# How about honest reviews in here?



## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

What do you guys think about starting a thread, where we'd post pictures of FOTD's or looks we did on models (pro pictures or not) and we could all be honest between each other?

I think this section being more for the industry, it would be a nice place to do it, what do you all think?

I often ask for constructive criticism, but I also want honest comments, no fairy tales, rainbows and butterflies. I want real honesty and I need you guys to help me achieve my goal : become a pro.

So... is it a good idea?










Edited, I added ideas and more info :

Btw I am not judging the FOTD section because I think it's a good way for girls who havent done it (showing their FOTD's) to start.

But, I need more. I need good criticism, I don't need bad and judgemental comments, but comments to help me improve my techniques. I wouldnt want this thread to become as mean as the Livejournal's I've seen... They are MEAN, that is not helping someone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I don't know really how to say it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I don't really want to start a second FOTD section meant for CC, so if you still want CC and you are doing FOTD only on yourself and do not intend to become a MUA or work in the industry, maybe you should continue to post in the existing FOTD section and ask for it. I'm sure that time passing by, people will reply to your demand (CC) more and more... I know I will... I already do when people ask for it.

Believe me, it's not to be taken personnal or anything, I just don't want to go in another direction of what Janice started with the FOTD section, wich is sharing your FOTD with everyone on Specktra.

As it's only at it's beginning, I'm doing this ''poll'' just to see if people who work/will work in the industry would like a thread like this.

Any comment, suggestions, ideas girls?

Again, don't be mad at me please


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## MissResha (Jul 23, 2009)

its an awesome idea


for those who have thick skin.


and from what i've seen, not too many ppl have that lol. sadly. but then again, detecting sarcasm and whatnot online is hard for some people.

i say do it, but only people who are looking for criticism need apply


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## Shadowy Lady (Jul 23, 2009)

i'm in! I want to get better too and I'm thinking about freelancing. I think this thread will help. Who's gonna go first?


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## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

Btw I am not judging the FOTD section because I think it's a good way for girls who havent done it (showing their FOTD's) to start. 

But, I need more. I need good criticism, I don't need bad and judgemental comments, but comments to help me improve my techniques. I wouldnt want this thread to become as mean as the Livejournal's I've seen... They are MEAN, that is not helping someone...


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## nichollecaren (Jul 23, 2009)

i'm not a MUA but i love the idea...means i'll learn something!


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## MissResha (Jul 23, 2009)

willa, i agree.


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## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

Yay!


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## mdjmsj (Jul 23, 2009)

I agree-I'd love true CC to help me perfect my technique. I may not be a MUA but I'm always eager to learn something new and to improve the way I apply my own makeup. I'm for it!


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## User38 (Jul 23, 2009)

I love the idea, I just have technical issues when I try to post on here..lol.  But would love to join!


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## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *HerGreyness* 

 
_I love the idea, I just have technical issues when I try to post on here..lol.  But would love to join!_

 
You can post a link if you want, instead of pics!


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## pdtb050606 (Jul 23, 2009)

I agree, it's a great idea!


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## makeba (Jul 23, 2009)

go for it!!!


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## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

I don't know really how to say it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I don't really want to start a second FOTD section meant for CC, so if you still want CC and you are doing FOTD only on yourself and do not intend to become a MUA or work in the industry, maybe you should continue to post in the existing FOTD section and ask for it. I'm sure that time passing by, people will reply to your demand (CC) more and more... I know I will... I already do when people ask for it.

Believe me, it's not to be taken personnal or anything, I just don't want to go in another direction of what Janice started with the FOTD section, wich is sharing your FOTD with everyone on Specktra.

As it's only at it's beginning, I'm doing this ''poll'' just to see if people who work/will work in the industry would like a thread like this.

Any comment, suggestions, ideas girls?

Again, don't be mad at me please


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## purrtykitty (Jul 23, 2009)

I think that's a great idea, especially if it stays in the Industry section.  That way there is a clear division between the regular FOTD forum and this one for those needing more honest feedback.

The new forum should probably have a warning or at least some rules/instructions so as to prevent it from getting too out of control, though.


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## Boasorte (Jul 23, 2009)

let's do it! I think CC is best for ALL ppl, pro or not.

I like getting compliments when I post an FOTD, but I would like to know what can be blended better, what colour will work with what, etc you know what I'm saying?
I am not a MUA (yet) but I think it would be wise for someone like me who wants to freelance would love input on other professionals, especially when I do a face that I' not used to, whether it be skin tone, skin type, ya know?

But it should be clear that the new thread is for that purpose only!!!


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## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *purrtykitty* 

 
_I think that's a great idea, especially if it stays in the Industry section.  That way there is a clear division between the regular FOTD forum and this one for those needing more honest feedback.

*The new forum should probably have a warning or at least some rules/instructions so as to prevent it from getting too out of control, though*._

 
I would def. write rules for it, if I may do it (not a moderator or advisor, but still I'm here often enough to be checking on it).


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## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MsWestchesterNY* 

 
_let's do it! I think CC is best for ALL ppl, pro or not, I like getting compliments when I post an FOTD I would like what can be blended better, what colour will work with what, etc you know what I'm saying?_

 
I get what you say, but it would be meant for people in the industry

As I said, if you are doing FOTD only for yourself, you could still ask for CC and I would def. give it to anyone who ask for it, as I always do. We just need to change the whole situation a little so people actually leave CC when we ask for it... I don't know


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## nichollecaren (Jul 23, 2009)

maybe u could call it a critique forum, where compliments are left out? or you could stipulate that the photo must be of someone other than the poster? just some random ideas


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## Shimmer (Jul 23, 2009)

CC is hard to moderate, because sometimes I see people offer honest suggestions for something that would definitely benefit the look, while maintaining a really sincere and helpful tone, and the OP gets butthurt anyway and wants moderation and banz0r because the poster didn't just give a compliment.

I hate that the FOTD section is so afraid of offering honestly helpful suggestions. :/


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## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_CC is hard to moderate, because sometimes I see people offer honest suggestions for something that would definitely benefit the look, while maintaining a really sincere and helpful tone, and the OP gets butthurt anyway and wants moderation and banz0r because the poster didn't just give a compliment.

*I hate that the FOTD section is so afraid of offering honestly helpful suggestions*. :/_

 
Me too, because sometimes I would love to help, but the girls don't ask for CC...
I know they are beginners... but I'm dying to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I know CC is hard to moderate, but in a section like this one, and people knowing what it'd be meant for, I'm sure it wouldnt end in a crisis, we're adult arent we? I would NEVER be mean commenting on someone's skills, EVER.


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## Shimmer (Jul 23, 2009)

I think that perhaps people need to really differentiate between what is an intentional 'mishap' (dramatic blush, or smoky eyes AND dramatic lips, for example) that the OP was intentionally shooting for, and what is a real suggestion for improvement.
An example of the latter is perhaps someone's got shaky lines on the liner, making suggestions for brushes or techniques that correct that problem.


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## Willa (Jul 23, 2009)

Guys : Don't post your pics for now
I don't want to disobey the rules.

It's still a poll


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## chocolategoddes (Jul 23, 2009)

I have nothing new to add because everything I would have said was already mentioned. It's a brilliant idea, though!!!


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## Skin*Deep (Jul 23, 2009)

I think it is a good idea....I think we all know the difference between offering advice on technique or color and belittling someone's skills....you know? but, even when criticism is offered with the best intentions, some people don't take it very well....so I think it's brilliant to make a separate thread.


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## nongoma (Jul 25, 2009)

lets do it! i have pic ive done where i could do with another person point of view. especially for industry. im in


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## Boasorte (Jul 25, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Willa* 

 
_I get what you say, but it would be meant for people in the industry

As I said, if you are doing FOTD only for yourself, you could still ask for CC and I would def. give it to anyone who ask for it, as I always do. We just need to change the whole situation a little so people actually leave CC when we ask for it... I don't know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know, but even when someone asks for CC it's hardly given. But I  was trying to say that for people who WANT to be in the industry, this thread will also be a good idea so people that are actually in it, can tell those what can be done to better their skills. That you won't get in the normal FOTD thread ( maybe one or two people will actually say somethine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


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## Juxtapose (Jul 25, 2009)

I like this idea.  Perhaps a good thing to do would be for people posting their FOTDs that want CCs to try to provide some specific areas to comment on, e.g. blending technique, color choices, etc.  That way it would give others who are willing to provide helpful feedback some specific things to look for.  Being specific on both ends would be very helpful, but it would be also good to state something like, "If you guys see any other things I could improve on besides what I mentioned, go ahead and mention them as well." 

Bottom line, I think it's a great idea.  It would be extremely helpful for improving techniques, as long as it's all done out of love.  lol, that sounds cheesy, but you know what I mean


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## Growing Wings (Jul 25, 2009)

I think this is a fantastic idea.  I'm seriously considering trying to get into the industry, but I'm sure there are things that I could improve on.  I'd love to know straight up where I'm going wrong.  I want to learn from my mistakes!


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## juicy415 (Jul 25, 2009)

one time i wanted to comment something on somebody's looks but i didnt because i dont want them to feel bad hehe


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## ShugAvery2001 (Jul 25, 2009)

not sure honesty would be the greatest thing for this particular forum. Alot of times people take it the wrong way seriously. 

We've all walked out of the house with bad makeup on. so ... i mean i think that's all apart of the process.


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## blindpassion (Jul 25, 2009)

I definitely like this idea.

Especially since I freelance a LOT. It would be helpful to be able to post images here from photoshoots Ive done and have your honest opinions on what I could do better next time.


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## Shimmer (Jul 25, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ShugAvery2001* 

 
_not sure honesty would be the greatest thing for this particular forum. Alot of times people take it the wrong way seriously. 

We've all walked out of the house with bad makeup on. so ... i mean i think that's all apart of the process._

 
She's not talking about personal makeup, she's talking about makeup artist portfolio/work critique.


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## ShugAvery2001 (Jul 25, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_She's not talking about personal makeup, she's talking about makeup artist portfolio/work critique._

 
Gotcha... I'd love that!


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## Shimmer (Jul 25, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Juxtapose* 

 
_I like this idea.  Perhaps a good thing to do would be for people posting their* FOTDs that want CCs to try to provide some specific areas to comment on, e.g. blending technique, color choices, etc.  That way it would give others who are willing to provide helpful feedback some specific things to look for.  Being specific on both ends would be very helpful, but it would be also good to state something like, "If you guys see any other things I could improve on besides what I mentioned, go ahead and mention them as well." *

Bottom line, I think it's a great idea.  It would be extremely helpful for improving techniques, as long as it's all done out of love.  lol, that sounds cheesy, but you know what I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Totally doable in the current FOTD forum setup, as long as posters remember when requesting CC that the suggestions were requested, and the commentators remember to remain constructive.


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## Willa (Jul 26, 2009)

Thaaaaaank you Jamie


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## Sexy Sadie (Jul 26, 2009)

I am in.


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## darkishstar (Jul 26, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Totally doable in the current FOTD forum setup, as long as posters remember when requesting CC that the suggestions were requested, and the commentators remember to remain constructive._

 
While I agree it's doable, it doesn't happen. I always ask for critique, I strongly encourage it, but I always get comments like "There's nothing wrong with this look." or "It's perfect, this doesn't need any critique?" (not exactly like these) but I know myself that my looks are nowhere near perfect nor even at the level of some of the really good users. I can't figure out what is wrong sometimes, but I know something is off, but no one will point it out or anything? It's a bit frustrating. And I think this is what Willa is trying to say? That even if you ask for critique in the FOTD section, barely anyone gives any.


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## Shimmer (Jul 26, 2009)

Because the overwhelming majority of the time, when someone says "Give me CC", and it's proffered, they *really* didn't want it.


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## darkishstar (Jul 26, 2009)

^^That's true. But it would be nice that if those of us that really want it would get it though? I think that's what Willa's trying to get at. But then again, even if there was a separate forum for just the people who want "serious" critique, it would probably be hard to moderate or judge/deem what counts as a "serious" critique.


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## Willa (Jul 26, 2009)

What Willa really wanna say is that she'd love a separate forum for those of us who will/work in the industry so we can get better. A forum where everyone could read and take hints from, but where only those of us in the industry could be given advices, and from people who already or will work as a MUA, photog. etc... 

In the FOTD, I'm already giving advice/comments when people ask for it
If they can't take the critique, IMO, it's their own problem, I mean by this that you should be able to take comments if you ask for them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I really dislike the atmosphere on those forums/blogs where people comments, but in a very mean and angry way, like ''we're in a clique, you can't do anything right, don't even try to get friend with us''. There is no point in this way of functionning that helps someone improve. I wouldnt like to see this attitude here on Specktra. That's why when people in the FOTD section ask for CC, I give them, but in a nice and as professionnal way I can do it.


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## Mabelle (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm SO in for this. I'm not an MUA (yet!) but i would ALWAYS like to improuve my skills! I always ask for CC when posting, but havent really got any. 
My feelings won't be hurt. I'm a big girl.

Unless you tell me that my face looks like it smells funny. Then i would cry.


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## TISH1124 (Jul 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Because the overwhelming majority of the time, when someone says "Give me CC", and it's proffered, they *really* didn't want it._

 
B I N G O 

They get their panties all in a bunch and then everyone else jumps on the person that offered the CC like they did something wrong....

I mean there is no need to be flat out rude when offereing CC ...

But when one says ....

I think your brows would look better fuller than so thin 

Every other poster writes...I love your brows just the way they are...I don't see anything wrong with your brows yada yay....

Like wtf....I was only offering my opinion....not a debate about it

However, I guess if it is for Industry professionals only then maybe it needs to be in the Industry section


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## naijapretty (Jul 27, 2009)

if this is going to be for industry people only, then sure, I'm in. There are alot of industry people on this board who don't participate so much, so let's try and rope them in. Also some rules would be great, particularly if we could insist that the image being critiqued isn't one of you, but something you've done on a model (or someone else). Doing your face doesn't really help you that much as an artist (you know your face, but are you good with others?)


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## Willa (Jul 27, 2009)

I'd love to post model pictures... but the d*mn photographers I did TFP for never sent me the stupid pics ¬¬


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## VintageAqua (Jul 27, 2009)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Willa* 

 
_I'd love to post model pictures... but the d*mn photographers I did TFP for never sent me the stupid pics ¬¬_

 
Wow, that's really uncool of them. 

BTW, I love this idea!


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## aeni (Jul 29, 2009)

I'd be interested but I normally give the most of my critiques in person or privately on Model Mayhem when someone asks me.  I don't really associate "professional" with Specktra.  I consider it as a starting point or a place to be a "fan" of makeup. 

On the subject of photos: It's easier to critique a great photo of the makeup than a bad one.

Here's free advice: Work with good models and photographers because anyone and everyone is not looking at your work first and foremost (unless you're trying to be hired by a makeup artist then MAYBE they'll be looking at the makeup).  They look at the photo itself, the model, the clothes, and finally makeup and hair.  A interesting photo and great model can make squiggly lines and messed up hair look intentional.  A great makeup ruined by a bad photo with flash just plain ol' ruins it and no one will really give it a second thought.  They'll just assume you're still learning or "playing".

So if you're going to leave this open to professionals to critique other pros or aspiring pros - then I'm all for it.


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## airy-fairy (Jul 30, 2009)

That is a very good idea. I would like to take part, and have your comments and criticism of the jobs.
But dont´ you think it is a problem with the copyright? I ask the photographers who give me pics if i can use it for my portfolio, and they agree, but maybe not in the forums? 
what do you think?
#

(I hope its understandable what i mean, my english is not so good unfortunatelly)


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## janel (Jul 31, 2009)

hi all!  i am an aspiring MUA at the tender age of 48 and i would *LOVE, LOVE, LOVE *honest CC about my work!  i have posted in a couple of other makeup forums and i've gotten compliment but no real CC.  i'm not one to immediately take offense when given CC, even if it at first comes across in a somewhat negative tone.  however, i do take offense at CC or comments in general that are truly mean--after all, there are ways to point out negative attributes without being nasty.  i say go for it--although most of what i've done at this point is on myself (i have a really funky day job that has me working LLLOOONNGG hours and can't always schedule with others to be models for me--scheduling conflicts!) i would still love the criticism and hopefully i can come  up with some other models at some point!  blessings


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## Willa (Jul 31, 2009)

Girls, thank you for your comments!
I am still waiting for an answer from Janice


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## aeni (Aug 5, 2009)

Also everyone - this is something I've learned over time.  The worst comments are none at all.  It just means your work, the photo, the composition - it's boring.


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