# Rant about boobs and bras.



## V15U4L_3RR0R (Dec 4, 2007)

I love boobs I really do but sometimes they just grow at the most inconvenient times lol.

About two months ago I came into some money so I treated myself to new bras because I was in desperate need. I ended up spending £100 on bras and a top with a built in invisible bra which I love. But not long after I notice that they start to not fit right but I live with it for the time being hoping that my recent weight gain will go again (hence why my boobs got bigger and I was hoping they'd shrink again) now that I walk the dog for an hour everyday. But alas they did not  shrink so I bought a new bra recently that was a cup size bigger that what I have been wearing and lo and behold it fits perfectly! Not really a bad thing but I'm just mad that the £100 I spent too months ago has now become redundant because they're too small. I might also mention that I have been shedding the gained weight but my boobs have decided to stay at 34DD(they used to be a 34D). 

Lol it's a silly rant but yeah. Anyone else got silly or annoying boob stories to share?

ETA: I was also going to rant about the price of bras as well. I know it's good to pay the extra for a quality item especially an important one like a bra but still! I don't mind paying £10-£15 but most of the time I have to pay at least £30 for one bra. And because of that I don't own many bra's simply because I can't afford to have one for every day of the week plus extra. And the ones from say Primark are shit and don't fit my shape right at all.


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## SparklingWaves (Dec 4, 2007)

I get to a certain weight and the bras fit fine.  I lose even just a few pounds and it's bye bye to the the perfect fit.  GRRR.


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## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Dec 4, 2007)

I bought 3 bra's, THINKING they were the same exact brand and style as my other bras, but when I got them home, They were AWFUL! The shape of them was so wacked out!nwhat the heck!!! I guess I should have tried them on , but I thought I didn't need to because they looked the Same as my other bra and were the same brand! arg!


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## V15U4L_3RR0R (Dec 4, 2007)

I hear you both. I've had the same problems except with the new site that I buy off which is pretty good for having consistant sizing even over different brands.

I wish boobs could stay the same shape even when you lost or gained a few pounds. *sigh*


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## CantAffordMAC (Dec 4, 2007)

I have to go to a special boutique to get my bras. And I have yet to get a bra under $70. And my size is actually a 32 around but when i try a 32 on it is so tight that I seriously think I'm going to die due to suffocation/extreme rib breakage. 

oh and I had a consultation for a breast reduction on thursday the 6th, and the doctor took an unexpected leave of absence. So my appointment was cancelled and I didn't know a thing about it. And they can't give me a time as to when I'll have another appointment. I have to wait until they get to me.


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## n_c (Dec 4, 2007)

I can go on and on about this topic...im a 34DD. All that I will say is that its a total bitch trying to find good bras and when you think you found the perfect one...it gets discontinued.

Btw...can any of you lovelies recommend a good brand for my size.


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## n_c (Dec 4, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *CantAffordMAC* 

 
_I have to go to a special boutique to get my bras. And I have yet to get a bra under $70. And my size is actually a 32 around but when i try a 32 on it is so tight that I seriously think I'm going to die due to suffocation/extreme rib breakage. 

oh and I had a consultation for a breast reduction on thursday the 6th, and the doctor took an unexpected leave of absence. So my appointment was cancelled and I didn't know a thing about it. And they can't give me a time as to when I'll have another appointment. I have to wait until they get to me._

 
I will be having my first consultation for a BR on the 17th, can wait. Keep us updated on your progress.


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## V15U4L_3RR0R (Dec 4, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_c* 

 
_I can go on and on about this topic...im a 34DD. All that I will say is that its a total bitch trying to find good bras and when you think you found the perfect one...it gets discontinued.

Btw...can any of you lovelies recommend a good brand for my size._

 
Bravissimo | Big Bras, Lingerie, Swimwear and Clothing for big boobed women

Check out their site. They stock different bra brands that start from a backsize 28 and cup sizes go from D-K. They are amazing but I have no idea if they ship worldwide. Check them out anyway and see what brands they carry and you can always try and find the same brands where you live.


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## Jot (Dec 4, 2007)

oh i so understand the bra issue. I don't think i can actually find one i like and is comfortable. Plus when they cost about £30 as you say its not easy to buy loads (thats three eyeshadows i could have just bought!!!!) Then when you do your boobs just go and grow.

I hate it also when big bras cover so much and come up so high you can't wear low tops.

I'll stop now or i'll be off forever. Just know you are not alone


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## Jot (Dec 4, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *V15U4L_3RR0R* 

 
_Bravissimo | Big Bras, Lingerie, Swimwear and Clothing for big boobed women

Check out their site. They stock different bra brands that start from a backsize 28 and cup sizes go from D-K. They are amazing but I have no idea if they ship worldwide. Check them out anyway and see what brands they carry and you can always try and find the same brands where you live._

 
Another vote for bravissimo i have no idea what i'd do if they didn't exist!


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## n_c (Dec 4, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *V15U4L_3RR0R* 

 
_Bravissimo | Big Bras, Lingerie, Swimwear and Clothing for big boobed women

Check out their site. They stock different bra brands that start from a backsize 28 and cup sizes go from D-K. They are amazing but I have no idea if they ship worldwide. Check them out anyway and see what brands they carry and you can always try and find the same brands where you live._

 
Thanks for posting that link. See the thing is, I really dont have  problems finding my size. It comes down to finding GOOD bras that will give me good support and nice shape. I hate bras with thick cups and the ones where the material shows through your clothes, hope that makes sense. Which would you personally recommend?


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## V15U4L_3RR0R (Dec 4, 2007)

I recently bought their tango plunge bra by Panache which I love and it gives me a nice shape but it's unpadded however. They do padded plain plunge and balconette bras too which aren't very much. I suggest just looking round the site and reading the descriptions.


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## user79 (Dec 4, 2007)

I absolutely HATE bra shopping. I can rarely find a bra that I like and that fits. Thing is that I like really simple and plain bras, I don't like any of those lace and embellishments on them. And, I also don't like push up bras or anything that has too much padding. It's really hard for me to find stuff in my size as well. I'm just going to order from the Internet from now on. Plus, bras are way too expensive. What a waste of money.


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## MiCHiE (Dec 4, 2007)

I love Fayreform bras. They are so pretty. Pricey, but worth it, IMO. I stock up when I can get them on sale at figleaves.com


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## NutMeg (Dec 4, 2007)

I had the same problem with buying new bras and then growing. It's so frustrating, I really like my new bras! I haven't given in and gotten more yet, mostly because I can't afford to. *sighs*


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## V15U4L_3RR0R (Dec 4, 2007)

I just don't see why they should cost so much when they are an essential item of clothing for women. It's so frustrating sometimes.


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## MiCHiE (Dec 4, 2007)

Because they know the bigger you are, the more you're going to "need" them. It's just like milk, eggs and bread, IMO.


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## kittiegothgirl (Dec 4, 2007)

ugh , dont get me started !!! :s
i am so frustrated because i cant find them in a big enough size that doesnt look like something my grannie would wear :s
,yesterday i was fitting BH's and none of the ones i liked they had in my size , so i was totally frustrated trying to squirm myself in the tinier sizes when the girl from the store came in  "hheeey ,everything working out for you XD"
uuhm no!!! :s their biggest size in pretty BH's is a D ffs :s
and then she measured me ,while i already said my size but she didnt believe me for some odd reason..so ofcourse i had the exact size i told her , and she went to get these UGLY granny BH's that looked like someone threw up on them :s
ugh, i ended up buying nothing and leaving a frustrated sales girl 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




,the only solution for me now is to buy a BH in a really expensive lingerie store that makes em to measure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



buh 
*end rant* sorry


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## purrtykitty (Dec 4, 2007)

yeah...i've got the same problem as you. i gained a bunch of weight, therefore my boobs ballooned (the hubby appreciates them, though). anyway, a year ago i lost around 20 pounds - but my boobs stayed the same size...then i ended up gaining most of the weight back and my boobs ended up bigger than what they were before!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ok, it's not by much, but my boobs are spilling out of the 34DD bra that previously fit perfectly. ugh...and i hate trying on bras. i'm really just biding my time until i lose all the weight i want to (hopefully then the boobies will shrink some).  and don't get me started on running and sports bras.


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## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Dec 4, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MissChievous* 

 
_I absolutely HATE bra shopping. I can rarely find a bra that I like and that fits. Thing is that I like really simple and plain bras, I don't like any of those lace and embellishments on them. And, I also don't like push up bras or anything that has too much padding. It's really hard for me to find stuff in my size as well. I'm just going to order from the Internet from now on. Plus, bras are way too expensive. What a waste of money._

 
Same here. I don't like lace, or rhinestones, etc on my bras, I have a few very plain bras in a few pastel colors.

I also hate the bras that make it look like my boobs are living under my armpits, or camping out in the center. I just want them dead on ! not to the side!


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## labellavita7 (Dec 4, 2007)

I'm a 34DD and it is so hard to find a good bra, I hate how expensive it becomes to have to buy bras that fit correctly when you keep growing.  I think my boobs have finished growing at this point (hopefully) so I suppose now would be a good time to invest in several bras.  I just hate that I have to try everything on individually and can't just buy different colors of the same one.  At VS, two of their Secret Embrace bras fit be just perfectly; however, I decided to pick another one up a couple months ago and skipped trying it on since it was in the same Secret Embrace line, and it did not fit right at all.  Bra shopping is a pain in the ass.  I just wish they weren't so expensive!


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## clslvr6spd (Dec 4, 2007)

I love to buy new bras...I have just about every color from the "Very Sexy" line at Victoria's Secret. 
I am afraid to buy ones with lace on them because of my barbells and that would be a bad day if that got caught eek! I also have the issue of trying to find a 34D in certain colors, I guess it's a popular boob size, lol.


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## Beauty Mark (Dec 4, 2007)

I enjoy bra shopping, sort of. I like lace, prettiness, etc.

However, I have narrow shoulders, I'm a 32C/D (lost weight and am slowly regaining it), and I actually thinking I should wear a 30, because I am using the tightest hook setting. I just haven't felt like getting a smaller size, because a 32C/D is hard enough to find without breaking the bank. I can't imagine finding a 30D/DD without being broke. Actually, I think finding something that small is going to be almost impossible.


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## Krasevayadancer (Dec 4, 2007)

Preaching to the choir there. As a 28gg, buying bras can be the most trying experience.

Online, I love to go to bravissimo, figleaves, and barenecessities.co.uk

I also go to this great little shop in the city that sells my favs like freya, primadonna, and fantasie. A pretty penny, but at my size i need comfort, support, and prettiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





In regards to growth, I have gone from a 28d to my now 28gg over 3 yrs. That definitely hurt my wallet...


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## glam8babe (Dec 4, 2007)

haha primark! yeh they are shit... i have a few but just for like fun.. u kno like matching n stuff for the bf lol... but i kno exactly what u mean! good quality bras are more expensive.. have u ever tried La Senza? they do good quality at decent prices and they also have a website if there aint a shop near you Lingerie at La Senza - Free UK Delivery 
and i wish i was a double D lol lucky thing


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## xsnowwhite (Dec 4, 2007)

ugh i hear you! but mine shrunk! whenever i lose weight its in the wrong places. Everytime. Never lose it from my face, waist or hips its always the boobs or the butt!


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## rebekah (Dec 4, 2007)

i can't believe that you think 30 is expensive, i have to pay at LEAST $90 for a bra and on top of that get it altered!

be thankful!

I'm a 28E (E=DDDD) 
(not to mention i am 5'5" , 114lbs and i have a tiny  head so i look really fucking weird)

jeeez


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## MsCuppyCakes (Dec 4, 2007)

Wow. Im ..JJJ and I buy my bras at Wizard of Bras in Monrovia, Ca. The staff is great and will order out of stock items.


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## chocolategoddes (Dec 4, 2007)

I'm A 32G so I have to spend about 90 bucks for a well fitted decent bra. The one I'm wearing now is sooo nice but its 150 dollars. my friends are always joking about how i should do playboy and that guys are always checking out my tits. And now I'm not known as " the black girl" or " the funny girl" or even " the girl with lots of make up". I'm the "girl with the big mommas on her chest!"


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## Marielle001 (Dec 4, 2007)

I feel you on the annoying boobs! I wear a 34/36C... but they are too small in the cupsize and my boobs are always uber-cleavaged. I know I need to go up to a 34/36D at least, and all of my friends agree, but the C bras always seem so much prettier to me. Sigh. Having big boos is kind of a pain... they are pretty disproportionate to my frame and while I usually like the attention, it can get old.


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## MAC_Whore (Dec 5, 2007)

Another vote for Figleaves.  It's worth it to spend what you need to in order to get a good fit, IMO. Cheap bras break, hurt and look bad.


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## xmrsvindieselx (Dec 5, 2007)

i have no boobs. end of story.

im barely a B. it sucks.


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## Cosmopolitics (Dec 5, 2007)

Another hard-to-find size chiming in here - I'm a 30C. 

Finding bras that don't cost a fortune and/or nice-looking are impossible to find. I've been trying to find a strapless bra in my size to wear with my wedding dress next year, and even Figleaves turns up nothing except one for those with breast implants. Absolutely nothing. 

I hate it when Victoria's Secret is praised as the king of bras -- when in fact, it couldn't be farther from the truth. They only carry a very limited amount of sizes, and if you aren't a 34/36 A/B/C, tough shit, no nice-looking bras for you! It really sucks that small band sizes, petite sizes, and larger-cup bras are tough as nails to find in a design that doesn't look dowdy, or in the petite sizes, something that looks childish and immature. 

I'm learning how to sew for this very reason. I have a difficult time finding things bras that fit, my very good friend stuffs herself into two 32 D bras when she should be wearing a 28/30 F/G because she can't find anything, either. I want choices in a bra that aren't white, black, and tan. I want bras that fit. 

I am striving to become an expert bra-maker. Take that, cruel lingerie industry.


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## kittenluvsmac (Dec 5, 2007)

Well, I don't have a large chest (I'm in between a B and a C, I think), but I do have an annoying problem that's been an issue for me ever since I started wearing bras as a teen. I have very narrow shoulders, and my bra straps constantly slip down--I mean constantly! It is so awful some days I just go braless. 

The only solution I've found is to wear T-back or racerback styles, but it's so hard to find ones that fit in the cups properly. Also, I really dislike underwires because they poke, so I want wireless with a touch of padding. Apparently the style I want doesn't exist.


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## ratoo (Dec 5, 2007)

Ladies, I feel the pain - I'm a 32HH. If it wasn't for Bravissimo I'd struggle. But seriously - what's with the majority of large bras being of the granny territory? The huge straps, ugly lace full cup coverage and coming in black, cream and tan. Its taken work to find interesting bras but i'm getting there - now if we could get more reasonably priced bras in larger sizes life would be sweet


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## *Stargazer* (Dec 5, 2007)

I have stopped purchasing bras and wear nothing but tank tops with built in bras. That or even when I'm not nursing, I still wear my nursing bras. Elle Macpherson makes these amazing nursing bras that are among the only bras I can buy that fit well.


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## dollbabybex (Dec 6, 2007)

does anyone here have implants??

i always have to remove the underwiring as they never are the correct shape!!! so annoying!!

im a 32f .


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## VeXedPiNk (Dec 6, 2007)

I can totally sympathize with the growth issue! My boobs decided to go on a growing spree, topped off with some weight gain on my part that made them larger. I've shed most of the weight but they've stayed the same. My bra size is 38D.

I HATE bra shopping. Being of a small frame and only standing at 5'2", it is very hard to find a 38D bra that fits comfortably.

My biggest pet peeve though? The fact that no two bras ever seem to be the same as far as sizes. It seems like you can try on several bras in one place that all are the same size, yet none of them fit the same. ARGH!!


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## sitasati (Dec 6, 2007)

Hmmm...I have a stupid question. What does the letter of the bra mean? I never knew what it meant. I just go and look for the bras that size. I'm a 38c. So what does that mean? The only brands I can wear though are maidenform and bali.


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## MiCHiE (Dec 6, 2007)

The letter is the actual cup size, determined by the measurements of your chest and bust.


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## darkishstar (Dec 7, 2007)

Bah. Though I barely have any boobage (I'm a 34A/32B) I find that my boobs... are in between sizes! The 34A is snug, but I can still fit them. Seeing as how I have no money at all to get new bras.. I have to stick with my 34A's even though the 32B fits better now! I know they say the 34A and 32B are sister sizes.. but there really is a difference!

And then, this might be because I'm Asian or my small boobs, but Victoria's Secret push-up bras don't work for me! They just won't give me cleavage! I tried on the bra with the Diamante heart in the middle.. and pulled it so it was really tight.. with the strap hanging off the middle so it was ugly.. and STILL no cleavage. They really don't work for me. =(


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## Beauty Mark (Dec 7, 2007)

I think a brand makes "Almost" cup sizes, like if you're in between an A and B. I think it's Playtex, but I could be wrong


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## Cosmopolitics (Dec 7, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_I think a brand makes "Almost" cup sizes, like if you're in between an A and B. I think it's Playtex, but I could be wrong_

 
I'll confirm it, it's Playtex. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *darkishstar* 

 
_Bah. Though I barely have any boobage (I'm a 34A/32B) I find that my boobs... are in between sizes! The 34A is snug, but I can still fit them. Seeing as how I have no money at all to get new bras.. I have to stick with my 34A's even though the 32B fits better now! I know they say the 34A and 32B are sister sizes.. but there really is a difference!_

 
34A and 32B have the same cup size, but different band sizes. However, it's very annoying that different brands will fit better than others. I wear a 30C, which is the same cup size as those two, but again, a smaller band. 32's ride up like crazy on me.

So if you are finding that the 32 band fits you better (most women DO make the mistake of buying a bra that has too large of a band and too small of a cup), the 34's probably don't fit like they are supposed to. Too big of a band will not give you enough support (even us small gals need some).


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## Dawn (Dec 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *n_c* 

 
_I can go on and on about this topic...im a 34DD. All that I will say is that its a total bitch trying to find good bras and when you think you found the perfect one...it gets discontinued.

Btw...can any of you lovelies recommend a good brand for my size._

 
Have you tried any Wacoal bras?  I wear a 38C and Victorias Secret tried to fit me in a 34DD, 36C, 36D and nothing fit properly.  The Wacoal bra I ended up getting fits quite comfortably.  I usually would have boobage coming out the sides and the Wacoal has some added support to kind of hold it in better and the underwire doesn't dig like many of them do.  If you want the exact style, just PM me and I can give you more info.

Editing to add...  the style I wear is very smoothing, very little lace on it, so its very nice under tight/sheer shirts/blouses.  It has nice support, lifts the girls up where they need to be =) and doesn't dig into the shoulders.


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## darkishstar (Dec 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Cosmopolitics* 

 
_I'll confirm it, it's Playtex. 



34A and 32B have the same cup size, but different band sizes. However, it's very annoying that different brands will fit better than others. I wear a 30C, which is the same cup size as those two, but again, a smaller band. 32's ride up like crazy on me.

So if you are finding that the 32 band fits you better (most women DO make the mistake of buying a bra that has too large of a band and too small of a cup), the 34's probably don't fit like they are supposed to. Too big of a band will not give you enough support (even us small gals need some)._

 
Bah, I think I was measured.. 2 years ago? But I think I got bigger ever since I got to college. I have a bit of boob spillage in the front, but it's not too bad. The support is fine. I just hate that I might have to rebuy all my bras. Boooo. Bras are so damn annoying! =(


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## Beauty Mark (Dec 8, 2007)

2 years ago is a long time, especially if you've gained or lost weight. Since you say you're college, a lot of women are still growing and changing then. I was a small 32B when I started college and I went up a cup size, net-wise.

I was a 32D perfectly until about Sept. of this year and I had to rebuy my bras. I'm saving my old ones until I regain my weight


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## darkishstar (Dec 8, 2007)

I've not changed in weight. (I managed to avoid the Freshmen 15!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) But it's true that my boobs could have grown. I should go get measured again. I really don't think I'll grow anymore, but who knows? I've had small boobies my whole life. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought that boobs don't grow anymore (unless you get pregnant) 2 years after you've gotten your first period? At least, that's what I've heard. That's why I was surprised that I fit a 32B nicely now over the 34A.


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## VeXedPiNk (Dec 8, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *darkishstar* 

 
_ I thought that boobs don't grow anymore (unless you get pregnant) 2 years after you've gotten your first period? At least, that's what I've heard._

 
Nope, not true. I hit a boob growth spurt when I was about 20 years old... definitely more than 2 years after my first period. It just depends on your body.

I think boobs just grow whenever they think it'll most annoy you, haha.


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## Ms.Amaranthine (Dec 9, 2007)

I know cup sizes vary depending on the brand, but sometimes I go from a B to a D. I don't know if I'm a 34 or a 36. I genuinely think I'm always buying the wrong type of bra. I just don't have stores around here that do consulting, so for the time being, I'm on my own. They say you should be measured every year. I saw on Discovery Health that some 80% of women are wearing the wrong size for their body.


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## yummy411 (Dec 9, 2007)

i've gained weight after having a baby and then going on birth control which saddens me considering bras! while i wish my boobs were smaller, my biggest peeve is the shape.  i don't have nicely centered areolas and nipples. my boobs are bigger on top, putting the areola lower.. i wish i was fuller on the bottom.  so i'm always trying to find a big enough bra, a bra with adequate support AND something that will change the appearance of the shape of my breasts. i know they are huge, but huge and diving head first to my feet =((( i'm too young for this! so i started looking for 3 sectional bras (the cups are cut in 3 sections, helping to uplift the breast) SUPER hard to find.  now i've resorted to the formed bras (???) they aren't padded so that breast can appear fuller, but they have that foam to give the breast better looking form. i'm sure there's a name/better description for it, but i'm new to them.  this is my saving grace. i tried a target bra... just to experiment. not perfect, but i'm pleased. i'm looking for more!!! yipppeee... the only part is that i'm used to thick straps and more coverage on my back =/ than tiny bands.  if you have a little extra baggage like i do, you'll understand why this is preferred LOL.  i love that this topic is being discussed as this is one garment that will totally lower my esteem =/


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## V15U4L_3RR0R (Dec 9, 2007)

I try and get measured every six months. But there can be a bit of variation wherever you go so I get a few different sizes to try on and then go for the one that fits me best and stuck with that.

I'm sure there are sites that can tell you how to measure yourself and work out your bra size. They won't be perfect but they'll be a good rough guide.

I just wish they did bras with padding over a D cup. I can't seem to find anything over a D that isn't padded. They all seem to just be unpadded lacy type things. I don't mind it much but I like the shape I get from padded bras and I think that unpadded ones make me look too pointy lol.


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## MiCHiE (Dec 9, 2007)

GOD, I HATE the Weezy Jefferson Missile Model bras!


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## captodometer (Dec 10, 2007)

My rant is the lack of size standardization: my bra size will vary depending on which brand of bra I'm buying.  And size creep: I haven't gained or lost any weight in the last decade, but I somehow miraculously gained almost two cup sizes.  I think it's vanity sizing by bra manufacturers; it's not like I suddenly started popping buttons off my older shirts and dresses!

One of the girls is a large B cup; the other is a small C.  I wore a 34/36B in almost everything, until I started wearing Victoria's Secret.  Then I was suddenly a 34C.  I went bra shopping earlier this year at Bare Necessities: they carry multiple brands.  36D, 36DD on almost everything. And there were some brands where the 36DD was too small!


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## Beauty Mark (Dec 10, 2007)

I wouldn't be surprised if there is vanity sizing in bras. So many women get damn near giddy when they go up a cup size.


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## NutMeg (Dec 10, 2007)

^Hahaha! That was me when I finally broke into a B cup. I did a little dance, it was sad and joyful at the same time.


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## darkishstar (Dec 10, 2007)

^ I did the same!


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## thestarsfall (Dec 10, 2007)

Your breast never stop growing (or shrinking)...they fluctuate all the time.  Hell, I gain like half a cup size (and then lose it again) every month just from PMS.

My bras will tell you I am a 38DD, but they are wrong.  But I don't have the fundage to purchase correct fitting bras so I deal with the problems somewhat.  I have to wear the back on the smallest one most of the time, and then I sometimes spill over in the front and get the "double each boob" effect.  If I have money in the new year I will go to the one shop that I know of here and get sized.

And I NEED to have padding...I have pierced nipples...if there is no padding...everyone knows.


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