# Photo Retouching vs the Real Picture



## ratmist (Aug 15, 2007)

I saw this website and thought it was interesting:  http://www.iwanexstudio.com/

If you go to the 'portfolio' on the page, there are a lot of pictures of celebrities that give a before-retouching / after-retouching glimpse of reality.

It made me smile.  Also, I was really amused how Halle Barry needed virtually no retouching, just unnecessary warming and brightening of the picture's tone.  Woman takes a great photo!  Some of the ladies look really gaunt in their faces in the before shots, particularly Eva Longoria.  It's interesting to see, anyway.


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## xkriss (Aug 15, 2007)

i think brittany murphy is still adorable without it


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## aziajs (Aug 15, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ratmist* 

 
_I saw this website and thought it was interesting:  http://www.iwanexstudio.com/

If you go to the 'portfolio' on the page, there are a lot of pictures of celebrities that give a before-retouching / after-retouching glimpse of reality.

It made me smile.  Also, I was really amused how Halle Barry needed virtually no retouching, just unnecessary warming and brightening of the picture's tone.  Woman takes a great photo!  Some of the ladies look really gaunt in their faces in the before shots, particularly Eva Longoria.  It's interesting to see, anyway._

 
Did you see that site on Dlisted???  Michael K just posted about it today.

Anyway, I noticed that Halle needed virtually no re-touching.  She's just a beautiful woman.  I love her.

I also noticed how they made some waists smaller and filled out the hips as well as making the arms a bit larger.  It was very interesting.


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## ratmist (Aug 15, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *aziajs* 

 
_Did you see that site on Dlisted???  Michael K just posted about it today.

Anyway, I noticed that Halle needed virtually no re-touching.  She's just a beautiful woman.  I love her.

I also noticed how they made some waists smaller and filled out the hips as well as making the arms a bit larger.  It was very interesting._

 
Hehe, yes.  Dlisted makes me laugh so I check it daily.  The body they gave Eva Longoria doesn't exist - and I always suspected that, because I didn't think it was possible for her to have such a pinched waistline and curvy hips, when she is so tiny and thin in the first place.  

Brittany Murphy and Gwen Stefani (who isn't in those pics) look very similar in before shots.  They both have baggy undereyes and splotchy skin, but they both look beautiful anyway.  The magazines don't like to use those photos though, and they brighten them up and erase those 'flaws'. 

I like all the extra moles and freckles and lines on people. It was sad to see them erased for the final product.  Perfection lies in the little imperfections.


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## xIxSkyDancerxIx (Aug 15, 2007)

I think it's amazing what retouching can do.. makes me feel a little bit better that not ALL the beautiful women you see in magazines and such are really like that. LOL Although some really are that beautiful. Props to them~


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## MiCHiE (Aug 15, 2007)

Marc Cherry told Tony Parker during a toast at his wedding reception that Eva has "the body of a 12 year old boy". I have a feeling he was only half-joking.


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## ms.marymac (Aug 15, 2007)

Dang, that's kind of mean.  Has she always looked like that? I just wonder if she's like Nicole Richie (curvy girl who strives to be really thin) or if that's her body type.


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## MiCHiE (Aug 15, 2007)

I don't know, but she's straight up and down. And, he's right.


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## flowerhead (Aug 15, 2007)

I dont understand why didn't just change the lighting on some of them, it would of saved a lot of money!
And I always thought Jonathan Rhys Myers was so pretty...I feel cheated! Really, some of them are ridiculous...what's the point of changing their bone structure and eye colour? :S


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## xsnowwhite (Aug 15, 2007)

whoa thats crazy! I never knew they did that much

thanks for sharing that link!


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## glam8babe (Aug 15, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *♥MiCHiE♥* 

 
_I don't know, but she's straight up and down. And, he's right.




_

 
EURGHH!!!! she looks rotton! like anorexic ewwww i dont see why they dont put abit of meat on them and be curvy like real women not fuckin stick thin like a male child - yeh she actually looks like an 8 yr old boy


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## MiCHiE (Aug 15, 2007)

Even if she gained weight, she would look weird. She has no defined waist.


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## flowerhead (Aug 15, 2007)

I even have a better waist than her! Haha and she thinks she is so amazing...


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## Chic 2k6 (Aug 15, 2007)

the site in the OP is pretty interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i had a go at retouching similar pics, (it's not as good as the site lol i'm just learning)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...phics/Girl.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...NaomiWatts.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...tanyMurphy.jpg


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## Beauty Mark (Aug 15, 2007)

Sites like those make you wonder how realistic it is to have so many of the desirable features/body types: thin but with curvy hips and breasts, perfect skin...


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## Hilly (Aug 15, 2007)

very interesting!


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## Calhoune (Aug 16, 2007)

I like the one with the Beyonce, where they completely redid her waist. Yay she gets it too!


Here's a link explaining what they do: 
http://demo.fb.se/e/girlpower/retouch/

If you click a picture then "Reveal the fraud" you can go step by step and see how she was redone


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## ms.marymac (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *flowerhead* 

 
_ Really, some of them are ridiculous...what's the point of changing their bone structure and eye colour? :S_

 
Just look at some of the replies in this thread and you have your answer. 

BTW, not everyone can be blessed with an hour glass figure. Some of us skinny minnys would like to have curves!


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## Willa (Aug 16, 2007)

I always said that Eva Longoria was over rated
She is pretty, but the makeup helps a lot

Thank you for posting this


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## flowerhead (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ms.marymac* 

 
_Just look at some of the replies in this thread and you have your answer. 

BTW, not everyone can be blessed with an hour glass figure. Some of us skinny minnys would like to have curves! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
You can be skinny and have a waist!


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## Raerae (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glam8babe* 

 
_EURGHH!!!! she looks rotton! like anorexic ewwww i dont see why they dont put abit of meat on them and be curvy like real women not fuckin stick thin like a male child - yeh she actually looks like an 8 yr old boy_

 
Curvy like real women?

I wasn't aware that having hips, or not haveing hips was a requirement to being a women.  Just because she doesn't share your body type, doesn't make her any less attractive.


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## Raerae (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ms.marymac* 

 
_Just look at some of the replies in this thread and you have your answer. 

BTW, not everyone can be blessed with an hour glass figure. Some of us skinny minnys would like to have curves! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 
And some of us skinny minny's like not haveing huge hips.  Size 0 is where it's at =p

I think the important thing those photo's show, is that there isn't any specific standard of beauty.  Looking at celebs just shows that there is beauty in all body types.  Whether you look like J.Lo, Beyonce, or Posh.


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## Shimmer (Aug 16, 2007)

yes size zero is where it's at. 
Let me go barf my high protein and complex carb lunch now, so I won't have the energy to walk my dog, chase my kids, or climb the ceiling tonight so I can fit into your ideals of beauty. 
In doing so, I'll go ahead and ruin my hair, my skin, and my nails, because the lack of nutrition will take its toll, because hey, size zero is where it's at right? And, having an athletic body that's actually USEFUL for something besides being a clothes hanger is obviously not attractive.


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## Raerae (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_yes size zero is where it's at. 
Let me go barf my high protein and complex carb lunch now, so I won't have the energy to walk my dog, chase my kids, or climb the ceiling tonight so I can fit into your ideals of beauty. 
In doing so, I'll go ahead and ruin my hair, my skin, and my nails, because the lack of nutrition will take its toll, because hey, size zero is where it's at right? And, having an athletic body that's actually USEFUL for something besides being a clothes hanger is obviously not attractive._

 
I never said being Sporty Spice wasn't attractive Shimmer.  I thought it was pretty clear that all body types can be attractive.

Yah, i have pride in mine.  Just like you have pride in yours.  But i'm not making fun of the fact that you dont have a mani/pedi because you choose to climb rocks for fun.

And not everyone is ana/mia.  You were born with a bubble butt, I wasn't.  Don't blame me for not being able to fit in a small pair of pants.  The Applebottom's are on the other rack though.


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## righteothen (Aug 16, 2007)

Thank you for linking that.  I have to show that to a lot of people that I know.  It's amazing the amount of processing some of them went through.  Kind of made me feel a little better, though, because a lot of them had real bodies before, so not all of them are not eating ^_^.

The sort of things the media will do to make more money...


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## Raerae (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Punkinpot, I never said I didn't wear a small pair of jeans, and if you think the definition of self comes from the rack in the store, you've got a lot more maturation to go._

 
At least I'm not piling on the self loathing because I can't get the button closed, and have to ask the lady helping in the dressing room to get a larger size.

 Quote:

  I just hope while you're doing it, the enamel on your teeth can hold up to the strain.  
 
I get perfect reports from the dentist thanks.  I dont even have any fillings.  

 Quote:

  My point was the hypocrisy of the post in that your personal statement directly contradicted the statement you made in the post before.  
 
Perhaps if the tone of voice used by the plus sized community wasn't so negative, you wouldn't get that type of a response.  Hate more?


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## Shimmer (Aug 16, 2007)

LOL
So basically, through saying 'Size 0 is where it's at', and intimating that anyone larger than a 0 is piling on self loathing because they can't get the button closed, you're saying that anyone larger than a 0 is a 'plus size' and a member of  the 'plus sized community'?

Have you considered seeking help for Body Dysmorphic Disorder?


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## Raerae (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_LOL
So basically, through saying 'Size 0 is where it's at',_

 
Nothing wrong with haveing self esteem Shimmer.  And being happy with your weight, instead of worrying about what fad diet to do next, or how much downtime getting lipo will be.

 Quote:

  and intimating that anyone larger than a 0 is piling on self loathing because they can't get the button closed  
 
After working in womens retail clothing, and hearing the comments women make to themselves in the dressing room when they don't fit the size they want.  Or the tone of voice they use when they had to ask me to get a bigger size, I think i'm pretty spot on with that one.  

And being the one that had to clean up the dressing rooms, you get pretty tired of seeing women carry in the small size with the medium, or the medium and the large, when it's pretty obvious the smaller size was "wishful thinking."

 Quote:

  you're saying that anyone larger than a 0 is a 'plus size' and a member of  the 'plus sized community'?  
 
Your words not mine.  I never mentioned clothing size in that post.

I'm sorry you can't accept the fact that there are LOTS of women who are a size 0 w/out dieting, purgeing, excessive exercise.  And we do get tired of the acidic responses/comments that anyone who is obviously not a zero needs to use to make themselves feel better.  But hey, whatever helps you sleep better at night.


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## Marielle001 (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

  you get pretty tired of seeing women carry in the small size with the medium, or the medium and the large, when it's pretty obvious the smaller size was "wishful thinking."  
 
So I get that you have extra stuff to clean up, but what do you care if somebody else is wishingfully thinking they can fit a smaller size? So what.

The bottom line is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people are naturally skinny, some naturally curvy, etc. You can be a size 0 without having an eating disorder, etc. Everybody has their own preference. The photo retouching only proves that trying to fit ONE IDEAL for everyone is ridiculous. All of those models/actors/actresses have imperfections, but they are still (in general) attractive people.


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## Shimmer (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_At least I'm not piling on the self loathing because I can't get the button closed, and have to ask the lady helping in the dressing room to get a larger size.



I get perfect reports from the dentist thanks.  I dont even have any fillings.  



Perhaps if the tone of voice used by the * plus sized community* wasn't so negative, you wouldn't get that type of a response.  Hate more?_

 
Quoted for posterity.


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## Shimmer (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_I'm sorry you can't accept the fact that there are LOTS of women who are a size 0 w/out dieting, purgeing, excessive exercise.  And we do get tired of the acidic responses/comments that anyone who is obviously not a zero needs to use to make themselves feel better.  But hey, whatever helps you sleep better at night._

 
What's cute is you think people are actually jealous of you or your size, or specifically, that I am.
What's even cuter is that you think that naturally I'm a heavy person.
What's even cuter than that is that you think you manage to keep me up at night worrying about whether I can fit in your clothes or not...or who's skinnier...or whatever. That's the cutest part of it all.

Actually, I'm going to call you out, because not one single time have I ever, since I've been on this site, seen you post a picture of yourself, at all. I really doubt you are who and what you say you are. Too many times you've sat and posted and railed on and on and on about "i'm a size 0!" "I don't have hips and that's sexxxxxy!!11!" "I'm tall and skinny, just like models!" etc. Of course, you say you won't do that because the internet is getting smaller and someone might take your pictures and do who knows what with them, which is a legitimate thought, I won't argue.
But, I'm also going to say that for all the barking you do about how skinny you are, how pale your skin is, how well you take care of yourself, you've never proven it. Do you have anything to prove? Not per se...except that we can all claim to be five foot nine and 100 lbs naturally with blond hair and pale skin, and never back it up. Your contribution is continually to stir up problems and issues within the site, and then to retreat and complain to the staff that you perceive you were treated unfairly.  It's like watching TIVO on loop. Repetitive and redundant.

So, I really don't think you are who you say you are, and I don't think your much vaunted self esteem is what you say it is, and in short, I think the lady doth protest too much.


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## xsnowwhite (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_And being the one that had to clean up the dressing rooms, you get pretty tired of seeing women carry in the small size with the medium, or the medium and the large, when it's pretty obvious the smaller size was "wishful thinking."
_

 
Or maybeeee instead of "wishful thinking" they're on the borderline of sizes, because alot of people can easilly wear a different size of shirt depending on the style/store, ect...


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## Shimmer (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xsnowwhite* 

 
_Or maybeeee instead of "wishful thinking" they're on the borderline of sizes, because alot of people can easilly wear a different size of shirt depending on the style/store, ect..._

 
No way, that's just not possible. Really?


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## MiCHiE (Aug 16, 2007)

The Kelly Clarkson "transformation" is really too much. The girl is stacked and is constantly cut in half via photoshop.


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## Shimmer (Aug 16, 2007)

Yes! Check out the Faith Hill transformation a mag recently did for its over, and Faith, in person, is *beautiful*. They took pounds, inches, and lines off that really didn't HAVE to be removed.


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## d_flawless (Aug 16, 2007)

this is neat! beyonce looks fine either way though, but i already figured


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## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_What's cute is you think people are actually jealous of you or your size, or specifically, that I am.
What's even cuter is that you think that naturally I'm a heavy person.
What's even cuter than that is that you think you manage to keep me up at night worrying about whether I can fit in your clothes or not...or who's skinnier...or whatever. That's the cutest part of it all._

 
I've never once said you were jealous of my size, were all aware that you think being athletic is the pinacle of female beauty.  I'm glad that works for you.

I've also never in this thread said you were heavy.  Those are your assumptions (again), not my words.  You automatically associate any comment i make to you with being extremely heavy, thats your perception, not my words.

And I highly doubt any of us spends much time worrying about the other.  Thats really reaching.  Guess we can be cute together.

 Quote:

  Actually, I'm going to call you out, because not one single time have I ever, since I've been on this site, seen you post a picture of yourself, at all.  
 
Not all of us need to post photo's to get a self esteem boost Shim.  The internet has been out for a while, i went through that phase already years ago.

 Quote:

  I really doubt you are who and what you say you are. Too many times you've sat and posted and railed on and on and on about "i'm a size 0!" "I don't have hips and that's sexxxxxy!!11!" "I'm tall and skinny, just like models!" etc. Of course, you say you won't do that because the internet is getting smaller and someone might take your pictures and do who knows what with them, which is a legitimate thought, I won't argue.
But,  
 
I'll give you a photo after i'm done getting the bump removed from my nose.  Bug me in September.  You've waited this long, you can wait a few more weeks.

 Quote:

  I'm also going to say that for all the barking you do about how skinny you are, how pale your skin is, how well you take care of yourself, you've never proven it.  
 
All i've ever done Shim is given the same tone back to people who feel the need to be nasty about thin people.  Your going to honestly tell me saying that someone looks "rotten" is an acceptable thing?  I know I"m not the only person who has a body like Eva's in that photo who didn't appreciate that comment.

 Quote:

  Do you have anything to prove? Not per se...except that we can all claim to be five foot nine and 100 lbs naturally with blond hair and pale skin, and never back it up.  
 
I'm 5'6" actually I wish i was 5'9" though.  With Brown hair, not blonde.  And while I do have pale skin, I've never said being casper white was attractive.  And i'm not 100 today, closer to 105.  Hardly up to par with regards to the SoCal beauty standards of blond, tan, and busty.  Nice try though.

 Quote:

  Your contribution is continually to stir up problems and issues within the site, and then to retreat and complain to the staff that you perceive you were treated unfairly.  It's like watching TIVO on loop. Repetitive and redundant.  
 
Problems?  Issues?  Haveing an alternate opinion is hardly a problem Shimmer.  

Because posting comments like this:
"yes size zero is where it's at. 
Let me go barf my high protein and complex carb lunch now, so I won't have the energy to walk my dog, chase my kids, or climb the ceiling tonight so I can fit into your ideals of beauty. 
In doing so, I'll go ahead and ruin my hair, my skin, and my nails, because the lack of nutrition will take its toll, because hey, size zero is where it's at right? And, having an athletic body that's actually USEFUL for something besides being a clothes hanger is obviously not attractive."

Is such a contribution.  

You posted that with the intent of starting something.  Not to mention several other blatently inflamatory comments to me in this thread alone, some of which are no longer present in this thread.  You play the same games I do Shim.  You've done it too many times to pretend it's all me.

 Quote:

  So, I really don't think you are who you say you are, and I don't think your much vaunted self esteem is what you say it is, and in short, I think the lady doth protest too much.  
 
A photo doesn't change anything, but like I said, bug me in Sept.

And more realistically, I've been very open about my flaws, and things i hate about myself, and the shape/size of my body.  So while you love painting this picture that I believe I'm perfect, thats hardly true.  I'm the first person to point out my own flaws, and to post about them.


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## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xsnowwhite* 

 
_Or maybeeee instead of "wishful thinking" they're on the borderline of sizes, because alot of people can easilly wear a different size of shirt depending on the style/store, ect..._

 
If it's *obvious* it's not going to fit, i really doubt their borderline.

Anyone who's worked women's clothes in retail would understand.  It's just another "go back" you have to waste your time with after they leve it in the dressing room.


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## righteothen (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xsnowwhite* 

 
_Or maybeeee instead of "wishful thinking" they're on the borderline of sizes, because alot of people can easilly wear a different size of shirt depending on the style/store, ect..._

 
I happen to be borderline, but I actually put the clothes back (something I wish more people would do, because I often get into a room with clothes still in it).  It's all in the cut.  I might be the larger size in one pair of pants, and the smaller in another, all based on how they cut the thighs alone.

I agree with others on this thread.  Changing the entire image of a person just to fit a single ideal is just crazy.  I've known plenty of people, and one in specific, who have been what the media would call "overweight," but who were just drop dead gorgeous.  Attitude matters more than anything.


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## Beauty Mark (Aug 17, 2007)

If photos were never subjected to all this doctoring, I wonder if people would make a big fuss about stars out and about (the celebs without makeup photos) without the aid of computer retouching?

I think it's kind of sad that the general standard of beauty isn't even real. It's mostly fiction.


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## frocher (Aug 17, 2007)

...


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## faifai (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glam8babe* 

 
_EURGHH!!!! she looks rotton! like anorexic ewwww i dont see why they dont put abit of meat on them and be curvy like real women not fuckin stick thin like a male child - yeh she actually looks like an 8 yr old boy_

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *flowerhead* 

 
_I even have a better waist than her! Haha and she thinks she is so amazing..._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_And some of us skinny minny's like not haveing huge hips.  Size 0 is where it's at =p_

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_yes size zero is where it's at. 
Let me go barf my high protein and complex carb lunch now, so I won't have the energy to walk my dog, chase my kids, or climb the ceiling tonight so I can fit into your ideals of beauty. 
In doing so, I'll go ahead and ruin my hair, my skin, and my nails, because the lack of nutrition will take its toll, because hey, size zero is where it's at right? And, having an athletic body that's actually USEFUL for something besides being a clothes hanger is obviously not attractive._

 
No wonder we* have issues with beauty standards today. 

Everything is telling you that you have to fit this supernaturally perfect standard of beauty and we're not doing anything to discourage it - in fact, we're subscribing to the very kind of beliefs that spur the cycle on and on.

Does it make me not a real woman if I naturally don't have curves?  However, I _have_ to be toned and have a defined waist and curvy hips, men's magazines are telling me I need tits and an ass or no one will want me. But the high fashion industry is telling me I need to be thin to look good in these ultra-skinny jeans - so, um, curvy, but in moderation? Wait, but if a size 0 is where it's at, then I'm going to have to shave these hips down to size, all the while maintaining my toned arms and legs, and my defined waist, and big boobs and perky tush, and....

It's all so contradictory, and instead of being able to see through that, we're all getting caught up in it. Beauty Mark is right, the general standard of what's "beautiful" these days is so artificially enhanced that it's become nearly impossible to naturally look like that. I wish that being genuinely healthy was considered beautiful- being healthy, eating right, and accepting your body in all its many small "imperfections." But who knows when that will happen?

[* = we being people in general, not meaning to point fingers at anyone on this board]


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## ratmist (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_If it's *obvious* it's not going to fit, i really doubt their borderline.

Anyone who's worked women's clothes in retail would understand.  It's just another "go back" you have to waste your time with after they leve it in the dressing room._

 
All hail the internet, where I can shop without being judged.  I'm a borderline girl, between a size 8 and 10 US or a size 12 and 14 in the UK.  If you haven't picked up that we exist, then you weren't paying attention.  Either way, you cannot demand to be treated with respect for your size and then get pissy at women who aren't sure what their size is from store to store, brand to brand.

And if you're annoyed at having to do parts of your job, such as pick up the dressing room and get different sizes for a customer, you should quit and find a new career.  Your job is to help ladies find the correct size, pick up unwanted items from the dressing room, and be cheerful and helpful to often-confused and vulnerable feeling women.  From the way you describe your job online and the ladies who get to experience your 'sales technique', your attitude stinks.


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## ratmist (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *♥MiCHiE♥* 

 
_The Kelly Clarkson "transformation" is really too much. The girl is stacked and is constantly cut in half via photoshop._

 

I thought that was the saddest pic of all, to be honest.  It's proof that the media just cannot accept curves on a successful woman; they are actively pushing an image of thinness onto the population that, in the case of Kelly, equates with the ability to go from an average girl to a megasuperstar.  I love that she is a very beautiful, but very average-sized woman.  Her body is actually quite comforting.  She and Kate Winslet are inspirations for those of us in the size 6 to 10 range who wonder whether we need to lose weight.  Winslet recently interviewed that the pictures of her in a recent magazine are the product of two hours of makeup and hair, a great deal of retouching, and the fact that her skintight Valentino gown had to be professionally taken out because it was "miniscule".  Love her candidness and the fact that she's up front how hard it is to maintain a good self image in today's weight-obsessed society. 

I don't think anyone really knows what's 'normal' and 'pretty' and 'right' anymore.  The goal posts change daily and whip us up into a frenzy of jealousy, fear and depression.  Then the plastic surgeons and the luxury brands come in and offer all the things we suddenly feel we need to feel 'normal', 'pretty', and 'right'.  They make a lot of money off of us, and we end up just as confused and unhappy as before, and poorer for the joke.  

The reason I posted this thread in the first place was just in the hope that some Specktra members would see it and have a nice day in their bodies, no matter what shape, colour or gender, and not get upset by magazine covers or gossip blogs or whatever.


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## MiCHiE (Aug 17, 2007)

It's sad. And it has gotten to the point where I've seen "candid" pics, and _they_ were airbrushed, too!


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## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *♥MiCHiE♥* 

 
_It's sad. And it has gotten to the point where I've seen "candid" pics, and they were airbrushed, too!_

 
Like the Britney Allure 'outtakes', right?


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## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *faifai* 

 
_No wonder we* have issues with beauty standards today. 

Everything is telling you that you have to fit this supernaturally perfect standard of beauty and we're not doing anything to discourage it - in fact, we're subscribing to the very kind of beliefs that spur the cycle on and on.

Does it make me not a real woman if I naturally don't have curves?  However, I have to be toned and have a defined waist and curvy hips, men's magazines are telling me I need tits and an ass or no one will want me. But the high fashion industry is telling me I need to be thin to look good in these ultra-skinny jeans - so, um, curvy, but in moderation? Wait, but if a size 0 is where it's at, then I'm going to have to shave these hips down to size, all the while maintaining my toned arms and legs, and my defined waist, and big boobs and perky tush, and....

It's all so contradictory, and instead of being able to see through that, we're all getting caught up in it. Beauty Mark is right, the general standard of what's "beautiful" these days is so artificially enhanced that it's become nearly impossible to naturally look like that. I wish that being genuinely healthy was considered beautiful- being healthy, eating right, and accepting your body in all its many small "imperfections." But who knows when that will happen?

[* = we being people in general, not meaning to point fingers at anyone on this board]_

 
Amen.
I'd buy you a beer if I could.


----------



## ILoveMacMakeup (Aug 17, 2007)

Wow, Kelly Clarkson looks way different before & after


----------



## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ratmist* 

 
_And if you're annoyed at having to do parts of your job, such as pick up the dressing room and get different sizes for a customer, you should quit and find a new career.  Your job is to help ladies find the correct size, pick up unwanted items from the dressing room, and be cheerful and helpful to often-confused and vulnerable feeling women.  From the way you describe your job online and the ladies who get to experience your 'sales technique', your attitude stinks._

 
LOL...

I worked at WetSeal when I was 19 for like 6 months.  I got paid min wage with no benefits, no comission, just like every other girl who worked there.  With a schedule that was different every week, sometimes every day.

Why would I care?  It was a college job for a little extra spending money, and an employee discount.  You know the girls, the ones that get annoyed when we had to stop chatting to help you get the shirt that was on the rack way at the top?  That was me.


----------



## Kimberleigh (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Like the Britney Allure 'outtakes', right?_

 
Yeah, no shit...seriously, I'm a whore for websites like Perez Hilton and X17...and I've seen some recent shots of her out in her backyard with her kids or running around Hollywood and I guarantee her belly isn't THAT flat and/or her obliques that trim.  period.  

And to address the comment about taking stuff into the fitting room: Seriously, give me a break.  I'm fairly large on top (pre pregnancy 34C and now that I'm pregnant I'm a 36D) and have a fairly small to average waist, so I ALWAYS take a small, medium, and a large into the fitting room to see which will fit my boobies and still be trim around my waist without losing my waist completely, so a big "kiss my ass" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for assuming that I'm "pretending" or "wishing" I were a smaller size.


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

Kim I love you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol


----------



## ratmist (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_I worked at WetSeal when I was 19 for like 6 months.  I got paid min wage with no benefits, no comission, just like every other girl who worked there.  With a schedule that was different every week, sometimes every day._

 
My heart bleeds buttermilk.  Also, it's 'commission'.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Why would I care?  It was a college job for a little extra spending money, and an employee discount.  You know the girls, the ones that get annoyed when we had to stop chatting to help you get the shirt that was on the rack way at the top?  That was me._

 
I understand totally, sweetie.  Doing a job anyone could do badly, and very few people can do well, is so very hard!  But it also apparently gave you good fodder with which to carelessly insult a great number of women on a message board.  So at least your time wasn't really wasted.


----------



## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Aug 17, 2007)

wow. I see we have a few hypocrites on this board!


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

I don't think it's hypocritical to call someone out on bad or disrespectful behavior. No one wants to be treated badly, or be disrespected, and there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't want to be talked to or about that way."


----------



## Marielle001 (Aug 17, 2007)

Haha, dude, if you think you had it bad? I worked at the Disney Store on Christmas Eve. Screaming crazy adults fighting for the last Finding Nemo plush, yelling at me and my pregnant manager about the price of items, demanding discounts that don't exist, a line to the end of the store, children throwing everything all over the place (including playing with toy cars on the floor. safety hazard!), pajamas in piles..  It was actually hilarious in a kind of terrifying way. People are INTENSE on Christmas Eve.

That's retail. It ain't always pretty. Suck it up or work somewhere else. No reason to take it out on the ladies who try on multiple sizes...


----------



## frocher (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MxAxC-_ATTACK* 

 
_wow. I see we have a few hypocrites on this board!_

 
What exactly is hypocritical?  To me it seems everyone is stating their point of view.  I fail to see how that makes anyone a hypocrite.


----------



## banjobama (Aug 17, 2007)

The touched up photos look really fake compared to the real ones! And we thought these stars were so much better than us!

As far as size goes, I think overweight women do feel a lot of pressure to be smaller even if they deny feeling it. I'm 5'10", and 175 lbs. Basically a size 10 or 12 and I worked in a plus size clothing store for a while. I got hated on a lot in there for being smaller than the clothes I was supposed to be selling. I'm not small in general, just not a size 14. I don't know why its supposedly ok to give skinnier women a hard time about their size but not overweight women. 

And men like ALL kinds of women. No matter what you look like there is a man who will like it. Finding that out is a part of growing up. You can't make statements like "guys like women like THIS or THIS." It's ignorant.

I have worked and used some self discipline to be the size that I am (down from a sixteen) so I tend to view really overweight women as lazy. I realize this is awful, I'm just being honest. I feel like if I can do it so can they.


----------



## glam8babe (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Curvy like real women?

I wasn't aware that having hips, or not haveing hips was a requirement to being a women. Just because she doesn't share your body type, doesn't make her any less attractive._

 
well to be honest, guys like curvy girls. Even in magazines we are classed as 'real women' i had a friend who was like size 0 [UK 4] she didnt have an eating disorder and i stuck up for her when people called her anorexic n she was like "they are just jealous of me because im soo skinny =) " like rubbing it in my face anyway who do you think got the attention from boys? no it wasnt her it was me... boys say she looks disguisting and gaunt and wouldnt dare touch her with a barge pole which is kinda funni because she thinks shes gorgeous because shes 'skinny' and i tell u she does look DISGUISTING! she thinks shes gonna be the next Kate Moss i mean come on yes shes skinny but shes not pretty and i dont think kate moss is either. It just goes to show you whats attractive and what is. Men like REAL WOMEN!!! with bits of meat on them, with hips, with an ass, with thighs not stick thin boy look-a-likes like eva longoria whos is a US size double 0! [below size 0] i think victoria beckham looks terrible and i only like her personality and the way she dresses... i never hear men say 'god shes sexy!' they like women with curves. and yes for those who are naturally thin that cant be helped but dont think you are better than us curvy girls because we are just as attractive. and thats my opinion!


----------



## Kimberleigh (Aug 17, 2007)

I may be reiterating someone else's comment, but I think it's worth mentioning it again; this is so disturbing to me.  I get 4 magazines a month: Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, In Style, Marie Claire, and Parenting (yeah, yeah, yeah!  LOL!).  Although I had a pretty good idea that mostly everything is airbrushed in all of them...well, maybe not Parenting as much, it just makes me really sad that it's come to this.  It's sad that our culture now has to stoop to this never ending inability to achieve the "look" that a certain celeb has when said celebrity doesn't even look that good.  How can they not be screaming and yelling about this?  Don't *they* look in the mirrors and see that they're not as perfect as these magazines are making them out to be?  I've heard of people like Keira Knightly pitching a bitch because they've enhanced her boobs for a movie ad (it was a knights of the round table movie, but for the life of me, I can't come up with the title), but I can't recall a whole lot of others complaining about this...


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

Was it that "A Knight's Tale" movie? Or was that a different chick?


----------



## Kimberleigh (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Was it that "A Knight's Tale" movie? Or was that a different chick?_

 
Different chick.  Here's what she had to say:

 Quote:

  Keira Knightley is furious because her breasts are always made bigger on American movie posters.

The 'Pirates of the Caribbean' star, who has always insisted she is happy with her modest assets, says she is sick of seeing herself on the front cover of magazines and in ads with digitally blown up boobs.

She said: "I don't have any t**s, so I can't show cleavage. But you're not actually allowed to be on a magazine cover in the US without at least a C cup because it turns people off.

"Apparently they have done market research and found that women want to see no less than a C cup on other women. Isn't that crazy? So they make my t**s bigger."

The 21-year-old actress' chest was famously enlarged for the 'King Arthur' posters, in which she played Guinevere.

Keira said: "Those things certainly weren't mine. I remember we had an interesting discussion when they said, 'We want to make them slightly larger and you'll get approval', and I was like. 'Okay, fine. I honestly don't give a s**t'."  
 
Here are the pics...


----------



## glam8babe (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kimberleigh* 

 
_Different chick. Here's what she had to say:



Here are the pics...




_

 
WOW i think she looks beautiful in the original picture, her stomach looks normal and she has no boobs [who cares!] boobs are boobs! so why do they need to make her look soo different?


----------



## aliciaz727 (Aug 17, 2007)

cameran's after photo is completely different than her before (hips, legs, boobs, shoulders, arms....etc) only her face is real. I am shocked at what they do to enhance the photo. It confirms that nobody is perfect, especially eva longoria... makes ppl think that the whole hollywood weight-loss trend is bogus because the image they are trying to sell is only a product of photoshop enhancement, not really of dieting and hard work.  this is sad because there are young girls (age 14!) out there who think these "photos" are real and they would go as far as plastic surgery to achieve that.


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

ahhh yes, that's right. I remember now. 
Nice. :/


----------



## flowerhead (Aug 17, 2007)

I love how nearly every thread started about beauty, celebrities or airbrushing ends up with the size 0 blah blah debate!


----------



## ratmist (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *flowerhead* 

 
_I love how nearly every thread started about beauty, celebrities or airbrushing ends up with the size 0 blah blah debate!_

 
It does get old. 

I posted the thread because the site made me feel happy!  This was supposed to be a happy thread!  Meh!


----------



## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ratmist* 

 
_My heart bleeds buttermilk.  Also, it's 'commission'._

 
I can break out the worlds smallest violin too if you want.  

And really, the best you can do is to red pen that lack of the letter m in my post?  Perhaps if your points were as good as your spelling you might have one.

The point of that post wasn't to complain about WetSeal like Shimmer complains about Walmart, but to point out that it was a crappy job that I didn't care about.

 Quote:

  I understand totally, sweetie.  Doing a job anyone could do badly, and very few people can do well, is so very hard!  
 
There is no incentive to do well at jobs like that, so why should I bother?  I do an amazing job, i make min wage.  I do as little work as possible, and I make min wage.  Simply put, if you shop in a store that sells cheap clothing, expect to get poor service.

 Quote:

  But it also apparently gave you good fodder with which to carelessly insult a great number of women on a message board.  So at least your time wasn't really wasted.  
 
Perhaps if a great number of women on this message board retured the clothing to the racks where they found it, like a responsible adult, they would get better service.

Seriously, you can always tell who has worked retail, and who hasn't.  Because people who have, are respectful of how they handle clothing in stores.  Wheras the ones who leave the dressing rooms with clothes on the floor, and leave things on the table in a messy pile, have not.


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

Now you're making an assumption again. You're assuming that the people you offend don't put things up, and are rude to service personnel, etc., when in fact you don't know that, and could never prove it.


----------



## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_I don't think it's hypocritical to call someone out on bad or disrespectful behavior. No one wants to be treated badly, or be disrespected, and there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't want to be talked to or about that way."_

 
It is hypocritical when you go about it in the same way though.  Do as I say, not as I do, stopped working on most people when they were children Shimmer.  Especially when this whole thread started because you chose to be disrespectful to me.

Stones, glass houses, etc.


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

I wasn't disrespectful to you. I called you out on a complete line of BS. 
Stones, glass houses, etc. is a really neat concept, except that when you trod intentionally on the toes of the people around you, and you get called on it,  then you act all shocked, hurt, and shaken about it.
You want to flaunt convention and intentionally insult people? Don't be surprised when they tell you to cut the BS.
You want to act like a diva and make crass, overbearing, sweeping generalizations about people? Don't be surprised when you're called on it, and the error of your ways is pointed out. 
That's not me, or anyone else, trying to dog pile you. That's just quite frankly people being tired of the crap.


----------



## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_I wasn't disrespectful to you. I called you out on a complete line of BS._

 
Called me out on what, please, i'd love to know.


----------



## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Now you're making an assumption again. You're assuming that the people you offend don't put things up, and are rude to service personnel, etc., when in fact you don't know that, and could never prove it._

 
If they put things up, then this post doesn't apply to them, so it really doesn't matter does it?


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

LOL I love it. You're poking a snake and wondering why it bit you. You didn't do anything, you just poked it right?


----------



## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_LOL I love it. You're poking a snake and wondering why it bit you. You didn't do anything, you just poked it right?_

 
How did I poke it.  Please.  Show us.

If you look back in this thread, the FIRST, nasty post towards anyone, is post #23.  Suprised?  it's yours.


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 17, 2007)

You've stated that your reading comprehension skills are above par, so...go back through the thread, read your posts, read the responses, and try, just try, some introspection.
I'm done with you. You post repetitively simply to get a rise out of the members of this site, and to cause drama and stir problems up. Nothing worth reading.


----------



## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_You've stated that your reading comprehension skills are above par, so...go back through the thread, read your posts, read the responses, and try, just try, some introspection._

 
Lets see... 

Post#21
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Curvy like real women?

I wasn't aware that having hips, or not haveing hips was a requirement to being a women.  Just because she doesn't share your body type, doesn't make her any less attractive._

 
Thats obviously not a nasty post.  In fact, it's repeated several times in this thread by various people.  It's a true statement.  Haveing hips, or not haveing them, doesn't make someone more or less attractive.

Or are you really going to argue with me on that.

Post#22
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_And some of us skinny minny's like not haveing huge hips. Size 0 is where it's at =p

I think the important thing those photo's show, is that there isn't any specific standard of beauty. Looking at celebs just shows that there is beauty in all body types. Whether you look like J.Lo, Beyonce, or Posh._

 
That was a positive post too.  So i'm proud of being thin.  I didn't call anyone anything, I wasn't rude, and i was not disrespectful.  In fact, I had a very positive message which you chose to INGORE.

With this post:

Post#23
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_yes size zero is where it's at. 
Let me go barf my high protein and complex carb lunch now, so I won't have the energy to walk my dog, chase my kids, or climb the ceiling tonight so I can fit into your ideals of beauty. 
In doing so, I'll go ahead and ruin my hair, my skin, and my nails, because the lack of nutrition will take its toll, because hey, size zero is where it's at right? And, having an athletic body that's actually USEFUL for something besides being a clothes hanger is obviously not attractive._

 
Please.  Was there any need for this?  You know for a fact there wasn't.  You poasted this specifically to cause drama.

And yes Shimmer, size 0 is where it's at, for me.  Just because it's not for you, doesn't mean you needed to be volitile about it.


----------



## Beauty Mark (Aug 17, 2007)

While I think it's really dumb it's veering off topic, the phrase "for me" is really all it needed. Since I personally don't know you and typed word can be misconstrued so easily, it's hard to tell if "size 0 is where it's at" means you think everyone should be that size or you're just happy with your size. Because I've had enough things misconstrued that I've even said that I'm either speaking about myself or speaking in generalities with exception to the rule.

In any case, Keira Knightly had a great point about the breast obsession, since that's what happened with a lot of those photos is you look in that area. I wouldn't have thought much about how flat she was if the two photos weren't posted by each other. It's funny how the women are the ones who want to see bigger breasts and not men, according to that survey.


----------



## Raerae (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_Because I've had enough things misconstrued that I've even said that I'm either speaking about myself or speaking in generalities with exception to the rule._

 
It doesn't change the fact it was unnecessary.


----------



## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Aug 18, 2007)

I mean hypocritical as how (as it's already been pointed out ) Someone said Eva Longoria (sp?) looked Rotten because she was lacking in the hip region,and "looked like a boy" 

then someone came along and said " having/not having hips" doesn't make you any better than anyone else. and playfully joked that "size 0 is where its at" with a little smiley face following it . (I highly doubt I am the only one here who can Tell when someone is just trying to 'pull your chain', on the internet)
and after that everyone just threw their hands up in anger and started making rude comments about "Barfing up protein shakes" and " ruining the enamel on your teeth" which i found extremely offensive. Thats hypocritical... and it was also quite uncalled for,

Everyone is allowed to love their bodys , size 0 , or size 24.


----------



## MarieLisa_Smile (Aug 18, 2007)

I love me like a fat kid love cake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


​


----------



## glam8babe (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MxAxC-_ATTACK* 

 
_I mean hypocritical as how (as it's already been pointed out ) Someone said Eva Longoria (sp?) looked Rotten because she was lacking in the hip region,and "looked like a boy" ._

 
yeh she DOES look rotten and like a boy.. i mean on the red carpet and stuff she looks 'perfect' but thats a loads of bullshit, she has a straight up n down body shes a size DOUBLE ZERO!!!!!!! thats gross and shes not naturally like that at all ive seen pictures in magazines from when shes younger, ohh and have you seen her with no makeup on? if she was walking down the street u wudnt wanna look at her twice coz shes not even pretty unless she has her makeup professionally done and has been airbrushed.


----------



## ratmist (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_And really, the best you can do is to red pen that lack of the letter m in my post?  Perhaps if your points were as good as your spelling you might have one._

 
Up until now, it's taken practically everything inside of me not to point out the laziness of your logic, grammar, spelling, and attitude.  Since you stated you went to college, I assumed that you are educated past the fourth grade level, so you should know that little rule when you add 'ing' to most words, you have to drop the 'e'.  "Haveing hips" indeed doesn't make you a woman, but having the extra 'e' makes me think you're illiterate and therefore worth dismissing.  I swear I'll stop harping on like a grammar nazi if you just make a tiny sliver of effort.

Anyway, to return to your comment, I choose to point out that if you chose to work retail, you accept your responsibilities, meager as they are, and behave accordingly.  You replied stating it doesn't matter because it's all just minimum wage, thereby neatly avoiding all responsibility for your actions.  Except, no.  You work retail, you accept dealing with the public, and accept you've turned yourself into a servant in return for minimum wage and an employee discount.  Or you quit - which you did - hurrah!

As for your present actions, you choose to spitefully relate stories from your work experience to create drama and bad feelings on a message board because someone pushed one of your buttons - the weight issue size zero thing.   You pushed back.  You chose to take it personally when someone expressed a harsh opinion that a celebrity whom we all could probably not care less about didn't look very nice in a bikini because she is so very thin and resembles a prepubescent boy.  (Although I think calling her 'rotten' is really unfair.  Unattractive, certainly.)  Others chose to take it personally when you related your spiteful thoughts from your retail experience - myself included.

The consequences are that this thread isn't happy anymore, we're all pissed off at each other, you won't change or apologize or even admit that maybe you were wrong in some of your assumptions regarding why women take multiple sizes into a dressing room, and so  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 to turn this into a flame war.


----------



## glam8babe (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_After working in womens retail clothing, and hearing the comments women make to themselves in the dressing room when they don't fit the size they want. Or the tone of voice they use when they had to ask me to get a bigger size, I think i'm pretty spot on with that one. 

And being the one that had to clean up the dressing rooms, you get pretty tired of seeing women carry in the small size with the medium, or the medium and the large, when it's pretty obvious the smaller size was "wishful thinking."_

 
i dont see what the problem is if people take in 2 sizes to try on? =S shops have different sizing like in some shops im a size 6 [US 2] in tops and some size 8 [US 4] but in bottoms im always almost a 10 [US 6] so i have to try different sizes because theres no point in going in a changing room with a too small top then getting dressed again just to go get the next size up.
 and so what if you have to clean up the dressing rooms, its part of your job to do it so dont complain, if you dont like cleaning up then go for a different job simple as that


----------



## ratmist (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_In any case, Keira Knightly had a great point about the breast obsession, since that's what happened with a lot of those photos is you look in that area. I wouldn't have thought much about how flat she was if the two photos weren't posted by each other. It's funny how the women are the ones who want to see bigger breasts and not men, according to that survey._

 
Did you see her Chanel (Coco Mademoiselle) advertisement?  They gave her breasts again!  






I think she's quite smart in letting herself get digitally rather than surgically 'enhanced'.  If she purchased new breasts, she'd look really odd and obvious unless it was a very small breast size.  

I shudder when I see Posh Spice's chest...


----------



## c00ki312 (Aug 18, 2007)

wow its good to see that they look normal and retouching makes them look 'perfect'...look at the difference in kelly clarkson. theyve sucked her in to look way thinner then she normally is. there is nothing wrong with her normal size anyway.


----------



## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ratmist* 

 
_I thought that was the saddest pic of all, to be honest.  It's proof that the media just cannot accept curves on a successful woman; they are actively pushing an image of thinness onto the population that, in the case of Kelly, equates with the ability to go from an average girl to a megasuperstar.  I love that she is a very beautiful, but very average-sized woman.  Her body is actually quite comforting.  She and Kate Winslet are inspirations for those of us in the size 6 to 10 range who wonder whether we need to lose weight.  Winslet recently interviewed that the pictures of her in a recent magazine are the product of two hours of makeup and hair, a great deal of retouching, and the fact that her skintight Valentino gown had to be professionally taken out because it was "miniscule".  Love her candidness and the fact that she's up front how hard it is to maintain a good self image in today's weight-obsessed society. 

I don't think anyone really knows what's 'normal' and 'pretty' and 'right' anymore.  The goal posts change daily and whip us up into a frenzy of jealousy, fear and depression.  Then the plastic surgeons and the luxury brands come in and offer all the things we suddenly feel we need to feel 'normal', 'pretty', and 'right'.  They make a lot of money off of us, and we end up just as confused and unhappy as before, and poorer for the joke.  

The reason I posted this thread in the first place was just in the hope that some Specktra members would see it and have a nice day in their bodies, no matter what shape, colour or gender, and not get upset by magazine covers or gossip blogs or whatever._

 
Another celeb whose body is fantastic for being realistic is Mandy Moore. No one could look at her and call her 'fat', but she's not a rail either. Kudos to her for that.
I remember seeing Jennifer Lopez in Savannah during the Bennifer days, and Yeah. That is one hellacious ass. Saw her in some beach pictures the other day and she's still got it. She's not fat at all, and you damn sure can't tell me an ass like that fits into a size 2, 4, or even 6. 
Props to them for that, I think.


----------



## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glam8babe* 

 
_yeh she DOES look rotten and like a boy.. i mean on the red carpet and stuff she looks 'perfect' but thats a loads of bullshit, she has a straight up n down body shes a size DOUBLE ZERO!!!!!!! thats gross and shes not naturally like that at all ive seen pictures in magazines from when shes younger, ohh and have you seen her with no makeup on? if she was walking down the street u wudnt wanna look at her twice coz shes not even pretty unless she has her makeup professionally done and has been airbrushed._

 

That is Your opinion. and you are entitled to it. but some people ARE naturally a size 00,  and that does  NOT make them rotten or gross. I used to have a very good friend who was a size 0, NATURALLY and she was just built very small with no curves, and people would ALWAYS tell her she looked "gross" , that she needed "help" and all sorts of extremely rude things, She was quite hurt by these things, and she told me about all of them. 

You wouldn't tell someone "ew your disgustingly Fat! you look like an elephant!"  would you?


----------



## ratmist (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MxAxC-_ATTACK* 

 
_That is Your opinion. and you are entitled to it. but some people ARE naturally a size 00,  and that does  NOT make them rotten or gross. I used to have a very good friend who was a size 0, NATURALLY and she was just built very small with no curves, and people would ALWAYS tell her she looked "gross" , that she needed "help" and all sorts of extremely rude things, She was quite hurt by these things, and she told me about all of them. 

You wouldn't tell someone "ew your disgustingly Fat! you look like an elephant!"  would you?_

 
Without defending what was said (I don't believe it's fair or right to call anyone 'rotten', regardless of size, and I do believe there are naturally thin women, but the numbers have skyrocketed since the size 0 trend, and that is probably not a genetic coincidence), I think the difference between making fun of someone who is thin and someone who is overweight is kinda backwards.  Every girl I've know who is really thin actually seems kinda pleased under all the huffy anger and endless rants - and this may be incredibly unpopular to state, but I honestly believe they feel justified when someone gets annoyed at them for being thin.  It's like a backwards compliment, because most of the girls I've known work bloody hard to get in shape _and_ be fashionably thin.  The more disgusting the comment about it, the more these women seem convinced that they simply must be doing something right, because why else would these women get so jealous and catty?  Being called out on it - being called an anorexic, or being asked if she's a bulimic - rarely meant really hurt feelings to these friends of mine, because there was this kind of strange pride that came out instead, something that roughly translates to "No shit I'm thin, I work really hard at it, and by the way, I'm a helluva lot healthier than you, so sod off."  

That being said, I am absolutely certain there are naturally (as in, they don't have an exercise regime and they do eat properly, as opposed to those that are on a strict diet and are exercise bunnies) thin ladies out there who really are hurt when someone assumes they have an eating disorder.  However, I honestly believe there are a lot of women who thrive on the nasty comments, and cannot wait to hear them applied to themselves.  It works like a compliment because it actually affirms how unique and different you are simply by being thin - the thinner the better!


----------



## Marielle001 (Aug 18, 2007)

Can't we all have an "I'm okay, you're okay" hug? I think most of the stuff said on this thread was internet misunderstanding stuff. I've definitely reread posts or journal entries and thought to myself "wow I'm such a snot online" or read a response and thought "their interpretation is definitely not how I meant it." It happens.

On topic: Most of the original photos look fine until you compare them to the airbrushed version...


----------



## xIxSkyDancerxIx (Aug 18, 2007)

Wow... heated thread lol

On the 00 topic.. my friend's wife goes between a size 00 and 0 and she's just naturally that skinny, but she's really small and petite so maybe that's why. But yah, she's a size 00 with natural C cup boobs, and I know people give her a hard time because they thing something or another is fake etc etc etc. 

IMO.. does it really matter who's what size? I admit that I've thought a few means things about people bigger and smaller than me, but in the end it doesn't really matter does it? :/ 

I have small boobs but according to my friend's I have a pretty big butt, but who cares? I have people that love me for me, and more importantly I love me for me.. 

So let's all be happy lol


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## glam8babe (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MxAxC-_ATTACK* 

 
_That is Your opinion. and you are entitled to it. but some people ARE naturally a size 00, and that does NOT make them rotten or gross. I used to have a very good friend who was a size 0, NATURALLY and she was just built very small with no curves, and people would ALWAYS tell her she looked "gross" , that she needed "help" and all sorts of extremely rude things, She was quite hurt by these things, and she told me about all of them. 

You wouldn't tell someone "ew your disgustingly Fat! you look like an elephant!" would you?_

 

haha well im not fat =) im happy with my curves and im glad i dont look like im ready to drop dead with my teeth rotting away, my hair falling out, my skin being dull and all those other sick things. and its not my problem they are that 'naturally' skinny maybe they should build some muscle but whatever i know what im talking about.. here in the UK like in every magazines its like 'curves are SEXY' and victoria beckham has the worst body like nicole richie and all the other anorexics. They say they dont have an eating disorder but they clearly do. Victoria was a UK size 10 back in her spice girl days which is what i am now.. and now shes a uk size 4 [US 0] and looks sick! and nicole richie was normal [abit chubby but she could have easily toned up] and now look at her AND shes pregnant. it looks sick to be honest and i dont care if any of you think being size 0 is sexy because it f*cking isnt! ohh and Lilly Cole [top model] now has curves and has gone up a dress size because she hated being size 0 and wanted to look womanly so it just goes to show ya 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 even Jean Paul Gaultier the fashion designer put a size 22 model down his run way earlier this year as another way to say 'FUCK THE SIZE 0 SCUM BAGS!'


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2007)

I think saying 'scum bags' is really harsh, and a size 22 isn't attractive or healthy either, anymore than an unnatural 0 is.


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## Calhoune (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glam8babe* 

 
_haha well im not fat =) im happy with my curves and im glad i dont look like im ready to drop dead with my teeth rotting away, my hair falling out, my skin being dull and all those other sick things. and its not my problem they are that 'naturally' skinny maybe they should build some muscle but whatever i know what im talking about.. here in the UK like in every magazines its like 'curves are SEXY' and victoria beckham has the worst body like nicole richie and all the other anorexics. They say they dont have an eating disorder but they clearly do. Victoria was a UK size 10 back in her spice girl days which is what i am now.. and now shes a uk size 4 [US 0] and looks sick! and nicole richie was normal [abit chubby but she could have easily toned up] and now look at her AND shes pregnant. it looks sick to be honest and i dont care if any of you think being size 0 is sexy because it f*cking isnt! ohh and Lilly Cole [top model] now has curves and has gone up a dress size because she hated being size 0 and wanted to look womanly so it just goes to show ya 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 even Jean Paul Gaultier the fashion designer put a size 22 model down his run way earlier this year as another way to say 'FUCK THE SIZE 0 SCUM BAGS!'_

 
There are things such as naturally skinny, and there are things such as naturally big.
Honestly, I think being thin suits Nicole Richie better, but she is taking it to an unhealthy extreme.
Just because you prefer women with curves, it doesn't mean that you can bash on those who don't have them. Eva Longoria for example is pretty straight, and I don't think that her just "putting on weight on to become a real woman" will do anything because she will always be pretty straight, she'll just look like a blob with added weight. 
So I guess she's just shit out of luck of ever becoming a real woman huh?

Aslong as you have a womb, in my eyes you'll be a real, beautiful woman.

I thought Kelly Clarksons picture was beautiful, and it makes me sad that they have to do that. I can't imagine modeling for a magazine and then having to watch the photoshopped picture, with almost half of my body gone, I'd be devastated.

I like watching pictures like these from time to time, it makes them feel more like real people. That yes, they can have uneven skin too, they have blubbler welling from the line of their pants too, they too have big butts and no hips. Yay I'm normal


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## flowerhead (Aug 18, 2007)

I don't think calling anyone a scumbag based on their appearance is justified...


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2007)

I think the idea is to be the best the body can be in its natural state...whether the natural state is a 0 or a 12. Eating healthy, getting regular cardiovascular exercise, doing weight bearing exercise, maintaining a healthy level of fat/muscle ratio, and doing what's best for the body. 
Generally speaking, women who are that slim have no muscle tone,  they're skinnyfat. Parts of them are mushy and saggy, and there's nothing under there to hold the skin up. Example? Paris Hilton. She's tall and skinny and has a dimply saggy backside to show for it because she has no muscle tone. Tara Reid took the easy way out, now she's got loose skin and no muscle tone.  One doesn't have to  have be a hardcore athlete to have muscle tone. I can helluva lot more respect a girl who's a size 12 and in the gym working out properly and eating right than the size 2 girl who walks past sucking on a non fat no sugar no whip frappuccino. 
I've got a helluva lot more admiration and respect for women like Jamie Easonpic2 who study the craft and make a lifestyle of it, and maintain their femininity on top of that. 
My favorite female lover ever was 137 lbs and 5f3. That's 4 lbs heavier  than I am now, and she wore a size 1. Her wedding dress was a size 2 taken in.  Her body was tighter than an apache bowstring. She worked out daily and ate healthy and took care of herself and it showed. And, had she been a size 6 instead of a size 1, I still would have been just as attracted to her. 

Women who don't take care of themselves whether they're skinny or fat, aren't attractive.


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## Beauty Mark (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:

  Did you see her Chanel (Coco Mademoiselle) advertisement? They gave her breasts again!  
 
They gave her nice breasts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Even though it's dumb to digitally give her breasts, I will say they gave her proportionate ones and not huge, over the top ones.

The Gaultier weight thing was more of a stunt than an actual celebration of larger women. Has he continued that trend in his shows, using more common sizes or large women? No, he has not. This has nothing to do with my personal opinion of large women, it's just what happened.

Some people, like Keira Knightly, are very thin and look like they're still healthy. I don't think criticizing the thin or fat is great. Yeah, some extraordinarily thin women get off on the criticism, but most of the ones I've known haven't or are suffering from other issues. If you think being extremely thin is unhealthy yet those women enjoy the criticism, why are you feeding into it?

I hate to break it to people, but calling someone anorexic or bulimic looking nowadays is meant as an insult a lot of the time. Who here hasn't honestly heard someone say or write, "Oh she's so anorexic. It's so disgusting." If the person is truly suffering from an eating disorder, anorexia isn't any more disgusting than depression, bipolar disorder, etc. It's sad. Even though the media celebrates thin (but not too thin, of course, or the anorexia/bulimia speculation starts), people you know purposefully insulting you to your face because you're thin is still hurtful.

 Quote:

  Generally speaking, women who are that slim have no muscle tone, they're skinnyfat.  
 
Allure ran an article about women who don't exercise but are very thin. I think they got winded doing relatively simple activities, like going up a few flights of stairs. It turned out they were pretty unhealthy even if their bodies were thin.


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## Shimmer (Aug 18, 2007)

I think therein lies the crux of the problem. 
It's 'obvious' an obese person is unhealthy. It's 'obvious' what they are doing to their bodies.
It's not as obvious for a slim woman to be determined as unhealthy onsight.
Yet...she may be equally unhealthy in her own body as the heavy woman. 
Helluva  thing, the human body.


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## user79 (Aug 19, 2007)

I think women criticize other women the most, and this thread is a testament of that. People's weight and their curves or lack of them should never be such a big issue. We are only reinforcing the stereotypes of the ideal figure. People come in all shapes and sizes, and we shouldn't be pushing our views on anyone.


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## kuuipo1207 (Aug 20, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Kimberleigh* 

 
_I may be reiterating someone else's comment, but I think it's worth mentioning it again; this is so disturbing to me. I get 4 magazines a month: Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, In Style, Marie Claire, and Parenting (yeah, yeah, yeah! LOL!). Although I had a pretty good idea that mostly everything is airbrushed in all of them...well, maybe not Parenting as much, it just makes me really sad that it's come to this. It's sad that our culture now has to stoop to this never ending inability to achieve the "look" that a certain celeb has when said celebrity doesn't even look that good. How can they not be screaming and yelling about this? Don't *they* look in the mirrors and see that they're not as perfect as these magazines are making them out to be? I've heard of people like Keira Knightly pitching a bitch because they've enhanced her boobs for a movie ad (it was a knights of the round table movie, but for the life of me, I can't come up with the title), but I can't recall a whole lot of others complaining about this..._

 

the movie is "King Arthur"....rather good movie too. Gives a different perspective on the whole King Arthur and his knights of the round table story.



---ooops...had I finished reading the rest of the post I would have noticed that it stated the movie. Oh well.

I'd try to respond with something more relative to the topic at hand, but I've been reading it over the past couple of days and really don't want to get involved...but I'll comment anyway. I agree with lots of people on here and pretty much disagree with a couple of people...mainly the name calling/assuming ones. Just because someone is a size double-zero doesn't mean that they are "rotten" or "disgusting". Unattractive, sure. Sickly, maybe, if they like look they're not getting the nutrients they need and they look like Shimmer said "skinnyfat".  But that's just my opinion. And that's really all that any of this is...is peoples' opinions. If someone says something I don't like, well, sure I get angry about it. But then I click the little "x" or just choose to ignore the comment that was made, cause in reality, the only thing that matters is what I think of myself, and not what some bratty little teenager in a retail store thinks of me.


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## MarieLisa_Smile (Aug 20, 2007)

Here's a poem/picture I found about people being different sizes and shape....

All Gods People





Ever wonder why we judge other actions
What makes us think we know what is best
Each one must be their own person
We must do what we have to do
to endure lives hardships
Each of us are different
Depending on different methods to live our lives
God made each and everyone of us different
Telling us not to judge

We forget sometimes,
to just live life as best we can
Forgetting each of us are the same
We just come in different colors,shapes and sizes.
None of us are better, than the other
In Gods eyes, we are all the same
So look at your family, friends
and neighbors, through Gods eyes
You will see, the best in me

Don't judge me, just love me for myself
God does, so why can't you?
Try to right all the wrongs in your life
Not looking for them in others
There is room for all of us
Look for the good
Never the bad
Always look ahead
Never back
Enjoy all that you have
Never hating what you don't

*Ann Taylor*​


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## aziza (Aug 20, 2007)

Halle Berry is such a beauty! Wow...and Eva Langoria has such a cute little body. Curves or no curves, she's still fabulous. It is a shame that they cut Kelly Clarkson in half...she's a hottie with a body.

Nothing we see in magazines is reality. What a fluke.


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## kuuipo1207 (Aug 20, 2007)

It cracks me up how the tweaked Julia Stiles' picture...increasing her bust and her butt, which imo, gives an over exaggrated curve to her back that almost makes her look pregnant.


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## MAC_Pixie04 (Aug 22, 2007)

Well, the photographers of the before shots SUCK.  The makeup artists suck a little bit too.  Maybe if they did a better job initially, pictures wouldn't need so much retouching.

What's funny though is that when you see them in stock news footage (which is so shotty it can't possibly have been retouched as much as a photo) they still look amazing.  it's totally confusing...wdfxup???


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## jillianjiggs (Aug 22, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MAC_Pixie04* 

 
_Well, the photographers of the before shots SUCK. The makeup artists suck a little bit too. Maybe if they did a better job initially, pictures wouldn't need so much retouching.

What's funny though is that when you see them in stock news footage (which is so shotty it can't possibly have been retouched as much as a photo) they still look amazing. it's totally confusing...wdfxup???_

 
we all have bad photos of us taken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 people who are pretty in real life, might not always be in photos. sometimes it catches you in a bad light, or the camera gets EVERY detail and imperfection... just because you look bad in a photo doesnt mean you arent good looking. 

most of these ladies are naturally beautiful, just had some bad shots taken (possibly after a 16 hour flight? no sleep the night before? a stressful movie shoot? all can take a toll on your looks)

also, i feel like these shots were taken intentionally BAD so the photoshopper could show off his/her skills for their portfolio, or purposely chose the worst photo of the bunch, etc...


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## Beauty Mark (Aug 22, 2007)

I think the MUA might not put so much effort into it, because s/he knows there'll be digital editing.


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## BeautyPsycho (Aug 25, 2007)

Oh my... real women have curves? Who said that? 17 year old? You are not a woman yet...
Females come in different shapes and sizes, and this thread is supposed to show us how silly it is to try and make everyone look exactly the same! And then we have "0 is where its at" and "real women have curves"... Well, we come in different shapes and sizes, and we are all REAL! 
I don't have big boobs,but I believe that my butt is really nice and juicy- does that make me half-real?


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## kimmy (Aug 25, 2007)

i wish they didn't take the freckles off that last girl...she's absolutely beautiful with those freckles.


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## spam_musubi_ (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *kimmy* 

 
_i wish they didn't take the freckles off that last girl...she's absolutely beautiful with those freckles._

 
wow the only reason i read through this whole thread was to make sure someone said that. her before picture is so perfect. i loved it. this thread is crazy.


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## SparklingWaves (Aug 31, 2007)

My mother always says, "If you want to find true untampered female beauty, go to the cradle." hmmmm


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## thestarsfall (Sep 1, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *flowerhead* 

 
_You can be skinny and have a waist!_

 
OH yah!!! My friend is a size 3 and is SUPER curvy...like if it was measured off her waist I think she would be a 0 or a 1 but she has 34 C boobs and rather wide hips...so  totally...

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Seriously, you can always tell who has worked retail, and who hasn't.  Because people who have, are respectful of how they handle clothing in stores.  Wheras the ones who leave the dressing rooms with clothes on the floor, and leave things on the table in a messy pile, have not._

 
I've apparently worked in retail by your logic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haha...naw, I just have social anxiety so I would rather take things back myself than give them to the person there...i always feel I need an explanation as to why I am not going to purchase their merchandise

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *kimmy* 

 
_i wish they didn't take the freckles off that last girl...she's absolutely beautiful with those freckles._

 
Agreed!

my other thought is a lot of the time I find that people (on other sites...not hear) are saying all this "curves are beautiful, etc etc" and then they link pictures of Eva....uh....something wrong with that methinks...


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## Azuresyren (Sep 4, 2007)

It's interesting to see how our perception of beauty changes when we see the unedited pictures - if we always saw unedited pictures of celebs, would we still see them as beautiful? To be honest, I wouldn't recognise many of those people without the photoshop - some almost look completely different compared to their original pictures.


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## kenmei (Sep 5, 2007)

Interesting...

But I actually thought that a lot of people in the before pictures didn't look too bad. Sure, the lighting was a bit off, and they might be chunkier than the before, but I thought that the majority of them looked pretty enough. But then again, pretty enough isn't enough for Hollywood...


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## PRiNCiPESSAx4 (Sep 6, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *kuuipo1207* 

 
_It cracks me up how the tweaked Julia Stiles' picture...increasing her bust and her butt, which imo, gives an over exaggrated curve to her back that almost makes her look pregnant._

 
i thought this too but couldnt tell if i was seeing things!

also halle berrys before photo is just amazing haha what a beautiful woman i cant get over how perfect the before was too!


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## kimmy (Sep 7, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *♥MiCHiE♥* 

 
_I don't know, but she's straight up and down. And, he's right.




_

 
heyy i have more curves than eva longoria...how do you like that? made my day. hahaha


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## lafemmenoir (Sep 10, 2007)

*I thought I read somewhere cellulite is often genetic and THAT is why some thin women have it.  Not because they are simply out of shape...*


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## chako012 (Sep 11, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_yes size zero is where it's at. 
Let me go barf my high protein and complex carb lunch now, so I won't have the energy to walk my dog, chase my kids, or climb the ceiling tonight so I can fit into your ideals of beauty. 
In doing so, I'll go ahead and ruin my hair, my skin, and my nails, because the lack of nutrition will take its toll, because hey, size zero is where it's at right? And, having an athletic body that's actually USEFUL for something besides being a clothes hanger is obviously not attractive._

 
Well not all of us need to me bullimic to be a size 0..what if you were born with genes that let you not put on weight! I eat all the junk food under the sun and still cannot put more then a certain amount of weight on. A friend of my is over 170 cm's tall weighs 47 kgs and cannot for the life of him put on weight even after goign to the doctor and drinking protien shakes every day...some of us MIGHT WANT curves and can't for the life of us put the kilos on to get them


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## Shimmer (Sep 11, 2007)

Everyone who's thin is naturally so.


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## user79 (Sep 11, 2007)

^ Obviously most people aren't natural size 0's but some people _are_, and have difficulty gaining weight. I had a friend who was always rail thin and people called her anorexic, bulimic, etc. Which was hard for her because she wasn't! She ate perfectly normal but she didn't gain weight because of high metabolism. I think it's the same as calling an overweight person a "fat slob".


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## Shimmer (Sep 11, 2007)

It's not something new. As long as fat kids have been made fun of so have beanpoles, stringbeans, skinny minnies, and sticks. I remember my grandmother making fun of me for being straight up and down.


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 11, 2007)

Anyone who sticks out from what's perceived as "normal" gets made fun of. And it varies from culture to culture. One of my friends is Chinese and her family makes fun of her for being dark. She's about the same shade as most medium-toned Southeast Asians


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## lafemmenoir (Sep 11, 2007)

Does that make it right?  That seems a bit juvenile as does "He/she started it."  I am glad I am more fact based than to take some statements here as law.


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## Shimmer (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't say it makes it right, I'm saying it's not new, as some would state.


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## glam8babe (Sep 11, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *BeautyPsycho* 

 
_Oh my... real women have curves? Who said that? 17 year old? You are not a woman yet...
Females come in different shapes and sizes, and this thread is supposed to show us how silly it is to try and make everyone look exactly the same! And then we have "0 is where its at" and "real women have curves"... Well, we come in different shapes and sizes, and we are all REAL! 
I don't have big boobs,but I believe that my butt is really nice and juicy- does that make me half-real? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 
so what if im 17? it doesnt mean i havnt grown! i dont have big boobs but i have a nice 'juicy' butt too i have hips, thighs and im proud that i do so your saying im not a woman yet? god sake theres 12 year olds out there who have bigger tits than 30 yr olds. every1 grows differently and at different stages in life so who are you to say "your not a woman yet" well im glad im young anyway! its not a bad thing now is it


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## Shimmer (Sep 11, 2007)

The difference in perspective between a 17 year old and a 27, 37, and 47 year old is inexplicable.


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 11, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *lafemmenoir* 

 
_Does that make it right?  That seems a bit juvenile as does "He/she started it."  I am glad I am more fact based than to take some statements here as law._

 
No, of course not. No one is arguing that. I'm just analyzing why people's actions are what they are. Read what people wrote. No one said, "It's okay to make fun of someone different than you."

It's a fact that people make fun of those who are different than they are. It's like making fun of the first girl who gets breasts or is a foot taller than the boys. No one knows who "started" the idea of making fun of those different than they are. I'm not saying it's acceptable that my friend's family is assy about her being darker than a "normal" Chinese person. 

I used the example of my friend, because people often note being made of for their paleness. I'm more trying note that you really can't please everyone, because everyone has different values in beauty. My friend's family would probably love it if she were goth pale. Some cultures think being thin is great, while being overweight is the best. Eva Longoria would probably have the ideal body for 1920s flapper style clothes.

 Quote:

  i dont have big boobs but i have a nice 'juicy' butt too i have hips, thighs and im proud that i do so your saying im not a woman yet?  
 
You're biologically a woman because you have a vagina, best of my knowledge. Everyone has hips and thighs and ass; it just depends on other factors of how curved you're going to be. 

Having curves or a vagina does not make a woman in character, however.


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## xolovinyoo (Sep 12, 2007)

i'm a size 0 and i have curves :] im glad im  a size 0 though, because im very small so ive got a really big butt and nice boobs! HAHA so yeah true, you dont gotta be an anorexic to be a size 0.


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## tsukiyomi (Sep 12, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xolovinyoo* 

 
_you don't have to be an anorexic to be a size 0._

 
Very true. Some people are naturally that small but it is very rare. Most women who are a size zero starve themselves to be that thin because of the media and this ridiculous celebrity obsession. In my humble opinion.


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## Beauty Mark (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, there's also vanity sizing. I received an order from Old Navy yesterday and it turns out there XS is too big for me! I haven't lost weight recently, either, and I compared it to other clothes I have that are XS from there.


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## ratmist (Sep 14, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_Well, there's also vanity sizing. I received an order from Old Navy yesterday and it turns out there XS is too big for me! I haven't lost weight recently, either, and I compared it to other clothes I have that are XS from there._

 
God, there's a store that has some crazy sizing.  I just bought a lovely wool skirt there in a size 8, which fit perfectly, and then two pairs of their mid-rise corduroy trousers in size 12, which also fit perfectly.  The only explanation I can come up with is that the skirt sits directly on my waist, and the mid-rise actually sits on my hips.  

Oh, and a mini-rant:  I hate that I can't find shirts that really fit.  I have a 34D chest, but apparently a size 8 waist.  If I get a size large shirt/blouse/top/whatever, it fits appropriately around my chest, but billows around my waist and back.  If I go smaller, my breasts don't fit properly.  It's really annoying!  (end rant!)


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## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Sep 14, 2007)

try buying pants when you have a huge ass and a small waist , thats no fun either! If they fit around the bum, theres a huge gap at the waist, and they fall down constantly, if they fit the waist the rear is waayy to small and snug you cant even sit down properly without losing circulation to your legs and showing massive crack.


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## xsnowwhite (Sep 14, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MxAxC-_ATTACK* 

 
_try buying pants when you have a huge ass and a small waist , thats no fun either! If they fit around the bum, theres a huge gap at the waist, and they fall down constantly, if they fit the waist the rear is waayy to small and snug you cant even sit down properly without losing circulation to your legs and showing massive crack._

 
ugh thats what happens to me. Seriously though i have to buy 2 sizes bigger just for jeans to fit my freaking thighs/butt!! Sucks!


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## j_absinthe (Sep 15, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MAC_Pixie04* 

 
_Well, the photographers of the before shots SUCK.  The makeup artists suck a little bit too.  Maybe if they did a better job initially, pictures wouldn't need so much retouching._

 
My thoughts exactly. That photo of Naomi Watts is a prime example.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_I think the MUA might not put so much effort into it, because s/he knows there'll be digital editing._

 
I hate that attitude in working MUA's nowadays. Luckily, there are still some of us who believe in doing the best work possible so that there's as little of the retouching done as possible. 

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *kimmy* 

 
_i wish they didn't take the freckles off that last girl...she's absolutely beautiful with those freckles._

 
I agree. If they didn't want freckles, again, they should've used a thicker application of the foundation.

I initially saw this site when it was posted on Dlisted, and I've seen other photographers and retouchers who've done the same. I'm both a retoucher AND a MUA, so it really pisses me off when lazy ass MUA's do a half ass job and expect it all to be done in post. It's one thing to rectify flaws and even out textures and lighting and whatnot, but retouching can be taxing, and with the money I assume these supposed artists are getting paid, they should be doing a bang up job. 

I also am annoyed with overly airbrushed pictures, but that's not so much the fault of the retoucher as it is the client.


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## slowhoney (Sep 18, 2007)

Every single person there looks better without the retouching. I agree that the images needed some brightening and opacity/contrast adjustments, but I think the retouching is so overkill and so unnecessary. I think airbrushed images are pretty disgusting and I just do not see the reason for this type of falseness and 'covering up' in society. We all have our flaws; no one is going to go insane because a magazine model has some freckles. Why are these things airbrushed out? It's so ridiculous. And like, what is with that one of Julia Stiles? LIke j_absinthe, it's as if they MUAs are doing a half-assed job--what didn't they just put more colourful make-up on her in the photo shoot itself? I am a firm believer that all of this beauty can be achieved with some make-up to enhance what is already there. Hell, a lot of people don't even need make-up at all (I personally do so boo for me). 

Also, VANITY SIZING SUCKS. That is all I have to say on that topic. It is a disgusting practice and should be outlawed.


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## righteothen (Sep 18, 2007)

I agree, there should be no such thing as vanity sizes.  The clothing industry needs to standardize sizes, to make it easier for all women, regardless of size, to find clothing that fits.  Who cares if you are only a 6 in one brand, but a 8 in another?  Doesn't wearing something that fits, and looks great on you, far out-way the size that you could be telling people you wear?


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## Shimmer (Sep 18, 2007)

I wish women's clothes measured like men's.


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## heart (May 1, 2011)

wowww i love this site.  it gives me comfort to know that celebs are people with imperfections too, haha.  and that my photos aren't so bad--i just don't have the multi-thousand dollar image editing programs.


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