# Long Time MAC users -has quality declined since being taken over by EL?



## athena123 (Dec 27, 2007)

I've heard from a couple of longtime MAC users who claim the quality of MAC has declined since being taken over by the huge conglomerate that is EL. What is your opinion of this? 

I'm too new to MAC to tell... I do find the trend that every cosmetic under the sun is now under either the Loreal or Estee Lauder umbrella rather disturbing; eventually we'll have very few choices left should this continue.


----------



## frocher (Dec 27, 2007)

.....


----------



## athena123 (Dec 27, 2007)

Whoops, sorry for beating a dead horse.... I used the advanced search to try and find existing topics but came up with zilch. Keywords monopoly, takeover, estee lauder. Would it be possible to point me to existing threads? 

Thanks!


----------



## glamella (Dec 29, 2007)

nope, not IMO. I think it's gotten better over the years. The line that suffered under EL was Stila IMO.


----------



## Turbokittykat (Dec 29, 2007)

Yes, quality has definitely declined. It's even been noticable over the past 5 years or so. I used to buy virtually everything from every collection, now I find there is very little I actually want. Partly this has been due to giving up work so having to be more careful with money, but mostly it's been the realisation that most of what's released now is a re-vamp (or a duplicate) of a previous product, or simply fails to live up to my expectations in some way.


----------



## FrazzledOne (Dec 29, 2007)

Since I am a shadow ho, I can only comment on them but I agree, the quality has declined since EL took over. I have been using MAC since 2000 and the pigmentation and texture of the shadows since then have been, to put it nicely, not so good. 
Plus with the "collection of the week" , I think they are flooding the market with too much product and most of the LE items can be duplicated with older stuff. Besides, how many shades of green eyeshadow can one make?


----------



## seymone25 (Dec 30, 2007)

I have been using MAC forever and the quality of products have changed for the worst, specifically with the foundations.


----------



## bellasera (Dec 30, 2007)

^^ I agree with you about the foundations.  I don't by them from MAC anymore.


----------



## SMMY (Dec 30, 2007)

The foundations are pretty bad. I rarely have problems with breakouts, but MAC foundations irritate my skin badly.


----------



## christal24 (Dec 30, 2007)

yup I totally agree with you! I never use any MAC concealers, powders or foundations anymore.....totally make me break out.  I use mineral foundation or MUFE foundation


----------



## athena123 (Dec 30, 2007)

I tried a sample of their mineral satinfinish but it turned colors on me. Think I"ll stick to the MAC eyeshadows and lip colors; they're so bright and vivid compared to the natural/organic eyes and lips I've been using!


----------



## Macnarsandlove (Dec 30, 2007)

the quality in brush sets and some of the lipcolors i have seen the quality decline. the brush i have from 6 yrs ago look better than the ones i have got in holiday 06


----------



## cloudburst (Jan 1, 2008)

I started buying MAC when it was still only available in Canada and eyeshadows were only $8.00 CND!!!  I remember my first purchase was Mylar e/s...

Anyways, the main area I have noticed a decline in quality has been the brushes.  MAC brushes used to all be made in France & the natural tapered "tip" of each animal hair was maintained and carefully aligned to shape the brush.  Now I find many of their brushes have had the ends of the hair cut to create the brush shape.  Brushes with cut ends don't lay pigment down as nicely as ones w/ the natural tips maintained.  As well, they used to offer a wider array of brush shapes & types.

The other area I find has changed considerably has been their colour stories.  I find that after EL bought out MAC , their colour stories became alot more trendy with less "substance".

All this being said I still love MAC & many of their products.  They are still one of the best dept store brands out there.


----------



## lainz (Jan 1, 2008)

am i the only person that hasnt noticed a negative change? ive been using mac for a number of years now and i am in no way unhappy with any products...except for their moisturizers....but thats cuz my skin is picky about cleansers and moisturizers.


----------



## CaraAmericana (Jan 1, 2008)

Anyone know off hand when it was specifically that EL bought MAC


----------



## COBI (Jan 1, 2008)

EL became majority-owner in 1994, and acquired remaining equity in 1998.  So, it's been a long-time, and I imagine many changes were/are subtle to the average consumer versus a "power" user such as an MA, afficiando or such.  I am not sure that I had ever heard of MAC in 1994, being 19 and in an area that didn't have MAC available at that time (or even 4 years later.)

The Estee Lauder Companies Inc. to Acquire Remaining Equity Interest in M.A.C=


----------



## MACa6325xi (Jan 1, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *smith130* 

 
_the quality in brush sets and some of the lipcolors i have seen the quality decline. the brush i have from 6 yrs ago look better than the ones i have got in holiday 06_

 
I agree that the quality of the brush sets has declined. I know that an SE brush set that I purchased over 10 years ago was of better quality than the ones manufactured now. I also think my 129 brushes that I bought years ago are better quality than the ones they make now.


----------



## rouquinne (Jan 2, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *cloudburst* 

 
_I started buying MAC when it was still only available in Canada and eyeshadows were only $8.00 CND!!!  I remember my first purchase was Mylar e/s..._

 
did you start with the counter at the old Simpson's store on Queen Street in Toronto?

 Quote:

  The other area I find has changed considerably has been their colour stories.  I find that after EL bought out MAC , their colour stories became alot more trendy with less "substance".  
 
oh, yes!

 Quote:

  All this being said I still love MAC & many of their products.  They are still one of the best dept store brands out there.  
 
i am still loyal to MAC, but i have to agree with Frazzled about flooding the market with too much similar product.  case in point - TwigTwig in the "Originals" collection - being a lustre, it's practically a dupe for Entwined and VG5 and VG6.

however, the super-milling technology available now for some eye shadows (Veluxe and Veluxe Pearl) and powders (hello Select Sheer!) offer improvements in those areas.  of course, all makeup companies have that technology available to them too.

of course, it's nothing like the beginnings when you would see Frank Toskan himself and he'd say "hello, angela, i've got this new shade of X that i think would be gorgeous on you!"

*sigh*


----------



## cloudburst (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rouquinne* 

 
_did you start with the counter at the old Simpson's store on Queen Street in Toronto?

i am still loyal to MAC, but i have to agree with Frazzled about flooding the market with too much similar product. case in point - TwigTwig in the "Originals" collection - being a lustre, it's practically a dupe for Entwined and VG5 and VG6.

however, the super-milling technology available now for some eye shadows (Veluxe and Veluxe Pearl) and powders (hello Select Sheer!) offer improvements in those areas. of course, all makeup companies have that technology available to them too.

of course, it's nothing like the beginnings when you would see Frank Toskan himself and he'd say "hello, angela, i've got this new shade of X that i think would be gorgeous on you!"

*sigh*_

 
Rouquinne - no alas I did not start w/ Simpson's in T.O, you got me beat there!  I first bought MAC when it first appeared at the Bay, (this might have been when EL was distributing them (1994), but did not have any creative influence).

Did you ever go to one of those seminars MAC used to throw for their customers?


----------



## rouquinne (Jan 4, 2008)

cloudburst, i used to buy my makeup directly from Frank and Frank before they had the Simpson's counter.  (i'm 47.)

MAC still has customer seminars.  i haven't gone to any since i moved here to London 2 years ago, but when i lived in Ottawa, i went to them alllllll the time!!!  ask your fav MA about getting on their mailing list and they'll let you know about them.  once i won the gift basket and another time i got to be the guinea pig!


----------



## legolassildarin (Jan 5, 2008)

Estee Lauder own Makeup Forever but i havent noticed any change in the quality they make and so in Prescriptives or Clinique....sometimes i feel these things are like bad-mouthings of the brand coz its way successful than others....MAC has to prove them wrong.The MSFs that i got and studio fix are of excellent quality comparable to the Shiseido Luminising Powder dat i use..


----------



## erynnj (Jan 5, 2008)

yes it has gone down i started using mac in 2000 right before it blew up, i noticed that studio fix is CRAP and it used to be so good, and the shadows arent what they were. esp the le ones. the colors don't even show up. not to mention the quality of the pigments has declined too, you cant really compare the originals like Blue, green and gold to the new ones. Don't get me wrong i still love mac and love some of the original stuff but they just aren't what they used to be. and Makeup forever is not an Estee lauder owned company.


----------



## SMMY (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *legolassildarin* 

 
_Estee Lauder own Makeup Forever but i havent noticed any change in the quality they make and so in Prescriptives or Clinique....sometimes i feel these things are like bad-mouthings of the brand coz its way successful than others....MAC has to prove them wrong.The MSFs that i got and studio fix are of excellent quality comparable to the Shiseido Luminising Powder dat i use.._

 
FYI: Makeup Forever is owned by LVMH, not Estee Lauder.

ETA: I agree with erynnj, that the quality of MAC isn't as high as it could be. I think if you have been around for awhile and have used some of the older MAC products, you'd understand it's not about "badmouthing the brand" but just being realistic.


----------



## lara (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Turbokittykat* 

 
_Yes, quality has definitely declined. It's even been noticable over the past 5 years or so. *I used to buy virtually everything from every collection*, now I find there is very little I actually want. Partly this has been due to giving up work so having to be more careful with money, but mostly it's been the realisation that most of *what's released now is a re-vamp (or a duplicate) of a previous product*, or simply fails to live up to my expectations in some way._

 
I don't think that's an indication of declining quality than simply you own so much product that you can recognise items that are similar to what you own. As someone else said, there's only so many shades of green you can release before overlapping starts to appear.

Brands evolve constantly, formulas and products are constantly tweaked to match the market. What one person might see as a decline, another person might see as an improvement. I personally feel that MAC is trucking along evenly and has had some improvements since the late nineties - the quality of colour stories has improved immensely, the branding and imaging is leaps and bounds ahead of what it used to be, and the rate of new product (i.e. Slimshines, Chromeglasses, Matte Squared, etc etc etc) has picked up considerably in the last year or so. To me that balances out the random dud eyeshadows or fairly thoughtless colour stories (Blue Storm, for example). Foundation is a major hit and miss issue for every brand, so I can't say that it's particularly better or worse with MAC. The formulas available have certainly increased, so maybe it's an issue of people buying Studio Fix when it's not suitable for their skin rather than the product itself being inherently at fault. The skincare has certainly improved by leaps and bounds since EL took full control, that's for sure.

Also, just to play Devils Advocate again re: the increase in pale pastel, chalky, lustre and sparkle eyeshadows that everyone has an issue with: the increase in these is probably an indication of MACs increasing appeal in the Asian market. Product needs to reflect the market with the most growth potential rather than the current established markets who need less coddling and encouragement to purchase, and right now that growth market happens to primarily buy sheer, soft light colours with sparkle. In ten years the market potential might shift to India and the Middle East and then everyone will be complaining about how MAC never releases anything but dark eyeliners and copper eyeshadows, who knows?


----------



## rouquinne (Jan 6, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lara* 

 
_Also, just to play Devils Advocate again re: the increase in pale pastel, chalky, lustre and sparkle eyeshadows that everyone has an issue with: the increase in these is probably an indication of MACs increasing appeal in the Asian market. Product needs to reflect the market with the most growth potential rather than the current established markets who need less coddling and encouragement to purchase, and right now that growth market happens to primarily buy sheer, soft light colours with sparkle. In ten years the market potential might shift to India and the Middle East and then everyone will be complaining about how MAC never releases anything but dark eyeliners and copper eyeshadows, who knows?_

 
sorry, lara, but that theory doesn't hold water.  MAC got its origins in Toronto, which, even in the 1980s, was one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the world.  this is why MAC was one of the best choices for women of colour from the very origins of the company.  if Lauder was really trying to cater to the Asian market, all of their companies would be going in the same direction, but i don't see Prescriptives or Clinique doing lots of sheer, soft, light and sparkly.

then again, they also aren't doing the dark stuff that we find in a Nocturnelle or Smoke Signals collection either.  or the brights of a Barbie collection...


----------



## clamster (Jan 6, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamella* 

 
_The line that suffered under EL was Stila IMO._

 
Yeah nordstrom doesn't carry stila anymore! There used to be a boutique near me that seemed to be doing very well and now it's gone! Poor stila it seems to be suffering terribly.


----------



## mydarlingkate (Jan 7, 2008)

Oh, for sure!  I used to ADORE MAC and would not even consider trying out other lines... but although the colors are (and still) amazing, the formula is different...


----------



## iheartcolor (Jan 7, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamella* 

 
_The line that suffered under EL was Stila IMO._

 
Agreed.  I think since they have been sold, they are getting back on their feet.  Their shadows are once again amazing!

-Lauren


----------



## Meryl (Jan 9, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *smith130* 

 
_the quality in brush sets and some of the lipcolors i have seen the quality decline. the brush i have from 6 yrs ago look better than the ones i have got in holiday 06_

 
The brushes vary from year to year.

I have the original brushes from 1985 (made in France) and they are so scratchy compared to the newer ones.  I can't use them, although I'll never throw them out.

I've been using MAC since I discovered it at Simpsons in 1985 and I do think the quality of all their products has greatly improved... it's just not the same gentle company without the two Franks, that's all.


----------



## cloudburst (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rouquinne* 

 
_sorry, lara, but that theory doesn't hold water. MAC got its origins in Toronto, which, even in the 1980s, was one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the world. this is why MAC was one of the best choices for women of colour from the very origins of the company. if Lauder was really trying to cater to the Asian market, all of their companies would be going in the same direction, but i don't see Prescriptives or Clinique doing lots of sheer, soft, light and sparkly.

then again, they also aren't doing the dark stuff that we find in a Nocturnelle or Smoke Signals collection either. or the brights of a Barbie collection..._

 
I have to agree Rouquinne - I think the true reason MAC's colour stories are less adventurous does not have anything to do w/ catering to one specific ethnic group.  I think the problem is they are trying to please everyone! When you try to cater to as large a market as possible, you are bound to make your collections more acessible, and for us makeup junkies & afficiandos, less interesting.  I think some of the movement towards less pigmented colours & sparkles etc. might have to do with capturing a younger audience.  I think most pre-teens & teens probably prefer lighter colours (at least, I'm sure their mom's probably approve more!).


----------



## indiekicks (Mar 21, 2014)

I probably don't qualify as a long-time user, but I still say yes. I never got into he collection hoopla, but even I can see they're phoning it in now. The only things I NEED from MAC anymore that I would have to buy on a semi-regular basis is Ruby Woo.


----------

