# The Dow and The Economy



## MAC_Whore (Sep 29, 2008)

......


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## rbella (Sep 29, 2008)

Well, with the new announcement,  I see major freakouts occuring....


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## MAC_Whore (Sep 29, 2008)

Agreed.  I also see a good amount of my money flushed down the big, bailout toilet.  Gahhhh!


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## ginger9 (Sep 29, 2008)

Oi vey!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Mommy make it stop....calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean....


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## PuterChick (Sep 29, 2008)

We are witnessing some very scary times in the U.S.!  I pray that things will improve with time.


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## rbella (Sep 29, 2008)

I don't like people jackin' with my money.  Oh hell no.


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## elegant-one (Sep 29, 2008)

I just briefly heard that it is Wall Streets reaction to not getting the plan settled....the dow is coming back slowly...we'll see

Also, Representatives were flooded with calls that people did not want the bail out.  Who knows what will happen - don't panic


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## thelove4tequila (Sep 29, 2008)

OH.MY.GOD.

I can't believe it. Ugh.....


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## MAC_Whore (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *elegant-one* 

 
_I just briefly heard that it is Wall Streets reaction to not getting the plan settled....the dow is coming back slowly...we'll see

Also, Representatives were flooded with calls that people did not want the bail out.  Who knows what will happen - don't panic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Generally, I'm one not to buy into the panic.  I follow the ride-it-out rule.  This though, just feels so very not good.


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## ginger9 (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MAC_Whore* 

 
_Generally, I'm one not to buy into the panic.  I follow the ride-it-out rule.  This though, just feels so very not good._

 
So do I. 

This time all the change has fallen out of my pocket, I've vomited the corn dog I ate all over my shirt, and I'm just about to pee my pants. Don't know how much longer I can stay on this ride...


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## MAC_Whore (Sep 29, 2008)

We are now down 777 points, beating our previous record drop following 9/11.


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## MACLovin (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes, this is pretty scary. I really hope we have some intelligent people behind the scenes working to make this EXTREMELY crucial decision a wise one, because if not things can only get worse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




It sucks that hard-working people have to suffer monetarily for others' greed and stupid decisions. Admittedly, I don't know a ton about Wall Street and the intricacies of the global market, however I do know that there are a lot of greedy, rich douchebags with a lot of control over others' money and there is too much corruption and not enough oversight as to what the hell is going on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  People need answers, and they need their money to not be swindled away while Mr. CEO is takin' it easy in Tahiti with his $32 MIL bonus money.


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## TISH1124 (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_Well, with the new announcement, I see major freakouts occuring...._

 
I agree!


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## ShugAvery2001 (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *PuterChick* 

 
_We are witnessing some very scary times in the U.S.!  I pray that things will improve with time._

 



They always do.... 
What's interesting to me is how all this is happening so close to a presidential election.

But scary times indeed. What's even scarier to me is the fact that Paulson is so closely tied to Goldman Saks and how much of his own personal benifits may be tied to getting his hands on this 700 BILLION..

I'm really torn.. I'm kinda glad they didn't give him the money. The bill specifies that Paulson would be able to do whatever 'HE SEE'S FIT' with that money WITH NO OVERSIGHT...

bump dat! 

It's not even guaranteed that this package will turn the economy around. Remember everything is cyclic. And the US is due cause we've had it great for the last few decades.


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 29, 2008)

I worry about it a lot. I don't understand why, if government interference is needed so badly, why they didn't do it sooner than later.

The idea of a bailout bothers me a lot, though I can't say I have a better solution. It just seems like it's rewarding financial irresponsibility and that isn't very American, for lack of a better term


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## ShugAvery2001 (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_I worry about it a lot. I don't understand why, if government interference is needed so badly, why they didn't do it sooner than later._

 

IMO the reason you're being bombarded with all of this now is because we're apprx. 40 days out of our national elections.

Don't trip save some money try to lay off the credit and work hard

Economist have been debating the eventuality of the housing bubble bursting FOR YEARRRRRRRRRRRS
look at this blurb from the Economist from 05

The global housing boom | In come the waves | Economist.com
The global housing boom
Jun 16th 2005 
From The Economist print edition

NEVER before have real house prices risen so fast, for so long, in so many countries. Property markets have been frothing from America, Britain and Australia to France, Spain and China. Rising property prices helped to prop up the world economy after the stockmarket bubble burst in 2000. What if the housing boom now turns to bust?

According to estimates by The Economist, the total value of residential property in developed economies rose by more than $30 trillion over the past five years, to over $70 trillion, an increase equivalent to 100% of those countries' combined GDPs. Not only does this dwarf any previous house-price boom, it is larger than the global stockmarket bubble in the late 1990s (an increase over five years of 80% of GDP) or America's stockmarket bubble in the late 1920s (55% of GDP). In other words, it looks like the biggest bubble in history. …


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 29, 2008)

I think the idea of saving money and working hard is a great one, but I feel like I am doing that already. I see grocery store prices rise all the time. However, I don't think there's much I can do.

While I think the bailout may be politically motivated, it doesn't help that we're seeing major banks sold off and that we're seeing the stock market affected like this.


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## *Stargazer* (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ShugAvery2001* 

 
_They always do.... 
What's interesting to me is how all this is happening so close to a presidential election.

But scary times indeed. What's even scarier to me is the fact that Paulson is so closely tied to Goldman Saks and how much of his own personal benifits may be tied to getting his hands on this 700 BILLION..

I'm really torn.. I'm kinda glad they didn't give him the money. The bill specifies that Paulson would be able to do whatever 'HE SEE'S FIT' with that money WITH NO OVERSIGHT...

bump dat! 

It's not even guaranteed that this package will turn the economy around. Remember everything is cyclic. And the US is due cause we've had it great for the last few decades._

 

AND HE WANTED IMMUNITY FROM FUTURE PROSECUTION!!!!!

I am seriously glad this BS package failed. 

Did you see the oversight committee they wanted to create was going to consist of the same a-holes and offices who have watched this crap go on for 20 years? Foxes in the henhouse. Foxes.


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## *Stargazer* (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_I think the idea of saving money and working hard is a great one, but I feel like I am doing that already. I see grocery store prices rise all the time. However, I don't think there's much I can do.

While I think the bailout may be politically motivated, it doesn't help that we're seeing major banks sold off and that we're seeing the stock market affected like this._

 
That WAMU sale was absurd. The gov't didn't want to have to make the FDIC payments when WAMU customers started pulling their money. They seized the bank and basically gifted it to Chase. Chase paid 1.9 billion (to the GOV'T!!) for 310 BILLION dollars in assets, only about 10% of which are bad (home loans). 

Know who makes out like a bandit in that deal? Rockefellers. I believe one of them represents W.Va.


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 29, 2008)

It isn't just WaMu that worries me. Didn't Citi just buy Wachovia?


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## couturesista (Sep 29, 2008)

^^ yup^^


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## ShugAvery2001 (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_I think the idea of saving money and working hard is a great one, but I feel like I am doing that already. I see grocery store prices rise all the time. However, I don't think there's much I can do.

While I think the bailout may be politically motivated, it doesn't help that we're seeing major banks sold off and that we're seeing the stock market affected like this._

 

yeah .. food and gas prices aren't directly related to this particular crisis. 

 Quote:

  http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-rising-food-prices-eating/story.aspx?guid={E2C47792-2693-48BF-8967-26B070F10EBF}
The factors driving higher food prices are unlikely to go away any time soon:
Ethanol. The ethanol boom has driven corn prices up 70% in a year. Now more land is planted in corn, and soybeans, wheat, oats, and barley are all up from 5% to 35%. Plus, higher corn prices mean higher prices for animals in the food chain that eat it - such as chickens, cows, and hogs. Corn is also a key ingredient in a long list of processed foods like breakfast cereal, and so far, producers have been able to pass these cost increases on - another sign of a fundamentally inflationary environment.
Higher distribution costs. Energy hits on two fronts: It costs more to process food and it costs more to move it all to market.
World demand. The "China effect" on energy prices has been well documented. But it also affects food. Food exports have grown as living standards in China, India and other growing economies have risen. That's good for the economy but not for prices.  
 
But as far as the Bank failures, I'm not saying that this whole issue is being fabricated out of thin air ... I'm just saying that all economies go through these types of cycles. Yeah you will have to cut back on alot of spending but .. i mean .. just think if you were in a third world country and facing this. I think we'll all mostly be okay. I don't think we have to worry about food riots and the like.

just my opinion though


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## *Stargazer* (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_It isn't just WaMu that worries me. Didn't Citi just buy Wachovia?_

 

Yeah, they did. It's not uncommon, though. Taken out of the current situation, Citi buying Wachovia wouldn't be much more than a blip. It's prime time for the big three (Citi, BOA and Chase) to start purchasing. Kinda like the buy low, sell high equivalent for banking. 

I'm more distressed that the gov't is picking and choosing who to bail out (AIG but not Lehman). It's scary when I read and see that the Secretary of the Treasury used to be on the board at Goldman Sachs. I don't think these cabinet positions should go to guys who used to be in the industry. It reeks of conflict of interest.


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## ShugAvery2001 (Sep 29, 2008)

girlfriend
i'm not trying to minimize what you're feeling .. it's justified. we all just gotta pray for the best


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## elegant-one (Sep 29, 2008)

Its wisdom to _never_ sign onto anything quickly, hence it may have been prudent that this plan was not rushed through. God knows once the gov't puts anything into play, it is very difficult to undo it.


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## Ruby_Woo (Sep 29, 2008)

It seriously stresses me out. Just reading all of this, watching it all over the news, makes me PHYSICALLY feel ill. I feel a stress on back and my body aches, its so weird. ugh. 

Im trying to not let it get to me, but seriously. This is bad.

And the less people spend the worse it gets. agh! Is it november yet?


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## xxManBeaterxx (Sep 30, 2008)

As a new homeowner this really frightens me.  Imagine all the people who have to now foreclose, because they got loans they could hardly afford in the first place, now they are homeless.. A lot of people are going to be losing their jobs... its a really scary and insecure feeling..

The president is supposed to make an announcement at 8:45am, i hope congress gets their act together and figures something out soon, or we will be facing a very long and painful recession.


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## vireland (Sep 30, 2008)

I think the media is partially to blame for this whole panic mode about the bail out. Now that everyone thinks its a "bail out" most of the public is against it. If you really read the reasons behind this package (and it is a package) you'll see that we really do need this to be passed. The reason being is that this really has to do with the credit crunch..banks will fail, no one will be able to loan money. It will be harder for anyone to get a loan for a mortgage, or a car. It will be harder for any of us to get credit. Unless you pay for everything in cash you will be SOL. (sorry but I'm in the financial services industry and it just pains me to hear people complain about this package when they don't realize how much its necessary). Businesses will not be able to run ...b/c they will not have the credit to buy any thing...do you see this domino effect? Not to mention the fact that people will be out of jobs. These are very serious and scary times. Please read about this package...the whole media has spinned this into bailing out wall street bankers and this really isn't the case the truth of the matter is that millions of people are dependent on jobs in this industry and every consumer in this country will be impacted in one way or another (not just by paying taxes) but through credit. This package needs to get passed.


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## CantAffordMAC (Sep 30, 2008)

I really dont understand any of it...


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## xxManBeaterxx (Sep 30, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *CantAffordMAC* 

 
_I really dont understand any of it...




_

 
Its really hard to understand and explain especially since there are sooo many factors that affect the US and world economy.

Back when the economy was doing pretty good, it was easy to get loans, and start small businesses.  Loans were given to people who were barely getting by with their finances so if anything happens to their jobs or if their loan interest rates increase they can no longer pay for their house.  People were buying homes greater than their income, and the banks were stupid enough to approve them... And if they cant afford to pay anymore all they have to do is claim bankruptcy.  Lets say you got a loan for 500,000 and you could no longer afford your mortgage, so you claim bankruptcy and the house sells for 300,000... you get away scotch free and the bank is out 200,000 dollars, have thousands of people make bad decisions like this you got a huge mess...

  And the DOW on wall street is something like the top 40 companies in the USA, and they also made very very bad investments with their money that lead to their bankruptcy.  And if they go bankrupt it will effect wall street immensely, they were basically our bloodline of the economy. And they did make bad investments, and they did go bankrupt, now wall street is crumbling as we speak, but they arent mostly to blame... The american people also did this to themselves, why buy a home if you cant afford it?? 

So what congress came up with was a package plan to help wall street and try to keep the us economy from going into a painful recession.  the bill was supposed to give 700 billion dollars of taxpayer money to the top 10 or so companies on wall street so they can help get back on their feet, but there is still a very high chance wall street would still fail and the taxpayers are out 700 billion because of bad investments.   But many argue.. why give 700 billion of OUR MONEY to help companies who f**ked up themselves in the first place?? thats not fair..!!! So on monday sept. 29, the bill had to pass through the United states house of rep, before it could take effect, and the bill was rejected two hours before wall street was about to close.  So during that time investors panicked and removed their money out of wall street and the DOW went down to -777.68 points, its HUGE, normally it goes down -10 points or so, but -777!?! That's INSANE!!!! Im not sure the numbers but lets pretend at 7am to 3pm DOW was at -300 points, then in 10 minutes when congress announced the bill didnt pass, in 10 minutes the dow dropped -400 points for a total of -700 points, and it would have dropped more but wall street closed for the day they close at 4 or 5pm... and it will drop even more by tomorrow unless our US GOVERNMENT acts quickly.... 

So what does this mean to the American people??? Since companies are going bankrupt people will get laid off, they wont be able to pay for their mortgages, and the price of goods will increase a ton before they decrease again... multiply that by millions of people around the world and you got a crisis.  People are going to be facing very hard and difficult times..  What happened in the USA today will affect the whole world starting tuesday morning.  People wont travel, wont eat out, prices are rising everywhere including gas and groceries yet their paycheck is staying the same or worse.. decreasing?? No way people can keep up like that.. no way..

Millions are going to be homeless and on unemployment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I dont know a lot about it but, thats just a small dose of whats happening....

p.s. im sure some of what i said is/could be untrue or wrong, i dont know much about it besides from what i read in newspapers.. so feel free to correct my errors!!


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## rbella (Sep 30, 2008)

^^^Just a heads up.  The price of gas where I am lowered significantly from around $3.80 to $3.35 a gallon.  Don't know what will happen today, though.


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## redambition (Sep 30, 2008)

sadly, it's all part of the cycle of economics (economy go up, economy go down).

i have to admit that this down is hitting harder and faster than what i was expecting, but given the boom we've all been riding on for so long, it's been inevitable.

it is scary and i am worried about how what is happening over in the USA will affect me over here (our stock market had a hefty fall today as well thanks to the Dow). i hope everything pans out to be ok. i know there will be some tough times ahead, i'm hoping they won't be so bad though.


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## Krasevayadancer (Sep 30, 2008)

Being in NYC, its esp scary to me because I physically see these formally busy booming bustling buildings shutting down. I work at a financial giant and the climate is definitely uneasy.


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## MAC_Whore (Sep 30, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *rbella* 

 
_^^^Just a heads up.  The price of gas where I am lowered significantly from around $3.80 to $3.35 a gallon.  Don't know what will happen today, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
That is the only good news in all of this.  Generally, the snakey, slimey MFers who produce, export and refine the gas/oil products will only charge as much as they think they can get away with.  When the economy tanks, the gas prices go down.


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## concertina (Sep 30, 2008)

I am terrified to to check our investment's status. I don't even want to open the screens to see the damage. 

Its taking every bit of willpower to not pull everything and shove it under my mattress. In my head, I know thats not logical and will make things worse...but emotionally, I just feel drained and beaten.


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 30, 2008)

Quote:

  Lets say you got a loan for 500,000 and you could no longer afford your mortgage, so you claim bankruptcy and the house sells for 300,000... you get away scotch free and the bank is out 200,000 dollars, have thousands of people make bad decisions like this you got a huge mess...

And the DOW on wall street is something like the top 40 companies in the USA, and they also made very very bad investments with their money that lead to their bankruptcy. And if they go bankrupt it will effect wall street immensely, they were basically our bloodline of the economy. And they did make bad investments, and they did go bankrupt, now wall street is crumbling as we speak, but they arent mostly to blame... The american people also did this to themselves, why buy a home if you cant afford it??  
 
The only small changes I'd say to your post is that bankruptcy ruins your credit for awhile (years). I would never claim bankruptcy unless it were necessary, since so many apartments require credit checks. You don't truly get away from your financial troubles.


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## *Stargazer* (Sep 30, 2008)

DJIA's up 350. Interesting. 


If anyone is interested in something terribly hard to read, check out this link. 
Credit default swap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This appears to be something that is fueling the current crisis that is not being widely reported.


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## MAC_Whore (Sep 30, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by **Stargazer** 

 
_DJIA's up 350. Interesting....._

 
All of the opportunists sweeping in to buy low.  I may too.  

One of my investment shifts that I initiated prior to this mess was processed before the shit hit the fan.  I ended up _thousands _ahead, because of a few stinkin' days.


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## *Stargazer* (Sep 30, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MAC_Whore* 

 
_All of the opportunists sweeping in to buy low.  I may too.  

One of my investment shifts that I initiated prior to this mess was processed before the shit hit the fan.  I ended up thousands ahead, because of a few stinkin' days._

 

Yup. When opportunity knocks, I buy


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## reesesilverstar (Sep 30, 2008)

I don't know what to say anymore on this topic...


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## kimmy (Oct 1, 2008)

i just got really mad yesterday because i found out that my employer had almost all of my retirement money invested in aig. ouch. i have a 401k with nationwide, and the guy was like "you're young so at least you have a long time to rebuild what you've lost," i was like "yeah that really didn't make me feel a whole lot better, dude."

i wish i could just keep _all_ my money and invest it the way i want to,  seems like employers make pretty shitty investment decisions, but i guess when it's someone else working for that money they just don't really care.


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## xxManBeaterxx (Oct 1, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *kimmy* 

 
_i just got really mad yesterday because i found out that my employer had almost all of my retirement money invested in aig. ouch. i have a 401k with nationwide, and the guy was like "you're young so at least you have a long time to rebuild what you've lost," i was like "yeah that really didn't make me feel a whole lot better, dude."

i wish i could just keep all my money and invest it the way i want to, seems like employers make pretty shitty investment decisions, but i guess when it's someone else working for that money they just don't really care._

 







 goodluck with that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





The only upside is that AIG was given 85 billion dollars by the government, so im sure they will be fine


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## MAC_Whore (Oct 1, 2008)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *kimmy* 

 
_i just got really mad yesterday because i found out that my employer had almost all of my retirement money invested in aig. ouch. i have a 401k with nationwide, and the guy was like "you're young so at least you have a long time to rebuild what you've lost," i was like "yeah that really didn't make me feel a whole lot better, dude."

i wish i could just keep all my money and invest it the way i want to,  seems like employers make pretty shitty investment decisions, but i guess when it's someone else working for that money they just don't really care._

 
That sucks!  I am so sorry.  Does your employer allow you to pick your own funds for your 401k?  A lot of plans allow that.  They allow you to diversify the types of investments (i.e. Real Estate, Tech, etc) and for you to pick according to your desired risk level (conservative v. aggressive).  Look into that.

AIG = Ain't It Grotesque


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## rbella (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm just ever so happy that my husband's life insurance policy is with AIG.  I am also ever so happy that they have a big "headquarters" type building across the street from my apartment so that I can look out the window daily and bask in the glow of the insurance company my money helped to save.


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