about it.  So, to that point I'm glad people tend to keep their opinions to themselves.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_But a lead page to collections would be nice....stating everything about the products...overview etc...But be available to many MA's that we love and respect the opinions of_

 
I was thinking the same thing about the lead page.  Some kind of page that could highlight some of the important things about a collection or address FAQs about a collection.  I just don't know how possible it would be to create such a page and who would update it.

The problem with creating a forum where MAs can review and evaluate is that you don't know who is a MA.  Yes, we know Erine, Ruby Woo, IIErinII (I think that's her name) and some others but there are a lot of others on here and you don't want to exclude people.  You also don't want everybody and their mama reviewing and commenting.  I could also see that area getting very clique-y.


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## RedRibbon (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_
But a lead page to collections would be nice....stating everything about the products...overview etc...But be available to many MA's that we love and respect the opinions of_

 
I was going to suggest this, a page which stated which products were going to be released, possible swatches if MAC do pre-releases, date of release in differing countries.  Or maybe the admin can just edit teh first post with this information as it comes out so that people don't have to trawl through a whole thread to find stuff out and those who get annoyed at having to ask questions over and over again won't do so.


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## TISH1124 (Sep 27, 2009)

Yeah like a Most Commonly asked question page about the collection
Ex:Style Black
Launch Dates:
Does the Greasepaint Sticks compare to shade sticks
Are they eye safe 
Glimmerglass, e/s, l/s, etc : Are there close dupes in the perm line
etc etc


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## RedRibbon (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_Yeah like a Most Commonly asked question page about the collection
Ex:Style Black
Launch Dates:
Does the Greasepaint Sticks compare to shade sticks
Are they eye safe 
Glimmerglass, e/s, l/s, etc : Are there close dupes in the perm line
etc etc_

 
Yep, that kinda thing would be perfect.

The dupes in the perm line would be excellent!


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## aziajs (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_Yeah like a Most Commonly asked question page about the collection
Ex:Style Black
Launch Dates:
Does the Greasepaint Sticks compare to shade sticks
Are they eye safe 
Glimmerglass, e/s, l/s, etc : Are there close dupes in the perm line
etc etc_

 
Exactly.  You just need someone who keeps up with the threads to update that area.  Just throwing it out there but if Susanne, who is already an advisor, is active in the discussion thread and reads all of the comments already perhaps this is something she and Janice can discuss making a reality.


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## nunu (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *RedRibbon* 

 
_ 
The dupes in the perm line would be excellent!_

 
That's an excellent idea.
I think this could be done on the first post of the colour collection thread.


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## MzzRach (Sep 27, 2009)

I totally agree with doing something like an FAQs for the colour collection threads.  Not that I mind when questions are repeated in these threads, since frankly I (and I am sure many others) are not able to read every single page/post of the super fast/busy colour threads.

An FAQ "quick hit" companion thread/sticky, if this was able to be implemented, would be very helpful for all I think.  Both for those who provide the information (so they do not have to repeat themselves) and for those who want "at a glance" collection info.  

Thanks for starting this thread and facilitating this dialogue, Janice.


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## RedRibbon (Sep 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nunu* 

 
_That's an excellent idea.
I think this could be done on the first post of the colour collection thread._

 

I can't take credit for that as Tish would whoop my behind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but it is a great idea.

I agree with the idea of having the mod who "does" that section being in charge of amending the first page of the thread.  I also think it should say that all ACCURATE information is contained in the first post and the first post only as there can be a lot of misinformation on here (not maliciously or anything) but people hear things from others incorrectly and the threads end up with one correct answer and about five incorrect ones.


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## Shimmer (Sep 27, 2009)

I *know* I haven't been as active within the forums, and as a moderator, I should be. 
I'm sorry people feel the site is more rude than ever before, I hope we can fix that.


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## panda0410 (Sep 28, 2009)

^^I dont just think its activity, though I havent noticed a huge shift in tone from general members, advisors or most of the mods for that matter. Time away from forums is just as important as time on them IMHO, and to be perfectly honest - we all have lives that would see us NOT on here every day and thats both perfectly normal and probably also necessary. I dont think you should be apologising Jamie for not always being here, thats part of the the point of having more than one moderator, so that you can swing away when you need to, forum burnout happens!!

As far as rudeness goes, well Ok... so I have my head covered here and I'm ready to dodge the bricks...LOL... but seriously when I say this I mean it - I havent noticed so much rudeness coming from everyday members - that suprised me a little I guess, but I dont trawl the collection threads at length either where prob most of the discussion takes place, and to some extent I also feel like personality clashes and forum burnout are inevitable at times - its just the nature of the beast. But there are a few moderators here who are rude to the point of being downright awful, not just repeatedly, but consistently, _and they have been like that since the day I joined_ - a few years ago now. I have hesitated for some time in being open about this, some of the moderators in particular are rude frequently to members here - and that has _never_ been any different IMHO.

TBH if we are complaining about rudeness from members then perhaps the mods in question need to take note of their own tone in the forum. They set the example and if thats the standard to be set then I CAN say that I'm honestly not surprised if others have seen a swing in general members tone as well.


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## aziajs (Sep 28, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *panda0410* 

 
_TBH if we are complaining about rudeness from members then perhaps the mods in question need to take note of their own tone in the forum. They set the example and if thats the standard to be set then I CAN say that I'm honestly not surprised if others have seen a swing in general members tone as well._

 
Very true.


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## Susanne (Sep 28, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_But a lead page to collections would be nice....stating everything about the products...overview etc...But be available to many MA's that we love and respect the opinions of_

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_Yeah like a Most Commonly asked question page about the collection
Ex:Style Black
Launch Dates:
Does the Greasepaint Sticks compare to shade sticks
Are they eye safe 
Glimmerglass, e/s, l/s, etc : Are there close dupes in the perm line
etc etc_

 





 That is what I have thought!


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## Susanne (Sep 28, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *aziajs* 

 
_Exactly.  You just need someone who keeps up with the threads to update that area.  Just throwing it out there but if Susanne, who is already an advisor, is active in the discussion thread and reads all of the comments already perhaps this is something she and Janice can discuss making a reality._

 
I would love to help here!


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## TISH1124 (Oct 3, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *panda0410* 

 
_^^I dont just think its activity, though I havent noticed a huge shift in tone from general members, advisors or most of the mods for that matter. Time away from forums is just as important as time on them IMHO, and to be perfectly honest - we all have lives that would see us NOT on here every day and thats both perfectly normal and probably also necessary. I dont think you should be apologising Jamie for not always being here, thats part of the the point of having more than one moderator, so that you can swing away when you need to, forum burnout happens!!

As far as rudeness goes, well Ok... so I have my head covered here and I'm ready to dodge the bricks...LOL... but seriously when I say this I mean it - I havent noticed so much rudeness coming from everyday members - that suprised me a little I guess, but I dont trawl the collection threads at length either where prob most of the discussion takes place, and to some extent I also feel like personality clashes and forum burnout are inevitable at times - its just the nature of the beast. But there are a few moderators here who are rude to the point of being downright awful, not just repeatedly, but consistently, and they have been like that since the day I joined - a few years ago now. I have hesitated for some time in being open about this, some of the moderators in particular are rude frequently to members here - and that has never been any different IMHO.

*TBH if we are complaining about rudeness from members then perhaps the mods in question need to take note of their own tone in the forum. They set the example and if thats the standard to be set then I CAN say that I'm honestly not surprised if others have seen a swing in general members tone as well.*_


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## shootout (Oct 3, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nichollecaren* 

 
_I've noticed a trend in the FOTD pages also, where people just compliment and hardly offer CC. I understand that its because the CC isnt taken well sometimes. I was saddened by this, because I would love some, but I have learnt not to expect it. Its bad that a few people have changed the tone for some of us that just want to learn._

 
I try to give CC when I can, but after dealing with some members becoming defensive when I suggest something (even when they ask for CC) I've decided it's just easier to comment on what I like and move on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *panda0410* 

 
_But there are a few moderators here who are rude to the point of being downright awful, not just repeatedly, but consistently, and they have been like that since the day I joined - a few years ago now. I have hesitated for some time in being open about this, some of the moderators in particular are rude frequently to members here - and that has never been any different IMHO.

TBH if we are complaining about rudeness from members then perhaps the mods in question need to take note of their own tone in the forum. They set the example and if thats the standard to be set then I CAN say that I'm honestly not surprised if others have seen a swing in general members tone as well._

 
AGREED! I have noticed a few mods being extemely rude to members, and often over little things.


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## Janice (Oct 5, 2009)

Before we take the mod issue any further in a public forum, I would like to ask that from this point further you PM me with your concerns about staff. These ladies spend their personal time on the site volunteering their savvy in the areas they moderate. I personally rely heavily on them for those duties as the forum generates an insane amount of content on a daily basis that I have no hope of moderating/administrating alone. Because the moderators see so much of the content I can understand some things might become redundant. Also since they spend so much of their personal time working on the forums there is a genuine investment in the forum of their part. Not making any excuses, but trying to give you a different angle of viewing the situation. I'm totally open to listening to you and sharing it with the staff though, let's just do that one on one.

Susanne, let's the get ball rolling on this color story additional post idea. Send me a PM outlining the format you propose and we will work with you on implementing it. 

Thanks everyone for the input, please continue contributing to this thread if you feel you can add something.


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## panda0410 (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Janice* 

 
_Before we take the mod issue any further in a public forum, I would like to ask that from this point further you PM me with your concerns about staff. These ladies spend their personal time on the site volunteering their savvy in the areas they moderate. I personally rely heavily on them for those duties as the forum generates an insane amount of content on a daily basis that I have no hope of moderating/administrating alone. *Because the moderators see so much of the content I can understand some things might become redundant. Also since they spend so much of their personal time working on the forums there is a genuine investment in the forum of their part. Not making any excuses, but trying to give you a different angle of viewing the situation.* I'm totally open to listening to you and sharing it with the staff though, let's just do that one on one.

Susanne, let's the get ball rolling on this color story additional post idea. Send me a PM outlining the format you propose and we will work with you on implementing it. 

Thanks everyone for the input, please continue contributing to this thread if you feel you can add something._

 
I have PM you. 

I want to make a point though that redundancy does not warrant a snap of the tongue... regardless of how many times the issue is raised. Thats part of the job of moderating AFAIC, and if the mod is unable to control that, or deal with those pressures then he/she is best to let someone else deal with it on the day. 

Personal investment I understand, and I think that ALL of us appreciate the work the mods put into the forum, there is simply no denying that. But personal investment also does not give any moderator the right to speak to members here the way several of them have done in the past. IMHO if personal investment encompsses that model of behaviour then thats an investment the forum can do without. MHO.


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## rbella (Oct 9, 2009)

Well, I'll be frank.  I used to love, love, love it here.  Everyday.  Now, I don't.  I feel that the site has become incredibly "cliquish", which is going to happen, but it annoys me that if you insert your opinion on a topic, you have to wait for the thunderous bitch-slapping of disapproval from groups of people that stick together.

I guess there is no way to change that, it is what it is.  But the color threads, in my opinion, are the most bothersome.  God forbid should you dislike anything or state an opinion regarding how something didn't suit your needs.  If you aren't part of the "clique", forget it.  You are up shitcreek and either you are going to be completely ignored with absolutely no productive discussion, or you will have the "all-buy, MAC rocks, nothing sucks" group post about 50 posts on how beautiful it was and you must be crazy because it worked for them.  It is annoying and not every person has the money nor the skin-tone to own every single MAC item that has ever launched or existed. 

In addition, if you choose to like the most butt-ugly shadow in a product launch, well, it should be your friggin' prerogative.  Who cares?  It just seems like those threads are so damn univiting.  Especially to a new person.  I'm an advisor and feel uncomfortable in there.

There are some extremely opinionated people on this board, and the bullying of unpopular posters is getting old.  This was a fun, happy place where we could all share our thoughts and excitement.  It doesn't feel that way to me anymore.

I'm sorry Janice, I know this is not anything you could prevent, it is simply because of the combination of personalities on the board these days.  It feels like high school.  I don't know what the answer is, it is a public forum.  I guess I just wish that rather than having 5 people who are opinionated and quite abrupt on the boards, we had more people with balls willing to stand up to them.

That's my take on it.


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## Simply Elegant (Oct 9, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Well, I'll be frank.  I used to love, love, love it here.  Everyday.  Now, I don't.  I feel that the site has become incredibly "cliquish", which is going to happen, but it annoys me that if you insert your opinion on a topic, you have to wait for the thunderous bitch-slapping of disapproval from groups of people that stick together.

I guess there is no way to change that, it is what it is.  But the color threads, in my opinion, are the most bothersome.  God forbid should you dislike anything or state an opinion regarding how something didn't suit your needs.  If you aren't part of the "clique", forget it.  You are up shitcreek and either you are going to be completely ignored with absolutely no productive discussion, or you will have the "all-buy, MAC rocks, nothing sucks" group post about 50 posts on how beautiful it was and you must be crazy because it worked for them.  It is annoying and not every person has the money nor the skin-tone to own every single MAC item that has ever launched or existed. 

In addition, if you choose to like the most butt-ugly shadow in a product launch, well, it should be your friggin' prerogative.  Who cares?  It just seems like those threads are so damn univiting.  Especially to a new person.  I'm an advisor and feel uncomfortable in there.

There are some extremely opinionated people on this board, and the bullying of unpopular posters is getting old.  This was a fun, happy place where we could all share our thoughts and excitement.  It doesn't feel that way to me anymore.

I'm sorry Janice, I know this is not anything you could prevent, it is simply because of the combination of personalities on the board these days.  It feels like high school.  I don't know what the answer is, it is a public forum.  I guess I just wish that rather than having 5 people who are opinionated and quite abrupt on the boards, we had more people with balls willing to stand up to them.

That's my take on it._

 
I wouldn't have said this myself, but I agree. 

I also agree that there is some rudeness about repeat questions and although I can see how it would get irritating at times when the answer is a couple of pages back, there's so much unrelated chatter to skim through so it's hard to tell how far back the answer is to your question if it was even asked already.


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## TISH1124 (Oct 9, 2009)

Rbella....Good Points....However I could ONLY wish it was just isolated to the Color Threads....Opinions that differ from the Majority as of late do Not seem to be welcomed anywhere....To have an opinion that differs is to be drug thru the mud, considered ignorant or condescending ...and I guess that is good if you like Mud...But some people don't care for the nasty stuff. Good debates used to be fun...Now they are down right attacking at times


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## rbella (Oct 9, 2009)

True, TISH.  I haven't been on in awhile.  Just went through and read some other areas of the forum.  I feel like every thread ends up in a bitch fight.  Why can't someone just state their damn opinion without someone else getting a bug up their ass?  

People with differing opinions who can have an open, honest and productive debate are called "adults".  Those who resort to throwing insults and name calling are "children".  There are a lot of "children" here.


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## Susanne (Oct 10, 2009)

I am still here every day since two years now and enjoy it. I can ignore posts that are "childish" if I go on in rbella's words.

But I wish: Please, "adults",  stay here!! Children may come and go, adults will stay.

It depends on every single one of us to change the atmosphere or to work against it I guess.


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## MzzRach (Oct 10, 2009)

I have to agree on the rudeness issue, especially in the colour collection threads, when repeat questions are asked. If repeat questions annoy someone, I think it would be better to just ignore that post instead of posting a reply chastising them or being sarcastic.

I am seeing this more and more and I find it really unpleasant. As we all know, there is a LOT if information on MAC colour collections and questions are bound to be repeated. Not everyone has time to read every post in every thread. I truly appreciate all the advance collection information that is brought to this forum, but I do not believe it warrants some of the rudeness I have noticed.


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## nunu (Oct 10, 2009)

Rbella i agree with everything that you've said.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Simply Elegant* 

 
_I wouldn't have said this myself, but I agree. 

I also agree that there is some rudeness about repeat questions and although I can see how it would get irritating at times when the answer is a couple of pages back, *there's so much unrelated chatter to skim through* so it's hard to tell how far back the answer is to your question if it was even asked already._

 
This is why i dislike clicking on the colour threads these days. You just want to read things related to the products, especially if you are tight for time.


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## euphrosyne_rose (Oct 10, 2009)

I've been a member little over a year and while I'm not on here everyday, I am on here pretty frequently. I was a member of a few other forums such as this and won't name names but had an awful experience with one and am totally bored by the other. None of them have given me the pleasure Specktra has and I know that whatever question I have will be answered and suggestions made if I ask b/c that's the kind of people that I have found on here-- willing to offer advice, counsel and friendship. 

Maybe b/c I'm not on here all of the time, I haven't noticed any "cliques" though I do notice that certain posters have some of the same people who reply time and time again and I've found that even when I post I get some of the same people replying but I don't see this as a "clique", just more that certain people have more of a repoire with some people than others. I've found cliques to be troublesome on another forum but not on here. 

The only thing that I've noticed that has changed (at least for me) is the Clearance Bin which other people have made comments about. My problem has been that I rarely get responses back about items people have inquired about on my sale thread and I find that to be pretty rude. If I ask a seller about an item and it turns out I don't want it or can't afford it, etc I make sure to reply back to let them know I am no longer interested. I've noticed the last couple of months that that courtesy isn't extended as much anymore, at least from my point of view. I've been PM'd about items to the point of being badgered about it and then when I am able to contact back or I've come down on the price or whatever the case may be, I get no reply back which irks me and then I'm back to square one on the selling. The other thing which isn't necessarily a big deal but it also sort of annoying is PM'ing back and forth with someone, have them finally agree on a price or decide they want something and then tell me they are out of the country when it clearly states on my thread that I don't ship outside the U.S but at that point, I feel like I have to still sell it to them b/c we have agreed on a price and are to the point of sending the invoice. I've also had a couple of people tell me, "Oh, well all I want is this and it's not that heavy so it won't cost much to ship it to me here". Most of this I've mostly noticed from newer members. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





All in all, Specktra is a great place and one of my favorite sites to visit. I am happy being on here and the only thing I would change would be guidelines for being able to access the Clearance bin. As of now, if nothing changed, I'd still be a member and still spend time on the site. The advice and comaraderie are valuable to me and I appreciate any and all comments I receive, as well as the information provided here. I look forward to seeing any changes that may came up on the Color Collection and other forums!


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## Tashona Helena (Oct 11, 2009)

I don't notice any cliques.  I used to notice the whole "people snapping when a repeat question/simple question is asked".  I think they could be a little nicer, I mean granted it's not that hard, trust me I work in retail (and I know the people they might be talking about do or have before) and you get asked a ton of repetitive questions a day, it's not hard to say, "yes/no/one sentence" to answer the question and move on with your merry day.

I've been joined since 2005, I haven't really been active since last year, but I did used to skim the pages when I was in high school.  I admit the tone has changed.  But granted specktra isn't as bad as other forums I've been on before, and it's does look like it will be either.  

The clearance bin scares me.  Especially as a previous poster mentioned I've noticed people in the past who have scammed people still posting and even though it has nothing to do with me it kinda angers me.  I have no tolerance for this type of stuff.  I know life gets hard, but it is not that hard to drop by the post office or schedule a pick up.  I live in the boonies and it is not that hard.  You get their money, you give them their stuff.  It's just said that people are getting ripped off in these times, you want to come to a community that you trust.  I haven't really saw any problems lately but I hope something is done so it doesn't start happening again.

Oh and the CC, I myself have been guilty of it in the past getting offended, and I apologize.  When people are new to it they kinda don't understand that it's ok to get help.  I was like that for a while until I met a friend IRL who was honest with me and helped me understand what I was doing wrong.  You just got to respect that some people just aren't open yet to "strangers" over the web telling them what they're doing wrong.  And besides its kinda hard to explain to them over pictures so I understand how it may come off wrong.  It was easier for me to have my friend actually touch my hand and show me and talk daily about make up.  People just need to warm up probably and not just get hit with the CC upfront ya know?  Cause I think half of the people might not know what to do with the CC and get embarrased and upset.  I know I didn't know what to do with my first CC. 

I noticed on a hair forum that the newbies have their own little section and people are free to come in and help them and I think that's wonderful.  It's kinda hard to get throw out in two the sea with the sharks sometimes.


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## spectrolite (Oct 11, 2009)

I don't participate in some areas of the forum as much as I used to although I still visit the site every day. I have noticed the cliqueyness in the Colour Collection threads and while it is annoying it is not as annoying as the off topic conversations there. Sorry if I offend anyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I used to love going to there to talk about the upcoming collections but now its just page after page of conversations about pets, or whats going on in everyone's personal life which honestly I'm really not interested in reading - in a Colour Collection thread. Those topics are more suitable for the Chatter forum or in Private Messages and I don't understand why the mods don't steer people back on topic. Some of the threads turn into these monsters that are a hundred pages long and I dont want to have to sift through the chatter to get to the collection related comments. So I just stopped reading those threads. If I want to discuss the collections I do it in the Beauty of Colour forum because the collection related threads there are pretty much on topic which is great.

I still really enjoy other areas of the site though. I love the Clearance Bin!! I've not had any issues so far and every one of my experiences has been really positive. I also love Mac Chat because there are sometimes some good ideas in there and there are some threads that are really fun and helpful. The Swatch forum is also amazing and helpful and I like contributing to that when I can. Overall I still enjoy visiting Specktra and will continue to do so.


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## TISH1124 (Oct 11, 2009)

I will 100% admit that I am one of the members that is guilty of personal chatter inside the Collection Discussion Forums....I will make an effort to make sure I stick to the topic, I was unaware it was bothersome to other members...But now that it has been brought to my attention I will try to refrain from doing so.


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## DirtyPlum (Oct 11, 2009)

Hmmmm... really interesting thread.

I myself, have found that I use the site less.  I have also felt the need to change the way I write and have removed some of my 'personal' information... therefore using it less.

I'm a MAC MA and at the beginning was happy to express this in threads and as part of my avatar.  I then found that what I was saying was either being taken as gospel or it was being used against me as an attack.  I began to feel uncomfortable with both so decided to stop metioning it.  

I think its important that there are a number of different MAs on here (just as it is on counter) to ensure the very wide demographic is being served.  Each MA has different views, opinions and skill level - but also - just cos we work for MAC doesnt make us the experts in makeup.  Yes, we may have the latest on MAC products, know how to do things the MAC way but there are some super talented/creative non-MUAs on here who just as knowledgeable. I guess we can all help in some way, to ensure particular individuals are not glorified  in any way to represent a particular brand.  Surely theres too much pressure on them to take on that role, but will also help with preventing the 'what-i-say-goes' feel that I sometimes get (esp in colour collection threads).

Another contributory factor - is the cliquey tone that others have already expressed, and I dont frequent Specktra so much these days so can comment on whether it still occurs.  But there is a sense of cliques who frequent the site and nearly every thread going and and ONLY their opinions are the ones that seem to go... lo and behold anyone else mention something that opposes the clique.  Ugh, I find that really boring and off putting.

Noone wants to walk into a crowded room, on their own.  I guess, like Susanne said above - we all make this place what it is and are the only ones who can make it better.  Its brilliant that a thread like this has been recognised and I look forward to seeing some recommendations/conclusions from it.  

More importantly I'd like to see everyone making a conscious effort to ignore the trolls, keep on topic as much as poss, open our minds to others views and more importantly ...empathic to other posters??

xxx


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## coachkitten (Oct 11, 2009)

I also am one that of those members that is guilty of personal chatter in the color collection threads.  Although I see how we should keep it on topic I also don't really see the harm in the personal chatter but that is just my opinion.  I have actually gotten to know people pretty well by the personal chatter in those forums which I have really enjoyed.  I also don't know how that would ever really be enforced.  I will though try to make more of an effort to keep my personal chatter to a minimum.

Specktra has always been a place that I have loved coming to and spending my time.  I first came to Specktra for my love of MAC but I stayed because of the wonderful people.  I would agree that things feel a bit "different" around here but I can't put my finger on why I feel that way.  Maybe it is because a lot of the more senior members of the site don't really post anymore or even come on the site.  That makes me sad.

Or it could be the negative tone that some members use in regards to new members on the site.  I do read mostly all of the color collection pages and I still don't remember the answers to everything.  I know that if I do know an answer to a question I will answer it nicely and move on even if it is a topic that has been covered many times.  I realize that most people don't have the time to go through the 20 new pages that they have missed while living their lives.  

I really enjoy Specktra and I will continue to keep coming here.  I am going to keep on being positive to everyone on this site and try to make this a better atmosphere for everyone.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I want to be part of the solution not the problem.


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## clslvr6spd (Oct 12, 2009)

I am too guilty of personal chatter in the color forums & like the others have said I am sorry, but saw no harm in doing so. 

I have been on this site just about everyday for the past few years & attitudes change, but I say ignore it! It has been a bit different, but like Katie has said, I can't quite put my finger on it.
I miss all the senior members as well!

I love this place & I love the people that contribute to Sprecktra!
Hopefully a resolution will happen soon & Specktra will be as awesome place to others new & old again.


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## Susanne (Oct 12, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *coachkitten* 

 
_I also am one that of those members that is guilty of personal chatter in the color collection threads.  Although I see how we should keep it on topic I also don't really see the harm in the personal chatter but that is just my opinion.  I have actually gotten to know people pretty well by the personal chatter in those forums which I have really enjoyed.  I also don't know how that would ever really be enforced.  I will though try to make more of an effort to keep my personal chatter to a minimum._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *clslvr6spd* 

 
_I am too guilty of personal chatter in the color forums & like the others have said I am sorry, but saw no harm in doing so._

 





 I love the personal chatter with all of you. This is what specktra makes so special, not just MAC or beauty talk, but also seeing the people who are behind the MAC customers.
If we want to keep it to a minimum in the color discussion threads, come back to the bimbo thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *clslvr6spd* 

 
_I have been on this site just about everyday for the past few years & attitudes change, but I say ignore it! It has been a bit different, but like Katie has said, I can't quite put my finger on it.
I miss all the senior members as well!

I love this place & I love the people that contribute to Sprecktra!
Hopefully a resolution will happen soon & Specktra will be as awesome place to others new & old again._

 








 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *coachkitten* 

 
_I want to be part of the solution not the problem._


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## Susanne (Oct 12, 2009)

http://www.specktra.net/forum/f179/bimbos-unite-98741/


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## banana1234 (Oct 12, 2009)

as a pretty new member to this forum, i've only really been posting for maybe 2 months tops, i have felt totally welcome. i have stated opinions about certain things, that were different to more veteran members or the majority.. we have agreed to disagree, maybe debated a little, but.. the very same members have helped me by answering my questions, and made me feel very welcome to the site. for example: one such occurance was simultaneously... we were debating an issue in one thread, and the same person was helping me in another and i fully respect and like this person as a poster on here.

i just wanted to say my two cents and as new commer, that i love this forum, and have been made to feel totally welcome

i also kind of like the off topic chatter, it is never for that long, and it gives me a chance to get to know my fellow members,k and it always ends up back on topic within the page

however...i would agree, that if u dont want to answer a question, dont. but dont be rude. just let the next person help if you dont want to. however i have only seen this a couple times.


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## nursie (Oct 12, 2009)

i read spectra daily, and post occasionally. i have to say that i really don't mind the 'chatter' within threads. even though i read more than i post, it gives me a sense that i know a bit more about the others that regularly post. with that knowledge, i developed a sense of which people i know usually like the same things i like, and i look forward to knowing their particular opinion on new products. (if it sounds stalkerish,oh it is isn't it..omg..embarrassment)

being a member of several forums i know that cliques do form, it's inevitable just like in real life. if we're all adults, if you feel like you are walking into the middle of a clique you'll start talking and keep it moving and perhaps become one of the clique yourself. (how teenagery that last sentence sounds now that i've typed it!)

at any rate, i enjoy spectra and all of the people that contribute a swatch or an opinion or a fleeting thought. 

the one nitpicky thing i guess that i can agree with previous posts within this thread is that i've always wondered why someone would take the time to type out 'i've already answered that...that question has been asked hundreds of times and answered thousands..no one is going to answer that because it's been answered it before....can't you read the past 3 pages where that question has been answered!!'.....just like everyone saying they refrain from giving real constructive criticism for fear of someone taking it negatively, why wouldn't you keep your (to me) snarky holier than thou and biting chastising version of 'bitch go find the answer your damn self' comment to yourself and refrain from posting a response to anyone who bothers you with such a pesky annoying question.

oh, it felt nice to type that actually. 

thank you to all


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## Tashona Helena (Oct 13, 2009)

^ lol I guess that could help too for them to not just say anything.  Usually people will dig until they find it anyway, or just ask MAC directly.


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## aziajs (Oct 13, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nursie* 

 
_....why wouldn't you keep your (to me) snarky holier than thou and biting chastising version of *'bitch go find the answer your damn self' *comment to yourself and refrain from posting a response to anyone who bothers you with such a pesky annoying question._

 
This made my night!


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 13, 2009)

When I visited specktra for the first time I instantly felt home.
Not because of the informations about the MAC collections or because of the reviews about them. With the large amount of other forums and blogs and youtubers.. TBH.. I could have found these informations somewhere else too. What made specktra feel so warm and special to me was the combination of information and chatter.
I also think this is the reason why specktra has a special place in the heart of a lot of users here. Without this personal note specktra would be like any other forum or community.. it would be ordinary.

I noticed it too that even in the one year I am reading and writing here that specktra has changed. But I also can't say where and when it happened. What I noticed too is that more than a few members are less active but I don't know if this is one or the reason specktra has changed.


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nunu* 

 
_This is why i dislike clicking on the colour threads these days. You just want to read things related to the products, especially if you are tight for time._

 

Personally I have to disagree because I think that the personal chatter is what makes specktra special. The off-topic makes me smile.. it makes me laugh and it gives us all the opportunity to get to know us better. 
Maybe it is too much if for example the last three pages of a thread are about tattas or where the best place is to hide the black boxes for DHs or SOs but.. where should we draw the line? 

Now what I am most scared of is a forum-police that will suppress even the slightest amount of chatter or off-topic. IMO it would take away what makes specktra so different from all the other communities.

I also don't see the harm the personal chatter could cause or could have caused. If we now say that we should keep anything off topic away from the color collections threads it actually could cause more harm than good. It would harm the spirit of specktra.

I think we are all aware of that a color collection thread shouldn't turn in to a tattas-only-discussion thread but from what I see the discussion always comes back to topic.


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *coachkitten* 

 
_I also am one that of those members that is guilty of personal chatter in the color collection threads.  Although I see how we should keep it on topic I also don't really see the harm in the personal chatter but that is just my opinion.  I have actually gotten to know people pretty well by the personal chatter in those forums which I have really enjoyed.  I also don't know how that would ever really be enforced.  I will though try to make more of an effort to keep my personal chatter to a minimum.

Specktra has always been a place that I have loved coming to and spending my time.  I first came to Specktra for my love of MAC but I stayed because of the wonderful people.  I would agree that things feel a bit "different" around here but I can't put my finger on why I feel that way.  Maybe it is because a lot of the more senior members of the site don't really post anymore or even come on the site.  That makes me sad.

Or it could be the negative tone that some members use in regards to new members on the site.  I do read mostly all of the color collection pages and I still don't remember the answers to everything.  I know that if I do know an answer to a question I will answer it nicely and move on even if it is a topic that has been covered many times.  I realize that most people don't have the time to go through the 20 new pages that they have missed while living their lives.  

I really enjoy Specktra and I will continue to keep coming here.  I am going to keep on being positive to everyone on this site and try to make this a better atmosphere for everyone.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I want to be part of the solution not the problem._

 








For the enabling.. this is a really difficult subject. With tighter budgets or a tight budget in general it can cause harm if ten people in a row tell that item x is a must have or that you only can feel as a complete person if you buy the entire collection.. twice. 

The opinions about collections are important but maybe we all should try to be more sensitive with our reviews. If you like item x and think it is the best thing since sliced bread it isn't necessarily a new HG for everyone and no one should be attacked if she or he has a different opinion.


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## banana1234 (Oct 15, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *capmorlovesmac* 

 
_



For the enabling.. this is a really difficult subject. With tighter budgets or a tight budget in general it can cause harm if ten people in a row tell that item x is a must have or that you only can feel as a complete person if you buy the entire collection.. twice. 

The opinions about collections are important but maybe we all should try to be more sensitive with our reviews. If you like item x and think it is the best thing since sliced bread it isn't necessarily a new HG for everyone and no one should be attacked if she or he has a different opinion._

 
i think that is the point, as long as no one says, you must buy this or you'll be a failure in life, its a bit irrelevant. just cos some one says how good something is, and then about 10 other people also agree doesnt mean YOU HAVE TO.  you can make ur own decision. its not the posters fault if the reader has no ability to make up their own mind and decide if they want it for themselves. i like hearing what people think is a must have, because sometimes its things i wouldnt have looked at, but have turned out to be great products for me, like the GPS


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## LMD84 (Oct 15, 2009)

ok i joined specktra about a year and a half ago and i love it. each eveing i spend time on here (while hubby is getting home from work!) and i really enjoy myself.

i too am guilty of off topic disuccions in colour threds... but i like that about specktra. i think if the colour threds were purely 'i like this product', 'i don't like this product, 'when is this out' and so on we'd only have a couple of pages to read and then the topic would be dead! i like hearing about people's days and lives - esp those from different countries to me because i get to learn different things. i also think that one of the reasons why people talk more in the colour threds now, is because our opinions have been squashed in the chatter area of the forum by some people. i know that on a couple of occasions i have felt like my opinion was not wanted and have seen others been shouted down about what they have shared before. so perhaps in the colour threds we feel like we can say what we want a bit more.... or maybe i'm clutching at straws on this?!

honestly i think the clearence bin section should have a bit more higher posting count and maybe something else to be apporved to use it because more and more people are being scammed - luckily every transaction i have done has been ok but i think i am very lucky.

i don't think specktra is 'clicky'.  certain posters will lead conversations butu why is that a bad thing? if you want to be included then join in. i have never once felt that a 'click' has stopped me from joining in anything on here. in fact i think i have made a few good friends here on specktra which i think is fantastic.

it is a shame that some older posters don't come on here so much... why i'm not sure... real life getting in the way, bored of it, or maybe they don't like the tone anymore. i really miss certain people's posts and wish they would come back more frequently but equally i love the people who do post daily. somedays after having a crappy day at work i'll come on here and somebody will post something that will literally make me cry with laughter. what's not good about that?!

so overall i love specktra, will continue to post daily and hope that some old faces come back


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 15, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *banana1234* 

 
_i think that is the point, as long as no one says, you must buy this or you'll be a failure in life, its a bit irrelevant. just cos some one says how good something is, and then about 10 other people also agree doesnt mean YOU HAVE TO.  you can make ur own decision. its not the posters fault if the reader has no ability to make up their own mind and decide if they want it for themselves. i like hearing what people think is a must have, because sometimes its things i wouldnt have looked at, but have turned out to be great products for me, like the GPS_

 
I do find that the enabling is funny  most of the time also because it is often overstated with a smirk but especially for new members it can appear influencing in a pushy way.

Sure no one says directly "you must buy this NOW or you will regret it for the rest of your life".. well.. at least not very often 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. but the passive aggressive enabling with a smirk can be misunderstood. 
Not everyone is able to read between the lines and see .. especially if they are new to specktra.. that some enabling is just fun.

Opinions that are shared on specktra are very important and I am grateful for everyone who shares them but my point is just that as funny as the enabling can be it would be sad if it would go that far that new members have to be warned before they enter the color collections threads.

After one year and so many lovely and funny color collections threads I am still not strong enough to resist every enabling. How difficult could this be for new members that maybe think they have to buy some things just to fit in? Sure we could easily say.. well.. then why haven't they just made up their own mind? But not everyone is strong enough to resist and with enough enabling even the steadiest character can crack.

It is hard.. or even impossible to draw a line between fun enabling and aggressive enabling but maybe we should just be more sensitive  and be aware of the influence it can have on people.


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## Sass (Oct 15, 2009)

I don't care about cliques, tones and bad attitudes on here or in any community online because I know that I wouldn't get that type of negativity done/said to me in real life so no worries.  I just ask (to the Admin) not to implement the warning system because it will keep people away from the forums and that would be a disaster.  Mods can help to curve some of the negative behavior around here or if members feel they have been attacked or talked down to can report the post (via the report a post icon in the thread) and it will go the Admin and the Admin can handle it whenever she can.


OK so what I do care about is how slow the boards are right now.  I come over here to search and to find info because it's easier to do it here than anywhere else and I don't typically read independent blogs to get info.  I'm not sure if the current response time is due to the hack exploits you had to deal with recently or the time of the day the forums become flooded with members posting, but I just wanted to throw that out there. 

Also, I just read through personal conversations even in topic specific threads because it's great and it is nice to see.  It shows community spirit, interaction and sometimes I wish I could be a part of it, but hey, I'm new and I have to earn my place.

I read Specktra everyday and post where I can with the little experience I have so hopefully, you (Admin) won't change too much of it.


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 15, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Sass* 

 
_I don't care about cliques, tones and bad attitudes on here or in any community online because I know that I wouldn't get that type of negativity done/said to me in real life so no worries.  I just ask (to the Admin) not to implement the warning system because it will keep people away from the forums and that would be a disaster.  Mods can help to curve some of the negative behavior around here or if members feel they have been attacked or talked down to can report the post (via the report a post icon in the thread) and it will go the Admin and the Admin can handle it whenever she can.


OK so what I do care about is how slow the boards are right now.  I come over here to search and to find info because it's easier to do it here than anywhere else and I don't typically read independent blogs to get info.  I'm not sure if the current response time is due to the hack exploits you had to deal with recently or the time of the day the forums become flooded with members posting, but I just wanted to throw that out there. 

Also, I just read through personal conversations even in topic specific threads because it's great and it is nice to see.  It shows community spirit, interaction *and sometimes I wish I could be a part of it, but hey, I'm new and I have to earn my place.*

I read Specktra everyday and post where I can with the little experience I have so hopefully, you (Admin) won't change too much of it._

 

Please don't think that you have to be on specktra for x months or have to have x posts to join the conversations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Everyone is welcome and has her or his place on specktra the second she or he joined.


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## LMD84 (Oct 15, 2009)

as far as enabling goes i have never once felt pressured into buying a product form people on here. i'm a manager of a shop where it is a sales based enviroment - so i know what is pushy and what's not. and these ladies and gents are not sales people either! at the end of the day smiley faces are always good for knowing when people are being jokey about enabling. and i know it must be tough for new comers and they may think they need every product - and i really do hope they don't feel that us guys make them feel like this. 

i know that me personally tries to look at both sides of the coin - if a product is great i'll chat about it, but equally if there is something i feel does the same job or is even better - i'll say that too. certain things are nice to have but not a nessissty. so agian i do hope people don't feel seriously pressured to buy because i don't think that's our intent...

want a sony tv however and i'll ram it down your throat!


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## PinkBasset (Oct 15, 2009)

Specktra is the only forum I have ever written on more than once or twice. In many forums some people are so rude towards a new member that it scares a lot of people right off. No wonder why - why would anyone want to share their thoughts with people that attack them just for being new there? Atleast I feel if I get bitchiness (is that a word? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for saying hello or trying to participate to a discussion, it's not worth trying to get in. I haven't yet had this problem here on Specktra (though I have to worry sometimes what I ask, yes, I have too noticed if someone asks something "stupid" he/she gets a slap on the face). People have been really nice here, and that's the reason I went from lurking to writing. I just wish asking questions wouldn't be getting some people to snap. I mean, that's one point discussing new/old collections - asking opinions, asking about products etc. And like so many of you have already said, if one doesn't feel like answering, then one should leave it, not get rude. I really appreciate you that always are nice and polite and care to answer, that is what makes this a warm and fun community (and the naughty-talk
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I want to feel it's okay to ask, and damnit, I will ask! And will answer if I can. 

There are so many wonderful people here I would like to get to know better. The chatter in threads is good way to do that. Usually the chatter goes quickly back to topic, which is also good when the thread is really long.


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## themaczealot (Oct 15, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MzzRach* 

 
_I have to agree on the rudeness issue, especially in the colour collection threads, when repeat questions are asked. If repeat questions annoy someone, I think it would be better to just ignore that post instead of posting a reply chastising them or being sarcastic.

I am seeing this more and more and I find it really unpleasant. As we all know, there is a LOT if information on MAC colour collections and questions are bound to be repeated. Not everyone has time to read every post in every thread. I truly appreciate all the advance collection information that is brought to this forum, but I do not believe it warrants some of the rudeness I have noticed._

 
I joined only a short time ago and have found most people here are quite
friendly and helpful, however I do feel hesitant most of the time to ask
questions based on the reactions other people who ask repeat questions
receive. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *capmorlovesmac* 

 
_Now what I am most scared of is a forum-police that will suppress even the slightest amount of chatter or off-topic. IMO it would take away what makes specktra so different from all the other communities.

I also don't see the harm the personal chatter could cause or could have caused. If we now say that we should keep anything off topic away from the color collections threads it actually could cause more harm than good. It would harm the spirit of specktra._

 
I also like the off topic chatter and agree with capmorlovesmac


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## VeXedPiNk (Oct 16, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LMD84* 

 
_i think if the colour threds were purely 'i like this product', 'i don't like this product, 'when is this out' and so on we'd only have a couple of pages to read and then the topic would be dead! i like hearing about people's days and lives - esp those from different countries to me because i get to learn different things._

 
I've been a proud member of Specktra for a couple of years. Mostly I lurk, occasionally I toss in my two cents.

Sometimes the off-topic chatting can get a little distracting, but I completely agree with this post. If the colour threads were simply people's opinions on the product, it would get SO boring SO fast that no one would bother reading past the first few pages. And it does really encourage people to get to know each other - and the laid back attitude is something that keeps me coming back to Specktra. 

With that being said, as someone who doesn't usually post, it can sometimes be daunting to join in on these off-topic chats. It may sound childish, but I'm a fairly shy person so it seems weird to barge into someone's conversation.
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *capmorlovesmac* 

 
_Please don't think that you have to be on specktra for x months or have to have x posts to join the conversations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Everyone is welcome and has her or his place on specktra the second she or he joined. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Then I read this post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



This is the attitude that makes Specktra so unique. Everyone here is really nice and willing to welcome others. I'll try to get over my shyness and participate more


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## latinalovesmac (Oct 16, 2009)

I have joined other forums in the past and have always regretted it with one day. I never posted and I ended up thinking the people were too negative and mean so I would just lurk. It took me about six weeks to reach my 20 post milestone because I kept dipping my toes in the water to see if I would like what happened. 
Specktra is by far the best forum I have ever encountered. The people are nice and welcoming. The personal chatter adds character and a family atmosphere to the threads. Tish's heffer cow story had me rolling for days. I love how kind Elegant One is. Erine's posts are amazing. Susanne seems to be the nicest person I have ever encountered either on the web or IRL. I could go on for awhile with things I have learned about people. These are the reasons I come back to Specktra. This place feels like a community. 
 I love the FOTD! They offer great inspiration and ideas. I have been unwilling to give cc because I don't want to hurt people's feelings. It takes a lot to put yourself out there and post your FOTD, even if their look is off. Could we maybe have a second FOTD thread that is cc specific? I don't know if that would be redundant, but it could help.
I think sometimes people have to accept you can only be responsible for yourself. So you can only control how you respond to people being rude or clicky
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(I can't spell).


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## Susanne (Oct 16, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *capmorlovesmac* 

 
_Please don't think that you have to be on specktra for x months or have to have x posts to join the conversations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Everyone is welcome and has her or his place on specktra the second she or he joined. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 





So true!!


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## SmokeSignal16 (Oct 16, 2009)

Yeah I think I'll put my 2 cents in, I've been a member since January of this year, after spending a month or 2 just reading posts before I considered to join. I was a little hesistant at first but I finally got the courage to write my first post introducing myself and then posting in the threads here and there. It was amazing how welcoming everyone is! I unfortunately can't comment on how Specktra used to be because I only know what it is now which is an awesome place! I like the off topic chatter because it makes me feel like I really know ya'll. And I also like how I'm not alone in a makeup addiction! That and things like FOTD really helped me realize that makeup has no boundaries. I used to stick to certain colors because I never thought I could pull anything else off but now I have a rainbow in my arsenal! I wear whatever I want and I wear it proud! *And Janice I can tell your a NIN fan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I am as well! I wish I could have seen them this year since it was their last tour...but of course I put off seeing them and now I pretty much messed myself there..But yeah just saying this place rocks!!!!

*Sorry had an ADD moment lol


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## User27 (Oct 16, 2009)

****


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## TISH1124 (Oct 16, 2009)

I just wanted to say I have thought about the enabling alot since this topic was brought up and honestly My thoughts on that are

People should be mature enough to know what they can or cannot afford to buy...Can we truly blame a Makeup forum for talking about Makeup...is that really enabling....or does the enabling apply only when we as adults lack self control and need someone to blame because we just want what everyone else has. Knowing limits is the key...if I know I can't afford to buy, then I don't....If I want to stay away from makeup forums because I feel it makes me have the impulse to buy then I stay away from them...I don't blame them because the members who do buy happen to like what they got and think others will as well. If I had a drinking problem, I would not go to a bar....But I can't blame others for sharing with me and others about the great time they had while they were at the bar and how good the long island iced teas were.

I think it's all about accountability and at the end of the day everyone has to be accountable for themselves....No makeup forum, or any other forum should be held accountable for lack of sound judgement regarding our own personal finances and lives. What we buy or don't buy is for us to acknowledge sole ownership of.  Have I bought because others said it was great, YES 100% ....have I bought it knowing I couldn't afford it, NO. 

I am sure I will get a lot of rocks thrown for my opinion...But please know it is simply that...JUST My Opinion.


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## Aphrael (Oct 20, 2009)

I totally agree with you Tish, since joining Specktra, sure I have bought more than I should have, but at the end of the day, I'm the one who is to blame for MY own spending habits. No one is holding a gun at your head saying "Buy it or I'LL shoot you!" I think the forum enablers help to see the good and the bad side of the things you think you'll never buy or try just because you haven't had the chance to see it in person. Or giving you an opinion of how this could go with that.

Instead, it has helped me plan my list as I know I cannot get everything I want now, so it has also helped with my budgeting. At the end of the day, I may not be a forumite who speaks a lot, but whatever I can contribute I will. I like the community here and eventhough I haven't been here for long, I feel as though I have!


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## TISH1124 (Oct 20, 2009)

All I can say is ***YEAH***** Specktra is back up!!! Makes a lot of complaining pointless to say the least!! I missed this place and all you guys!!!


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## LeeleeBell (Oct 20, 2009)

I enjoy SO much about this board but of course there are always things that need fixin...

While I do love the community aspect of the board/some of the chats in the color collection threads: The problem with it for me is, I don't have a lot of time some days and there are 170 pages of "discussion" where maybe 40 of those pages actually have discussion about the collection in them...it does get to be a bit difficult.

That's when you get the repetitive questions like "How does the greasepaint differ from the shadestick" and people get "looked down on" for asking a repetitive question? I once asked something and got the reply "AGAIN!" from a member lol...Gee sorry I couldn't be bothered to look through the 200 pages here that are OT.... Some either don't have time to look through 185 pages, or it's easy to miss a q/a like that when you're trying to skim those pages quickly. IMO you won't need a "FAQ" thread *as much* if the color thread discussions stay on topic. Secondly, the search feature on this board isn't too great, I have found, so even if I try to "search" a thread my answers don't come...Maybe the better suggestion is to please improve the search function?

I have seen some of the "cliquey" aspects of the board, and some rudeness that really bothered me and turned me off (my prime example is a girl who asked twice- a year apart- how old she looks and she was VICIOUSLY attacked by people; there is an option to ignore that some people refused to exercise). When I/others tried to defend her right to post/see her side of it, we too got attacked. But this board is so huge, that I can't say I "define" this board as a place where this stuff happens regularly. When it does though, I expect mods to be there and vigilant to not let this stuff get out of hand...doesn't always happen, even if they are aware of the thread. Again, it may just be the size of this board. 

The cliqueness I have seen is when someone posts an opinion (civally) that disagrees with a popular member's opinion...the regulars will automatically side with/thank the long time/popular member and sort of "gang up" on the person with the different opinion (or ignore them altogether). I always think of that as being so high-school. Honestly though, for the most part, I do enjoy this board...but I am avoiding any real debates/discussions here now because of that. I just have fun with makeup and I want to keep it fun in here.


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## Sass (Oct 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_All I can say is ***YEAH***** Specktra is back up!!! Makes a lot of complaining pointless to say the least!! I missed this place and all you guys!!!_

 
Exactly!  Which is my only concern.  Glad it's back online!


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 20, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_All I can say is ***YEAH***** Specktra is back up!!! Makes a lot of complaining pointless to say the least!! I missed this place and all you guys!!!_

 








































 Nuff said.


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## Susanne (Oct 20, 2009)

you all!! 

These few days on Displaced Mac Addicts showed me again what an awesome community we are. 

We are specktra, we are making it what it is.


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## Dahlia_Rayn (Oct 20, 2009)

I have missed you all so much!  I didn't get a chance to join displaced MAC addicts...I was super busy over the weekend, but I did read whenever I had a spare moment.  I was so excited to log on and find the site back up today!  

This is what I love about the site, we are a community, and we'll find a way to iron out the problems!


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## Winthrop44 (Oct 21, 2009)

In reading through this thread and thinking about some other posts elsewhere I'm almost getting the idea that the "Thanks" button is causing more problems than it's worth, lol. Maybe it's just me but it seems like thanking someone is being interpreted as ganging up on others, cliques, etc.? And having someone thank you is being equated with acceptance/popularity? Maybe it's not so much the Thanks button but the Thanks stats under our avatars that leads to this kind of thinking. I thought the original intent of the Thanks button was to save server space and avoid a thread full of posts that just said thanks. Do we really need those stats?


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## TISH1124 (Oct 21, 2009)

That and the Clearance Bin seem to be the top issues on this thread


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## rbella (Oct 21, 2009)

Glad the site is back up, Janice.

As far as enabling goes, it is interesting to see opinions change so rapidly on this topic.  One day the forum is full of enablers, the next day, when everyone is so friendly, happy and no petty arguments have taken place, the forum is such a happy place where we should all be responsible for our own decisions.

Yes, this is true.  I do believe that you cannot be made to buy something, however, I also believe that you can be made to feel like quite the douchebag for not liking a product that a group of popular posters have decided is "awesome". 

For those who disagree, that is fine.  Please remember the words you chose to use in this thread when you argue to the contrary in about a month because someone pissed you off......It starts becoming hypocritical.


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## LeeleeBell (Oct 21, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_





 That and the Clearance Bin seem to be the top issues on this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't know if that's true  IMO, I think the people engaging in the cliqueness would just go back to 'showing their loyalty' (name calling and/or chastising people for having an opinion unlike their 'group'). I have seen that behavior here with/without using the "thanking" function...That said, I don't generalize this behavior as something the whole board has become; I don't read enough posts to make such a generalization. But I have seen it in some "hot topics" I've participated in/skimmed through.

But overall I think this is such a great resource, full of some great people... so happy to have the board back


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## rbella (Oct 21, 2009)

Great point, Leelee.  

Go to page 31 of the Magic, Mirth, and Mystery colour story.  It is a PERFECT example of people acting like a clique and being snarky simply because others stated their opinions.    

Instead of trying to be aware of their actions and/or words, it has been decided that underhanded comments and "eyerolling" is a much more productive way to deal with things.


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## TISH1124 (Oct 21, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *LeeleeBell* 

 
_I don't know if that's true IMO, I think the people engaging in the cliqueness would just go back to 'showing their loyalty' (name calling and/or chastising people for having an opinion unlike their 'group'). I have seen that behavior here with/without using the "thanking" function...That said, I don't generalize this behavior as something the whole board has become; I don't read enough posts to make such a generalization. But I have seen it in some "hot topics" I've participated in/skimmed through._

 

I agree...and you are probably correct.....


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## Sass (Oct 21, 2009)

People know what the "Thank You" hack is to be used for and should use it accordingly, but something as broad as this hack allows for unintentional and intentional drama / controversy.  It is the perfect tool to use when you have been given great advice and it is also a great tool to get back at someone who pissed you off.  But then again, members should do the *right* thing and try not to encourage outright conflict and unconstructive criticism with this tool that was implemented to actually bring more credibility and morale to this community.  The hack itself it not to blame here.  A gun doesn't shoot people, people shoot people. *shrugs*

The Thank You hack is, overall, useless in my opinion because it takes away from Specktra's or any community's post count (speaking from an Admin's point of view).  Most members (including lurking members) are more likely not to post because they can just click that Thank You button and voila! instead of adding input that can probably potentially add more value to the conversation that is taking place.  The number of posts and the number of thank yous all take up the same space as each other on the server so it does not cause server load any issues.  I just wish the Coder of the thank you hack could have made it more sophisticated than it is via admin options.  I'm just saying that I'd rather have the post count (the content, no matter how many words is in it) if I wanted to save space on my server, but that decision is up the owner of this site.  

Whatever the Admin decides I'll support because I can surely sympathize with her.  Her job is not an easy one.


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## purrtykitty (Oct 21, 2009)

TBH, I like the "Thank You" button and use it to backtrack on my own posts to figure out what has been most helpful and to see the responses to my posts.  It's so much easier than digging through the threads and trying to remember where my post is.


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## LeeleeBell (Oct 21, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *purrtykitty* 

 
_TBH, I like the "Thank You" button and use it to backtrack on my own posts to figure out what has been most helpful and to see the responses to my posts.  It's so much easier than digging through the threads and trying to remember where my post is._

 
I like it too, for the same reasons, but also because if there was no thank you button, there'd be *who knows how many* people feeling like they have to reply "thank you, that was so helpful"=SO many more posts to read if you want to see specific posts in a thread/discussion or swatches....It's a quick way to show appreciation without filling up a thread.


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## Sass (Oct 21, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *purrtykitty* 

 
_TBH, I like the "Thank You" button and use it to backtrack on my own posts to figure out what has been most helpful and to see the responses to my posts.  It's so much easier than digging through the threads and trying to remember where my post is._

 
That works too, but I find Specktra very slow at times and then the board goes offline and then I'm left with nothing.  I just take notes (copy and paste stuff into a spreadsheet) or if I'm in a hurry just paste in into notepad and save and I also subscribe to the thread that has the info in it (I don't subscribe to the threads with tons of posts in them though) to find what I'm looking for if I need to.  

I can't wait for the techy issues with the site to be over just for a little while.


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## Janice (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Sass* 

 
_I can't wait for the techy issues with the site to be over just for a little while._

 
^ Trust me, I can't either. This has been the most stressful week for me so far this year. I'm looking at another large monthly chunk being taken out of my personal finances since we are facing another server upgrade for the site and a forum software upgrade (which coincidentally they overhauled and is now 4x more expensive, yuck!). Thankfully many have supported the site this year through premium member subscriptions and I was able to use those funds to pay for the emergency support needed this week on a few major issues that popped up while we were working on the site and they will also partially cover the new license. The downtime has just _killed_ me, as a fellow admin you have to know that feeling in your stomach that _just won't go away_ when things are broken. Just sharing some of the issues on my mind that has made this one of the more stressful weeks I've had. 

Regarding the Thanks! button, this one add on actually turned this community around. It helped the majority of our community who lurks become active and engage with the site even though though they choose to not post. The weakness to the add on is that is can be exploited leaving the true meaning of the Thanks! watered down due to overuse, "number padding", or using it to "back up" things people say in a heated situation to one another. The true intention of the add on is one of convenience and allowing those who choose to quietly enjoy the site a way of involvement and participation.

The off topic chatter in color stories threads could be a bit daunting for most, and if conversation veers seriously off topic then it might be best for it to be taken to the off topic sections of the board like Chatter (or whatever forum is relevant). This serves two purposes, to keep some sense of balance in the threads, and also to generate more discussion in the areas it could benefit. I have a feeling this would also impact and most likely lessen the "clique" feeling that some people have expressed they feel.

The 'enabling' issue really boggles me, but thanks to rBella's comments in this thread I am seeing where the true issue might be. Thanks for sharing your insight on the situation, it helped me understand what the core problem is coming into play with the 'enabling' comments. 

Thank you also to everyone who has PM'd me. Things have been super hectic so I apologize I haven't gotten back to you yet. I do read your messages and they do have weight so please don't feel like you wasted your time contacting me. 

While I have other things on my plate on the moment that require my attention I am interested in us working these issues out as a community. If you feel you have something to add to this conversation, please do.


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## latinalovesmac (Oct 22, 2009)

"Regarding the Thanks! button, this one add on actually turned this community around. It helped the majority of our community who lurks become active and engage with the site even though though they choose to not post. The weakness to the add on is that is can be exploited leaving the true meaning of the Thanks! watered down due to overuse, "number padding", or using it to "back up" things people say in a heated situation to one another. The true intention of the add on is one of convenience and allowing those who choose to quietly enjoy the site a way of involvement and participation."

Thanks for all your hardwork and sacrifice. The thanks buttons were one of the major reasons I joined Specktra. I love being able to show people how much I appreciate their contribution without having to actually say it. I love talking about makeup and the FOTD make my day. People are so talented. I am so glad Specktra is back up and running.


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## MzzRach (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *purrtykitty* 

 
_TBH, I like the "Thank You" button and use it to backtrack on my own posts to figure out what has been most helpful and to see the responses to my posts. It's so much easier than digging through the threads and trying to remember where my post is._

 
I use the "Thanks" feature for exactly the same reasons - it's really helpful when tracking threads you have posted in.

Thank you, Janice, for all your hard work on the site. I am so sorry things have been so problematic on the back end, lately. I know what that stress is like, I deal with that all the time in my day to day work.


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## Sass (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Janice* 

 
_^ Trust me, I can't either. This has been the most stressful week for me so far this year. I'm looking at another large monthly chunk being taken out of my personal finances since we are facing another server upgrade for the site and a forum software upgrade (which coincidentally they overhauled and is now 4x more expensive, yuck!). Thankfully many have supported the site this year through premium member subscriptions and I was able to use those funds to pay for the emergency support needed this week on a few major issues that popped up while we were working on the site and they will also partially cover the new license. The downtime has just killed me, as a fellow admin you have to know that feeling in your stomach that just won't go away when things are broken. Just sharing some of the issues on my mind that has made this one of the more stressful weeks I've had. 
_

 
When I was on a shared server I was sick all of the time because it would go down several times a day and sharing with other sites made the server slow down too.  I pay for a dedicated server and ummmm now I'm sick from paying the bills to have it.  LOL!  But hey, I'm a happier and broker person for it.  No worries.  I totally understand.

OK going to see how much it will cost me to become a premium member around here.

Do you what you can and please try not to stress out about it too much. Sending lots o' hugs your way Janice.  *hugs*


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## rbella (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Janice* 

 
_^ Trust me, I can't either. This has been the most stressful week for me so far this year. *I'm looking at another large monthly chunk being taken out of my personal finances* since we are facing another server upgrade for the site and a forum software upgrade (which coincidentally they overhauled and is now 4x more expensive, yuck!). Thankfully many have supported the site this year through premium member subscriptions and I was able to use those funds to pay for the emergency support needed this week on a few major issues that popped up while we were working on the site and they will also partially cover the new license. The downtime has just killed me, as a fellow admin you have to know that feeling in your stomach that just won't go away when things are broken. Just sharing some of the issues on my mind that has made this one of the more stressful weeks I've had._

 
This is another thing that I take issue with.  How in the world can people complain about a FREE SITE that they get a ton of useful information from?  I cannot believe the bitching and complaining that will go on about the site being down from people, including long standing members, who still have yet to dedicate 1 dime to help keep it going.

Then when it comes back on, it's "praise God, Specktra is back".  I agree, I'm happy to see it back, but for the love of all that is holy, please keep your comments with respect to your frustrations regarding site technical difficulties to this forum only.  It pisses me off greatly to see non-paying members, or any member for that matter, bitching about it on blogs, facebook and twitter.  In my opinion, and keep in mind, it is my _opinion_, I don't think you really have gained any right to complain about the site's technical issues unless you have supported it.  JMO.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Janice* 

 
_Regarding the Thanks! button, this one add on actually turned this community around. It helped the majority of our community who lurks become active and engage with the site even though though they choose to not post. *The weakness to the add on is that is can be exploited leaving the true meaning of the Thanks! watered down due to overuse, "number padding", or using it to "back up" things people say in a heated situation to one another.* The true intention of the add on is one of convenience and allowing those who choose to quietly enjoy the site a way of involvement and participation._

 
I agree with PurrtyKitty and her use of the thanks.  It is helpful for backtracking.  But, it has really become a guage of popularity, unfortunately.  I mean, when you are "thanking" people for "I agree" and "Werd" and other smileys, it is very transparent that you are either trying to up your ranking or back up your "friends".  I used to do it b/c I felt bad if someone "thanked" me for something like "lol".  I'd feel obligated to thank their very next post.  It's quite silly, actually.  But, I do believe that it is a great way for non-participating posters to get their feet wet and contribute.  I don't think it should go away b/c it is abused. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Janice* 

 
_The off topic chatter in color stories threads could be a bit daunting for most, and if conversation veers seriously off topic then it might be best for it to be taken to the off topic sections of the board like Chatter (or whatever forum is relevant). This serves two purposes, to keep some sense of balance in the threads, and also to generate more discussion in the areas it could benefit. I have a feeling this would also impact and most likely lessen the "clique" feeling that some people have expressed they feel._

 
I totally am guitly of this.  Looking back I now see how this can be so dang annoying, especially to those not involved.  Then, it adds about 50 extra pages that no one wants to read and then someone asks a question that was answered in those 50 pages and gets in trouble for not reading the past 50 pages.  So, I also apologize for doing this.  I have since tried to limit my "chatter" to the chatter and oasis sections of the site.    

I also agree that when users "chat" amongst each other with "inside" jokes, it makes outsiders feel uncomfortable and lessens the liklihood of newer members joining the conversation.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Janice* 

 
_The 'enabling' issue really boggles me, but thanks to rBella's comments in this thread I am seeing where the true issue might be. Thanks for sharing your insight on the situation, it helped me understand what the core problem is coming into play with the 'enabling' comments._

 
Thank you for recognizing it and not dismissing it like so many have. 

I think ultimately things will be fine here.  I think a few tweeks here and there might help, but this still remains the best makeup board available to makeup lovers.  Thanks for all you do, Janice, and I hope your stress lessens over time.


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 22, 2009)

It really worries me that this discussion already led to users being afraid of posting too much chatter in the Color Collections threads. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I personally love how energetic the Color Collection threads are. Without the off-topic I wouldn't have been able to get to know you all better and the chatter to me is still what makes Specktra such a special and warm place you don't find anywhere else.

The idea with a seperate FAQ thread for every collection sounds like a great possibility to collect the often asked questions so that they are easily findable.

Because the discussions are so dynamic it could cause more harm than good to move every chatter that develops from the Color Collections conversations to the chatter forum in maybe even seperate threads. Specktra would lose what essentially connected me with this wonderful place.


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## Tashona Helena (Oct 22, 2009)

^ I can understand how going off topic can be a problem, but I look at it as, this is a forum, people have discussions.  The color collection threads have been exciting to me too, even though I don't post in them often.  I actually think that it was one of the things that started to get me posting.  I didn't see a problem with the off-topic stuff but I can see how some people who aren't used to it can get confused.

At my work us managers have a communication book we use, and when it gets full and people miss stuff we just move it over to the next day or touch base with the SM.  How about we have the first post as a FAQ thing/unanswered questions thing?  I think having separate sub-forums for each collection to have separate threads might be a little redundant, but the first post thing might work?  Then having one person in charge of managing each Color Story Discussion that a person can PM if they're embarrassed of asking a repetitive question?  I dunno these are just suggestions from me, I'm sure you girlies will figure it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And I like the thanks button because it helps me track my posts as well, and I feel like an idiot for just posting "thanks".  I've been it in other forums (ppl just posting thanks again and again) and it looks messy.  I like it here cause when people actually post instead of just saying thanks I actually like sitting down and reading the whole thread because there's more than just one word but actual input.


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## rbella (Oct 22, 2009)

^^^I totally understand where you are coming from, J.  But, if you look at it from the point of view of a user who wants to utilize the site for information, it is a really frustrating thing to have to dig through so many pages of personal talk.  I agree, the banter is fun, but what is so wrong with putting it in the "bimbo" section or into the oasis?  You still get the benefit of getting to know people and then it really clears up the colour threads.

Either way is fine with me, I just like to look at all sides.  I think the colour threads have had a lot of issues for a long time.  Unfortunately, leaving it "as is" will likely keep a lot of people from posting, which in turn, is unfair to Janice and the users who come here to utilize Specktra as a makeup resource.

I also see that changing things will upset the current dynamic.  However, it will upset the current dynamic that consists of about 20 regular users.  Whereas changing the tone could make it more inviting to 100's of users.  If you owned the site, which would you prefer?  

The majority of the people involved in the chatter "chat" on MSN anyway, so I don't see what the harm of removing unnecessary clutter from the colour threads would be?

Once again, just my opinion.  I know not a very popular one and I know I have quite a few people pissed at me, but at this point, I feel as an Advisor it is my duty to look out for Specktra and Janice's best interest.  Not my own.


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 22, 2009)

I understand your points too, D. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




My point of view of course it from a user only but I do think that taking away the off-topic would change Specktra because it would harm the natural dynamics in the conversations that make it easy to find new friends here.

If the chatter is moved to certain threads only IMO it would change the spirit in a negative way because more people participate in the Color Collections threads than for example in the bimbo thread. The now funny and welcoming mood of the Color Colletions threads would change.. and I am scared that it wouldn't change in a good way.

To me Specktra is more than just info. It is a warm community that says welcome to everyone. A place to talk about makeup and more and to make friends. There are plenty of other places to find informations about MAC and other brands like other forums and blogs. If Specktra becomes more like other forums there are less reasons to especially join Specktra because it would just be another random forum.

With the sticky collection threads that are already available and new FAQ threads for every collection the information sources about collections would evolve without changing the inviting and warm atmosphere here.


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## hello_kitty (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_This is another thing that I take issue with.  How in the world can people complain about a FREE SITE that they get a ton of useful information from?  I cannot believe the bitching and complaining that will go on about the site being down from people, including long standing members, who still have yet to dedicate 1 dime to help keep it going.
_

 
People get a sense of "entitlement" when they register on forums... like they have a RIGHT to be there, a RIGHT to do whatever they want, demand what they want, etc.  How much of it occurs depends on the forum.

I ran/owned the largest forum for a particular brand/make of car for 3 years, and people's behavior got so bad that my husband and I pulled the plug on the forum.  People would break the rules, and get banned, so they would turn around and post up hate pages slandering me and what not.  It got to the point that we felt the cost to our personal lives wasn't worth the extra income... all because people were childish and didn't understand that there are no right guaranteeing someone is allowed to visit a privately owned forum.

I'm assuming things are a little better here in specktra, as it's not 20-30 year old boys as the general population, but still... every forum has it's issues.  

Do I notice cliques here?  Yes.  Do I notice people automatically supporting popular girls?  Yes.  Are the color collection threads a mess with chit chat?  Yes.  Do people seem to like people who buy everything?  Yes.

But in the end, it's ME that decides to log on here several times a day.  No one forces someone to visit a forum.  This site is a great resource, and I use it at that.  If I feel like it's appropriate to post, I do.  There's some things I will not post about on this site because I know it'll go against certain people and cause drama.  No biggie, my opinion doesn't have to be heard 100% of the time.

I give lots of props to Janice for running a forum of this size, and doing it fairly smoothly!  Every web site is going to have technical glitches, and for people to get pissed about it is just uncalled for.  I think we all can say we missed the site dearly while it was gone, but I know at least for me, I understood that things can take time to work out and fix.  I'd rather wait a week and come back to things operating normal than have spotted access every single day.


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## rbella (Oct 22, 2009)

I totally see your point.  However, it is warm and inviting _if_ you are either, a.) new and have not lurked or b.) are already a member with ties to the other members who have created a bond.

I don't write this as a person who is upset because I "don't belong".  I am very aware that for the most part, my opinions have made me "unwanted" in those threads.  The page I referenced earlier is a clear indication of that.  I write this on behalf of myself as well as many new members and old members alike who have expressed to me a total lack of interest in utilizing those threads because they are not involved in the banter and find reading the threads daunting, time consuming and uninviting.  When you are already a part of it and are able to commit a greater amount of time to the conversation, it makes you feel that it is the reason Specktra is such a great community.

What about the thousands of members who have about 1 hour a week to dedicate to this site?  They don't come here to "make friends".  I think it is fantastic that so many of us have.  I don't think the colour collections are the absolute only place to do so.  You can still acknowledge your admiration for another member.  You can pm them.  You can talk to them in a billion different other areas.  What is the harm of sending a pm vs clogging up a thread?  

In addition, I truly find it hard to believe that the majority of the users here joined the site, initially, because they saw a community filled with happy users who are friends on and off the site.  I can't help but think they came here after stumbling upon it regarding the fabulous information it has, the swatches and the resources available to die-hard MAC fans and makeup consumers.

I would feel that it is a sad testament to Specktra to think that if changes were made to make the site user-friendly for a large portion of the community, that it would make a handful of users who are great friends on here want to leave.  

Point blank, this is a makeup site.  Which has been pointed out to me by the very people who argue there is no "enabling" going on.  When one is arguing that people shouldn't feel that any enabling exists and that you should be a responsible consumer and that this is a "MAKEUP SITE, DUH!", then I guess one's stance should remain the same when discussing the colour threads.  It is a makeup site.  Not a chat room.


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 22, 2009)

To me Specktra is a makeup website with a lot of informations too but my point of view is different. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





To me Specktra is not information only. It is a forum and therewith a community. A forum automatically indicates chatter. If it would be just about information a good move would be to make kind of an makeup wikipedia instead of a forum.
As I said.. informations about MAC and other brands can be found at so many places right now. But this kind of community that Specktra now is.. is unique.

I do disagree that people just join for the information. If you are looking for information only there is no need to register. You can find the information you are looking for in the sticky threads or with the search. What made me join.. I had the chance to get to know a lot of amazing people with participating in the chatter.. was reading the chatter and then joining it. It made me feel welcomed.
A forum is a place with a for a spirit of friendly good-fellowship and I am scared that this could change now here.


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## MzzRach (Oct 22, 2009)

I don't think anyone is proposing that the social aspect of this site be compromised in any way. I have met many wonderful people here and I cherish Specktra for being both a source of amazing information on MAC and other lines, and a community of wonderfully diverse personalities. There is truly no other place like Specktra on the web.

In my opinion, it's a matter of managing the huge volume of content that populates the forums on a daily basis. I think it is worth asking the question - how can things be modified so the the spirit & comraderie of the site is retained, while engaging new members efectively?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but I am glad to see this thread as a place to discuss and explore the options.


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## hello_kitty (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *capmorlovesmac* 

 
_I do disagree that people just join for the information. If you are looking for information only there is no need to register. You can find the information you are looking for in the sticky threads or with the search. What made me join.. I had the chance to get to know a lot of amazing people with participating in the chatter.. was reading the chatter and then joining it. It made me feel welcomed.
A forum is a place with a for a spirit of friendly good-fellowship and I am scared that this could change now here._

 
I'll have to politely disagree with you on this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I honestly almost find it rude to say that if someone just wants information they shouldn't join, and should just search instead.  What if they want a question answered?  Just because they don't want to talk about what they're eating for dinner, or to become BFFs with someone over the internet doesn't mean they shouldn't feel welcomed to seek information and ask questions in order to get any information or help they seek.

Like I've said, I've run a very large forum before and have seen what certain cliques of e-buddies can do to a reputation of a forum.  People have to be aware that there are members of forums that are there not to engage in chatter and make friends, but to learn, get information.  They shouldn't feel any less welcomed just because they don't post 50 times a day in a chatter thread and know everyone on a first name basis.

Not looking to argue, just stating my viewpoint.  I participate in off topic threads every once in awhile, but I'll admit to everyone I joined for information/help and that's why I'll remain here.  I don't actively seek to become a member of the in crowd or to get to know everyone, which is fine and shouldn't be looked down upon.  I don't really read color collection threads because it is mostly off topicness and repeat information, so honestly, if they remain how they are I wouldn't care either way.  I do sense a riot would brew if they were cracked down upon, though...


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## Hypathya (Oct 22, 2009)

Hi everyone. I've read every post in this thread and I think everybody has important point of view. I have taken time to reflexion before posting, for what is worth I hope is helpful.

Maybe I'm not the most appropriate to give an opinion since I joined Specktra at the end of this august. I don't know how it was 2, 3 years ago, but I have to say i just love the place. I'm here not only for the info, but for the wonderful environment, and the place full of people with one common love: Make up. As former physicist and surrounded with men whose only passion was equations, I've always found myself alone and with no one to share the obsession that has been with me all my life. As far as I can remember, I always felt attracted to color,  to people wearing make up and searching ways to make my color pencils show some color in my face.

I deeply enjoy the color collection threads, not only for the information they provide, but the excitement, the rumors about the items on the collection, what the colors would be, how everybody built they wish lists and how, once in the store, some end buying different things form the ones they dreamed of at the beginning and how everybody's life is affected. I think you can't divide your personal life form your passion for the items in the collection. It's the whole thing that makes it wonderful.

I understand that many of us can't have as much time as we'd love to keep track of everything. If you are really in a hurry and you desperately need some specific information, why not google it? Specktra is wonderful, but is not the only resource. Also more often than you think, google will refer you to the specific post that you are searching for (that's how i found Specktra!)

The FAQ section int color collection threads sounds like a good resource to the people in a hurry and will prevent people getting annoying having to answer the same question over and over.

I love the thanks button. I use it every time i think someone's post helped me or gave me a different point of view (even if i don't agree with it). I think it definitely helps to keep track of posts and saves us to read endless "thanks" posts. I love to be able to be polite and thank someone's effort and time. The thanks button makes Spectra so special and different from other places.

As a newbie I can say I have never felt uninvited to join the conversations, to post or even pushed to own every item in a collection. If some people feel otherwise, i don't think is the dynamics of the site that may have caused this. Everybody has fears, insecurities and different backgrounds. I don't mean to hurt anybody with this. I just think we can't blame the community but to understand it. Also, instead of searching for someone to blame, to search within ourselves. Our everyone's personal behavior built the environment of this amazing place. We all users are responsible for the warmth, useful and loving atmosphere.

Another thing I love of Specktra is precisely the diversity of its members. I do love to get to know different personalities, backgrounds, cultures and to get points of view from all of them.

As for the technical problems the site has gone through, what place doesn't has them? Janice, don't push too hard on yourself. You do a terrific job. Give yourself a brake, everything in life happens for a very good reason. Every problem comes with an opportunity.


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 22, 2009)

I feel like I am repeating myself...But I am just trying to make people understand what I am saying. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I didn't meant that if you are looking for information you shouldn't join. I just meant that there is less need to join. The attraction and the niche Specktra is having in the makeup forum/blog world is the combination of information and chatter.
If there are x blogs/forums all having almost the same information.. what makes people join or follow a specific one? IMO the soft skills is what makes Specktra unique and seeing them maybe being regulated does concern me.

I also made the experience that if you ask a question in the Color Collection thread you will get help. It doesn't matter if you are new to Specktra or already have x posts or x buddies.


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## Willa (Oct 22, 2009)

I don't comment a lot on this thread, althought, I read everything

The chatting part in the CC don't touch me mostly because I don't read this section really except to watch pictures of the upcoming collections.

I do understand how annoying it can be to a person who wants an answer to a question about a collection in particular, because going throught all these pages can be long if ''out of subject'' discussions are going on at the same time. But it doesnt bother me for the reason I stated before.

What bugs me is the whole ''fuss'' around the ''thanks'' function.
We do not use this function for the same reason, you guys named a bunch of them. I do personnaly use it when I share the same opinion, or when it was usefull to me (a swatch per example). I find it sad that some people take this function for a popularity contest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




_''Ohh... how cool... you were thanked 45 times. You win!''_





Can we just chat about our passion?
I really dislike the fact that I have to censure myself from talking about makeup because other people may have an addiction. Personnal fact here : I have an addiction, to food. I know for a fact that I can't go on food/recipes boards and ask people there not to talk about it... they would tell me to get the F-Off... no?

Just saying.

Love you guys <3


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## Sass (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hello_kitty* 

 
_People get a sense of "entitlement" when they register on forums... like they have a RIGHT to be there, a RIGHT to do whatever they want, demand what they want, etc.  How much of it occurs depends on the forum.

I ran/owned the largest forum for a particular brand/make of car for 3 years, and people's behavior got so bad that my husband and I pulled the plug on the forum.  People would break the rules, and get banned, so they would turn around and post up hate pages slandering me and what not.  It got to the point that we felt the cost to our personal lives wasn't worth the extra income... all because people were childish and didn't understand that there are no right guaranteeing someone is allowed to visit a privately owned forum.

I'm assuming things are a little better here in specktra, as it's not 20-30 year old boys as the general population, but still... every forum has it's issues.  

Do I notice cliques here?  Yes.  Do I notice people automatically supporting popular girls?  Yes.  Are the color collection threads a mess with chit chat?  Yes.  Do people seem to like people who buy everything?  Yes.

But in the end, it's ME that decides to log on here several times a day.  No one forces someone to visit a forum.  This site is a great resource, and I use it at that.  If I feel like it's appropriate to post, I do.  There's some things I will not post about on this site because I know it'll go against certain people and cause drama.  No biggie, my opinion doesn't have to be heard 100% of the time.

I give lots of props to Janice for running a forum of this size, and doing it fairly smoothly!  Every web site is going to have technical glitches, and for people to get pissed about it is just uncalled for.  I think we all can say we missed the site dearly while it was gone, but I know at least for me, I understood that things can take time to work out and fix.  I'd rather wait a week and come back to things operating normal than have spotted access every single day._

 
Well said, I totally agree.  I hope Janice doesn't pull the plug though.  If the color threads are the only issues this community has (besides the Clearance Bin eeeeek) then there are really no issues here.  Members just need to think about what they are going to post before they post it.  Evaluate whether it's a good idea to post said comments...by asking one's self "is what I am about to say will possibly offend someone?"  If yes, then reword comments or don't post at all.  Simple.  I know there are some out there who say "well, I don't hold my tongue for no one"...well it's the right thing to do to avoid unnecessary conflict.  How do you want to be treated by others?  It's the right thing to do.


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## Susanne (Oct 22, 2009)

This whole discussion makes me sad.

1. Specktra is not just a chat, yes, but 

_Specktra is a MAC cosmetics fan community with discussion open to all cosmetic lines and to all who are interested in cosmetics! We promote a healthy atmosphere comprised of education, diversity, and sharing information freely with each other. All of these elements come together to form a supportive and informative forum community.

_A fan communtity includes chatting for me. I want to know who I talk to if I talk about my passion MAC. I haven't got anyone at home who shares my love for MAC - why not getting to know more people here who can understand me? And if it is in a discussion thread, why not?

2. I guess there will be something like a FAQ section in the color story information thread soon - a great opportunity for those who just want a quick answer.

3. I don't think we have cliques here - every new or old member is invited and welcome to chat and talk with all of us. 10 times a day or once a week. 
I am here since two years now and have met so many different people here - some stay longer and go with you all the time, some just a few months or just a week. There hasn't been one yet I have not talked to if we are in a discussion.

4. What is the point with the thanks button? Use it or use it not. 

How can you say we would support those girls with more "thanks" or always share their opinions?? I don't know if I should cry or laugh about it.

I fact I use the thanks button for every post I appreciate, I agree on or just to show: I like that. No matter if my "thanks" is the 1st one or the 20,000st one.
Every "thanks" from me is unique. It is part of our communication here. Not a competition.


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## ginger9 (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm not a newbie been a member since 2006, by all means not a veteran but I've been around for a while. 

Personally, just from my experience the tone has changed in the sense that I find topics and chatter sections don't capture my interest any more (again just my personal opinion and I know it's a makeup forum so what can I expect) but when I first started I LOVED this forum because it was about more than makeup. It was about so many things - race, relations with women & men, our struggles both internal and external, there was a lot of deeply debated topics and I was educated, inspired and moved by a lot of them. Maybe I've grown apart as well, but I find that there's less topics I engage in now. It's not a complaint but just my feeling. Also it's not a bad thing because people change, times change and forums change.


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## Susanne (Oct 22, 2009)

I really have the wish to tell Janice and all of you:

I do *not* think specktra has changed in any way. I am here since two years now, almost every day and enjoy it as much as I have always done.

I personally buy a lot of MAC every month. But I have never had the feeling here: You must buy this or that! Get it! 
Everyone is free to decide: Do I like it? Will I wear it? I personally don't like lipsticks or neutral colours. You can't talk me into them.
If you follow me in the discussion threads you know I make my lists very early what I want from a new collection and stick to them.

I am convinced everyone is respected here in the same way no matter how many MAC l/s, e/s or blushes someone has.
We can just say how we like a product or what we look forward to, but everyone has a personal financial situation at home and knows best what they can afford and what not. 

My opinion is: We should not influence each other here in any direction: Don't say: Get this! But neither: Don't get too much!


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## hello_kitty (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Sass* 

 
_Well said, I totally agree.  I hope Janice doesn't pull the plug though.  If the color threads are the only issues this community has (besides the Clearance Bin eeeeek) then there are really no issues here.  Members just need to think about what they are going to post before they post it.  Evaluate whether it's a good idea to post said comments...by asking one's self "is what I am about to say will possibly offend someone?"  If yes, then reword comments or don't post at all.  Simple.  I know there are some out there who say "well, I don't hold my tongue for no one"...well it's the right thing to do to avoid unnecessary conflict.  How do you want to be treated by others?  It's the right thing to do._

 
I sincerely hope Janice doesn't even have 1% of the issues I had running a car forum, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.  So there would be no reason to pull the plug!  With me I had people turning up at places they knew where I would be so they could "spy" on me, and then go talk about a bunch of BS and stuff, and it got really creepy.  And all the hate sites and what not.  People get too insane about things... cars, makeup, whatever... it's not worth getting that worked up over and trying to cause harm to someone's life, right?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I've been on tons of forums for tons of subjects (cars to gymnastics to purebred cats, and things in between) and this forum has probably the fewest amounts of issues/drama out of most I've been on.  But like I've said, I don't follow color collection threads, so I might be missing something, along with enabling issues.  I kinda stick to myself and have a relatively low post count, and try to hold back my fingers on subjects of controversy where differing opinions are not welcomed.

Anything like a thanks system can be abused - that's the risk of features like it, but I think the benefits can outweigh the negatives.  There's lots of great people on here that go out of their way to provide content, and I think it's great I award a thanks to them to show my appreciation.  I'm not a big poster, so clicking a button is nice sometimes.


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## Susanne (Oct 22, 2009)

I remember a lot I guess.

Also this thread from last year. 

http://www.specktra.net/forum/f179/r...ecktra-111062/

For me it is still so true!


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## SakurasamaLover (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Great point, Leelee.  

Go to page 31 of the Magic, Mirth, and Mystery colour story.  It is a PERFECT example of people acting like a clique and being snarky simply because others stated their opinions.    

Instead of trying to be aware of their actions and/or words, it has been decided that underhanded comments and "eyerolling" is a much more productive way to deal with things._

 
Could you please tell which comment you saw as snarky? I reread it all and seriously I don't see where.

As for this Forum I think it's good to put a mission and objective for the website so moderator can moderate and people behave in a certain way but... The fact that a Forum is a successful one is how it is maintained 'alive'.  I understand that all people don't want to invest a large numbers of hours a week chatting here about makeup and what not but they shouldn't blame other people for doing it.  They are what make this site so speacial.  You need key individuals for all great forums to run, that's why not all forum works and not all survive.  There needs to be a stable way for all individuals to use this website and I think it's already here.  

Why someone would feel rejected if they aren't as talked to as someone who's here 'x' hours a day?  Don't, it's just normal... I've always seen a friendly forum, as every other social place people have to moderate their behavior so anyone can find a place.

A key is to have good moderators who are impartial, nobody really is but you know what I mean.  Oh and of course; good new posts with new information : an other reason why you need some very active members.


On that note : very happy the forum is up and alive! Thanks Janice for your tremendous work.


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## euphrosyne_rose (Oct 22, 2009)

Hmmm... the topic of enabling caught my eye and it seems to be a touchy subject so all I have to say is this: since I joined Specktra, have I bought more stuff than I normally would? Yes. Do I think that's because of other members? Yes. Do I blame those members for it? No. I buy things because of ME not because of someone else but it is true that I am more likely to buy it if I see good reviews on it or how it looks on a person with features similiar to my own. That's not to say I go out and buy EVERY single thing I like either. Not being close to a Sephora or a MAC or a NARS counter or whatever other brands I like makes it difficult to shop for things and I don't enjoy buying things based on swatches from the sites unless I have already seen the item and KNOW what it looks like. Having people on here who will take the time and effort to do an FOTD or do swatches or even just give a simple review makes things alot easier and I appreciate their willingness to go the lengths they do to talk about/show a product. I'm not going to blame them for it when it's ME who decides to spend that extra bit of money!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



When it comes to the cliques, that's going to happen no matter what forum or site you go to. It happens. I went back and looked at some pages of color discussion threads (which I don't usually read) and I do see where some people would think it's a clique but unless I'm missing totally rude comments, all I see is the chatter that is common in the threads that have been mentioned already on here. If you become friends with someone on here, you're going to comment back and forth when you start seeing their posts and they see yours. I guess like I said before that maybe I don't see the "clique" part of it b/c I'm not always an active participant in all the threads and topics. I've never had anyone act rudely towards me for an opinion or question and I'm sorry for all those who have that experience b/c Specktra has never struck me as that sort of place but stuff happens. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I also agree on the comments about complaining about the site being down if you don't support it. Sure I've been disappointed the last few days it was down but I'm not going to go badmouthing the site in the meantime, especially when it could've been a problem that couldn't be helped. The "information superhighway" is far from perfect. Thanks to Janice for working her butt off to get it back on track!!

Again, I enjoy this site more than any other I've visited or been a member of.
The clearance bin is the only sore point for me right now but that's just been for the past few months. Things might just be in a down cycle right now and hopefully things will get better. I hope we can all work things out and make it even better than it already is.


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## banana1234 (Oct 22, 2009)

oh no, i go away from this thread for an day or so  and when i come back to read all the posts its turned into arguement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




didnt janice say if you had problems with specific people or incidents you should pm her not broad cast it all over the thread?

it makes me sad that people have to make it personal, i'm sure everyone has made a comment that has been misinterperated at some point! why do you have to make it PERSONAL?!

ps thank you janice for all your hard work on this forum lately i hope it is smooth sailing from now on


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## Sass (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hello_kitty* 

 
_I sincerely hope Janice doesn't even have 1% of the issues I had running a car forum, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.  So there would be no reason to pull the plug!  With me I had people turning up at places they knew where I would be so they could "spy" on me, and then go talk about a bunch of BS and stuff, and it got really creepy.  And all the hate sites and what not.  People get too insane about things... cars, makeup, whatever... it's not worth getting that worked up over and trying to cause harm to someone's life, right?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I've been on tons of forums for tons of subjects (cars to gymnastics to purebred cats, and things in between) and this forum has probably the fewest amounts of issues/drama out of most I've been on.  But like I've said, I don't follow color collection threads, so I might be missing something, along with enabling issues.  I kinda stick to myself and have a relatively low post count, and try to hold back my fingers on subjects of controversy where differing opinions are not welcomed.

Anything like a thanks system can be abused - that's the risk of features like it, but I think the benefits can outweigh the negatives.  There's lots of great people on here that go out of their way to provide content, and I think it's great I award a thanks to them to show my appreciation.  I'm not a big poster, so clicking a button is nice sometimes._

 
I used to own a very active wedding forums.  Ha!  So you can imagine the competition and drama in that one.  People were just outright mean...your dress is not cute or your favors look really cheap or you are so dumb for buying a 5,000 dollar dress and etc. etc.  Plus, the battle with other wedding sites was a nightmare.  I miss those days!! LOL!!  It was so childish that I found myself banning more than communicating with my community.  I had to give that baby up and also the other Admins of other boards decided to give it up too.  Even the biggest wedding board Ultimate Weddings (over 100k members) even went off line after 9 years running.  Enough was enough.

Anyway, I no longer own anything but I am a Technical Admin for a big board (I don't get in with the community stuff because it's too hectic).  I do participate in lots of other forums from Disney to Fitness to Scrapbooking to Conspiracy Theory to Politics to Candy Wrappers although I had to leave that one because there was some competition drama in that one.  

I am so sorry to be going off topic, but my point is that there are lots of personalities online and just like in real life we have to all learn to get along.  That's it.  Members have to understand that it puts so much unnecessary pressure on the Admin.  The bickering breaks her heart while she tries to keep the site up and running for all to use.  Can we just forget about the past and move on??  I hope so.

Oh and I remember getting into yelling matches with other coders about the Thank You hack when it was in development.  I asked for more sophisticated controls for it and since I was a girl (not to say that women coders are not respected), but male coders do not cater to us at all.  They just code a hack for certain types of boards and that's it.  TY hack is genius, but it leads to a lot of issues a lot of the time and from being on the Admin forums I know for sure.  But like I said before the TY hack is just a tool and yep, it can be abused.


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## Janice (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm going to call for a time out here, please. Let's take a deep breath and realize we are all very passionate about the forum. I admire this passion, but I would hate for it to be turned into an argument because the in the heat of debate something is taken personally. 

Let's take a break for a few minutes and recognize that we are talking our problems out, and not attacking one another. We are mostly adults here, and I hope that we can continue to compose ourselves like the sophisticated, intelligent ladies (and gents) we are.


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 22, 2009)

I was thinking a lot about what made me feel that Specktra has changed. I couldn't name it a few days ago but now I think that it's not Specktra that has changed.. the people have changed. In a difficult time like this where we or people we know have more worries the personal situations have changed.

The raves about products have always been there, the enabling was always a part of the Color Collections threads. But if we have more worries we are more sensitive about it. 
What earlier was understood as a funny rave about a product now is bad enabling and I can't excuse myself from thinking like this too. Because my situation has changed I react more sensitive and if I can't buy a product I get sad. But.. if I am being honest to myself.. this is my problem. If I have to blame anyone I should blame myself and this is not easy for me to admit.


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## banana1234 (Oct 22, 2009)

i would miss the raving if it went, because i feel like i'd miss possible brilliant products by perhaps over looking them when i look at the collections...
i often go for bright shiny sparkly things and miss the great blushes, msfs and bases.. i like knowing that a large volume of the forum like one particular product, makes me go back and look again


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## euphrosyne_rose (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_First, J, I have never said I don't understand where you are coming from. My problem is that all arguments are about saving the social aspect of the board. For God's sake, the entire board is a social center. Why in the world do the Colour Threads have to be the same? Please, I am begging you all, to think about how it feels for those WHO DO UTILIZE THE SITE FOR INFORMATION, to have to sift through 50 pages of chatter regarding dinner, fucking your husband for makeup, the breakup you are going through, why your jobs sucks, etc. I mean, really? What part of that belongs in a section that is supposed to be dedicated to product launches? Why is it so damn difficult to be open to change so that people other than the 15-20 who are involved in personal relationships and chatter can enjoy the site just as much as you all do? It is so selfish._

 
I do have to say that I can see the point of not wanting to sift through pages upon pages of chatter to get to what I'm actually there looking for. I might read a few pages here and there but I know eventually I'd get bored with it, but that's not say I don't think everyone is entertaining.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I usually go to the specific collection *swatch* threads to look at things and read the general info but I know there's no chatter allowed in those b/c I got a warning way back for it when I totally forgot there was no chatter allowed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'm thinking that maybe for those that don't want all the extra chatter, they could go to the swatch thread?? But what information does the actual color collection thread have that the color collection swatch thread doesn't? It seems to me they are close to being the same other than the chatter allowance but tell me what I'm missing. I promise I'll pay closer attention because there are some collections I'd like to learn more about.


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## ..kels* (Oct 22, 2009)

I am 100% with Rbella on this one. Yes, there have always been cliques on Specktra.. but I don't remember them ever being this hostile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Aside from that.. Thank you Janice for all of your hard work & dedication to the forum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only imagine how exhausting this must be..


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## ..kels* (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *SakurasamaLover* 

 
_Now the forum didn't change but you did_

 
The forum is always changing. I've noticed a huge change in the tone of Specktra since I joined. Of course it's inevitable, but it switches between a negative & positive tone based on who the most active members are at any given time. Negative people = negative forum.


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## Vixxan (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *..kels** 

 
_I am 100% with Rbella on this one. Yes, there have always been cliques on Specktra.. but I don't remember them ever being this hostile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Me too. 

I don't know about cliques it's more like that gang from Lord of the Flies if ask me.  It's obvious and it's sad.


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## ..kels* (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Thank you.  Thank you both so much._

 
Just stating my opinion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's ignorant for anyone to think that you are alone in your feelings. I think most members are afraid to speak up for fear of being attacked by what we are now calling the "gang"?


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## purrtykitty (Oct 22, 2009)

It makes me sad that people are feeling that way.  I really hope this can all get sorted out soon.  If anything, maybe those of us that have been following this thread can make a more conscious effort to include everyone.  Sorry I don't have anything intelligent or esoteric to say to resolve this...


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## Vixxan (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *..kels** 

 
_Just stating my opinion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's ignorant for anyone to think that you are alone in your feelings. I think most members are afraid to speak up for fear of being attacked by what we are now calling the "gang"? (Excellent choice of words, if you ask me..)_

 

That's exactly what's happening people are afraid to speak up.  I know of other members that have complained to me about the brutal treatment that they have received here.


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## nunu (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Vixxan* 

 
_That's exactly what's happening people are afraid to speak up. I know of other members that have* complained to me about the brutal treatment that they have received here*._

 
I'm sorry, i must've missed this? I have seen people being rude to others but only a few times.

This issue really concerns me as an member of this forum.


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## Willa (Oct 22, 2009)

Danelle. I am very sad you took it personnal
Never EVER I pointed you


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## capmorlovesmac (Oct 22, 2009)

I am really concerned about how now frequent posters are called a gang or are compared to a gang that becomes savage in a movie now. When did the attacking start and has become appropriate?

Personally I have never been attacked by anyone since I joined Specktra and I also have never seen anything that I would call brutal.

It actually shocks me seeing this thread becoming the first thread I have ever read on Specktra that I would call brutal.


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## rbella (Oct 22, 2009)

^^^Wow.  Really?  Then you must not visit chatter or deep thoughts often.  Now I feel like you are taking it personal.  I think the comment was made because it is apparent to others, besides myself, that I am being quite "ganged up" on in this conversation.  And, no, not necessarily by you or any one long-standing member.

The comments regarding my makeup addiction, assuming that I'm "angry" or there is "something wrong with me" and not ever fully understanding that there might _actually_ be a problem with the board, not me, is part of the "ganging up" on me.  JMO.  I can't speak for the others, I'm not 100% sure that is what they meant.


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## ..kels* (Oct 22, 2009)

Sorry if I offended anyone for referring to it as a "gang". I was merely quoting from an earlier post.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *SakurasamaLover* 

 
_Some things you were doing here before made that you were in the 'gang'_

 
For those not involved with the "frequent posters", it can definitely feel like a gang at times. It only becomes inappropriate when these "frequent posters" gang up on other members who state an opposing opinion.


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## nunu (Oct 22, 2009)

Ok,

I think that there are some issues that need to be resolved here. The key issues were highlighted several times on this thread.
So, I guess we can now move on and focus on finding solutions for these issues.

Feel free to pm me or any of the moderators/advisors about anything regarding this thread if you don't feel comfortable posting it on here.


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## Vixxan (Oct 22, 2009)

Like I said in my original post here I spend most of my time in the recycle bin and that's because the tone and the atmosphere on here can be so ugly. I have seen post where people have responded to post and it appears that their only intentions were to be mean. I have seen post where I just felt sorry for the person that bothered to ask a legitimate question because the gangs all here and now you under full assault just for trying to participate. 

  This kind of behavior takes away from the spirit of this forum. If you get attacked enough or you have to constantly fight to participate then you just stop participating. If I tell you that I thought this particular lipstick sucked and you then attack me then I’m not going to state my opinion anymore. If I ask a question and several people respond for the sole purpose of attacking me then I’m not going to ask questions.

When I originally came here I did try to participate in the forum but I don't like fighting so I just ask an occasional question and buy some stuff and move on. Like any human if I feel attacked I attack back and it just goes on and on and that solves nothing. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_In my opinion, and keep in mind, it is my opinion, I don't think you really have gained any right to complain about the site's technical issues unless you have supported it. JMO._

 
  It’s hard to get people to financially support something but it’s even harder when that something appears to be negative. I would never support a place where people are being bashed for stating their opinion about lipstick, blush, or just asking questions. I’m sorry but I’m not paying for that.
 
  This is my opinion based on what I have witnessed here. I am not going to get into an argument with anyone over it and I am not willing to allow anyone to attempt to bully me for stating my opinion.  


  To Janice:

  I wish that I could tell you that if you implemented this rule or that rule and changed this and did something with that problem that you would fix everything. The truth of the matter is that you can not change the heart of people no matter what rule you add or change. Ugly people have to change themselves for things to change and get better.


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## Vixxan (Oct 22, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_^^^Wow.  Really?  Then you must not visit chatter or deep thoughts often.  Now I feel like you are taking it personal.  I think the comment was made because it is apparent to others, besides myself, that I am being quite "ganged up" on in this conversation.  And, no, not necessarily by you or any one long-standing member.

The comments regarding my makeup addiction, assuming that I'm "angry" or there is "something wrong with me" and not ever fully understanding that there might actually be a problem with the board, not me, is part of the "ganging up" on me.  JMO.  I can't speak for the others, I'm not 100% sure that is what they meant._

 
    Know when to fold.

  I think you have done a good job of trying to shed light on what’s going on here. I don’t think there is anymore that you can do to help this situation. I read this entire post and it’s clear to me and I think it’s as clear as it’s going to get.  I think if you continue to post then you are just going to continue to keep the obvious going. I think it’s time to move on.

  Thank You


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## SakurasamaLover (Oct 22, 2009)

My point is not that I don't see what you see, it's just the way you see it.
People do the stuff you are saying... but people (especially groups) will remain people.  There is always gangs and favorites and stuff like that, at any level of society.
I agree that people should behave respectfully and be nice and that conflicts shouldn't exist, but it does.  And not much can be done about it.
You are speaking up for people that feel they aren't enough welcome, and it's nice of you, but the fact is; it wont solve the problem, Specktra is already more friendly then any forum I saw out there.  Sometimes it's up to people to make more efforts, to read the mood of place to get to know people and interact with them.  You cannot go and be the defender of all people who got social insecurities out there.
A forum can be moderated but you cannot refrain people from being people.  It would be foolish from anyone out there to promise a place where everyone one can be nice with each other and accepted, such a place doesn't exist.  Personally I'm here almost daily or at least weekly since Fafi and I didn't saw a change of mood until very recently and the issue as already been fixed.


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## Tashona Helena (Oct 23, 2009)

I can't really fault anyone.  It's so hard to express yourself on the internet some, people can read things differently.  I would say, "maybe we should think before we type!!" like a mom but some people are just sarcastic and express themselves in a certain way and I just don't think that's going to change. I just think maybe we can navigate away and see if something bothers us later, then maybe contact the person personally via PM and see if it was meant that way then just jump into the discussion to diffuse it? 

I'm really confused about the enabling thing.  I've had problems on and off with my allergies so I couldn't really buy a lot of things that I used to because I've been afraid they're gonna pile up and sit around, but as I'm getting better I'm slowly getting back into the game and reading more and I don't see people as that way.  If I did I would be like, OK, she's passionate about it let's move on.  I work in retail and I deal with people being pushy and disagreeing about products but I say, ok, she has her opinion, let's move on.  Bottom line we're all different.  I just find it weird people are being offended by people being themselves?  I don't see how it's going to change.  Everyone has bad days as well, I really, really really agree with the person who said our personal situations have changed, which is probably making this whole fuss.

I do the same thing IRL tho, like when someone says they don't like UGGs or they don't wear makeup I'm like, "Girl you are out of your mind!!", Girl, lets go making shopping I will change you, you've gotta be crazy!!"  It's all fun tho, I would hope they're thinking, "This b) is crazy, I'm going to do me." if they don't want to like what I like.  Cause that's what i"m thinking when someone tries to get me to like what I shouldn't.  

I'm just trying to be silly lol people relax, it's all good.  

At least everything is out here on the table now and it's not building up.  That's when the worse occurs, when it's building up inside.


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## MrsMay (Oct 23, 2009)

Hi,  I just wanted to poke my head in here and acknowledge that I have felt the tone of Specktra change in the last year or so, which has resulted in myself not posting as much in the colour collections threads as I used to and mainly sticking with the Aussie sub-forum as this seems to be un-affected and has a different tone to the colour collections threads (in my personal opinion).

Janice - I will sit down and have a good think to try and pinpoint what has caused me to migrate away from the colour collections threads, as I'm not sure I can pinpoint the exact cause at this point in time.  I do know that I'm not sure I feel comfortable posting in there any longer (which is probably silly) although I do read them a fair bit, I just dont want to post incase I ask something that has been asked before, or incase I post some info that has been posted before.  As I said, I will have a proper think about this and send you a PM when I have pinpointed some areas.

I do still try and contribute as much as I can, especially in the Aussie sub-forums which are fantastic


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## Susanne (Oct 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_There are no ambiguities.  It is cut and dry:

1.) People feel the Colour Threads are clogged up with personal chatter. "People", not just me.

2.) There are cliques that make others feel uncomfortable in the Colour Threads.  Once again, "People" not just me.

3.) People feel the threads are ridiculously overboard with spastic enabling.  Once again, "People", not just me.

4.) People feel the utilization of the "thanks" button is overused.  "People", not just me.

5.) People are unhappy when they ask a question and get bitched out.  "People" not just me.
_

 
Yes, "people" - but not _everyone_ here I guess? 
I know a lot who are still happy here, so am I. 

*Why is there not a word about those members here who try to answer all the questions in the discussion threads? Who post links, swatches, comparisons, give advices - every day, for everyone? *

We are in a democracy, aren't we? Everyone should use the thanks button as often as their want - or do not want?

_Spastic_ enabling? Sorry, I am a teacher for mentally and physically handicapped children. Spastic is not a word that should be used here. There are more important things in life where people have a spastic 
(Sorry, Danelle, this is not against you! But I can't stand people using this word in such a way).

Again, everyone is open to join us here! It is up to everyone to become a part of it. I don't like the word "cliques". It is specktra - get to know us here!


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## Susanne (Oct 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *nunu* 

 
_I'm sorry, i must've missed this? I have seen people being rude to others but only a few times.

This issue really concerns me as an member of this forum._

 
I am in the discussion threads every day. I answer all the questions as best as I can, so do other members. 
We are not all rude here! Come on!


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## Susanne (Oct 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_^^^Wow.  Really?  Then you must not visit chatter or deep thoughts often.  Now I feel like you are taking it personal.  I think the comment was made because it is apparent to others, besides myself, that I am being quite "ganged up" on in this conversation.  And, no, not necessarily by you or any one long-standing member.
_

 
I was in a deep thoughts thread last year where I felt personally attacked. I will not mention which discussion it was.
I did not feel comfortable with some of the opinions there, but made my point of view more than clear I guess and left this thread.
Not everyone must have the same opinion, I cannot understand them all - but this is life I guess. 
I am old enough to say: This does not touch me. I know who I am, no need to justify it.

Sometimes it is wiser not to answer every comment if you feel it is not your level anymore.


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## Susanne (Oct 23, 2009)

And a last thought on personal chatter in the discussion threads:

Please do not forget that we international members always get a new LE collection with a huge release delay - sometimes four weeks later than the US and Canadian girls do!!

How can we just talk about a collection or products we have not seen yet? Should we stay away like: Yes, I want this and that in three weeks - I will be back then when I have tested it?
I mean, it is hard enough to wait sometimes - why not spending the waiting time together in these threads? Waiting together makes more fun. At least for me.


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## nunu (Oct 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_I am in the discussion threads every day. I answer all the questions as best as I can, so do other members. 
We are not all rude here! Come on!_

 
I know that everyone in there isn't rude and is exacrly the opposite. I have witnessd a few people being rude and i stated why they were being rude in the first page.

My response to the post that you've quoted me in was trying to see where the "brutal" treatment was as i haven't witnessed that in any thread on here. I'm sure if there was anyone being"brutally" treated someone would've notified the moderators to do something about it.


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## banana1234 (Oct 23, 2009)

this thread makes me sad, i didnt realise things like this were going on, ive only had positive experiences on this board 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



i apologise if anyone thinks that i was being rude in any thread
i usually try to defend my opinion rather than be rude, i hope that i have never offended or hurt some one


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## Jinni (Oct 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_And a last thought on personal chatter in the discussion threads:

Please do not forget that we international members always get a new LE collection with a huge release delay - sometimes four weeks later than the US and Canadian girls do!!

How can we just talk about a collection or products we have not seen yet? Should we stay away like: Yes, I want this and that in three weeks - I will be back then when I have tested it?
I mean, it is hard enough to wait sometimes - why not spending the waiting time together in these threads? Waiting together makes more fun. At least for me._

 
I'm an international member too. I used to go to the color threads to see what people in the US thought about the products, because it would make it easier to decide what to get when the collection reached Europe.

Personally I don't bother with those threads anymore since I have to dig through so much off topic stuff. I don't see why all the talk about pets, jobs, boy friends can't be in the chatter section? It seems like the perfect place for it.


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## Janice (Oct 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *TISH1124* 

 
_I think that now that people are aware of some of the problems ...they will make adjustments in tone and overall behavior..._

 
I really hope so, some of the terms used in this thread to describe whatever goes on in the Color Collection dicussions are... shocking. I would hate to think that a forum I founded on an open arms acceptance approach to diversity  would suddenly lose it's appeal because the focus is on some sophomoric "mean girl" clique behavior in one section of the board because it is dominated by highly active regular posters. (I am not implying that is what is truly going on, but if you read this thread at all that is the perception you get.)

We aren't making any changes to the moderation of the CC forum, but we will be implementing an idea that thrown out earlier to assist those who don't have time to wade through the OT chatter (such as myself) for the information they need. 

To those active posters  - If the topic veers completely OT to where discussions are about sex, or other adult topics please move the conversation to the forum that is labeled with an adult warning or to PM. We do have young adults and teens who regularly visit the site.


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## User27 (Oct 23, 2009)

*****


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## rbella (Oct 23, 2009)

Thank you so much.  You have no idea what that means to me.  Others have informed me about the pm's and I knew that would happen based on my previous experiences anyway.  But, I appreciate you having the courage to come here and voice a very unpopular opinion.  Well, an unpopular opinion amongst those that will speak.  



It saddens me that my personal life and my opinions in general are being raked over the coals.  But, it doesn't surprise me.

I honestly don't care to know who the message was from or to even see it.  I would just send it to Janice and Holstrom4.

Thank you so much for the kind message and I appreciate you looking out for me.


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## Vixxan (Oct 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_rbella, I hope people take it easy on you and please know I'm sorry that people made this thread a witchhunt and you just taught me a valuable lesson. I'm sorry I even brought up locating the post you brought up in that pm but please be aware some people are putting out your personal business as quick as hitting a send button._

 
I knew before I made my post that the back lash would be ugly.  I think putting someone's personal business into this is brutal.  It's not fair, it's mean and it's a method of bulling.  

I am the person that used the word brutal to describe some of the things going on here but at not time did I say  "the all colour collections threads are full of gangs, cliques and brutal people is just plain out false and stretching the truth far beyond it's means". As a matter of fact I didn't even mention the color thread.  

The adminstrator asked for feedback some of us gave feedback knowing the backlash that was heading our way.  But to put someones personal business in this is not fair and it's definitely not brutal, not at all. Is that a fly?  This is the perfect example of why people don't speak up.  It can't be any clearer than this.  Please do something to stop this ladies personal business from being dragged into this.


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## rbella (Oct 23, 2009)

Thank you.  I appreciate your words.  I do take some responsibility with regard to the fact that I put myself out there on the internet.  I guess I just never thought it would be used as a way to insult me.  

I appreciate your support.  You are very sweet to be concerned for me.


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## ms. kendra (Oct 24, 2009)

I don't post much except here and there in Beauty of Color, or the "best/worst/top 3-5-10" threads. 

My favorite forums are the Product Swatches, Member FOTD and Sale/Swap. 
I thoroughly enjoy the pics that people upload and appreciate the time they take to do swatches. I plan to contribute as soon as I get a decent camera.
I love the FOTD's, and look forward to seeing them everyday. There are some talented members here and I get tons of ideas from them.

Regarding the Color Collection threads, I'm sorry but I have to agree that they are cliquish, and it seems that newer posters aren't as welcomed or don't get "thanked"...even when they've said the same exact thing a popular poster has said. This is my observation.

Also, sometimes when a new CC thread has been started it will be pages long very quickly, and I'm wondering how there can be that many posts when the product hasn't even been launched yet, and most of the time it's random conversations. Why not make a "Random Thoughts" thread, or something similar if you want to do off topic chit chat?? If I'm in a CC thread then I want to read/discuss that collection and anything that pertains to it. Anything else is just excessive and distracting, especially when certain members only choose to font with each other and ignore everyone else.

I personally don't look for affirmation or acceptance online. 
I come for what I enjoy and keep it moving, however Janice wanted us to express how we felt and people should be able to do so without any backlash or arguing back and forth. 

If you choose not to believe that things are the way someone else sees it then good for you, but that doesn't mean a person doesn't feel that way and shouldn't express it.

And for the record I have to say that out of all the regular posters TISH has always helped me and answered any questions I've asked.

This is my 2 cents.


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## rbella (Oct 24, 2009)

Thank you for your response and input.  It's good to hear from members from all areas of the board.  I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and I'm glad that you were able to find help on the board.


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## Janice (Oct 24, 2009)

I was having a hard time understanding what all these cryptic posts were about. It's become clear to me there is beef spilling out into this thread. I sincerely hope the parties can work out their differences. If anyone has any input on issues other than the clique atmosphere of a certain area of the forum I really would like to go back getting input. We have had some great discussion and have clearly segmented one issue out and identified it clearly. 

We're adults and there is absolutely nothing I as an administrator can do about personal problems or the atmosphere of a clique (and if I were that crazy it would only serve to completely alienate a population of my forum). There is no way I would consider moderation as the answer to that. I firmly believe we are adults and can conduct ourselves in a kind and respectful manner to one another and maybe sometimes it's good to take a step back and recognize that. I can only encourage those who feel unwelcome in certain places that this is OUR home, we all share a roof and are all equally welcome to post in any discussion.

Let's get back to the original topic, if you have something to contribute to the thread please do.


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## VeXedPiNk (Oct 24, 2009)

It's really sad to see how this thread has developed... at first it was an "airy" discussion about various concerns, and now it seems to have become a full blown war! And yet all I see are well-known members, with a few of us lesser known members posting... well I guess I'll throw two more cents in:

I joined Specktra for it's information... but stayed for it's members. This is honestly the best site for learning _anything_ you need to know about makeup. The improvements I've seen in my makeup application and colour choices can be directly attributed to Specktra. And I love how everyone here seems to be so friendly with everyone else. I don't really have anyone in my life to share my love of makeup with, so this is my outlet. 

But, with that being said, it can be rather difficult to engage in some of the discussions that occur in the Colour Collection threads. When the conversation veers into the direction of 'inside jokes' or what-not, how can an 'outsider' possibly participate? In real life, you walk up to a group of people and join their conversation - you instantly guage their reaction to what you say and decide whether or not to continue. On an online forum, you don't have the same physical ques to go by and tone can be misconstrued from reader to reader. Therefore you refrain from joining the conversation for fear of rejection.

Never would I expect to see people's freedom of speech revoked or censored. But I do not think it would be a bad idea to simply limit the personal chatter in the Colour Collection threads. Not completely remove it, because then why would anyone even bother to read them - the chatter keeps them interesting. But as soon as the conversion digresses into personal chatter that only those 'in the know' can join in... well, that's when the conversation needs to be kept on track.

I know that a lot of issues have arisen on this thread and a lot of responses have been posted by regular posters. I only hope that my humble opinion as one of those that do not regularly post is at least considered. I honestly do not think there are any regular posters who try to exclude anyone, but it would help if you remembered that there are those who don't know the inside jokes or the personal life stories of everyone - and sometimes we end up feeling a little lost in the conversation!

No matter what happens, this place is awesome and I'll continue to use it as an irreplaceable resource.


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## LMD84 (Oct 24, 2009)

rbella - you quoted one of my replies in the holiday colour collection thred and labelled it as snarky. i said darn you guys for creating lemmings for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 refering to the mineral blushes. (can't think of my exact wording right now!)

in no way was i being snarky - i'm sorry if teh smiley made it seem that way but i use the tounge smiley a heck of alot! just check my other posts! so i'm sorry if anybody thought i came across snarky because that was not my intention! as far as the other quotes i have not taken them to be snarky either. 

as far as the thanking button goes i'm shocked that it causes an issue. i thank people who have answered a question that i asked, or add a review or opinion that i agree with or think is interesting.  i'd never just thank people because they're cool or whatever! that's kinda silly!


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## Winthrop44 (Oct 24, 2009)

no message


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## nichollecaren (Oct 24, 2009)

It really has taken a sad turn, and people are really hurt. I view this not as the problem but the symptom. Something is WRONG if a few snotty comments on a message board can do this.

People. this is really disheartening. I think too much is being put in here. Specktra is an internet forum, where people discuss makeup_ and then_ some other stuff. As was demonstrated last week, if Specktra is down, life goes on---without these people (cliques, or what-not). If you find yourself being hurt it means you have put too much in, and therefore expect too much!

Its unhealthy.

I think that this collective resentment is the real issue, and not the few persons that have been less than nice (sometimes downright mean) in the color collections. I am not saying that a rude comment is okay, and that the issue of the cliquish behavior should not be addressed. I agree wholeheartedly. BUT the level of resentment I see coming out in this thread speaks to a deeper problem which can only be addressed by each individual, at home, away from their computer.

JM2C


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## euphrosyne_rose (Oct 24, 2009)

I mentioned it before, but my feedback is once again that I think the Clearance Bin could use some better guidelines to be able to start using it. Just this past 3 or 4 months I've had major issues with it. My main beef is that I'm so tired of being PM'd about an item and get down to the business of selling whatever the item is and then never hearing back from the buyer. I know in that case there isn't much anyone can do about someone being rude like that, but again I've noticed that more with newer members. That's not to say that hasn't happened with older members either, but not as often. I had someone ask me about a palette and a single e/s so I gave a price for it including shipping and the member wrote back that they decided they wanted only the palette, but that was after several days of the original PM. That's all fine and dandy b/c at least they replied. I know not everyone can respond ASAP. Well, I PM'd back with a new price for just the palette and didn't hear anything back for almost a week. Out of the blue I got a PM from that same person saying that I could send them an invoice with Paypal for the palette. I immediately sent the invoice. This was about 2 weeks ago or more and I have yet to be paid. At this point, I've put the palette up for sale again b/c I know that person isn't going to pay me, despite sending 2 reminders through Paypal. I don't know what can be done about some of the issues people are having with the Clearance bin and I would love to hear what other people are experiencing but I think the guidelines to be able to use it should be more strict. 

On another note: also not something anyone can really do but I want to put my 2 cents in on this. I think it is absolutely ridiculous to price gouge on LE items or even regular items that were d/c'd. I've been trying for almost 2 years to find a Stereo Rose MSF and can't seem to find one for under $50. Knowing that half the people who bought theirs brand new form the store didn't pay that much for it, I think it's awful to expect someone else to have to pay that much for it, regardless that it was LE or not. With the way times are these days with the economy, it's really crappy to expect someone to pay these absurd prices for something like that. I can understand wanting to make a profit and getting your money back for what you paid for it but some of the prices I've seen on things is just RIDICULOUS. People can argue with me about it and that's fine. Just my thoughts on it. I try to keep my prices on my stuff reasonable and often include shipping prices in my prices. 

Janice, I think things are going to be fine and everyone will work through their issues. You have done an amazing job with this site and I'm glad that I have it to look forward to when I get home.


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## Camnagem (Oct 24, 2009)

I haven't yet posted in this thread because I wanted to think about the topic for a bit before responding. Being a newer member I can't comment on how the forum has changed, but I can comment on my somewhat recent experience of registering and posting.

First, I couldn't agree with Winthrop's above post more.

I'm not well known, I'm new to posting, and the only social contact I've had with any Specktra members outside of the forums is a massive total of maybe 3 PM's. That being said, I do post quite regularly in the CC threads, and I am guilty of my share of off-topic moments.

I never felt shunned or ignored when I first started posting...I actually had the exact opposite response. Members new and old were welcoming and kind. Is there enabling going on? Sure. I don't see how there could be a discussion thread of a new collection without it to be totally honest. Opinions are being shared, good and bad, and as opinions do...they may sway some who are on the fence. Is the enabling forcing me to buy things I shouldn't? No, but I think that's a topic that will never be agreed upon fully. Everyone reacts differently to social interactions/pressures, it's just a part of being human.

I can understand how off-topic chatter in the CC threads can be annoying if you're looking for information only, in a rush, or frankly could care less about personal stories. However, asking those who are heavily involved in those threads to totally remove that chat is a rather harsh fix, imo. The off-topic chatter comes about naturally, and trying to police that seems like an utter nightmare to me (both from a posting standpoint and a moderating standpoint). I think the idea of having a FAQ section is a perfect solution. It will give those who just want info a quick place to look for it, and the posters who enjoy the day to day chit chat can continue on.

I can't comment on the chatter or deep thoughts sections, as I have posted there maybe a handful of times. My experience in the clearance bin has been wonderfully positive (maybe I've just been lucky).  I'm sad for those who haven't shared my positive experience, but I'm hoping that this thread can help change that down the line.

Just my long winded (sorry!) 2 cents.


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## rbella (Oct 24, 2009)

If you have just started to read this thread, I have deleted many comments pertaining to personal information that was shared about me. Very personal, and quite embarrasing information that was shared via pm's during what I thought was a debate.

If any of you wonder why this started becoming "personal" to me, perhaps take a moment and put yourself in my shoes. I am not guiltless, but to take information about me and start a "smear campaign" across the board including personal and embarrassing information is unfair and wrong. Janice, I'm sorry if this doesn't fit into what you want written in here, but I feel I _at least_ deserve this if no action is going to take place.

Winthrop-I never denied I was once part of the problem. And, your comment makes zero sense to me regarding pointing out TISH because I have no clue when that took place? I don't remember that?


I have every right at this point to take things personally. This is an extremely popular thread for being in the least popular section of the board. I have a plethora of "old buddies" from Specktra who are no longer on here for the very reason I am arguing. In addition, those friends contacted me to let me know they were receiving the same dumbass "freedom of speech" bullshit pm regarding this thread. It's amazing how many people have logged in to read about this, yet haven't been to the site in months.

So, if you think it is strange that AT THIS POINT, I am taking it personally, then I claim that is your issue. I don't see how anyone couldn't. Please go back and re-read my statements from the beginning. You can see my tone changed around the time I was being made aware of all this. My reasoning for debating the issue was to help some members who came to me as an Advisor, and asked for help. I never went to Janice because I did not have their permission. I stayed in contact with them to try and help make them feel a part of the board. Then, Janice started this thread, without any notification from me that there was a problem, and I thought it was a good time to discuss it. 

I am not trying to say that my take on it, or those who contacted me complaining were 100% in the right.  I just wanted to address it without full on denial that there might, just might be a problem.  And, yes, before you respond to me with a reply that you also have received pm's, I understand that there are others who disagree.  Fine, I get that.  But, that doesn't take away from the rights of those who want to be heard but are too timid to do so because of ridiculous bullying in the first place.  All sides deserve to be heard.  MINE included.  And I mean it when I say "heard", not bashed.

Let me reiterate what the first message contained:

Janice *"Okay, so I've been getting alot of emails lately about the tone of the forum being different. I talked to these people a little, and I felt that if those few were motivated enough to send me a email then maybe there are more of you out there who feel the same way. "*

_*"Is there something different that the general population is having a hard time adjusting to? Has our policy of being able to talk openly somehow changed? Are people feeling alot of pressure from certain individuals? Talk to me, let's see if I can help.*_"

I would ask any of you to read those two quotes and tell me I am debating the issue because of "my personal problems". That is so friggin' insulting I am sick of it. Yes, now it is personal, at the time it was not.

_*"the tone of the forum being different" and "are people feeling alot of pressure from certain individuals"*_ ~ If I never sent anything to Janice regarding what people were telling me, how else would she come to this conclusion? Because I am not the ONLY person who feels this way.

Please, address only your complaints from here on out and I would appreciate any backhanded comments or addressing me and any past issues I shared with friends in a "private area" be left out of it. This isn't about ME.

I felt I deserved the right to say how I feel since there will be no consequences, but I don't want to be a part of the issue anymore.

Best of luck to all of you.

-Rbella


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## Janice (Oct 24, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Camnagem* 

 
_However, asking those who are heavily involved in those threads to totally remove that chat is a rather harsh fix, imo. The off-topic chatter comes about naturally, and trying to police that seems like an utter nightmare to me (both from a posting standpoint and a moderating standpoint)._

 
I would like to make it clear that neither of those options were explored or considered. I don't know what talk is going on amongst members, but I just want to quash that kind of thinking before it gets any further. I have no desire to direct volunteer resources into moderating adult men and women whom I fully expect to behave and comport themselves as the intelligent being I know they are while visiting here. I am not an advocate of babysitting the masses. 

If there was the feeling of a clique then I am sure this has been thrown out into the limelight and there is no hiding from it. People will be more aware of their actions and I fully expect it to resolve itself without need from "divine intervention". We as a community will continue to move forward, a forum is a ever evolving place. Feel free to come to me with your concerns at any time, my door is always open. You can reach me via PM, email, or on Skype at JaniceFTW.

This is not directed at the poster of the comment I quoted, it's a general statement that I wanted to make when I saw the potential of how people could be interpreting the situation in this thread.


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## Janice (Oct 24, 2009)

To protect the privacy of members I did clean up some off the more heated posts in this thread.


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## rbella (Oct 24, 2009)

^^^If I could thank you three times for that, I would.


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## Dahlia_Rayn (Oct 24, 2009)

Ok, firstly I would like to thank all of the advisors and moderators, and especially Janice!  This board is incredible, and I have so much fun here, meeting new people from all over the world, and talking about makeup, and looking at makeup swatches...basically this board is my makeup porn!  

I loved the ideas about have a FAQ section for each collection, and I also really like the idea of changing some of the requirements in order to be able to post in the clearance bin.


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## User27 (Oct 25, 2009)

*****


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## User38 (Oct 25, 2009)

"The more things change, the more they stay the same" -- a very wise axiom.

What's really changed on Spectra?  nothing. It is still a great place and a great forum.

It is the economy that has changed us all.


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## User27 (Oct 25, 2009)

*****


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## nunu (Oct 25, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_It's a great place and a great forum but what about the people who make it a not so great experience? I've never been oblivious to what went on with the *How's Everyone Doing? and the gossiping that was involved nor a lot of other things.* I've been aware but how do people justify the behavior they do? I was going to bring my issues to redambition, CorvsQueen or the supervisor that started with a k with retail therapy under their name but didn't know whether or not they clung to the dealings that got brought up recently on the membership side. *The chatter that goes on about members is horrendous, the taunting* when some say they're trying to cut back for a car and yeah, they're adults in charge of their own lives but don't kick people when they're down. 
_

 
I'm assuming this is directed at me (and the other premium members) so i have to respond to this. I am part of that community and i post regularly in that thread you mentioned and i can assure you that we never bitched about other members. I mean the moderators and Janice can freely come into those threads to post and they can tell you that what you're saying is not true at at all.

I don't know where you got this information from but that's not true. Infact, it's a huge accusation.


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## MrsMay (Oct 25, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *HerGreyness* 

 
_"The more things change, the more they stay the same" -- a very wise axiom.

What's really changed on Spectra? nothing. It is still a great place and a great forum.

It is the economy that has changed us all._

 
I just wanted to say that while this may be applicable to the countries where the current economic situation has made an impact, it doesnt apply to all countries.

For instance, in Australia the world economic climate has not made a pronounced impact and has not affected the spending habits of anyone I know.


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## rbella (Oct 25, 2009)

This might be the dumbest suggestion ever, I don't know anything about how a "forum" works.  But, could there be some type of "Ask Erine" button at the top or bottom of each page or thread that you click on and it opens into a new window that shows the questions and the answers that Erine has already given for that particular colour story?  Perhaps an advisor or Mod could update the link with the questions she has answered.  Then instead of having to do a search, a user could quickly click the button, read all the questions and answers for that particular colour story that they are in and Erine won't have to answer all questions over and over.  

I don't know if that is even a possibility, but I know she reads through every page, it wouldn't be any extra work for her, it would just be quotes taken directly from the thread and put into a reference page by a member of admin. 

Is that stupid?


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## banana1234 (Oct 25, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_This might be the dumbest suggestion ever, I don't know anything about how a "forum" works.  But, could there be some type of "Ask Erine" button at the top or bottom of each page or thread that you click on and it opens into a new window that shows the questions and the answers that Erine has already given for that particular colour story?  Perhaps an advisor or Mod could update the link with the questions she has answered.  Then instead of having to do a search, a user could quickly click the button, read all the questions and answers for that particular colour story that they are in and Erine won't have to answer all questions over and over.  

I don't know if that is even a possibility, but I know she reads through every page, it wouldn't be any extra work for her, it would just be quotes taken directly from the thread and put into a reference page by a member of admin. 

Is that stupid?_

 
sounds like a good idea, i think this is what people have mentioned previously by having a 'faq' type section, dont know if it can be done though


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## rbella (Oct 25, 2009)

^^^Yeah, I was unsure if they meant a FAQ as one page for the whole colour story forum, or for each page?  I think it would be more organized and easier to navigate as 1 page?


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## User27 (Oct 25, 2009)

*****


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## Janice (Oct 26, 2009)

Advisors are valued senior members of the site who have agreed to assist the staff in identifying content that is mis-categorized, posted multiple times, or undesirable (spam). If you have issues you feel require the assistance of a Specktra staff member to resolve please contact a forum moderator or administrator.


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## Lauren1981 (Oct 26, 2009)

i know personally, i was away for a while. this time of the year beginning with the end of july and august i tend to get a lot busier than normal mainly because the semester is starting back up.
but what i did notice is that from like spring through the first half of summer thing on here were very tense. there were a  lot of threads started from controversial topics with hundreds of differing opinions and lots of pms'ing and estrogen flying left and right and i was guilty of it also. you know, you read these threads and you get passionate over certain subjects so you want to hold your stance and defend how you feel and then no matter how someone responds, whether it's nice or not so nice you automatically read it and respond to it with that defensiveness. i'm actually glad it quieted down because like i said, things seemed SUPER tense and like i said, i was guilty of it as well.
but i'm just now getting back to specktra. i havent been on in over a month now. it does seem different but not to the point where i'm disappointed


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## Shimmer (Oct 26, 2009)

Guys, don't get so heated that you forget what good friends in the community we've been for a long time.


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## elegant-one (Oct 26, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_Yes, "people" - but not everyone here I guess? 
I know a lot who are still happy here, so am I. 

*Why is there not a word about those members here who try to answer all the questions in the discussion threads? Who post links, swatches, comparisons, give advices - every day, for everyone? *

We are in a democracy, aren't we? Everyone should use the thanks button as often as their want - or do not want?

Spastic enabling? Sorry, I am a teacher for mentally and physically handicapped children. Spastic is not a word that should be used here. There are more important things in life where people have a spastic 
(Sorry, Danelle, this is not against you! But I can't stand people using this word in such a way).

Again, everyone is open to join us here! It is up to everyone to become a part of it. I don't like the word "cliques". It is specktra - get to know us here!_

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_I am in the discussion threads every day. I answer all the questions as best as I can, so do other members. 
We are not all rude here! Come on!_

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_I was in a deep thoughts thread last year where I felt personally attacked. I will not mention which discussion it was.
I did not feel comfortable with some of the opinions there, but made my point of view more than clear I guess and left this thread.
Not everyone must have the same opinion, I cannot understand them all - but this is life I guess. 
I am old enough to say: This does not touch me. I know who I am, no need to justify it.

Sometimes it is wiser not to answer every comment if you feel it is not your level anymore._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_And a last thought on personal chatter in the discussion threads:

Please do not forget that we international members always get a new LE collection with a huge release delay - sometimes four weeks later than the US and Canadian girls do!!

How can we just talk about a collection or products we have not seen yet? Should we stay away like: Yes, I want this and that in three weeks - I will be back then when I have tested it?
I mean, it is hard enough to wait sometimes - why not spending the waiting time together in these threads? Waiting together makes more fun. At least for me._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Susanne* 

 
_This whole discussion makes me sad.

1. Specktra is not just a chat, yes, but 

Specktra is a MAC cosmetics fan community with discussion open to all cosmetic lines and to all who are interested in cosmetics! We promote a healthy atmosphere comprised of education, diversity, and sharing information freely with each other. All of these elements come together to form a supportive and informative forum community.

A fan communtity includes chatting for me. I want to know who I talk to if I talk about my passion MAC. I haven't got anyone at home who shares my love for MAC - why not getting to know more people here who can understand me? And if it is in a discussion thread, why not?

2. I guess there will be something like a FAQ section in the color story information thread soon - a great opportunity for those who just want a quick answer.

3. I don't think we have cliques here - every new or old member is invited and welcome to chat and talk with all of us. 10 times a day or once a week. 
I am here since two years now and have met so many different people here - some stay longer and go with you all the time, some just a few months or just a week. There hasn't been one yet I have not talked to if we are in a discussion.

4. What is the point with the thanks button? Use it or use it not. 

How can you say we would support those girls with more "thanks" or always share their opinions?? I don't know if I should cry or laugh about it.

I fact I use the thanks button for every post I appreciate, I agree on or just to show: I like that. No matter if my "thanks" is the 1st one or the 20,000st one.
Every "thanks" from me is unique. It is part of our communication here. Not a competition._

 
I couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks Susanne.  Hypathya's post was excellent as well. 

I've always had  fun here as well as reaching out to everyone, trying to make people laugh so they felt comfortable posting. I also spend a lot of my time finding swatches & color comparison to post when those questions are asked - by ANYONE. In fact, we had a new person post who had never posted before simply because of the kindness & friendship she saw - in the color thread! And it was because of a short off-topic post that made her post for the first time.

Maybe I'm just too old or secure, but I don't get some of the complaints 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I feel exactly like Susanne's posts.


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## User27 (Oct 27, 2009)

*****


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## User27 (Oct 27, 2009)

****


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## Susanne (Oct 27, 2009)

This may be one example, yes. But we are newbie-friendly here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No one can read every new post here at once, if we all have our eyes open it works I guess.


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## User27 (Oct 27, 2009)

*****


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## LMD84 (Oct 27, 2009)

i think that alot of people do try answering questions and putting people in the right direction. only 2 days ago i rpelied when nobody else did for a cp request that had been placed in the wrong forum. like Susanne said because people can't read every single post (i have a social life on occasion! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )some slip through. but i know i always try my best to help newbies and always be polite.

i can totally understand why some people getting annoyed at being asked the same question over and over. which is why if i ever see said question i'll look for the answer to help out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




i honestly had no idea that people have been pm'ing each other and such about all these issues so i'm really shocked that things escalated so much. that said i love specktra and will continue to post and try and do what i can to get newbies and lurkers posting!


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## User27 (Oct 27, 2009)

*****


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## banana1234 (Oct 27, 2009)

you should have posted hakuna matata.. would have lightened the mood a little


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## ForgetRegret (Oct 27, 2009)

Try and be mad while looking at this. 
Attachment 10028
...I know this is a serious discussion, but I have to agree with the notion of lightening the mood a bit...it doesn't seem quite as angry as it has, but still...I thought this picture might at least make everyone smile.


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## elegant-one (Oct 27, 2009)

^ He/She is sooooo adorable!


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## Susanne (Oct 27, 2009)




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## rbella (Oct 27, 2009)

Holy God, I love that dog.

Cassadalinnis, I can appreciate where you are coming from.  I think you are being very sweet.  Keep in mind, though, that if you look at the views vs. posts in just about any of threads, the views will heavily outweigh the numbers of posts.  For instance, a FOTD might get 300 views, yet only 15 posts.  Or, in the chatter, a topic will have 5000 views and 100 posts.  

That particular post could have been viewed by people who had no clue what the answer to her question was, outside "lurkers" who don't have accounts as well as by the original poster herself.  Not that your intentions are good and meaningful, I just think it is important to note that the fact that it went unanswered does not necessarily show lack of care from members.  Does that make any sense?  Sometimes when I try to say something I don't paint the proper picture.  

Either way, I think it is very sweet of you to make such a huge effort to be nice to everyone.


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## clslvr6spd (Oct 27, 2009)

Ill throw this in there to make people smile!


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## darkishstar (Oct 27, 2009)

I think I can safely say I was one of the members here who kinda faded away to the background. I was very active and posted up swatches, lip swatches, and all sorts of things. And then my life got busy, school was too much, I went through a bad sort of break up (yet again!) and after sorting out my life I came back.

And yes, I still see old faces, but there are HARDLY any new ones. Yes we are very welcome to new members, but I know I can't be the only one that noticed that new members do not tend to stay and chat in the threads, it is the same girls that post over and over, and that's fine. But maybe we need to look at why new members stop posting or why new members don't tend to stay around, I especially notice this in the Color Collection threads.

I am going to say that yes, I have been part of thread drama before. And it has not made me happy, I remember standing up for someone else because for some reason whatsoever (that they do not deserve I might add), they have become attacked and at the rally of one person although in the beginning of the whole thing, they were fine with the discussion. I think people do take the forum too seriously and forget that yes, text can be easily misread or misinterpreted, and unfortunately, this is what happened in that instance I can remember and instead of finding fault with themselves for not understanding the OP's train of thought, they took offense instead for something clearly not the OP's fault.

It's things like that that make me hesitant to post anymore. I can safely say that individually everyone is great. But once someone gets an idea, especially a more popular person or active member, everyone will instantly jump on her side. And I hate to see that sort of thing going on, but it definitely happens.

And while I love this place, with my obsession drawing to an end, I also find less need to come around. So this is probably the biggest reason why people stop coming around, and probably the reason of most senior members, because I mean, they have SO much stuff and Specktra only makes the buying issue worse, and I think that's definitely why people stop coming on because if they can avoid Specktra, they might be able to avoid the enabling.

I think we all need to step back and just remember why we're here in the first place. It's because we all love make-up, put all those issues with other people aside and put all that negativity aside and gush about the things you love, help out all the new people because they love it too, there's already that common ground, there is no need to feel higher than anyone just because you've been around longer. I think if we can all remember that we're here because we love make-up and that we have fun talking about upcoming collection and new fancy colors and stuff, with EVERYONE, we can bring back the positive mood again.


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## Susanne (Oct 28, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_
Cassadalinnis, I can appreciate where you are coming from.  I think you are being very sweet.  Keep in mind, though, that if you look at the views vs. posts in just about any of threads, the views will heavily outweigh the numbers of posts.  For instance, a FOTD might get 300 views, yet only 15 posts.  Or, in the chatter, a topic will have 5000 views and 100 posts.  

That particular post could have been viewed by people who had no clue what the answer to her question was, outside "lurkers" who don't have accounts as well as by the original poster herself.  Not that your intentions are good and meaningful, I just think it is important to note that the fact that it went unanswered does not necessarily show lack of care from members.  Does that make any sense?  Sometimes when I try to say something I don't paint the proper picture.  

Either way, I think it is very sweet of you to make such a huge effort to be nice to everyone._

 
I agree: We are over 40,000 members here and maybe those 100 who had read this post before could not help at this moment or on that topic.
I am sure that sooner or later always someone can help and will post it!


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## abbyquack (Oct 28, 2009)

Janice,
I know I'm a little late, but to answer your initial question, in my experience here, I have always felt, and continue to feel, that there is a great tone here at Specktra, and that there are people willing to welcome me and help me out with any questions, whether they be about makeup, or personal things or whatever. This is not the case on a lot of makeup forums or LJ pages where people are truly mean to each other, and so I've always felt comfortable turning to Specktra.

I'm sad that not everyone feels this way, but I also understand the fact that every one's experience on Specktra is going to be different based on the forums they visit, or the way they interpret the things users write.

Occasionally, I will run across a conversation that is snarky or one person acts superior to others or whatever it is, but I realize that these people exist in every facet of life, and I can't get all worked up about their remarks, I've just ignored it- to me, it doesn't reflect on the overall tone of the forums. 

I wish I could make a list of all the members who have been so so sweet, and considerate, but it would take me forever, because there are so many. But I do want to say "thanks!" to all my specktrettes who make these forums worthwhile with their knowledge and friendship that they offer to us all.


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## ForgetRegret (Oct 28, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Holy God, I love that dog.

Cassadalinnis, I can appreciate where you are coming from.  I think you are being very sweet.  Keep in mind, though, that if you look at the views vs. posts in just about any of threads, the views will heavily outweigh the numbers of posts.  For instance, a FOTD might get 300 views, yet only 15 posts.  Or, in the chatter, a topic will have 5000 views and 100 posts.  

That particular post could have been viewed by people who had no clue what the answer to her question was, outside "lurkers" who don't have accounts as well as by the original poster herself.  Not that your intentions are good and meaningful, I just think it is important to note that the fact that it went unanswered does not necessarily show lack of care from members.  Does that make any sense?  Sometimes when I try to say something I don't paint the proper picture.  

Either way, I think it is very sweet of you to make such a huge effort to be nice to everyone._

 
I agree as well. I know personally I read every thread in the recommendations forum, but I don't answer the ones I don't feel I can help with...and sometimes I'll read because I have a similar issue or question, and want to see what other members have to say in response. I do, however, see where you were coming from, and it's a point well-raised. 

PS. Can I just say how I'm feeling like the tone of this thread is changing...it's gone from something heated and quite uncomfortable to something that feels like it can be productive. If we continue down this road of making suggestions, and talking things out like this, I think we can definitely improve the overall health of Specktra, and maybe be more welcoming to new members who may be hesitant to post. Thumbs up to all you ladies...THIS is why I keep coming back over and over again.


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## User27 (Oct 29, 2009)

*****


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## darkishstar (Oct 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_I'm sure *somebody will come along and post how they've never seen anything negative but it might mean it was because you've already been established and accepted*. If you open your eyes that people are going through this, you might make them reach a point of making them established too._

 
I think you make a good point with this statement. I think what's key to not seeing negativity is when you're accepted and not entirely new anymore to the forum.  Maybe if there's something we can do that will help all the newbies get accepted, i.e. help them out, answer their questions, include them in chatter, and welcome them, maybe they can see all the positive stuff as well and stop seeing the negativity that scares them away from posting.

Like I said earlier, it boils down to going to back to gushing about colors, sharing our love with make-up together and with everyone equally. Even if someone can't afford all the MAC in the world, even if she/he hasn't been on the forum for that long, we ALL love MAC, we ALL love make-up.  There is no reason to shun or ignore anyone for not being able to spend on a collection or for not liking the same color you do (I'm not saying everyone necessarily does this, nor am I pointing at particular people, but I HAVE noticed this). I still gush/give opinions on colors/alternatives when I'm on a low/no buy time in my life. And even though it sucks that I can't join in on the fun in the buying, I can still enjoy myself talking about the colors, suggesting things, hearing what people love, and seeing all their wonderful swatches, FOTDs, faces, and everyone just having a good time. THAT's what made me love Specktra in the first place, that there were others out there that loved make-up as much as I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The solution?
Let go of all these opinions and higher-than-thou attitudes, talk to everyone, share the fun, band around this love of make-up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's not too hard is it? =)


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## ForgetRegret (Oct 29, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Casadalinnis* 

 
_People probably won't get this whatsoever but I have seen positives in my life because of this site._

 
Girl...you write some novels around here sometimes, but damned if I don't agree with 99% of what you're saying. And that statement up there...I couldn't agree more. When I first started lurking around here and posting, it was all in the makeup type threads, but there have been quite a few times when I've posted problems, rants, raves, etc in chatter or deep thoughts, and the support and suggestions I've received from you ladies and gents was just mindblowing. To see that people you don't even know aside from this website care enough to offer you an idea, support, or kind words when you need it speaks volumes about this place. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *darkishstar* 

 
_Like I said earlier, it boils down to going to back to gushing about colors, sharing our love with make-up together and with everyone equally. Even if someone can't afford all the MAC in the world, even if she/he hasn't been on the forum for that long, we ALL love MAC, we ALL love make-up.  There is no reason to shun or ignore anyone for not being able to spend on a collection or for not liking the same color you do (I'm not saying everyone necessarily does this, nor am I pointing at particular people, but I HAVE noticed this). *I still gush/give opinions on colors/alternatives when I'm on a low/no buy time in my life. And even though it sucks that I can't join in on the fun in the buying, I can still enjoy myself talking about the colors,* suggesting things, hearing what people love, and seeing all their wonderful swatches, FOTDs, faces, and everyone just having a good time. THAT's what made me love Specktra in the first place, that there were others out there that loved make-up as much as I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
I agree completely with this...even if I have absolutely NO money to buy anything, let alone makeup, I still love talking about it...I think for most of us here it's well beyond "hobby" status, and I know for me it's become a passion...and I never get tired of talking about something I'm passionate about. I'll admit I haven't seen people being shunned or ignored for not being able to buy, or not liking something that the masses adore, but then again, I don't spend a lot of time in the color story threads and such, so it's probable that I'm just not viewing those particular threads that seem to generate the animosity. Either way, as long as we all keep in mind that we're here for a common love, I think we'll be fine.


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