# Ricky Martin flips off president..



## xmrsvindieselx (Feb 24, 2007)

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) -- Ricky Martin, who was a headliner at the 2001 inauguration ball for President George W. Bush, has a message for the American commander in chief about war.

At a recent concert, the 35-year-old singer stuck up his middle finger when he sang the president's name in his song "Asignatura Pendiente," which includes the words, "a photo with Bush." The gesture last Friday prompted cheers from thousands of fans in the San Juan stadium.

On Thursday, the Puerto Rican heartthrob repeated his criticism of the Iraq war and explained his changed position on Bush.

"My convictions of peace and life go beyond any government and political agenda and as long as I have a voice onstage and offstage, I will always condemn war and those who promulgate it," Martin said about his action in an e-mail statement sent to The Associated Press via a spokesman.

Martin, like other artists, has been highly critical of the war in Iraq.

Best known to international audiences for his smash hit "Livin' la Vida Loca," Martin is a huge star in Puerto Rico, where symbols of national identity -- such as the Puerto Rican flag and anthem -- are widely adored, and residents have complicated feelings about Washington.

The United States seized Puerto Rico in 1898 at the end of the Spanish-American War.

Puerto Rico's 4 million people are U.S. citizens and can be drafted into the military but cannot vote for president and have no voting representation in Congress. They also do not pay federal taxes.


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## Hawkeye (Feb 24, 2007)

I think he's just mad that he doesn't have as big of a fan base as he used to in the U.S.


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## d_flawless (Feb 24, 2007)

freedom of speech...it got the dixie chicks 5 grammys


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## Hawkeye (Feb 24, 2007)

Yeah but they never really lost their popularity in the U.S. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



They just lost a bigger fan base.

Ricky Martin really only had a handful of hits in the U.S. where as the dixie chicks at least had 3 or 4 hit albums under their belts.


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## Beauty Mark (Feb 24, 2007)

Wow, he's still around and sort of relevant?


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## Hawkeye (Feb 24, 2007)

You're being much to kind to him by citing that he is "sort of" relevant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol


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## hyperRealGurl (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_I think he's just mad that he doesn't have as big of a fan base as he used to in the U.S. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
while that might be true.... I dont think it has anything to do with what he did


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## Hawkeye (Feb 25, 2007)

It was really a tongue in cheek remark- 

but since he did perform at the inauguration ball for the Pres. while he was still in his prime in the U.S. where he had a very wide fan base at the time- one can assume he thought he had America in the palm of his hand. However, America can only take so much of any singer he lost his American fans. Today he isn't nearly as popular as he once was at the time of the inauguration ball. So it isn't too far fetched to assume that Martin flicked off the President NOT because he is upset with the war but he feels the President is personally responsible for making him lose his fan base. 

That's just me. He can site all sorts of reasons-but after he performed at the ball his popularity (which was already beginning to slope) really just fell. 

It does make you wonder why he really was flicking off the President and I still say that I don't believe he was doing it because he was hopping on the anti war bandwagon.


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## Beauty Mark (Feb 25, 2007)

That would be so idiotic of him to think that he lost his fanbase because of Bush.

Being a pop star and staying fresh and interesting is difficult. The public is fickle, and your competition could appeal to them any day. That's why there are so many one-hit wonders. He's lucky that he had the hits he had and he's still able to make a good living performing. Most singers/performers cannot say that.


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## Hawkeye (Feb 25, 2007)

Idiotic to us, yes. 

ITA Beauty Mark. He is lucky.


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## Shimmer (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *d_flawless* 

 
_freedom of speech...it got the dixie chicks 5 grammys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
That, and they have talent.

I was a fan of theirs. I don't deny them freedom of speech at all, I do ask that when they make their point they consider the venue. Though, I have to admit, Natalie Maines never would have said, in AAC in Dallas, Texas, the same thing she said while out of the country. That speaks loads for her character. *shrug*


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## Hawkeye (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree. I think the backlash would have not been nearly as bad if she had said it in TX or anywhere in the states. :/


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## MAC_Whore (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_That, and they have talent.

I was a fan of theirs. I don't deny them freedom of speech at all, I do ask that when they make their point they consider the venue. Though, I have to admit, Natalie Maines never would have said, in AAC in Dallas, Texas, the same thing she said while out of the country. That speaks loads for her character. *shrug*_

 
I remember when that whole Dixie Chicks thing happened and so many people were saying how they were just exercising their right to free speech...bla blaa.  Sure they were, but as stated above, 1) they were cowardly about it and 2) they may have freedom of speech, but that doesn't guarantee that everyone will like what you say.

I remember watching them on some Diane Sawyer special after that happened.  Natalie Maines was apologizing like she had a gun to her head.  You could tell that she wasn't there apologizing because she meant it, it was because they saw their sales slipping.  Again, loads of charecter, eh?  

As far as Ricky Martin, I understand he is from PR and politically that puts him in a gray area and that may add to his feelings of frustration.   As stated below:

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *xmrsvindieselx* 

 
_...Puerto Rico's 4 million people are U.S. citizens and can be drafted into the military but cannot vote for president and have no voting representation in Congress. They also do not pay federal taxes._

 
BUT, that been said, when the famous use part of their cushy lives to rail against "the man" I could care less what comes out of their mouthes.  Their words hold no weight in my decisions.  

Any jackass can flip someone off.  If you really care, get involved in politics.  Join the army.  Actually have a leg to f*cking stand on before you open your mouth or unfurl your pampered finger.


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## Beauty Mark (Feb 26, 2007)

I have to admit, if I were famous, I would probably try to involve myself in some things that are near and dear to me, BUT I would make sure I knew what I was talking about and do it in a much more mature fashion.


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## xmrsvindieselx (Feb 27, 2007)

YES ricky is still around. maybe he isn't singing, but hes been doimg A LOT of charity work. with the tsunami( yes it was a while ago but he helped out A LOT ) and funding hospitals being made in puerto rico.. while is a hell of a lot more than what most celebs spend their money on.. so he may not be as popular as he used to..but the man is 35 years old. and can still shake his bonn bonnn like no otherrr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




haha seriously though. I dont think it had to do with him believing bush ruined his career. I believe Ricky said he doesn't agree with decisions bush is making.
and believe it or not, ricky still has LOTS of fans and has had like 2 new cds in the past 2 years or so ( i may be wrong about the time period but its something like that..) so I dont think he has to worry about not having fans.


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## amoona (Feb 27, 2007)

haha I think it's kinda funny. It's really not that serious ... haven't you guys ever jus wanted to flip someone off?! lol I have no idea why that little finger can release some kind of anger sometimes. But hey it's only a finger.

I personally really like Ricky Martin. I don't care about his music but I do know he is VERY popular in other parts of the world. I really like the guy because like xmrsvindieselx said he does do a lot of charity work. Not to long ago he was in the Middle East doing humanitarian work in Palestine.

So yes he doesn't have a huge fan base in the US but I like the fact that he uses his international fan base to bring awareness to different causes. And I'm glad he brought it to people's attention that sometimes jackasses like Bush just need the finger lol.


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## MAC_Whore (Feb 27, 2007)

You can disagree with someone's actions or politics, but flipping them off at a concert does nothing.  It's just childish and pointless.  It doesn't solve the problem, it just works people up.


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## Hawkeye (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:

  You can disagree with someone's actions or politics, but flipping them off at a concert does nothing. It's just childish and pointless. It doesn't solve the problem, it just works people up.  
 
Exactly. It's one of those things that make other people thing that you can't be that smart-#1 if that's the best you can do, #2 exactly-how old is this guy? Is he 12? 8?

Seriously I tell people this all the time its fine to disagree with people but at some point you have to realize if you go about it acting like a freaking child then you are really working against the point you are trying to get across and just showing ignorance, rudeness, etc and people you are trying to convince to your side - you are making them wonder- why should we if you act like THIS?

One of my favorite Examples of this is Cindy Sheehan, & Michael Moore. 

Why because they aren't doing anything except calling President Bush and the administration names, one defaces government buildings and dishonors a veterines memorial. The other tries to come up with conspiracys. Both share the common ground of doing nothing but calling the president names and it's usually a F***ing idiot. 

And to me- personally that just doesn't make me want to listen to their point of view because they have no substance. That's all they are going to do. It's sad because you know they are free to believe what they do and I'm sure if they actually spoke without obscenities, in a logical thought out manner, then maybe yes the protests etc would be 1,000 times more effective. But they don't so they are really undermining their own cause.

And then with all these celebs doing it- they aren't doing anything ground breaking they are only "preaching to the choir." That's all they are doing. They won't change anyones mind NOR will they help other people see their point of view.

I mean I have to admit-when we have discussed some hot topics on this board-I was more inclined to listen to people who would seemed to have an idea as to what they were talking about and I got a different perspective on a few things. 

But this thing with Ricky Martin, he was accomplishing absolutely nothing. *shrugs* 

Sorry I get on my little tangents on my soap box. LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You all know that by now though


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## amoona (Feb 27, 2007)

That's the point, it does nothing. Its no big deal. Who cares he flipped off Bush? No biggie to me. It doesn't make me think Ricky Martin is stupid or childish.


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## Hawkeye (Feb 27, 2007)

But then again, you agree with him in the political views. He's not trying to persude you to his point of view. 

Now for someone who doesn't agree with him who he may have tried to be persuading etc (like say myself, for example) it doesn't come across that well. 

It's no big deal to you and thats fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




But to me it's not a huge deal but it does make me note that he's just trying to show off much like an 8 year old would. 

Or for another example: 
Say I wanted to try to get you to like Star Trek (my thing!) and you didn't like star trek. But I wanted you to like Star Trek. You say you don't like Star Trek, so I flick you off. 

What's your next question going to be? it's probably like WTH? 

Or maybe I just started saying stuff that you like was stupid or whatever you would probably say- OK, I just don't like Star Trek and I would appreciate it if you showed me the same respect. By now I'm looking pretty stupid.

OR to take it to a further extent (going back to cindy sheehan) because you didn't like Star Trek I went over to your house and totally defaced it. Why? because you don't like star trek. By this time you've probably figured out I'm crazy and you try to disassociate yourself with me. 

You can see the absurdity of the situation and that's what is happening here. You say it doesn't mean anything when in fact-yes it does-not nearly on the severity of the level of all this but it does raise a lot of questions and make people really second guess the person.

And to make it more personal to you-

I have a feeling you would have a similar reaction I'm having (and I'm not saying it's a big deal because it really isn't-I'm just trying to explain my thinking)- with him doing this if Ricky Martin decided to flick off Mahmoud Abbas. 

And I'm not saying your wrong when you say- hell sometimes I just want to flick someone off, well yeah thats true. Sometimes you do-but that's probably best NOT in a public arena where your just trying to look cool. 

There are other ways to show your displeasure of something, anything than to act out like that. That's all I'm sayin


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## MAC_Whore (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_That's the point, it does nothing. Its no big deal. Who cares he flipped off Bush? No biggie to me. It doesn't make me think Ricky Martin is stupid or childish._

 
I see what your saying.  Conversely though, while it may be no biggie to you, for some it is a big deal.  Pres. Bush is the leader of their country and Ricky Martin giving him the finger is a huge sign of disrespect.  Remember that it is all subjective.  So while you may not care about the President of the USA being insulted, or think that the gesture is that insulting, some may.  So it is a weighted issue in that aspect and it was pointless thing to do in that it solved nothing. 

He's obviously unhappy about what is happening in American policy.  So he flips off the president.  OK.  What did it solve?  Absolutely nothing.   

If you want change go about it in a productive manner.  Don't just sit there throw a finger in the air.  I look at acts like that as akin to a child having a tantrum.  Sure...now you know the kid is upset, but did the tantrum solve anything?

I didn't say it made Ricky Martin childish and stupid, I said the act was childish and stupid.

If I see a musician flip off the president, I do not feel compelled to make a political change.  I just think they look like a fool.  I make my decisions based on something more than substantial than the man who wrote 'Shake your Bon Bon'.

Oh, and maybe it is just me, but I don't see Ricky Martin using the word 'promulgate'.


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## Shimmer (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_That's the point, it does nothing. Its no big deal. Who cares he flipped off Bush? No biggie to me. It doesn't make me think Ricky Martin is stupid or childish._

 
The same argument could be used regarding the cartoonists who drew images of Muhammed. It's not big deal. Who cares they drew Muhammed? Certainly no big deal to me. It doesn't make me think their point is any less valid.


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## amoona (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_The same argument could be used regarding the cartoonists who drew images of Muhammed. It's not big deal. Who cares they drew Muhammed? Certainly no big deal to me. It doesn't make me think their point is any less valid._

 
Um idk why you're bringing that up because that's a totally different issue. That was something done to disrespect a religion and people who hold a certain religious belief. I could understand if Ricky Martin was disrespecting a Jewish or Christian leader. He was flipping off Bush that's why I personally don't see it as a big deal. A majority of US citizens have something negative to say about Bush.

If you'd like to bring up the cartoons we can go into a whole different discussion. It's not the samething.


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## Shimmer (Feb 27, 2007)

That was someone flipping off the President of the United States of America. It's as patently offensive as a cartoon about a religious leader.


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## Hawkeye (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Um idk why you're bringing that up because that's a totally different issue. That was something done to disrespect a religion and people who hold a certain religious belief. I could understand if Ricky Martin was disrespecting a Jewish or Christian leader. He was flipping off Bush that's why I personally don't see it as a big deal. A majority of US citizens have something negative to say about Bush.

If you'd like to bring up the cartoons we can go into a whole different discussion. It's not the samething._

 

Actually it's not that different. 

It is something or a person that stands for something people may agree with. 

What is so different about drawing a Muslim leader as a cartoon and someone flipping someone off. After all neither mean that much. 

It's the same emotion. How is it any different? One is a leader for one value and system and culture the other is a leader for a different value and system. What's different? The way they were being portrayed? The way they were "disrespected"? The person being disrespected? The ideas being disrespected? 

And if you really want to bring in about a majority of americans don't like Bush-well we can turn the same coin and say well - after 9/11... and you have seen it and felt the discrimination-haven't you? When an American goes into a middle eastern country- don't you think they feel the same? 

So really it isn't a big difference. It's two leaders being portrayed poorly. But, it's perfectly acceptable if it is the on you don't like (not you personally but anyone on the opposing side of any issue). 

You say it's not a big issue and really the more I think of it- yes, it is. This is the same entertainer who thought enough of Bush to say hey yes, I'll perform at your inaugeration ball- and then he turns around and does this. 

Bascially what we are saying is: Look at the other side of the coin. If any of this happened to you- would you not be a little annoyed? 

Obviously so because automatically when Shimmer brought up the cartoons, you got defensive real quick. Because it was something that made someone you admire, or like, or think is pretty OK look bad. 

What do you think of the cartoonist? Do you think they are ill educated? Do you think they were making a childlike assumption? Do you think they helped persuade you into their line of thinking?

No. It didn't. It just made the other side look worse.


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## *Stargazer* (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_Actually it's not that different. _

 
You're right. Its not that different. In fact, the only notable difference that I see is that no one is calling for Ricky Martin to be beheaded, rioting in the streets or screaming "War on Puerto Rico, Death on Puerto Rico"


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## Beauty Mark (Feb 27, 2007)

For me, considering that Bush isn't just someone who cut me off while driving or stole my parking spot, it seems like an immature action. I don't agree with Bush's actions at all and to me, flicking off someone is a trivial way of dealing with it. It reiterates that people who aren't for Bush's presidency are immature and childish, even though that statement can be made for both sides. You can't change those people, the ones who are really pro and anti, but you can change the moderates. If people actively behave like that, you turn off the moderates and possibly send them over to the other side.

Even if I don't care for people like Michael Moore, at least he's putting his view out there in a more eloquent fashion than a middle finger.


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## xmrsvindieselx (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

  But this thing with Ricky Martin, he was accomplishing absolutely nothing. *shrugs*  
 
I disagree. we wouldnt be having this conversation if nothing was accomplished. 

please calling ricky childish kind of makes me laugh. he is like in the 1 % of celebs catagory that doesnt do stupid shit. celebs do stupid shit allll the time. at least ricky isnt doing half the crazy shit celebs do for attention. he gets it by caring and helping charities. and he does it with a full head of hair and undies on!!


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## Hawkeye (Feb 28, 2007)

We are not calling HIM childish. We are calling his ACTIONS childish.


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

So because he's the president of your country he should be treated in the same light as a major religions prophet?! I'm not even going to continue with this thread because obviously someones trying to start something with me like always. Either way I'd be censored like I usually am if I even try to get into it.

Last time I'm going to say is that no its not the samething. Bush is not a religious figure for one of the largest religions in the world. Ricky Martin is jus a singer flipping of an idiot. When people start worshipping Bush as a religious figure and follow a religion he is a prophet of then it'll be a similar situation.


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Bush is a political leader for the USA. No one is trying to start anything with you, but it is directly the same thing. Bush is a leader for one of the most powerful countries in the world, he's a nationally elected official, and regardless of the feeling of discontent with him right now that's quite pervasive in the nation, he's still our President.
Our President means nothing to you, and that's fine, but your religious guy means nothing to me, so we're rather at an impasse. You're blowing it off like it doesn't mean anything, when to me it does, just the same as you'd be offended by me wearing a Muhammed Rox shirt with his picture on it, though he means nothing to me. 
I could go so far as to say: 
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, the tshirt I'm talking about would be nothing more than a non-Islamic person flipping the bird to a terrorist. <! That statement is just as offensive to you as what you said is to me.

I like you Amoona, and I respect your opinion, usually, though I may disagree with it, but I don't appreciate or respect your opinion on this one.  Yes, he's a singer and a nobody, but he was disrespectful in a pretty vulgar manner. Just because he's a "nobody" doesn't mean I have to like what he did.


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## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_So because he's the president of your country he should be treated in the same light as a major religions prophet?! I'm not even going to continue with this thread because obviously someones trying to start something with me like always. Either way I'd be censored like I usually am if I even try to get into it.

Last time I'm going to say is that no its not the samething. Bush is not a religious figure for one of the largest religions in the world. Ricky Martin is jus a singer flipping of an idiot. When people start worshipping Bush as a religious figure and follow a religion he is a prophet of then it'll be a similar situation._

 

and Mohammed was just a pedophile with a strong personality.... 

I'm sure that, somewhere in your upbringing, you've been given the false impression that you can mold the world to your narrow view.  Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour.  

sorry hon you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you're going to say it's cool to disrespect the leader of my country then it's okay for me to disrespect the icons of your religion.  

Not that I necessarily WOULD but if the shoe fits *shrug*.


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

I said I wont continue with this thread but when I saw Trunkmonkey comment I had to come back to say something. 

Trunkmonkey nobody is trying to mold anyone into believing what I believe. It's my personal opinion and I have stated that it's what I BELIEVE!!! I also didn't say it's "cool" to disrespect Bush I said it's Ricky Martin!!!!! WHO CARES?!

And with the tone of your response I'm surprised Shimmer hasn't censored you like she likes to censor me. I guess I can't say anything on this forum that doesn't relate to make-up because everyone flips it around and tries to bring in my religion into it. Nobody seems to be ok with the fact that this is something that is my personal opinion, if you don't agree that's fine. You're not going to convince me that it's equally as offensive as offended one of the largest religions in the world but purposly disrespecting it's followers. I made a statement of how I feel that it's not that serious and I get crap like "Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour." Interesting ...


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## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I said I wont continue with this thread but when I saw Trunkmonkey comment I had to come back to say something. 

Trunkmonkey nobody is trying to mold anyone into believing what I believe. It's my personal opinion and I have stated that it's what I BELIEVE!!! I also didn't say it's "cool" to disrespect Bush I said it's Ricky Martin!!!!! WHO CARES?!

And with the tone of your response I'm surprised Shimmer hasn't censored you like she likes to censor me. I guess I can't say anything on this forum that doesn't relate to make-up because everyone flips it around and tries to bring in my religion into it. Nobody seems to be ok with the fact that this is something that is my personal opinion, if you don't agree that's fine. You're not going to convince me that it's equally as offensive as offended one of the largest religions in the world but purposly disrespecting it's followers. I made a statement of how I feel that it's not that serious and I get crap like "Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour." Interesting ..._

 

Hey doll face lets not jump the gun here......... Im sure jamie hasnt seen the post yet


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I said I wont continue with this thread but when I saw Trunkmonkey comment I had to come back to say something. 

Trunkmonkey nobody is trying to mold anyone into believing what I believe. It's my personal opinion and I have stated that it's what I BELIEVE!!! I also didn't say it's "cool" to disrespect Bush I said it's Ricky Martin!!!!! WHO CARES?!

And with the tone of your response I'm surprised Shimmer hasn't censored you like she likes to censor me. I guess I can't say anything on this forum that doesn't relate to make-up because everyone flips it around and tries to bring in my religion into it. Nobody seems to be ok with the fact that this is something that is my personal opinion, if you don't agree that's fine. You're not going to convince me that it's equally as offensive as offended one of the largest religions in the world but purposly disrespecting it's followers. I made a statement of how I feel that it's not that serious and I get crap like "Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour." Interesting ..._

 
I don't censor you. I ask you, and I will ask TrunkMonkey, to remember the rules of the site. 

I don't think anyone's NOT okay with the fact that it's your personal opinion, but the people who disagree with you are using rational and wholly logical arguments against your point.

Your opinion is subjective. Your religion is something important to you.  There are many people whose religion is important to them. I'm one of  them. Also important to me are my nation's leaders (regardless of whether I agree with them or not), my nation's flag, and the proper respect that should be shown to both...regardless of anything else, respect the rank and symbol, if not the man.  You don't, and that's fine. 
Because it's _your opinion_ that it's not a big deal, it's not a big deal _to you._
Likewise, it's _my opinion_, going back to my example, that drawing a cartoon of Muhammed with a bomb in his turban is a) not a big deal and b) an observant statement made in a cheeky manner. Muhammed is not important to me, nor will he ever be, so I am able to see the humor in the cartoon while not being offended by it. You're offended by it not because of the content of the cartoon but because it's a picture of Muhammed. 
No one's asking your opinion to change...but they are  (I think) asking you to consider the perspective of others and say "Hm. I didn't look at it that way, but you're right, if I were in your shoes, I definitely can see how that would be offensive."


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_Hey doll face lets not jump the gun here......... Im sure jamie hasnt seen the post yet_

 
I saw it, and have asked  the member to remember the TOS of the site.


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## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I said I wont continue with this thread but when I saw Trunkmonkey comment I had to come back to say something. 

Trunkmonkey nobody is trying to mold anyone into believing what I believe. It's my personal opinion and I have stated that it's what I BELIEVE!!! I also didn't say it's "cool" to disrespect Bush I said it's Ricky Martin!!!!! WHO CARES?!

And with the tone of your response I'm surprised Shimmer hasn't censored you like she likes to censor me. I guess I can't say anything on this forum that doesn't relate to make-up because everyone flips it around and tries to bring in my religion into it. Interesting ..._

 

Who cares?  obviously you do because you're the one that brought it up.  Granted Ricky Martin is a washed up has been but you'd have been happy to post something that anybody did that's disrespectful to him because you have a personal animus towards him. 

As to my tone and censorship it could happen it could NOT happen however if I get my hand spanked on a board for breaking it's rules I try not to break those rules again or find boards that are more along my lines of thinking.  Perhaps you ought to give those lines of thinking a shot. 

As for your religion?  Well I the only one I see that actively recruits people to dress in suits made by Dupont and turn themselves into not very smart bombs is yours.  

Now I am painting with a very broad brush here but you have to admit that when the tables got turned on you you didn't like it much did you?  Learn something from it is my suggestion.


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## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_I saw it, and have asked  the member to remember the TOS of the site. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
wasnt sure if u did. i just dont like it when ppl just  jump to conclusion.  So i had to throw my 2cents in


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_wasnt sure if u did. i just dont like it when ppl just  jump to conclusion.  So i had to throw my 2cents in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
One of the reasons I 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Trunkmonkey* 

 
_I'm sure that, somewhere in your upbringing, you've been given the false impression that you can mold the world to your narrow view.  Let me be the 15th or 50th to attempt to raise your awareness without smacking you with a cluebyfour.   _

 
That's using using rational and wholly logical arguments against my point? Funny. As far as you not being offended by the cartoons of the Prophet I don't expect you to. If you're not Muslim you don't believe in him so why would you be offended? As for the reason why I'm offended by his cartoon ... they drew him with a turban that had a bomb on it. I never said it should matter to you or it should be a big deal. I just don't think it's one the same level.

But since it's ok for people to speak to me the way Trunkmonkey spoke to me, and it's not ok for me to speak freely without being jumped on ... like I said before, I'll stick to the make-up threads. AND yes you have censored me A LOT in the past, if I were to have made the comment that Trunkmonkey did you would have deleted it in a heart beat.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Trunkmonkey* 

 
_Who cares?  obviously you do because you're the one that brought it up.  Granted Ricky Martin is a washed up has been but you'd have been happy to post something that anybody did that's disrespectful to him because you have a personal animus towards him. 

As to my tone and censorship it could happen it could NOT happen however if I get my hand spanked on a board for breaking it's rules I try not to break those rules again or find boards that are more along my lines of thinking.  Perhaps you ought to give those lines of thinking a shot. 

As for your religion?  Well I the only one I see that actively recruits people to dress in suits made by Dupont and turn themselves into not very smart bombs is yours.  

Now I am painting with a very broad brush here but you have to admit that when the tables got turned on you you didn't like it much did you?  Learn something from it is my suggestion._

 
Actually I didn't start this thread ... and you should really study people's religions before you start speaking out your ass. Oh and Shimmer I'm glad to see that you thanked her for her comments about my religion actively recruiting people to turn themselves into bombs.


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Why Amoona does this mean we're not friends?  I mean if I didn't think we were friends I don't think I could bear it.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Actually I didn't start this thread ... and you should really study people's religions before you start speaking out your ass. Oh and Shimmer I'm glad to see that you thanked her for her comments about my religion actively recruiting people to turn themselves into bombs._

 
That's actually not the part of the post I was "thanking" but since you asked I was glad to see a new member who said:
"As to my tone and censorship it could happen it could NOT happen however if I get my hand spanked on a board for breaking it's rules I try not to break those rules again or find boards that are more along my lines of thinking."

As for the rest of the post, I'm sure there are statistics to both support and refute the conclusion, non?


----------



## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Please dont think that you are  not able to speek freely without being jumped on.. B.c that is not the case.  You are also not the only memeber on Specktra that gets censored.  Any memeber that does not follow the TOS gets sensored/edited.   We try to treat everyone the same. So dont point yourself out like that.  Jamie already handled the situtaion, and i think we should just leave it at that.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

WOW I didn't realize I was joining an anti-Muslim forum but I guess I was.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Not anti-Muslim at all.
Anti-HYPOCRISY.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_Please dont think that you are  not able to speek freely without being jumped on.. B.c that is not the case.  You are also not the only memeber on Specktra that gets censored.  Any memeber that does not follow the TOS gets sensored/edited.   We try to treat everyone the same. So dont point yourself out like that.  Jamie already handled the situtaion, and i think we should just leave it at that._

 
She already handled the situation?! Then please explain why it's ok for people to openly and freely make anti-Muslim statements?! Last time I checked this thread was about Ricky Martin and it was in the Entertainment section!!! If I were to make those type of statements and they were anti-Jewish or anti-Christian I would have my comments deleted.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_She already handled the situation?! Then please explain why it's ok for people to openly and freely make anti-Muslim statements?! Last time I checked this thread was about Ricky Martin and it was in the Entertainment section!!! If I were to make those type of statements and they were anti-Jewish or anti-Christian I would have my comments deleted._

 
Again, I'm not making anti-Muslim statements. I'm saying don't be a hypocrite.  And, the thread is about his behaviour and why it's offensive. You said it wasn't, people are disagreeing (myself included) and stating why it was.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

You're not but Trunkmonkey is openly making anti-Muslim statements that have nothing to do with the thread. She's personally attacking me and you're "thanking" her for it. Just proves how much hate people on this forum have towards Muslims. It proves that it's ok to be anti-Muslim in this country because we're the "enemy". This thread didn't have anything to do with Muslim until I made a statement saying I didn't see it as a big deal cuz it's just Ricky Martin and then YOU decided to bring up the fact that I'm Muslim. Because that's all that I am right?!


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_You're not but Trunkmonkey is openly making anti-Muslim statements that have nothing to do with the thread. She's personally attacking me and you're "thanking" her for it. Just proves how much hate people on this forum have towards Muslims. It proves that it's ok to be anti-Muslim in this country because we're the "enemy". This thread didn't have anything to do with Muslim until I made a statement saying I didn't see it as a big deal cuz it's just Ricky Martin and then YOU decided to bring up the fact that I'm Muslim. Because that's all that I am right?!_

 

well your avatar kind of clued me in as well not to mention I lurk this board and only today really had the time to bother with drivel.  however as I really want to be friends with you I'm offering a gift of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





to you


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Did you miss this post regarding the "thanks" feature and the reason I used it?  
No, I didn't bring up the fact that you're Muslim, and then make the leap of logic that since you're Muslim you're wrong. 
I brought up the fact that his actions were disrespectful, regardless of whether _you_ saw them as such, much the same as you viewed the cartoonists actions as disrespectful, though _I_ did not.
TrunkMonkey's statements, while inflammatory and presented in a pretty flat-out deadpan manner, aren't entirely incorrect. 
Instead of getting riled and making assumptions about things, why not bring forth evidence to refute what she's saying? I'm sure you, as someone who has studied her religion and is as knowledgable as you are, have a ton of evidence to the contrary of what she's saying. 
Just because you don't agree with me on a subjective matter doesn't make you wrong, but how you handle the disagreement can cast you in poor light. The same goes for me and how I handle my own disagreement with you on subjective matter. If I fly off the handle and make unfounded assumptions, I'm only damaging my own credibility, no matter how valid my point may be.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

I'm not going to discuss it because this topic isn't about it! Not to mention that TrunkMonkey seems to be a 15 year old child with no knowledge of anything beyond her own world. I don't have the time or engery to try to inform ignorant children about reality. I'm not trying to make anyone agree with me, I was just making a statement of what I thought.

Then I get attacked by it like I always do when I make a comment on something that isn't make-up related. I'm not flying off the handle, I'm just coming to the realization that this forum has a lot of anti-Muslim people, a lot of people who think it's ok to be hateful towards Muslims. Fine, that's America what can I expect. I just realize that I can't make any statements outside of make-up comments without being attacked for being Muslim ... even though my statements had NOTHING to do with me being Muslim.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

You weren't attacked for being Muslim.
Muslims don't bother people. Generally they really really don't. What bothers most people about anyone, Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Moonies, Mormons, whatever, is hypocrisy. 
It's not hateful to say that the Christian religion is full of hypocritical leaders, who more often than not privately embody that which they speak against.
It's likewise not hateful to say that there are a preponderance of people of the Muslim faith who believe it's a great idea to walk into a non combatant marketplace and blow a hole in the ground. 
I don't think trunkmonkey is being ignorant, and the syntax suggests she's probably educated. 
Reality? Which reality? The one were Islam is a religion of peace and love or  the one where car bombs, backpack bombs, and suicide bombers are in the news everyday? Which reality are we going to discuss? I'll gladly discuss either, but when we do, be prepared for me to ask "Ok, peace love harmony, got that but if that's the case then why...?" and expect a reasonable answer.


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

you know amoona if you keep crying you're going to dehydrate.. 

Poor dear


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

TrunkMonkey please be nice. If you have a point to make, by all means, please do so, but don't be deliberately inflammatory. 

Thanks!


----------



## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_
I'm just coming to the realization that this forum has a lot of anti-Muslim people, a lot of people who think it's ok to be hateful towards Muslims. Fine, that's America what can I expect._

 
Im offended by this comment..........

 1: from what i can gather members on this forum is NOT Anti-Muslim...

2:That's (America) I beg to differ......... you shouldnt generalize the american ppl.  B.c all american Ppl are not like that.. Funny how u make that comment.. and at the same time you live in Cali" USA/America... No?


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_TrunkMonkey please be nice. If you have a point to make, by all means, please do so, but don't be deliberately inflammatory. 

Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yes maam... my apologies


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_That's using using rational and wholly logical arguments against my point? Funny. As far as you not being offended by the cartoons of the Prophet I don't expect you to. If you're not Muslim you don't believe in him so why would you be offended? As for the reason why I'm offended by his cartoon ... they drew him with a turban that had a bomb on it. I never said it should matter to you or it should be a big deal. I just don't think it's one the same level.

But since it's ok for people to speak to me the way Trunkmonkey spoke to me, and it's not ok for me to speak freely without being jumped on ... like I said before, I'll stick to the make-up threads. AND yes you have censored me A LOT in the past, if I were to have made the comment that Trunkmonkey did you would have deleted it in a heart beat._

 
I'm not going to defend someone I don't know, but I didnt' read what she said to you as being that harsh, until you reacted the way you did. 
By all m eans, speak freely, it's encouraged, but please don't be offended when others do the same.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_I'll gladly discuss either, but when we do, be prepared for me to ask "Ok, peace love harmony, got that but if that's the case then why...?" and expect a reasonable answer._

 
There a billions of Muslims in the world if you want to know why they do the things they do then you need to ask them directly. I can only imagine why people in Palestine and Iraq blow themselves up. It has nothing to do with Islam, it has to do with politics. If you ask why then I can only refer you to the Qur'an and let you know that in the Qur'an suicide of any kind is a sin and killing innocent people is a sin. That's like me asking you why do Christians blow up abortion clinics?! That's not very Christian of them. Or why do Jews live and support in Israel when infact the Torah forbids a Jewish state until the coming of the Messiah?! That's not very Jewish of them. They feel that it is, even if it really isn't. I can't expect you to answer for indiviuals who take religion and make it into what they want it to be.

It also shouldn't be ok for an entire religion to be attacked for what a handful of people do. And if you think I haven't been attacked on this forum before for being Muslim, or on this thread for being Muslim ... then just know I'm not the only person who thinks that. I've been sent numerous PMs from people now, and in past threads, who have said that you're always attacking me for my religion and my heritage. I can't even make a comment about a celebrity without my religion being brought into the mix.


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Amoona 

"jackasses like Bush just need the finger lol." 

George Bush is the President of the United States.  When you make comments like that I consider it somewhat inflammatory. 

I have some work to do now so I'm going to give you a couple of free hours to explain why I should be concerned with not upsetting you by making harsh statements about something you hold dear when you have no such concern when it comes to anyone else.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_Im offended by this comment..........

 1: from what i can gather members on this forum is NOT Anti-Muslim...

2:That's (America) I beg to differ......... you shouldnt generalize the american ppl.  B.c all american Ppl are not like that.. Funny how u make that comment.. and at the same time you live in Cali" USA/America... No?_

 
Not all the members are anti-Muslim but being anti-Muslim is widely accepted on this forum. Nobody is ever censored for it when I am censored for making my personal views ... as I have been in the past MANY MANY times by Shimmer.

I also only live in California by force, not by choice. I'm a third generation Palestinian refugee and because my parents came here for school and had me here I am not able to get Palestinian citizenship thanks to Israel. Therefore I can not return to my country and live there, I'm only allowed temporary visits. Now I'm only waiting to finish school and I'll be on the first plane back to the Middle East ... and if you want to ask why I go to school here instead of in the Middle East ... I can't afford to pay a $30k a year tuition and being an American citizen I don't get the financial aid that I would if I was a citizen of an Arab country.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

I dont think its appropriate to compare a president to a religious leader. Bush's term is over in 08 thnk goodness, while a religious leader is admired by his ppl and is wanted there.. unlike the president who was placed there and didnt honestly win the office..

I got my comment on "New York" from flavor of love censored because it was "rude and unneseary" according to one of the Mods

I think a comment on someones religious leader is also rude n unnesesary. I commented on a person who truly is a nobody.
and here a persons beliefs are being attacked.

Not everyone stands behind the president, and not everyone cares that he got flipped off by Ricky. Just like clinton when his term is over no one will care..

Id be offended if someone compared bush to the pope!
its not necesary and its not the samething at all..
a religious leader is someone the people support, love and follow.
A political leader is in office is suppose to try to run the country in "good way" while his term is valiid then he is out..
afterwards no one gives about what happens to him..
and its not the case in a religious leader


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Trunkmonkey* 

 
_Amoona 

"jackasses like Bush just need the finger lol." 

George Bush is the President of the United States.  When you make comments like that I consider it somewhat inflammatory. 

I have some work to do now so I'm going to give you a couple of free hours to explain why I should be concerned with not upsetting you by making harsh statements about something you hold dear when you have no such concern when it comes to anyone else._

 
Um you don't need to be concerned with not upsetting me. I'm upset with the fact that it's ok to be anti-Muslim on this forum and nobody censors your remarks when in the past Shimmer has run wild with deleting my comments. You're an ignorant lil girl, I get it, not your fault you have a lot to learn.

But if Shimmer wants to take the role of a mod she should treat everyone the same. Which is something that many other people think as well.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_There a billions of Muslims in the world if you want to know why they do the things they do then you need to ask them directly. I can only imagine why people in Palestine and Iraq blow themselves up. It has nothing to do with Islam, it has to do with politics._

 
 I'm sure that it does, but their reason is always their religion. OBL's reasoning: America is the land of infidels. My brother gets called an infidel every day, apparently it's supposedly worse than being called "asshole" but whatever...

 Quote:

   If you ask why then I can only refer you to the Qur'an and let you know that in the Qur'an suicide of any kind is a sin and killing innocent people is a sin. That's like me asking you why do Christians blow up abortion clinics?! That's not very Christian of them. Or why do Jews live and support in Israel when infact the Torah forbids a Jewish state until the coming of the Messiah?! That's not very Jewish of them. They feel that it is, even if it really isn't. I can't expect you to answer for indiviuals who take religion and make it into what they want it to be.  
 
I can refer you to the same texts regarding suicide and murder in the Bible. Christians and abortion clinics, I don't know. I view them the same way, I believe, as you view extremists of your own religion. 

 Quote:

  It also shouldn't be ok for an entire religion to be attacked for what a handful of people do. And if you think I haven't been attacked on this forum before for being Muslim, or on this thread for being Muslim ... then just know I'm not the only person who thinks that. I've been sent numerous PMs from people now, and in past threads, who have said that you're always attacking me for my religion and my heritage. I can't even make a comment about a celebrity without my religion being brought into the mix.  
 
I didn't bring your religion into the mix other than to make an analogy. 
I've never attacked you for your heritage, nor for your religion. I do and will call out hypocrisy as I see it, and if that's perceived as an attack, the onus is NOT on me. Were a "Christian" member to make statements in support of abortion clinic bombings etc. you can bet your sweet ass I'd be on his/her case quick as a duck on a junebug. 
I don't attack another person, I will question, decry, query, interject, and bring forth all manner of querolous behaviour when it comes to hypocritical ideals. 
I'm not attacking you for being Muslim, and I view your statement that I am the same as I view an underqualified job applicant stating that s/he didn't get the job because s/he was ______ race.
It doesn't have anything to do with your race, or in this case, your religion. It has to do with a double standard of ideals that doesn't make sense but only seems applicable in certain point.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Um you don't need to be concerned with not upsetting me. I'm upset with the fact that it's ok to be anti-Muslim on this forum and nobody censors your remarks when in the past Shimmer has run wild with deleting my comments. You're an ignorant lil girl, I get it, not your fault you have a lot to learn.

But if Shimmer wants to take the role of a mod she should treat everyone the same. Which is something that many other people think as well._

 
You're making blind assumptions here. You have no idea what I've said to this person behind the scenes. You have no idea what PMs have or have not been  sent. It would help to remember that. 

Regarding your, and the opinions of others you're citing, by all means contact the site administration with your concerns.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

WTF are you talking about lol?! This is getting hilarious because you're starting to buy into your own crap. I made a personal statement that I didn't think it was a big deal. I thought it was kind funny because Ricky Martin flipped off the President. Just like I laugh at anyone when they flip someone off. To me it's like "wtf r you doing?! whats a finger gonna do". I'm not being a hypocrite for not thinking that purposly insulting an entire religious community is the same as some nobody celebrity flipping off Bush. If you think it is that's your personal opinion, I don't. Get over it and stop trying to convince me that it is the same. Sorry I respect my religion a lot more then I respect Bush or any other politicial figure in the world.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_You're making blind assumptions here. You have no idea what I've said to this person behind the scenes. You have no idea what PMs have or have not been  sent. It would help to remember that. 

Regarding your, and the opinions of others you're citing, by all means contact the site administration with your concerns._

 
What goes on in PMs obviously hasn't changed anything in public.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_I dont think its appropriate to compare a president to a religious leader. Bush's term is over in 08 thnk goodness, while a religious leader is admired by his ppl and is wanted there.. unlike the president who was placed there and didnt honestly win the office..

I got my comment on "New York" from flavor of love censored because it was "rude and unneseary" according to one of the Mods

I think a comment on someones religious leader is also rude n unnesesary. I commented on a person who truly is a nobody.
and here a persons beliefs are being attacked.

Not everyone stands behind the president, and not everyone cares that he got flipped off by Ricky. Just like clinton when his term is over no one will care..

Id be offended if someone compared bush to the pope!
its not necesary and its not the samething at all..
a religious leader is someone the people support, love and follow.
A political leader is in office is suppose to try to run the country in "good way" while his term is valiid then he is out..
afterwards no one gives about what happens to him..
and its not the case in a religious leader_

 
A) It's not censorship. 
B) I appreciate your point, to an extent. I'm not comparing the President to anyone other than to say  that "What? He's just an asshole who got flipped off he deserved it the idiot haha." is a hypocritical statement when I can immediately turn that around and say "God. What? So they drew Muhammed with a bomb in his turban. Ever wonder WHY they might have done that? Geez."
C) The reason why I say (B) is because it's an unfair and hypocritical action to say "OH dismiss that because he's not important but don't dismiss this because it's important to me!!"  Correct in that the President and his role may not be important to her, or someone else, but there ARE people who respect him and his position. As such, it's rude, demeaning, and disrespectful to THOSE people to say "OH big deal, stop whining."

I don't care about her religion.
I don't care about her ethnicity.
I don't care about her personal habits.

I do care, however, when a blatant double standard is being applied. Just because it's not important to her, just because it's not disrespectful to her, doesn't make it wrong for others to view it as disrespectful.


And, I'm going to add here: For anyone who doesn't like what Bush is doing, and who thinks he's doing a terrible job, and anyone could do so so so much better, there's an election coming up in a little over a year. By all means, get a platform, start a grassroots campaign and run. 
That man, as did all the Presidents before him, carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, whether we're actively at war or not. The sheer weight of the responsibility he has on his mind everyday is boggling. If you think you can do better, by all means, run.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_What goes on in PMs obviously hasn't changed anything in public._

 
What exactly do you expect? The member apologised, several posts back, when I asked her to be nice and be within the TOS. 
What more do you want? Do you want me to ask the admins to ban her? Do you want me to ask them to delete her? Ban her IP? Make her agree with you? What? She's not doing anything untoward other than not sugarcoating what she says. 
I asked her to be nice, she said she would. I linked her the FAQ and the TOS of the site, and she said thanks and said she would adhere to them, which she is. What more, exactly do you want me to do?


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

So you care when I make a double standard ... which I don't believe I did ... but when you make a double standard and allow other people to make hateful and "inflammatory" remarks it's ok?!


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_What exactly do you expect? The member apologised, several posts back, when I asked her to be nice and be within the TOS. 
What more do you want? Do you want me to ask the admins to ban her? Do you want me to ask them to delete her? Ban her IP? Make her agree with you? What? She's not doing anything untoward other than not sugarcoating what she says. 
I asked her to be nice, she said she would. I linked her the FAQ and the TOS of the site, and she said thanks and said she would adhere to them, which she is. What more, exactly do you want me to do?_

 
So you asked her and she decided she'd do it when you wanted and she continues to make the same remarks she's been making in the same manner she's been making it. what do I expect you to do?! CENSOR HER! Delete her comments. It's so easy for you to do that to me but you can't do it to her? Just because she thinks the same way you think?


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_So you asked her and she decided she'd do it when you wanted and she continues to make the same remarks she's been making in the same manner she's been making it. what do I expect you to do?! CENSOR HER! Delete her comments. It's so easy for you to do that to me but you can't do it to her? Just because she thinks the same way you think?_

 
a) This isn't a forum I'm a moderator of.
b) I'm not sure what you want deleted.


----------



## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_I dont think its appropriate to compare a president to a religious leader. Bush's term is over in 08 thnk goodness, while a religious leader is admired by his ppl and is wanted there.. unlike the president who was placed there and didnt honestly win the office..

I got my comment on "New York" from flavor of love censored because it was "rude and unneseary" according to one of the Mods

I think a comment on someones religious leader is also rude n unnesesary. I commented on a person who truly is a nobody.
and here a persons beliefs are being attacked.

Not everyone stands behind the president, and not everyone cares that he got flipped off by Ricky. Just like clinton when his term is over no one will care..

Id be offended if someone compared bush to the pope!
its not necesary and its not the samething at all..
a religious leader is someone the people support, love and follow.
A political leader is in office is suppose to try to run the country in "good way" while his term is valiid then he is out..
afterwards no one gives about what happens to him..
and its not the case in a religious leader_

 
Yup that would be me.. that made that comment to you... with good reason.. but thats a different subject. Although i agree with you to an extent........religious leaders are loved and followed, but at the sametime so are some political leaders.   Hrmmmm do i support Bush and what he does.... "no comment"  

Once again there is always a  way of having a stimulating conversation without backlashing at one another.  Everyone is not going to agree with what u are saying or what you believe in and this goes for everyone.....but there is a way to go about it.  

The thing is people  will make comments on anything and everything.. even religious leaders.... Political leaders.  you can dissagree, its all about how u word it weather ppl will get offended or not.  There is a repsectable way of disagreeing with someone.


 but saying this forum is full of Anti-Muslim... or thats just America.. is a little far fetched..no?

In all honesty i dont care what Ricky Martin did.... that is just me and how i feel.. will someone else feel different?  (sure) am i going to try to attact them? (no) am i going to say ( you guys are Ricky Martin haters..) no....... am i going to say ....... This Forum is Bush Haters.... (No) 

its all about repsect......... nothing more... nothing less

"you repsect how i feel and ill respect how you feel" 
My comments might be blunt but i dont go out my way to insult ppl in anyway.  and that is how everyone should be.  your intitled to your own personal Op's.. i said it once and ill say it again... "it all has to do with ur wording"


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

I'm sure you wouldn't see what's offensive about her comments seeing that you agree with what she's saying. That's fine. I just know better then to try to voice a simple no big deal personal opinion on this forum or else my religion will be attacked.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

your religion isn't being attacked...I'm not attacking your religion...only the double standard.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_Once again there is always a  way of having a stimulating conversation without backlashing at one another.  Everyone is not going to agree with what u are saying or what you believe in and this goes for everyone.....but there is a way to go about it.

The thing is people  will make comments on anything and everything.. even religious leaders.... Political leaders.  you can dissagree, its all about how u word it weather ppl will get offended or not.  There is a repsectable way of disagreeing with someone.

but saying this forum is full of Anti-Muslim... or thats just America.. is a little far fetched..no?

In all honesty i dont care what Ricky Martin did.... that is just me and how i feel.. will someone else feel different?  (sure) am i going to try to attact them? (no) am i going to say ( you guys are Ricky Martin haters..) no....... am i going to say ....... This Forum is Bush Haters.... (No) 

its all about repsect......... nothing more... nothing less

"you repsect how i feel and ill respect how you feel" 
My comments might be blunt but i dont go out my way to insult ppl in anyway.  and that is how everyone should be.  your intitled to your own personal Op's.. i said it once and ill say it again... "it all has to do with ur wording"_

 
That's the thing I did't backlash anyone. I made a comment that I honestly didn't think was that serious. I don't care what Ricky Martin did ... just like you said you didn't care what he did. But the moment I open my mouth and type something I get a backlash. Shimmer has to bring up something totally off topic and bring my religion into the mix. Then I have some newbie coming in and goes out of her way to insult me because I'm Muslim. Nobody says anything, people agree with her and that's fine you can agree with her. But I think it's a lil irresponsible if you're supposed to be a Mod and you're censorship crazy and you what she said go. If I made similiar statements they would have been deleted in a heart beat ... just like most of my past comments on threads were deleted by Shimmer. If she doesn't agree with your opinion she'll delete it.

I didn't say this forum is full of people who are anti-Muslim ... but there are people here who have showed they are anti-Muslim time and time again and it is something that the Mods have been ok with. And yes I did say that's just America because in this country, at this time, it's ok to be anti-Muslim. Just like at one point in time it was ok to be anti-Black, and once it was ok to be anti-Italian, and once it was ok to be anti-Irish and we can go on. I just think people should all be treated the same as far as having their comments deleted. Obviously the Mods don't, so I can't say anything on her that isn't make-up related without being attacked for my religion ... even though my religion had NOTHING to do with why I said what I said.


----------



## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I'm sure you wouldn't see what's offensive about her comments seeing that you agree with what she's saying. That's fine. I just know better then to try to voice a simple no big deal personal opinion on this forum or else my religion will be attacked._

 
Please dont say i agree with this members comment.. b.c with all due respect you dont what i agree with.


----------



## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_That's the thing I did't backlash anyone. I made a comment that I honestly didn't think was that serious. I don't care what Ricky Martin did ... just like you said you didn't care what he did. But the moment I open my mouth and type something I get a backlash. Shimmer has to bring up something totally off topic and bring my religion into the mix. Then I have some newbie coming in and goes out of her way to insult me because I'm Muslim. Nobody says anything, people agree with her and that's fine you can agree with her. But I think it's a lil irresponsible if you're supposed to be a Mod and you're censorship crazy and you what she said go. If I made similiar statements they would have been deleted in a heart beat ... just like most of my past comments on threads were deleted by Shimmer. If she doesn't agree with your opinion she'll delete it.

I didn't say this forum is full of people who are anti-Muslim ... but there are people here who have showed they are anti-Muslim time and time again and it is something that the Mods have been ok with. And yes I did say that's just America because in this country, at this time, it's ok to be anti-Muslim. Just like at one point in time it was ok to be anti-Black, and once it was ok to be anti-Italian, and once it was ok to be anti-Irish and we can go on. I just think people should all be treated the same as far as having their comments deleted. Obviously the Mods don't, so I can't say anything on her that isn't make-up related without being attacked for my religion ... even though my religion had NOTHING to do with why I said what I said._

 

Hun Jamie "can not do anything in tihs Forum" even though we are both Mods.. this is not our section... so with all repsect Jamie nor i can make any mods in here. 

And if u feel like there are some anti-muslims in this forum.. im sorry that u feel like some ppl come off that way.

And personally Im only speaking for myself...... do not think it is okay to be Anti-Muslim, and that in America at this time in this day that it is ok.  And there is no "there was a time when...." there still is anywhere you go in life you will encounter predijuce of some sorts.  I went through it... i still go through it... i just dont let it bother me.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_your religion isn't being attacked...I'm not attacking your religion...only the double standard._

 
Your not attacking my religion, you're just bringing it up when it has nothing to do with anything. You just feel that it's important that anytime I make a personal statement you bring up my religion. Then you allow other members to openly trash my religion and use rather strong stereotypes in their statements. That's a major double standard because I've been censored many times by you for making statements you felt were insulting.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_Please dont say i agree with this members comment.. b.c with all due respect you dont what i agree with._

 
That was not directed at you, it was directed at Shimmer. I responded to that right after her comment.


----------



## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_That was not directed at you, it was directed at Shimmer. I responded to that right after her comment._

 
mybad


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *hyperRealGurl* 

 
_Hun Jamie "can not do anything in tihs Forum" even though we are both Mods.. this is not our section... so with all repsect Jamie nor i can make any mods in here. 

And if u feel like there are some anti-muslims in this forum.. im sorry that u feel like some ppl come off that way.

And personally Im only speaking for myself...... do not think it is okay to be Anti-Muslim, and that in America at this time in this day that it is ok.  And there is no "there was a time when...." there still is anywhere you go in life you will encounter predijuce of some sorts.  I went through it... i still go through it... i just dont let it bother me._

 
She can't censor but she can start the thread into drifting off topic and turning it into a Muslim issue? You may not think it's ok to be anti-Muslim in America ... just as many people didn't feel it was ok to be anti-Black during the civil rights movement. But it doesn't change the fact that it is widely accepted to be anti-Muslim and anti-Arab in this country. You may not agree with that but it isn't really shunned upon in general society. I would just expect it to be stopped on a forum that is infamous for censoring me for my own personal beliefs.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Your not attacking my religion, you're just bringing it up when it has nothing to do with anything. You just feel that it's important that anytime I make a personal statement you bring up my religion. Then you allow other members to openly trash my religion and use rather strong stereotypes in their statements. That's a major double standard because I've been censored many times by you for making statements you felt were insulting._

 
You're viewing my statement as an attack.
There's nothing I can do to change that.

I can and will only reiterate it was not an attack on you or your religion.
Regarding the other posts, they've been dealt with privately, which is within the realm of responsibility for a moderator.


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

I don't understand why anyone stays in a place that they actively dislike and feel "persecuted" in. Be it a country or an online forum.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

And obviously dealing with it privately hasn't changed anything publicly because those statements are still there and were still made.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_I don't understand why anyone stays in a place that they actively dislike and feel "persecuted" in. Be it a country or an online forum._

 
I guess you didn't read what I wrote about why I'm in this country by force and not by choice. As for this forum like I said before, when people stop trying to attack me on this thread I will no longer post anything on here unless it's make-up related.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_And obviously dealing with it privately hasn't changed anything publicly because those statements are still there and were still made._

 
Again, what exactly do you want me to do? 
It's outside my realm of capability, as this thread is not in one of the forums under my responsibility.

Obviously dealing with it privately  DID work, as an apology was issued and the statements subsequently were tempered.

I'm also going to point out that the administration of the site has rules regarding thread deletion and removal, as well as post moderation. It's not just done willy nilly for the fun of it, though I can assure you that other sites will, can, and do. 
No moderator, not me, Christine, or any other, can just delete a post or a thread for no reason. Any action taken has to be documented...based on this, your accusations of me "deleting posts/threads" in a heartbeat for "no reason" are off base.

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *FAQ* 
_Use common sense. Don’t break the rules. Don’t post messages that even hint at advertising. (unless in the Shameless Promotions forum and follow the Shameless Promotion forum guidelines)

We don’t censor messages based on the opinions expressed within posts, but we will enforce TOS & Forum Guidelines outlined both here and in their respective forums.

We reserve all rights to remove, modify or move posts at our discretion and without explanation. If you have any questions about guidelines, rules, etc listed in this post please contact one of the staff members or an Administrator.

In addition to the rules posted here, members are required to read any individual forum rules which may be posted at the top of specific forums. By using this forum, you further agree to abide by Specktra’s TOS (Terms of Service).

Specktra management assumes all members have read these terms, and will not take ignorance of any rules as an excuse for not following any guidelines outlined here and in the forum specific rules. Banning or Suspension of your account is a definite consequence of not adhering to these guidelines._


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I guess you didn't read what I wrote about why I'm in this country by force and not by choice. As for this forum like I said before, when people stop trying to attack me on this thread I will no longer post anything on here unless it's make-up related._

 
Actually I did and I think its BS. There are tons of other countries you could live in and get an education without having to live in America. Many of those countries are more in line with your particular world view and less "anti-Muslim" (as you so frequently point out) than the US.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

No dealin with it privately didn't because no apology for what was said was issued. An apology to you was made nothing was done about anything that was said. And comments were made after this so-called apology. 

My "accusations" of you deleting my past comments in a heartbeat are not off base. You did so very "willy nilly" when you didn't agree with what I had to say.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_Actually I did and I think its BS. There are tons of other countries you could live in and get an education without having to live in America. Many of those countries are more in line with your particular world view and less "anti-Muslim" (as you so frequently point out) than the US._

 
Well you thinking it's BS is fine, if that's what you believe. Obiously you know nothing about what it's like to be a refugee and not being able to go back and live in your own country.


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

You don't have the first clue what I do and do not know about leaving other countries or abandoning religions. I know that this country that you so frequently bitch about offers you opportunities you couldn't possibly dream about in many, many other places. And personally, I find you to be ungrateful in your constant whining about how much America is anti-Muslim and evil.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_No dealin with it privately didn't because no apology for what was said was issued. An apology to you was made nothing was done about anything that was said. And comments were made after this so-called apology. 

My "accusations" of you deleting my past comments in a heartbeat are not off base. You did so very "willy nilly" when you didn't agree with what I had to say._

 
What exactly is supposed to be done? 
And of course comments were made, the person was taking part in the conversation. 
One post was made after the apology for crossing the line was issued. 
There's nothing inflammatory about that post, unless you're offended that you're being called out for hypocrisy. If that's the case, there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it. [shrug]


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Well you thinking it's BS is fine, if that's what you believe. Obiously you know nothing about what it's like to be a refugee and not being able to go back and live in your own country._

 
By no stretch am I saying you should leave however, there are, as it was pointed out, many other options. It's a matter of utilizing  them.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_You don't have the first clue what I do and do not know about leaving other countries or abandoning religions. I know that this country that you so frequently bitch about offers you opportunities you couldn't possibly dream about in many, many other places. And personally, I find you to be ungrateful in your constant whining about how much America is anti-Muslim and evil._

 
If you knew so much about being a Palestinian refugee then you wouldn't have made the comment you did. Obviously you don't so you think that me saying I'm forced to live here is BS. That's fine I can't expect you to know what it's like unless you're a Palestinian refugee.

I have no idea what opportunities that is offered to me in this country that I couldn't get in other places?! The only place I couldn't live in the way I live now is in my own country, and that's thanks to Israeli occupation. I plan on moving to UAE once I'm done with school and I have more opportunities there then I do here. I also never said the US was evil I said that in this country at this point in time it's ok to be openly anti-Muslim.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

And, as the people you're accusing of being anti muslim, we're saying it's still not, despite your perceptions.

Of course, your perception is your reality, but no, it's not okay to be anti-muslim.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_What exactly is supposed to be done? 
And of course comments were made, the person was taking part in the conversation. 
One post was made after the apology for crossing the line was issued. 
There's nothing inflammatory about that post, unless you're offended that you're being called out for hypocrisy. If that's the case, there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it. [shrug]_

 
Ok if you so strongly believe I'm a hyprocrite because I don't hold a politicial figure in the same respect and admoration as a religious figure then feel that way. If I don't agree with you then you just wont get over it.

I don't care what politicial leader it is, religion is more important to me, and not just my own. Do you respect the President of Iran?! Have you ever insulted him?! Did you respect Saddam Hussein?! Those are politicial leaders that many many people love and respect and admire. If you don't like then I'm not going to jump on your personal opinion. But wouldn't that be hypocriticial?! And from what I remember from previous posts you're not too found of Saddam Hussein. So are you a hypocrite for insulting him and not respecting him yet expecting me to respect Bush?! Or actually it didn't even start that way ... it started with me saying I didn't care that Ricky Martin flipped off Bush, I didn't see it as a big deal.


----------



## xbeatofangelx (Feb 28, 2007)

Wow... Off topic

Amoona - No one is attacking your religion - though there have been statements made pointing out some aspects of it which may not be representative of Islam. No one is personally attacking you - and everyone has/should have the right to express their own opinion, even if it hurts someone elses feelings. Of course you have the right to feel defensive, angry, etc., but try to see that none of these people are "muslim-haters".. And I think Ladybug was trying to say that maybe living in Canada or a European country would be a more positive experience than living in the USA. I'm sure that your parents had personal reasons for moving to the states, as did mine.

Trunkmonkey - You were kind of asking for it =p

Shimmer, Hyper - props for professionally handling the situation, no need to fly off the handle right?


And... back to topic!

I think he flipped off the pres. so that people would do what we are doing precisely at this minute - thinking about him!

One word - publicity


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Amoona* 
_Ok if you so strongly believe I'm a hyprocrite because I don't hold a politicial figure in the same respect and admoration as a religious figure then feel that way. If I don't agree with you then you just wont get over it.

I don't care what politicial leader it is, religion is more important to me, and not just my own. Do you respect the President of Iran?! Have you ever insulted him?! Did you respect Saddam Hussein?! Those are politicial leaders that many many people love and respect and admire. If you don't like then I'm not going to jump on your personal opinion. But wouldn't that be hypocriticial?! And from what I remember from previous posts you're not too found of Saddam Hussein. So are you a hypocrite for insulting him and not respecting him yet expecting me to respect Bush?! Or actually it didn't even start that way ... it started with me saying I didn't care that Ricky Martin flipped off Bush, I didn't see it as a big deal._

 

Again, I say, respect the rank not  the man.
I don't have to respect Hussein, nor Bush, nor Fox, Hamas, nor anyone else. It's their position I have to respect. 
Disagree with me? Fine. Do so.
But please, do it eloquently.

Additionally, when it was pointed out that the cartoons weren't that big a deal, you were offended, and felt justified. Why is it okay for you to be offended and feel justified in that offense but not okay for someone else to be equally offended at the President of the United States of America being flipped off by a half baked over sexed closeted fading popstar?


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I have no idea what opportunities that is offered to me in this country that I couldn't get in other places?! The only place I couldn't live in the way I live now is in my own country, and that's thanks to Israeli occupation._

 
You have got to be kidding, right? You honestly think that you could live your life, the way that you do now, as a Muslim woman and be safe from harm in a majority of Muslim countries around the globe?? You must be seriously deluded if you think you would enjoy the rights of being treated equally instead of as a second class citizen in most Muslim countries. And trust me, I know this first hand. Every single day of my life I give thanks that my father had the foresight to leave Pakistan so that his children wouldn't have to grow up oppressed simply because they weren't born with a Y chromosome. Sure, there are people in this country that are anti-Muslim, but I don't see any reports of Muslim women in this country being shot dead for not covering their heads, raped for revenge, attacked with acid, or killed for "honor" by fellow Americans.


----------



## Hawkeye (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

  amoona said this:She already handled the situation?! Then please explain why it's ok for people to openly and freely make anti-Muslim statements?! Last time I checked this thread was about Ricky Martin and it was in the Entertainment section!!! If I were to make those type of statements and they were anti-Jewish or anti-Christian I would have my comments deleted.  
 
Sweetie- why is it OK for YOU to make ANTI AMERICAN statements? You get worked up when anyone makes an anti muslim statement why should we accept it when you make an anti american statement? 

And About being censored honey even I get censored by the mods. It's not like they are after you and only you. You have it in your head that everyone is out to get you because your Muslim when no that's not the case. But we are trying to get you to see OUR point of view that many of us have bent over BACKWARDS to see YOUR point of view. 

That's what baffles me. You are obviously a very nice, intelligent person but you seem to be very narrow minded and almost refuse to allow others to express their views.

We're not anti muslim, but we do wonder sometimes. 

At some point you are going to have to realize that it's not all about you. We're not personally attacking you or your religion we are questioning it. But that's the exact same thing you do to us with OUR country.


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_If you knew so much about being a Palestinian refugee then you wouldn't have made the comment you did. Obviously you don't so you think that me saying I'm forced to live here is BS. That's fine I can't expect you to know what it's like unless you're a Palestinian refugee.

I have no idea what opportunities that is offered to me in this country that I couldn't get in other places?! The only place I couldn't live in the way I live now is in my own country, and that's thanks to Israeli occupation. I plan on moving to UAE once I'm done with school and I have more opportunities there then I do here. I also never said the US was evil I said that in this country at this point in time it's ok to be openly anti-Muslim._

 

Well let's see. There's Canada, Mexico, Several small countries in South America, Switzerland, France, there's a veritable plethora of places you could move to. But I'm just guessing, based on how you post here, people aren't going to treat you any better there than they do here. You bring a lot of heat down on yourself with your attitude and the fact that you want things to be one way for you and another with the rest of the world.

Now on to the point.... yes I have been contacted by the mods and yes I did say 'sorry'. The fact that I'm not in the least bit sorry I offended you doesn't mean I didn't SAY 'sorry'. 

Had the mods not said anything I would have very likely by now had you in a fetal position sucking your thumb by the way I would have cheerfully abused you for your hypocrisy, abysmal spelling, and your divorce from reality in regards to who said what and when. 

But I'm being good and holding myself back because really I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone finding you in a bathtub with both wrists open and a half drank bottle of bleach on the floor. It will probably happen but I don't personally want to be responsible for it. 

So I will leave you with this my dear. You've made 2 assumptions about me that are 100% inaccurate. I won't tell you which two they are I'll just let you mull them a little bit.

Have a lovely day and by the way airline tickets are really cheap now. Might want to consider beating the summer rush.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

xbeatofangelx - People are openly making "inflammatory" comments directed towards my religion when it wasn't even an issue in this topic. People are going out of their way to single me out and direct this topic in a manner which it was not going. And all this because I made a personal statement which had nothing to do with my religion. They may not be Muslim-Haters but they seem to be ok with openly trashing a religion they seem to know nothing about and they seem to be ok (the Mods) with allowing others to do so as well. My parents only came here because my mother got a scholarship here and the only reason she's still here is because she's waiting for my brother to turn 18 and then she's leaving. Like I said before, I go to college here because it's all I can afford. I was accepted into different univerisities in Lebanon, Egypt, and Dubai ... I was also accepted into a university in Palestine but can't go because I'm a Palestinian with an American citizenship ... I was unable to get any financial assistance because I'm not a citizen of an Arab country. That's why I'm stuck here. Europe is much more expensive and my family would never let me go to Canada because we have no family there. Not to mention that would also be very expensive.


----------



## Hawkeye (Feb 28, 2007)

I've seen some of those comments and I agree they were unnecessary. But at some point you are going to have to realize that people don't like having something they actually agree with trashed.

Much like this with your religion. You hate it. How do you think we feel about OUR country. Naturally we're going to take up for it. Sure we may hate the politics but its OUR country. It's one of those things that- it's ok if we say it among ourselves that we aren't happy with something - like a family- but the moment someone else says something about it you'll automatically take up for it. 

And I know you must be miserable here in the U.S. but maybe one day you will be able to move out and be happier.

P.S. edited to add- the mods aren't OK with trashing your religion. You think they are- but I know for a fact they aren't. Sometimes they take care of things privately rather on the forum. Don't think that this is a whole anti muslim thing when in fact- no it isn't (some comments were- granted and I'm not happy with those myself) but you have to be able to look at the way we see things to understand what we are trying to say. And also- don't forget that you aren't always the only one edited. I get edited all the time, half the time my posts are just removed with no explanation or anything. They just go poof and gone. 
At least many of your posts get to stay on the board


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_Sweetie- why is it OK for YOU to make ANTI AMERICAN statements? You get worked up when anyone makes an anti muslim statement why should we accept it when you make an anti american statement? 

And About being censored honey even I get censored by the mods. It's not like they are after you and only you. You have it in your head that everyone is out to get you because your Muslim when no that's not the case. But we are trying to get you to see OUR point of view that many of us have bent over BACKWARDS to see YOUR point of view. 

That's what baffles me. You are obviously a very nice, intelligent person but you seem to be very narrow minded and almost refuse to allow others to express their views.

We're not anti muslim, but we do wonder sometimes. 

At some point you are going to have to realize that it's not all about you. We're not personally attacking you or your religion we are questioning it. But that's the exact same thing you do to us with OUR country._

 
I never said I don’t see other people’s views. I was just simply saying that in my personal view it’s not that big of a deal. Then my religion gets dragged into it and I said that no I don’t think a religious figure is the same as a political one. I respect my religion a lot more then I respect politics. Nobody seems to be ok with that, even though they say they are, because once I said it my religion had to be brought into it.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I never said I don’t see other people’s views. I was just simply saying that in my personal view it’s not that big of a deal. Then my religion gets dragged into it and I said that no I don’t think a religious figure is the same as a political one. I respect my religion a lot more then I respect politics. Nobody seems to be ok with that, even though they say they are, because once I said it my religion had to be brought into it._

 
Again, your religion as a whole wasn't brought up. Your statements and the light which they were made in was my point.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Trunkmonkey* 

 
_Well let's see. There's Canada, Mexico, Several small countries in South America, Switzerland, France, there's a veritable plethora of places you could move to. But I'm just guessing, based on how you post here, people aren't going to treat you any better there than they do here. You bring a lot of heat down on yourself with your attitude and the fact that you want things to be one way for you and another with the rest of the world.

Now on to the point.... yes I have been contacted by the mods and yes I did say 'sorry'. The fact that I'm not in the least bit sorry I offended you doesn't mean I didn't SAY 'sorry'. 

Had the mods not said anything I would have very likely by now had you in a fetal position sucking your thumb by the way I would have cheerfully abused you for your hypocrisy, abysmal spelling, and your divorce from reality in regards to who said what and when. 

But I'm being good and holding myself back because really I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone finding you in a bathtub with both wrists open and a half drank bottle of bleach on the floor. It will probably happen but I don't personally want to be responsible for it. 

So I will leave you with this my dear. You've made 2 assumptions about me that are 100% inaccurate. I won't tell you which two they are I'll just let you mull them a little bit.

Have a lovely day and by the way airline tickets are really cheap now. Might want to consider beating the summer rush. 




_

 
YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME RIGHT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh please don't destroy me and make me depressed over an internet conversation I'm having with an ignorant child. haha seriously you give yourself too much credit.

I'll be happy to move anywhere in Europe if you want to pay for it. And FYI people like you are the reason why I hate living in this country.


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME RIGHT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh please don't distroy me and make me depressed over an internet conversation I'm having with an ignorant child. 

I'll be happy to move anywhere in Europe if you want to pay for it. And FYI people like you are the reason why I hate living in this country._

 
Well apparantly it bothers you more than you're letting on BECAUSE YOU'RE STILL TYPING IN HERE.  Poor soul.  The tension is obviously getting to be more than you can bear.


----------



## Hawkeye (Feb 28, 2007)

Trunkmonkey, that is enough. 

You've made your opinion quite clear.  Right now you are doing nothing more than almost harassing/trolling amoona right now.

Amoona happens to be a respected member of our community and even though she doesn't agree with a lot of us right now that gives nobody the right to exacerbate the problem.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Trunkmonkey* 

 
_Well apparantly it bothers you more than you're letting on BECAUSE YOU'RE STILL TYPING IN HERE.  Poor soul.  The tension is obviously getting to be more than you can bear._

 
Oh it really is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I should go blow myself up since that's what Muslims do right?


----------



## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_ And I'm glad he brought it to people's attention that sometimes jackasses like Bush just need the finger lol._

 
THIS was the first offensive remark made.

Others followed.. why? because generally when you say something offensive.. Offensive things are said in return. 

Now that comment might not have meant anything to you. but to some people, It definitely does OFFEND .. I don't care if Bush's popularity ratings are down. that doesn't mean that everyone in the U.S has to hate him. Some people still respect (any) leader of this beautiful Free country!

The street goes both ways.


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_Trunkmonkey, that is enough. 

You've made your opinion quite clear. Right now you are doing nothing more than almost harassing/trolling amoona right now._

 

you're right... I rescind the statement


----------



## Hawkeye (Feb 28, 2007)

Amoona, 
that's enough out of you as well. I know your feelings are hurt but you don't have to have the final say. Just ignore it and lets try to get this thread back on track OK?


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_Amoona, 
lets try to get this thread back on track OK?_

 
You know what I could never figure out about this story? If Ricky Martin hates George Bush so much (which is certainly his perogative), why sing the song at all? That makes me think he sings the song to give himself a forum to display his dislike of Bush. And honestly, I don't have much of an opinion of whether it is right or wrong, but it just seems that he's doing it deliberately, you know?


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MxAxC-_ATTACK* 

 
_THIS was the first offensive remark made.

Others followed.. why? because generally when you say something offensive.. Offensive things are said in return. 

Now that comment might not have meant anything to you. but to some people, It definitely does OFFEND .. I don't care if Bush's popularity ratings are down. that doesn't mean that everyone in the U.S has to hate him. Some people still respect (any) leader of this beautiful Free country!

The street goes both ways._

 
Yes understood but I didn't continue on to bash him like I could have. I didn't think it was a big deal when I typed it considering how many people hate him. So I didn't continue on to bash him with the millions of things I could have. Instead I had to defend my religion because people felt it was ok to bring that up in a negative light since I don't agree with them and I didn't think it was a big deal. They don't need to think that saying offensive comment towards Islam is actually offensive but if they want to continue it then why should they expect me to be sorry that my comment offended anyone when that wasn't the intent of my comment?


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

WOW how did it get from ricky martin to this?

I only thought that "trunkmunkey" was the one being rude with her comments. and to one of the mods that censored me in the new york forum I know its off topic, but in that post I had explained that it was my view n no one should be offended by it..
spcieally since its just a show and its not like NY is out to save the world or anything..

but yeah.

amoona, 
dont take everything personally. Not everyone is anti-muslim or anything, and its true, this land really does give us many oporutunaties.. PLENTY!

Do you really think that there would be thousands and thousands of people risking their lifes everyday trying to cross that border if really there were no oportunities?
I know about 20-30 ppl who would give anything to be in your place!
to be taken in even as a refugee to get away from the situation their in..
I see that in on top of your avatar it says "mac artist"
do you think you would have the same job in your country?

u have the job that "lots of girls would kill for"

I know your feeling attacked but truly your not.
you have crossed the line from putting the president down, ( who i dont personallly like or agree with) to putting the country as a whole down.

and just cus I dont agree with bush doesnt mean I dont love my country.. i have dual citizenship and i love mexico as much as I love USA and while u can put the presidents down.. dont put the country down. 
because just how u feel offended that they put your beliefs down, your doing the same thing to us, just a bit differently


----------



## Hawkeye (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

  WOW how did it get from ricky martin to this?  
 
I'm not really sure anyone really knows. I've read through this- when I left there was only 2 pages then poof- it exploded.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_And FYI people like you are the reason why I hate living in this country._

 
This is the type of statement that Hawkeye is referring to hon. You live here, take advantage of numerous opportunities afforded you and you make statements like this.
It's the same as being a guest in my  home and having sex with my husband, or being a guest in my father's home and slapping my mother. Disrespectful and probably not going to be met well :/


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Yes understood but I didn't continue on to bash him like I could have. I didn't think it was a big deal when I typed it considering how many people hate him. So I didn't continue on to bash him with the millions of things I could have. Instead I had to defend my religion because people felt it was ok to bring that up in a negative light since I don't agree with them and I didn't think it was a big deal. They don't need to think that saying offensive comment towards Islam is actually offensive but if they want to continue it then why should they expect me to be sorry that my comment offended anyone when that wasn't the intent of my comment?_

 
Your logic is what I'm not understanding hon. 
Because people "hate" him, it's ok? 
Really?


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_amoona, 
dont take everything personally. Not everyone is anti-muslim or anything, and its true, this land really does give us many oporutunaties.. PLENTY!

Do you really think that there would be thousands and thousands of people risking their lifes everyday trying to cross that border if really there were no oportunities?
I know about 20-30 ppl who would give anything to be in your place!
to be taken in even as a refugee to get away from the situation their in..
I see that in on top of your avatar it says "mac artist"
do you think you would have the same job in your country?

u have the job that "lots of girls would kill for"

I know your feeling attacked but truly your not.
you have crossed the line from putting the president down, ( who i dont personallly like or agree with) to putting the country as a whole down.

and just cus I dont agree with bush doesnt mean I dont love my country.. i have dual citizenship and i love mexico as much as I love USA and while u can put the presidents down.. dont put the country down. 
because just how u feel offended that they put your beliefs down, your doing the same thing to us, just a bit differently_

 
I only take it personally because this isn't the first time something like this has happened. It's happened multiple times in the past on this forum. I also didn't say this coutnry doesn't give many opportunities ... but for me I can get these same opportunities elsewhere. It maybe right for some but it's not right for me. And yes I could work for MAC in the Middle East. They have multiple locations and hopefully when I graduate and move to Dubai I'll be there running the entire region.

I only put down the fact that it's ok to be anti-Muslim in this country. Then people started jumping on me wanting me to leave the country lol. I have no problem leaving, I plan on it because I don't like living here. I just have to wait until I'm done with school! I'm sure this country is fine for many but it's not for me, I don't like the way my people and my religion is looked at in this country. I don't like the fact that my tax dollars go to support the killing and occupation of my country. I could go on and on ... and I know I don't like living here, I don't plan on being here for the rest of my life.


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_I'm not really sure anyone really knows. I've read through this- when I left there was only 2 pages then poof- it exploded._

 

I blame me.  I tend to rub people the wrong way a lot.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_This is the type of statement that Hawkeye is referring to hon. You live here, take advantage of numerous opportunities afforded you and you make statements like this.
It's the same as being a guest in my  home and having sex with my husband, or being a guest in my father's home and slapping my mother. Disrespectful and probably not going to be met well :/_

 
Um last time I checked I didn't start an attack on her, she started one with me. She called me out and then went on to say things about how my religion recruits people to become bombs. All offensive stereotypes. Then she goes on thinking that she's making me shake in my boots because she thinks she has power over me. 

When you were in Iraq and you had people saying horrible things to you everyday and hating you and not wanting you to be there and telling you to leave the country didn't it make you hate being there?! Why do you think I hate being in this country?!

I didn't say I hate this country and everyone in it and I want horrible things to happen to this country. I just hate living here, it's not for me. Being a Muslim and an Arab who is very proud of those two identities, this is not the place for me to be. Like I said to her before, if anyone wants me to leave America before I'm done with school just pay my flight, housing, and tuition overseas and I'm out of here.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_This is the type of statement that Hawkeye is referring to hon. You live here, take advantage of numerous opportunities afforded you and you make statements like this.
It's the same as being a guest in my  home and having sex with my husband, or being a guest in my father's home and slapping my mother. Disrespectful and probably not going to be met well :/_

 
She lives here because she's an American Citizen, who was born here.

She's not a guest.  She's also not a refugee.  This also means she has the right to criticize the Govt, political figures, political stances, etc.  As well as take advantage of all the benefits of being a citizen of the United States of America.

Thats one thing that is great about our country.  You have the right to criticize the country, it's leaders, etc.  Without fear of reprisal by the government because of your opinion.

She may not be patriotic, but as an American, she doesn't have to be.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Your logic is what I'm not understanding hon. 
Because people "hate" him, it's ok? 
Really?_

 
WOW ok so seriously I said I didn't think it was a big deal when I said it. I've said that a million times already. I still don't think it's a big deal! You always think that I'm trying to get you to view the same beliefs I view but you're trying to do that to me. You want me to think it is a big deal to flip off Bush. I don't think it is, which is why I said what I said.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Raerae - I actually am a refugee. I may not have been seeking asylum in this country because I was born here but under what has been promised to Palestinians by the UN I am considered a refugee. A Palestinian who can not return to their home because of Israeli occupation is considered a Palestinian refugee. My grandparent's village was burnt to the groun in 1948 and no longer exists and we have been promised the right of return by the UN even though it hasn't been given. My parents both lived in Palestinian refugee camps, where my family still resides.

So no I'm not considered a refugee who came here looking for asylum but I am considered a Palestinian refugee by the United Nations.


----------



## Viva_la_MAC_Girl (Feb 28, 2007)

Can I just say... that Ricky Martin brings out the "best" in people...LOL.... ( sorry I had to )


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Viva_la_MAC_Girl* 

 
_Can I just say... that Ricky Martin brings out the "best" in people...LOL.... ( sorry I had to )_

 
*spits icewater out nose


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_She lives here because she's an American Citizen, who was born here.

She's not a guest.  She's also not a refugee.  This also means she has the right to criticize the Govt, political figures, political stances, etc.  As well as take advantage of all the benefits of being a citizen of the United States of America.

Thats one thing that is great about our country.  You have the right to criticize the country, it's leaders, etc.  Without fear of reprisal by the government because of your opinion.

She may not be patriotic, but as an American, she doesn't have to be._

 
In theory, I completely agree with you. But what about when you factor in the idea of someone who doesn't consider themselves an American despite being born here? Does that change the tone or intent of the criticism?


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_She lives here because she's an American Citizen, who was born here.

She's not a guest.  She's also not a refugee.  This also means she has the right to criticize the Govt, political figures, political stances, etc.  As well as take advantage of all the benefits of being a citizen of the United States of America.

Thats one thing that is great about our country.  You have the right to criticize the country, it's leaders, etc.  Without fear of reprisal by the government because of your opinion.

She may not be patriotic, but as an American, she doesn't have to be._

 
Amoona says she's a refugee, did I misunderstand something?


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Raerae - I actually am a refugee. I may not have been seeking asylum in this country because I was born here but under what has been promised to Palestinians by the UN I am considered a refugee. A Palestinian who can not return to their home because of Israeli occupation is considered a Palestinian refugee. My grandparent's village was burnt to the groun in 1948 and no longer exists and we have been promised the right of return by the UN even though it hasn't been given. My parents both lived in Palestinian refugee camps, where my family still resides.

So no I'm not considered a refugee who came here looking for asylum but I am considered a Palestinian refugee by the United Nations._

 
How are you a Palestinian.  You were not born in Palestine.  You've never had Palestinian Citizenship.  You might choose to identify as a, "Palestinian American" but other than a personal belief, all your legal documentation shows that your an American.  Even Palestine doesn't allow you to reside in Palestine other than on a temporary basis, because your not a citizen of Palestine.

Your Parents are refugees, you, are an American.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Amoona says she's a refugee, did I misunderstand something?_

 
Yes.  You can search up a few posts, she explains she was born in the United States.


----------



## Trunkmonkey (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_It's the same as being a guest in my home and having sex with my husband,_

 

what if I asked really nice and gave you sad kitty eyes?


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I also only live in California by force, not by choice. I'm a third generation Palestinian refugee and because my parents came here for school and had me here I am not able to get Palestinian citizenship thanks to Israel. Therefore I can not return to my country and live there, I'm only allowed temporary visits. Now I'm only waiting to finish school and I'll be on the first plane back to the Middle East ... and if you want to ask why I go to school here instead of in the Middle East ... I can't afford to pay a $30k a year tuition and being an American citizen I don't get the financial aid that I would if I was a citizen of an Arab country._

 
Basically her parents came to the USA and had a baby, just like thousands of other people around the world trying to give their families a better opportunity.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_How are you a Palestinian.  You were not born in Palestine.  You've never had Palestinian Citizenship.  You might choose to identify as a, "Palestinian American" but other than a personal belief, all your legal documentation shows that your an American.  Even Palestine doesn't allow you to reside in Palestine other than on a temporary basis, because your not a citizen of Palestine.

Your Parents are refugees, you, are an American._

 
Actually it's not Palestinians who don't allow me to live in Palestine, it's Israel. I'm not allowed me get a Palestinian citizenship because Israel wont allow me to get a citizenship. 

I am Palestinian because that's my heritage. With your thinking then everyone born in this country is only American and that's it. I'm only American by citizenship.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Basically her parents came to the USA and had a baby, just like thousands of other people around the world trying to give their families a better opportunity._

 
Actually that's not what happened, they weren't tryin to have me here. They were trying to go back home to have me but I came out too earlier. They wanted to move back as soon as my mom finished school. My dad already moved back and my mom is only waiting for my brother to turn 18. They hate that they couldn't raise us back home.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

I dont get that stuff..
Im born an American, but my parents are mexicans. I have dual citizenship which at first was illegal in the US to have a mexican citizenship, u had one or the other..
my history teacher ALWAYS told me that and it really bugged me..

I always told him "Im mexican and proud"
and he would ask me. "where were u born"
"in america."   he would say "there for ur an american"

like they said in selena the movie 
"ur never mexican enough for the mexicans,
and ur never american enough for the americans"
its hard to have dual..

but she has a point Amoona
just for the fact that u dont like 
american doesnt mean ur arent one..

I wasnt born in mexico so i guess im not a mexican
my heritage is.. but not my nationality
wether I like it or not..


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Yes.  You can search up a few posts, she explains she was born in the United States._

 
ahhhhh.
Thank you.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

I said I'm American by citizenship ... I'm Palestinian my by heritage. When I go back home I'm look as Arab. If some people don't see it that way then they can apply that to their lives. I don't apply that to myself or really anyone. If you're parents are Mexican you're Mexican and you should be proud of that. Yes you're also American but that doesn't delete your Mexican heritage or the fact that you are Mexican.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Actually that's not what happened, they weren't tryin to have me here. They were trying to go back home to have me but I came out too earlier. They wanted to move back as soon as my mom finished school. My dad already moved back and my mom is only waiting for my brother to turn 18. They hate that they couldn't raise us back home._

 
Venture forth into the world. You haven't any c hildren, correct? It's just you? 
Venture forth. The grass is always greener, and, if you DO perchance find somewhere you like better, then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that's fantastic. Go with it.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I am Palestinian because that's my heritage. With your thinking then everyone born in this country is only American and that's it. I'm only American by citizenship._

 
Actually, thats a HUGE personal pet-peeve of mine.

I can't stand it when people hyphenate their nationality.  I'm X-American, I'm Y-American, I'm Z-American.  No your not.  Your an American.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Actually, thats a HUGE personal pet-peeve of mine.

I can't stand it when people hyphenate their nationality.  I'm X-American, I'm Y-American, I'm Z-American.  No your not.  Your an American._

 
Well then you can label yourself as such, I label myself as Palestinian and Arab and am very proud of that. That is not something I would ever deny.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Well then you can label yourself as such, I label myself as Palestinian and Arab and am very proud of that. That is not something I would ever deny._

 
Not s aying you should, but as has been pointed out, you're not technically a refugee. Sure, if you push it on UN paperwork (and why not, I'm sure that grants you several amenities you wouldn't get normally...) you are, but you're an American, born and bred.  You have Palestinian heritage, to be sure, but you're a Californian. 
As an American, there's *nothing* to preclude you from going elsewhere and seeking your fortunes, except the inhibitions and prohibitions you put on yourself.
You're grown. You can move to Canada if you want.
You can move to Mexico, or France, or Spain, or anywhere else. Mom and Dad won't like it? Ok. So? You're grown.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Yeah I know it doesnt deleted it.. 
its just so hard not to offend either one..
specially w the whole immigration issue.

UGH

I use to support so much that ppl came here and did jobs others wouldnt do.. yeah like pick strawberrys as everyone likes to stereotype.. but their labor makes our fruits and other stuff cheaper. If we had ppl pickin strawberrys for 6.75 an hour n benefits.. that would make it like at least 6bucks a pound..
BUT 
all of that is over shadowed by all the gang violence in LA an every where else.
last year my senior year 3 of my classmates were murdered.
by gangsters.. who were all hispanic..
my school and the neighborhood i use to live in is now the ghetto..
rent went down.. police visits went up.. its bad

the point is.. its hard to be 2 different type of nationality

because i know ur a proud palestenian as i can see..
u should also be proud to be an american.
because if not for america,
ur parents might not be alive today 
specially how u said that theyr land got burnt to the ground
its obvious that ur country didnt have the resources enough
to keep its ppl safe and its understandable

but also dont bite the hand of the country who has kept u and ur family safe.

I know that if not for this country wed be somewhere in mexico workin super hard jobs for 50 pesos a day..
which is 5 bucks a day..

wen i visit acapulco and i tell my cousins that minimum here in cali
is 6.75 ( 67 pesos ) and hour.. their JAWS dropped!
the only way to make good and easy money is the dishonest way
which is why 1 of my uncles is dead

its good to keep ur heritage in ur heart..
but dont be ungrateful to the country who has given u so much


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Not s aying you should, but as has been pointed out, you're not technically a refugee. Sure, if you push it on UN paperwork (and why not, I'm sure that grants you several amenities you wouldn't get normally...) you are, but you're an American, born and bred.  You have Palestinian heritage, to be sure, but you're a Californian. 
As an American, there's *nothing* to preclude you from going elsewhere and seeking your fortunes, except the inhibitions and prohibitions you put on yourself.
You're grown. You can move to Canada if you want.
You can move to Mexico, or France, or Spain, or anywhere else. Mom and Dad won't like it? Ok. So? You're grown._

 
Actually technically I am a refugee stated by numerous UN Resolutions. And I don't have any amenities as a Palestinian refugee, we were promised our land back and have yet to recieve it so if you want to count that as an amenity that's the only one we got. 

Like I said, I understand many of you want me out of this country as you keep telling me I can leave but are you going to pay for it?! I'm leaving after college, if you guys can't wait until then then fork up the cash to send me out of here.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_If you're parents are Mexican you're Mexican and you should be proud of that. Yes you're also American but that doesn't delete your Mexican heritage or the fact that you are Mexican._

 
Riiiiiight.  Guess that makes me Polish too then.  Hardly.

Yes I have relatives somewhere in Poland (that I've never met, nor care to meet).  Yes I have a traditional Polish last name.  Yes I know how to cook traditional Polish cuisine, and have celebrated Chatholic religious holidays with a Polish twist.  Am I Polish?  No.

I'm American.

I have no need to work at maintaining a heritage I know little about, when I have an American heritage I am proud of.  There comes a point where you stop being a X-American, and just become an American.  I'm not ashamed of my heritage, it just doesn't have much value in my current place in life, or my future.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

No. We _don't_ *want* you out of the country. What *I* would like to see is the ungrateful, self entitled, victim attitude left behind.
You've never done with out. You've lived in the USofA, the world's foremost superpower, ALL OF YOUR LIFE. You are a citizen of the United States of America by birth, and while your parents are refugees, you yourself are for lack of a better phrase riding on the coattails of their refugee status. I'm sorry, I realize that's pretty harsh to say, but good grief.
We don't owe you anything. 
We aren't holding you back.
We aren't stopping you.
You've stated you want to leave, honey the door is open. Peace out. I guarantee you there are many other people who've started out with far less than you've got under inarguably less favorable circumstances. 
You think we want you to leave?
No. 
We want you to stop pulling the "OMG HE's PICKING ON ME BECAUSE I'M MUSLIM" card.
We want you to stop suckling the teat of opportunity provided to you by American society while at the same time biting and screaming about how badly you hate it.

You think you hate living here?
The grass is greener hon.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_because i know ur a proud palestenian as i can see..
u should also be proud to be an american.
because if not for america,
ur parents might not be alive today 
specially how u said that theyr land got burnt to the ground
its obvious that ur country didnt have the resources enough
to keep its ppl safe and its understandable

but also dont bite the hand of the country who has kept u and ur family safe._

 
Um this country hasn't kept my parents alive or anything. I'm not ungreatful but I also don't over do it with giving credit when it doesn't need to be given. My parent's village was burnt in 1948 by Israel. This country supports Israel and my tax dollars goes to helping Israel. That's an entire different issue that doesn't need to be dealt with right now.

My father already left here and he's safe. They can't touch you when you live in the camps because it's under UN watch ... although Israel does come in from time to time they usually get you when you're outside of the camps.

I'm not biting the hand that kept my family safe. I'm not going to praise this country and wear an American flag and talk about how great it is considering all the things this government has done to my country and to other Arab countries. I don't HAVE to be proud to be an American citizen. The only reason I have this citizenship is because I came out a few weeks early! The only part of this country I like is San Francisco because people here don't jump on you for being Muslim or for hating Bush or for saying you're Palestinian and not American.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Um this country hasn't kept my parents alive or anything. I'm not ungreatful but I also don't over do it with giving credit when it doesn't need to be given. My parent's village was burnt in 1948 by Israel. This country supports Israel and my tax dollars goes to helping Israel. That's an entire different issue that doesn't need to be dealt with right now.

My father already left here and he's safe. They can't touch you when you live in the camps because it's under UN watch ... although Israel does come in from time to time they usually get you when you're outside of the camps.

I'm not biting the hand that kept my family safe. I'm not going to praise this country and wear an American flag and talk about how great it is considering all the things this government has done to my country and to other Arab countries. I don't HAVE to be proud to be an American citizen. The only reason I have this citizenship is because I came out a few weeks early! The only part of this country I like is San Francisco because people here don't jump on you for being Muslim or for hating Bush or for saying you're Palestinian and not American._

 
And, had your parents gone elsewhere, what then?


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Actually technically I am a refugee stated by numerous UN Resolutions. And I don't have any amenities as a Palestinian refugee, we were promised our land back and have yet to recieve it so if you want to count that as an amenity that's the only one we got. 

Like I said, I understand many of you want me out of this country as you keep telling me I can leave but are you going to pay for it?! I'm leaving after college, if you guys can't wait until then then fork up the cash to send me out of here._

 
So whats stoping you from moving back to a different part of Palestine.  If your parents truly do have Palestinia Citizenship, i dont see how thats a problem.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_No. We don't *want* you out of the country. What *I* would like to see is the ungrateful, self entitled, victim attitude left behind.
You've never done with out. You've lived in the USofA, the world's foremost superpower, ALL OF YOUR LIFE. You are a citizen of the United States of America by birth, and while your parents are refugees, you yourself are for lack of a better phrase riding on the coattails of their refugee status. I'm sorry, I realize that's pretty harsh to say, but good grief.
We don't owe you anything. 
We aren't holding you back.
We aren't stopping you.
You've stated you want to leave, honey the door is open. Peace out. I guarantee you there are many other people who've started out with far less than you've got under inarguably less favorable circumstances. 
You think we want you to leave?
No. 
We want you to stop pulling the "OMG HE's PICKING ON ME BECAUSE I'M MUSLIM" card.
We want you to stop suckling the teat of opportunity provided to you by American society while at the same time biting and screaming about how badly you hate it.

You think you hate living here?
The grass is greener hon._

 
Actually I haven't lived here all my life I grew up in Kuwait but we were kicked out as most Palestinians were when the war with Saddam was over. And I don't know how much clearer it has to be made to you, UNDER THE UNITED NATIONS I'M CONSIDERED A REFUGEE!!! I'm not riding any coat tail. Do you think it's glamourious to be a refugee? It's what I am classified as under the United Nations Resolution. It is what every Palestinian is classified, whether they're living in Palestine or not. It is what promises the right of return to our land that Israel is denying.

I never said this country owes me anything and I don't know how much clearer to make it to you. I'm planning on leaving this country as soon as I'm done with school. You're so obsessed with me leaving you might as well pay for the tuition for me to just finish school back home.

I'll stop pulling out that card when people stop targetting me for being Muslim. And yes for me the grass is greener on the other side, I've been to the other side and I love it. I don't understand why you guys get so mad that I don't like living here. You think I'm the only one? Yes there are plenty of people coming here but there are also plenty of people who leave, including born and bred Americans. It's just not for everyone, get over it.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Shimmer - if my parents went elsewhere then idk?! it didn't happen.

Raerae - I would consider you Polish but if you don't want to represent that heritage then that's fine. If you want to be see as an American and only that then fine. What is stopping me from returning to Palestine is that I don't have a Palestinian identity card/citizenship. Israel will not allow me to live there without it.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Actually I haven't lived here all my life I grew up in Kuwait but we were kicked out as most Palestinians were when the war with Saddam was over. And I don't know how much clearer it has to be made to you, UNDER THE UNITED NATIONS I'M CONSIDERED A REFUGEE!!! I'm not riding any coat tail. Do you think it's glamourious to be a refugee? It's what I am classified as under the United Nations Resolution. It is what every Palestinian is classified, whether they're living in Palestine or not. It is what promises the right of return to our land that Israel is denying.

I never said this country owes me anything and I don't know how much clearer to make it to you. I'm planning on leaving this country as soon as I'm done with school. You're so obsessed with me leaving you might as well pay for the tuition for me to just finish school back home.

I'll stop pulling out that card when people stop targetting me for being Muslim. And yes for me the grass is greener on the other side, I've been to the other side and I love it. I don't understand why you guys get so mad that I don't like living here. You think I'm the only one? Yes there are plenty of people coming here but there are also plenty of people who leave, including born and bred Americans. It's just not for everyone, get over it._

 
Like I said, then go. Finish your education elsewhere. There's _nothing_ stopping you if you hate it so badly.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Shimmer - if my parents went elsewhere then idk?! it didn't happen._

 
You're right, they didn't, because they recognized the opportunity available here in this country.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

And like I said are you going to pay for my education there?! It's about $30k a year and I'd probably have to start over because most of my credits wont transfer. If you don't wat to pay for it then hush up about it already.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

That's not really my problem is it? You're an adult. Figure it out. There's _nothing_ stopping you.
Lots of people have started out and become very successful with a WHOLE lot less than what you've got.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_You're right, they didn't, because they recognized the opportunity available here in this country._

 
lol ok so you realize my parents hate this country which is why one left and the other one is getting ready to. MY MOM GOT A SOCCER SCHOLARSHIP TO SAN FRANCISCO STATE UNIVERSITY. SHE CAME TO PLAY SOCCER AND THEN LEAVE BUT SHE HAD ME.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_That's not really my problem is it?_

 
No it's not, but you're so involved in it and you're so interested in it. It's my problem that's why I have to be stuck living here until I'm done. I'm dealing with it, you deal with it too.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

well just so u know since u mention the united nations alot
and the fact that they are keepin your father safe in their camp.

The U.N was started and funded by the USA yes 
OUR tax dollars also go to helping keep your father and your 
people safe. and no I do not mean to attack you or make u feel offended at all.. 
but u make it seem like ur the only whos tax money goes to that..
MY tax dollars go to payin the boarder patrol.. but am I saying anything? no. 

and to Raerae.. its not as easy as it sounds to be just american.
wen u fill out exams for school.. it gives u options 

-asian
-pacific islander
-hispanic
-white

and so on and so forth..
I dont see the "american" option anywhere in there.
I consider myself a Mexican American and its not a label 
its what I am.

wen I workd at a theater and a guest had to give me a compliment 
he went to the manager and said "oh that one cute lil mexican girl"
he didnt say that one american..
and wen a crime is comited and u give a report.. u dont say
"he looked american to me"
usually its the white male,, black male or hispanic or whatever he looked like..
I wish it was that easy but its not..


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_lol ok so you realize my parents hate this country which is why one left and the other one is getting ready to. MY MOM GOT A SOCCER SCHOLARSHIP TO SAN FRANCISCO STATE UNIVERSITY. SHE CAME TO PLAY SOCCER AND THEN LEAVE BUT SHE HAD ME._

 
That's awesome. Very parasitic. 
There's an airport in San Francisco. There ya go.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_No it's not, but you're so involved in it and you're so interested in it. It's my problem that's why I have to be stuck living here until I'm done. I'm dealing with it, you deal with it too._

 

Figure. It. Out.


----------



## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_ Yes I know how to cook traditional Polish cuisine, 
_

 
sausage.lol.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Whereas most refugees are the concern of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), most Palestinian refugees - those in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan - come under the older body UNRWA. On 11 December 1948, UN Resolution 194 was passed in order to protect the rights of Palestinian Arab refugees. Resolution 302 (IV) of 8 December 1949, set up UNRWA specifically to deal with the Palestinian problem. Palestinian refugees outside of UNRWA's area of operations do fall under UNHCR's mandate, however.

The term Palestinian refugee as used by UNRWA was never formally defined by the United Nations. The definition used in practice evolved independently of the UNHCR definition, which was established by the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees. UNRWA definition of refugee is as a person "whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict,"[9] though it is applied only to those who took refuge in one of the countries where UNRWA provides relief. 
The UNRWA also registers as refugees descendants in the male line of Palestinian refugees, and persons in need of support who first became refugees as a result of the 1967 conflict. The UNRWA definition in practice is thus both more restrictive and more inclusive than the 1951 definition; for example it excludes persons taking refuge in countries other than Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, yet it includes descendants of refugees as well as the refugees themselves (though UNHCR also provides support for children of refugees in many cases).


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Shimmer get over it seriously lol. I did figure it out, you're more obsessed with it then I am. Nobody is asking you to figure it out or to deal with it for me. I'm dealing with it thanks for your concern lol.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

so if getting an education somewhere else would cost more..
are u receiving a scholarship? 
then wouldnt u have the US to thank for the oportunity to be educated?
or to at least thank them for havin many resources and options so that an education isnt as expensive?

just a few thoughts


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Amoona, seriously, if you're dealing with it, if you're handling it, you wouldn't be sitting here saying that you're persecuted for who you are and what you believe. 
You were born on equal ground just like I was.
You can choose to do with your life as you please.
But for the love of GOD...stop pissing and moaning because the US is this horrible place because I can assure you, women of Muslim faith elsewhere in the world have it much worse than you can ever dream.


----------



## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_ 
wen I workd at a theater and a guest had to give me a compliment 
he went to the manager and said "oh that one cute lil mexican girl"
he didnt say that one american..
and wen a crime is comited and u give a report.. u dont say
"he looked american to me"
usually its the white male,, black male or hispanic or whatever he looked like..
I wish it was that easy but its not.._

 
Ha i can def relate to this comment..... reminds me of the time i was at Target and this lady came up to me and says  " excuse me do you speak english?"  my reaction is prob a lil off ... as to when she asked that i started laughing at her.. saying yes i speak english, some spanish, some korean, ebonics, kuntry slang which one do u prefer to hear.. lol okay way off topic but yea thanks for bringing that up brought back a funny moment in my life


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_well just so u know since u mention the united nations alot
and the fact that they are keepin your father safe in their camp.

The U.N was started and funded by the USA yes 
OUR tax dollars also go to helping keep your father and your 
people safe. and no I do not mean to attack you or make u feel offended at all.. 
but u make it seem like ur the only whos tax money goes to that..
MY tax dollars go to payin the boarder patrol.. but am I saying anything? no._

 
It's your choice to say anything about it or not, I do say something about it. And you should really visit a refugee camp before you think your tax dollars are doing any help.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Im not takin anyones side.. but

shimmer brought up an excellent point. 
You said that the UN Resolutions consider u a refugee..
but she just proved that it may not be true..

shes not obsessing .. she is proving the point that at any given time 
and if u choose to you can go to ur country because ur not a refugee

shes trying to prove her point in her own way..

just as u are in ur own way


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_so if getting an education somewhere else would cost more..
are u receiving a scholarship? 
then wouldnt u have the US to thank for the oportunity to be educated?
or to at least thank them for havin many resources and options so that an education isnt as expensive?

just a few thoughts_

 
No I'm not receiving scholarships or financial aid of any sort. Everyone's assuming I'm ungreatful because I don't like how my people have recently started to be treated in this country. That's an assumption everyone has made. Yes I hate living here because of how we are treated and THAT'S WHY I HATE LIVING HERE!


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Shimmer - if my parents went elsewhere then idk?! it didn't happen.

Raerae - I would consider you Polish but if you don't want to represent that heritage then that's fine. If you want to be see as an American and only that then fine. What is stopping me from returning to Palestine is that I don't have a Palestinian identity card/citizenship. Israel will not allow me to live there without it._

 
Last time I checked, Hamas was in control of the govt.  Since you, "voted" for them, why dont you ask them for a ID card.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_No I'm not receiving scholarships or financial aid of any sort. Everyone's assuming I'm ungreatful because I don't like how my people have recently started to be treated in this country. That's an assumption everyone has made. Yes I hate living here because of how we are treated and THAT'S WHY I HATE LIVING HERE!_

 
Maybe you get treated the way you do for the things you say and the manner in which you behave? Just asking.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_UNRWA definition of refugee is as a person "whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict,"[9] though it is applied only to those who took refuge in one of the countries where UNRWA provides relief. 
The UNRWA also registers as refugees descendants in the male line of Palestinian refugees, and persons in need of support who first became refugees as a result of the 1967 conflict. The UNRWA definition in practice is thus both more restrictive and more inclusive than the 1951 definition; for example it excludes persons taking refuge in countries other than Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, yet it includes descendants of refugees as well as the refugees themselves (though UNHCR also provides support for children of refugees in many cases)._

 
How does this not include me?! I'm a descendant of a male line of Palestinian refugees. My grandparents lost their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Nakbah. My mother's parents became refugees as a result of the 1967 war. My parents both took refuge in the West Bank and I'm their descendant.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Well excuse me if my tax dollars that I bust my ass for are not helping.. then I would gladly like them BACK!
I have a family and I know many ppl and organizations that would gladly take them..

even if it was just a damn dollar or two..

just the fact that those camps exist should be enough that we get at least a thanks.. and its not that I chose not to say anything

if I say something.. will it help?
will it change the situation? what position will it put me in?
and my family?

I dont have my mind closed just to MY own world..
and I know that even thou u say that its not helping
I know the people LIVING in those camps are thankful that 
they are there..

keeping them at least a bit better..

what do u want from the US?
 a freakin holiday inn?

its impossible to help every country and every cause..

kids in cambodia would gladly have my tax dollars which like u said are not helping ur refugeess it would help them..

have u lived in those camps? 
do u truly know what its like to be in there place?
wehere they lived before and why they are there?

if not 
dont speak for them..


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Last time I checked, Hamas was in control of the govt.  Since you, "voted" for them, why dont you ask them for a ID card._

 
They can't give me it, only Israel can because Israel controls the West Bank and Gaza. That's why it's called the Occupied Territories. We're occupied by Israel and they have control over us. That's way most Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza have never left those locations. Israel wont let you.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Maybe you get treated the way you do for the things you say and the manner in which you behave? Just asking._

 
I act in this manner when I'm being attacked for being Muslim. You're the only person I've encountered that feels the need to bring up me being Muslim anytime I speak. You're the only person I've encountered who likes to bring it up in a negative light.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_How does this not include me?! I'm a descendant of a male line of Palestinian refugees. My grandparents lost their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Nakbah. My mother's parents became refugees as a result of the 1967 war. My parents both took refuge in the West Bank and I'm their descendant._

 
"excludes persons taking refuge in countries other than Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip"


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_Well excuse me if my tax dollars that I bust my ass for are not helping.. then I would gladly like them BACK!
I have a family and I know many ppl and organizations that would gladly take them.._

 
You'd have to speak to your government about that one.

 Quote:

  even if it was just a damn dollar or two..

just the fact that those camps exist should be enough that we get at least a thanks.. and its not that I chose not to say anything

if I say something.. will it help?
will it change the situation? what position will it put me in?
and my family?

I dont have my mind closed just to MY own world..
and I know that even thou u say that its not helping
I know the people LIVING in those camps are thankful that 
they are there..

have u lived in those camps? 
do u truly know what its like to be in there place?
wehere they lived before and why they are there?

if not 
dont speak for them..  
 
If you think those camps existing is better then having our land returned to us you're wrong. And yes I have lived in those camps, I have to live in those camps when I go back home to visit. I don't talk out my ass, I speak from first hand experience.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

  Raerae - I would consider you Polish but if you don't want to represent that heritage then that's fine. If you want to be see as an American and only that then fine.  
 
How many generations pass b4 you stop being a X-American.  

And technically, I'm only 1/2 polish.  Both of my parents dont have Heritage from Poland.  

I can claim to be Cherokee Indian if I wanted, if, "where you parents are from" determines your heritage.  I can trace that bloodline back to Indian Reservations.

I'm Indian!  Feathers, not Dots!

Unfortunateley it's not a large enough % to have qualified me for any sort of College discount.

So yes, while the largest portion of my bloodline is Polish.  I'm not polish.  There are too many %'s in my bloodline for me to personally try to identify with some culture I know little to nothing about.  Which is why I'm an American.

America is a country of %'s.  Since my bloodline is as mixed as the country that I live in, I'm an AMERICAN.  More specifically a Californian!  STATE PRIDE BABY! lol!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




You should be proud to be a Californian too!


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

you said it.. treated recently..

do u know how weve been treated our whole lifes?
do u know the history of mexico and the us?

do u know of the war that took place and robbed us of 8 of our states?

do u freakin know what its like to be a freakin immigrant in our own freakin land??

do u even know what thats like?

dont get me started..

I wasnt takin any sides but your makin it seem like your
"people" are the only ones like that and they are not.

what about african americans who were slaves for hundreds of years.. 

please shimmer is right ur using that victim card too much

and just to let u know

my family is part arab.. 
they migrated to mexico a long long time ago and now were mexicans
so please dont try to tell me what its like


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I act in this manner when I'm being attacked for being Muslim. You're the only person I've encountered that feels the need to bring up me being Muslim anytime I speak. You're the only person I've encountered who likes to bring it up in a negative light._

 
I, someone whom you have never met, someone who has never perpetrated an act of violence or enmity against you, have the power to make you want to leave one of the greatest nations on the planet?

Wow.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Yes, excludes people taking refugees in countries OTHER that those listed above. My parents took refugee in the West Bank and I'm their descendant. If I'm not a refugee I don't understand why every other Arab country classifies me as such.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Well let me tell you that your land was not taken away by the US
it was taken by Israel. and the US is actually doing the favor to have those camps set up.

We didnt make u guys lose your land so why should we help you get it back?

I dont mean to sound harsh. but you have really really crossed that line..

you say it like "the us said we would have our land back"
like if were not makin good on a promise ..

if we didnt lose it, 

then thats something you should talk to YOUR government about


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Raerae - I am proud to from California. California rocks, I'd hate to live in the Midwest or East Coast (I don't do snow). People in California don't treat me the way people on this forum treat me.

glamdoll - you're getting yourself a lil worked up over nothing. I'm not saying I'm the only person who is treated poorly. I stated other racers being treated poorly earlier.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Shimmer - I guess it's hard for you to understand what I'm saying. So we can pretend you're what is making me leave. 

glamdoll - The US did have a part in helping Israel become Israel and taking over Palestinian land. They don't need to help give it back, but when they fund Israeli terrorisim then do you really expect Palestinians to jump for joy in support of Israel?

I'd like to add that there's not much the Palestinian government can do because they don't have much power. Israel holds the power.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

No Im not getting worked up.
Its just that now your saying that ppl in california dont treat you 
like people on here, but then you said something about how your ppl get treated here. 

then how your not american, or dont like it..
and now ur proud californian, when california is part of america

yeah I dunno.. 
I dont think you even know..

but anyway...

yeah ricky martin flipped off the damn president
just like britney flippd off ppl in mexico

so lets call it even


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

The middle east the middle east...
oh gosh what to do about them.. war here war there..
if the US gets in.. there is war ..
if the US doesnot help..
there is war..

its just really hard to even try and help them..
theyr at war with themselves

in the land of Christ...


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

lmao I know what I've said thanks. No people in California don't treat me like this, because the Bay Area is very liberal. I'm aware that California is a part of America. Everyone just makes assumptions of what I'm saying so I'll let you guys do that.

I said I was American by citizenship and Palestinian by heritage ... if you can't understand what I'm saying and jump to your own conclusions and interpert what I'm saying then there's not much I can help you with.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Shimmer - I guess it's hard for you to understand what I'm saying. So we can pretend you're what is making me leave._

 
You said people treating you badly is why you want to leave.
Then you said I'm the only person who treats you badly.
Logic follows that I am the one who is making you want to leave. I don't agree with you, but ok.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_The middle east the middle east...
oh gosh what to do about them.. war here war there..
if the US gets in.. there is war ..
if the US doesnot help..
there is war..

its just really hard to even try and help them..
theyr at war with themselves

in the land of Christ..._

 
If you don't understand or know the situation don't try to solve it. And just remember that Palestinians are Christian too, and yes they are effected by Israel. Being concerned for the land of Christ should also have you concerned for your fellow Christians. (now I'm just making the assumption that you're Christian)


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_and to Raerae.. its not as easy as it sounds to be just american.
wen u fill out exams for school.. it gives u options 

-asian
-pacific islander
-hispanic
-white

and so on and so forth..
I dont see the "american" option anywhere in there.
I consider myself a Mexican American and its not a label 
its what I am._

 
Thats because your Ethnicity, isn't your Nationality.  Your filling out paperwork, it's assumed that your an American.

Being Polish isn't an Ethnicity.  People in Poland are Caucasian.  The're also Black, Asian, Arab, Hispanic, etc etc etc.

Mexican isn't really a Ethnicity eigther.  If your Mexican, your Hispanic.  So when strangers say, oh what a cute Mexican girl, they incorrectly using Nationality in place of Ethnicity.  As chances are if your heritage was from any other Latin American country, they would say, "what a cute Mexican Girl" too.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_You said people treating you badly is why you want to leave.
Then you said I'm the only person who treats you badly.
Logic follows that I am the one who is making you want to leave. I don't agree with you, but ok._

 
I didn't say you're the only one, I said you're the only one I've encountered. I don't get hatred for being Muslim or Arab .. the general Muslim and Arab community gets it. The only LOCAL attack on Muslims was an Afghan woman killed in the East Bay for wearing hijab.

I don't like the general hatred towards Muslims and Arabs in this country. You say you don't think it's ok to openly be anti-Muslim but the fact is that the majority of this country thinks it is.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

I agree with shimmer.. Id quote ur past postings but theirs too many of them where u said its ppl like her that make u want to leave..
then that in cali u DONT get treated bad..
but then that your ppl get treated bad by our country

yes i get that ur american by citizenship n palestenian by heritage 
I said that first about me being american and mexican by heritage..

what I dont get is your anger against the US
you make it seem like were bad when all this country 
tries to do is send help all around the damn globe wen we hve problems at home..

and no no one here except trunkmoney was treating you bad.
you started an all out attack on our country..

you.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I didn't say you're the only one, I said you're the only one I've encountered. I don't get hatred for being Muslim or Arab .. the general Muslim and Arab community gets it. The only LOCAL attack on Muslims was an Afghan woman killed in the East Bay for wearing hijab.

I don't like the general hatred towards Muslims and Arabs in this country. You say you don't think it's ok to openly be anti-Muslim but the fact is that the majority of this country thinks it is._

 
How many different places in this country have you lived?


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Shimmer - I've only lived in the Bay Area as far as America.

glamdoll - If you misinterpert what I say there's nothing I can do about that.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *MxAxC-_ATTACK* 

 
_sausage.lol._

 
kiełbasa!  Not Sausage =p

Pierogi! <---- Best ever when made correctly!  I LOL when people try to pronounce it and always get it wrong.

Golumpki <--- Good stuff too.

We actually have at my Moms house, my Grandma's recipies.  All handwritten on scraps of paper.  Probably the worst part about her dying of Ahlztimers, I didn't get enough time to learn all the little tricks.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I didn't say you're the only one, I said you're the only one I've encountered. I don't get hatred for being Muslim or Arab ..._

 
I thought you said that you were being picked on for being muslim?
what about trunkmonkey who was the only one openly attacking you.. shimmer never attacked you personally

and wen you say " the rest of the country thinks is ok"

so you have talked to every single person in this country and they told you "oh yeah being anti-muslim is ok"

really?

because yeah it must be true, there are NONE of our soldiers dying out there in the Middle east right?

none of our boys trying to bring democracy abroad rite?

yeah anyway

dont talk for the country as a whole because their is alot of ppl who try to change this.. 
there are ppl trying to change the hate against muslims, jews and many other groups that get hated on..
and u make their efforts seem non existant when you thrwo them in alont with "the rest of the country"


----------



## Beauty Mark (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

  I can't stand it when people hyphenate their nationality. I'm X-American, I'm Y-American, I'm Z-American. No your not. Your an American.  
 
I think it's okay, if you and your family maintain the traditions of that national culture. I don't know how else to explain it, but I have friends who strongly identify themselves as dual-cultures. They're maintaining Indian and American culture (for instance), celebrating the holidays and things like that.

My personal pet peeve is if someone identifies more strongly with the other culture than the US one, when they grew up in this country.

It's almost impossible for me to identify just as being from a state of the US or as US citizen. I haven't met a single soul who isn't sated with me replying that I'm from x state or from the US. They press and press it; it's really ridiculous, considering I don't really identify with East Asia/Korea.


----------



## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_kiełbasa!  Not Sausage =p

Pierogi! <---- Best ever when made correctly!  I LOL when people try to pronounce it and always get it wrong.

Golumpki <--- Good stuff too.

We actually have at my Moms house, my Grandma's recipies.  All handwritten on scraps of paper.  Probably the worst part about her dying of Ahlztimers, I didn't get enough time to learn all the little tricks._

 

Stay on topic Raerae
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .........lol i kidd kidd and i must agree Pierogi is soooooooooo freaking good.. see now im hungry


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Shimmer - I've only lived in the Bay Area as far as America.

glamdoll - If you misinterpert what I say there's nothing I can do about that._

 
Then really, you haven't experienced America as a whole have you? 
I mean, I live here in Texas but I've lived numerous other places and experienced people from all over the country. 

I'm certainly not trying to be rude and it is definitely important to be passionate about your beliefs, but maybe your attitude and the way you behave has something to do directly with how you're treated?


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

I agree with you beauty mark..

its true.. my one pet peeve is that ppl here in the us
celebrate "5 de Mayo" like this huge event..
wen I was 14 I was in mexico about to do my communion 
and Quinceañera adn I was all excited cus I thought it be an even bigger celebration in mexico..
but no..
normal day.. nothing special.. nothing..

and here even the president has celebrated Cinco de MAyo!
hehehe
the real holiday is on Sept 16 wen we gained our independence!
but yeah..
heheh


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_I thought you said that you were being picked on for being muslim?
what about trunkmonkey who was the only one openly attacking you.. shimmer never attacked you personally

and wen you say " the rest of the country thinks is ok"

so you have talked to every single person in this country and they told you "oh yeah being anti-muslim is ok"

really?

because yeah it must be true, there are NONE of our soldiers dying out there in the Middle east right?

none of our boys trying to bring democracy abroad rite?

yeah anyway

dont talk for the country as a whole because their is alot of ppl who try to change this.. 
there are ppl trying to change the hate against muslims, jews and many other groups that get hated on..
and u make their efforts seem non existant when you thrwo them in alont with "the rest of the country"_

 
LMAO are you serious with this stuff?! Shimmer had to bring up the fact that I'm Muslim when it had nothing to do with this topic. She, as a Mod of this board, allowed those remarks to be made. I said she's the only person that feels the need to bring up that I'm Muslim anytime I make a comment. What does me being Muslim have anything to do with me not thinking it's a big deal that Ricky Martin flipped off the preseident?! Why does my religion have to be brought into it. Shimmer is the only person who ever does that constantly. Yes mulitple people on this board have made anti-Muslim remarks towards me but she is the one who likes to bring it up when it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

No I didn't speak to every person in this country, but I guess you don't understand what I meant by that either. 

Don’t throw it in my face that your soldiers are dieing. I didn’t ask them to come, they signed up for the army. I don’t think anyone was confused and thought they were signing up for summer camp. They are well aware that they could go to war and die. Not my fault.

And when we do have democracy in the Middle East … i.e. Palestine, we get shit for it because it wasn’t who America wanted us to vote for.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Back the truck up and check your facts hon. 

I didn't pull YOUR RELIGION into this.
I said you're being a hypocrite. 
There's a difference.
I don't care what religion you are.
You're sensitive about it obviously, but I did not ever one single time criticize you for being Muslim. I couldn't care less. 
I called you out, and will continue to do so, for being a hypocrite.

Stop demanding respect but being unwilling to give it.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_It's almost impossible for me to identify just as being from a state of the US or as US citizen. I haven't met a single soul who isn't sated with me replying that I'm from x state or from the US. They press and press it; it's really ridiculous, considering I don't really identify with East Asia/Korea._

 
OMG I know....  People ask where I'm from, And I say, "the united states" or "california."  And there like, "NO!  I mean where are you from?!?!?"  Are you German, French, British, etc etc etc"

And I'm like...  I'm from America...

And there like "Ok...  Where are your PARENTS from!" 

And I'm like, "America."  

And there like, "..."

Then there like, "Where are your parents, parents, parents, parents, parents, parents....  parents, parents, from?"

And I'm like, "Poland." (My father died early, do I dont identify with his side of the family.)

And there like, "So your Polish-American!"

And I'm like, "..."

LOL...

I really dont understand it...


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Then really, you haven't experienced America as a whole have you? 
I mean, I live here in Texas but I've lived numerous other places and experienced people from all over the country. 

I'm certainly not trying to be rude and it is definitely important to be passionate about your beliefs, but maybe your attitude and the way you behave has something to do directly with how you're treated?_

 
I never claimed that ALL AMERICANS ARE ANTI-MUSLIM AND ANTI-ARAB. I said that in this time, after 9/11, it became ok to openly not like Muslims, Arabs, and people who are thought to be them. I said that's why I don't like living in this country. Before that I had no problem with it. Everyone here just wants to believe that I am anti-American. I have two major problems with this country - 1, my tax dollars go to help kill people in my own country and 2, the media plays one side of what we are so it makes it ok if someone in this country hates muslims/arabs.

But since I'm not gun-ho everyone wants to assume that I hate this country with a passion and want evil things to happen here. I forgot who but someone even said that I thought America was evil lol. I never said that.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Back the truck up and check your facts hon. 

I didn't pull YOUR RELIGION into this.
I said you're being a hypocrite. 
There's a difference.
I don't care what religion you are.
You're sensitive about it obviously, but I did not ever one single time criticize you for being Muslim. I couldn't care less. 
I called you out, and will continue to do so, for being a hypocrite.

Stop demanding respect but being unwilling to give it._

 
What does my religion have to do with me thinking Ricky Martin flippin Bush off isn't a big deal!?! Why do you have to pull my religion into it and call me a hypocrite because I don't hold a politicial figure as high as I do a religious figure?! Stop trying to get me to believe the same shit you believe. I don't believe it's the same so I can't be a hypocrite. You believe it's the same so to you I'm a hypocrite, to me I'm not. You just can't deal with the fact that I don't see eye to eye with you.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I never claimed that ALL AMERICANS ARE ANTI-MUSLIM AND ANTI-ARAB. I said that in this time, after 9/11, it became ok to openly not like Muslims, Arabs, and people who are thought to be them. I said that's why I don't like living in this country. Before that I had no problem with it. Everyone here just wants to believe that I am anti-American. I have two major problems with this country - 1, my tax dollars go to help kill people in my own country and 2, the media plays one side of what we are so it makes it ok if someone in this country hates muslims/arabs.

But since I'm not gun-ho everyone wants to assume that I hate this country with a passion and want evil things to happen here. I forgot who but someone even said that I thought America was evil lol. I never said that._

 
You said you hate it here, you hate living here, you hate living in this country, you hate hate hate hate hate hate hate your parents hate living here, and on and on.

What exactly do you think people  are supposed to think?


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_What does my religion have to do with me thinking Ricky Martin flippin Bush off isn't a big deal!?! Why do you have to pull my religion into it and call me a hypocrite because I don't hold a politicial figure as high as I do a religious figure?! Stop trying to get me to believe the same shit you believe. I don't believe it's the same so I can't be a hypocrite. You believe it's the same so to you I'm a hypocrite, to me I'm not. You just can't deal with the fact that I don't see eye to eye with you._

 
Because you hold him important, you'd be angry at the idea of a public figure flipping the bird when discussing Muhammed, because you hold him important. Certain people hold our president important, myself included, so it's _just as offensive_.
The fact you can't see that isn't because you can't, it's because you choose not to.
Don't dismiss someone's indignation, when you yourself would be indignant were you in their shoes.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Not my fault if they take it whatever way they want to take it.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Because you hold him important, you'd be angry at the idea of a public figure flipping the bird when discussing Muhammed, because you hold him important. Certain people hold our president important, myself included, so it's just as offensive.
The fact you can't see that isn't because you can't, it's because you choose not to.
Don't dismiss someone's indignation, when you yourself would be indignant were you in their shoes._

 
Why do I HAVE TO agree with you? I don't, just like you've said many times you don't care about Muhammed or those cartoons. Why should I care about someone flippin off Bush?!


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Not my fault if they take it whatever way they want to take it._

 
Then, it's not my fault you feel persecuted. You're creating the situation in your own mind.


----------



## MAC_Whore (Feb 28, 2007)

The UN also recognizes Isreal as a legitimate state.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Why do I HAVE TO agree with you? I don't, just like you've said many times you don't care about Muhammed or those cartoons. Why should I care about someone flippin off Bush?!_

 
I'm not saying  that you should care about someone f lipping off the President. 
I'm saying that you shouldn't dismiss the feelings of those who DO care.


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Not my fault if they take it whatever way they want to take it._

 
And THIS is precisely why Shimmer keeps calling you out for being hypocritical. You'd go apeshit if someone was singing about your god and flipped the bird. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that to some people, George Bush is important. Just because he isn't to you, he couldn't POSSIBLY be important to anyone else. This is why people have issues with you, not because you are Muslim, but because of your attitude.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Shimmer - I'm not dismissing the feelings of those who do care. I never told you not to care. I never said you shouldn't care. What I've been saying over and over and over again is that I don't care. If you do then go for it, I'm not telling you not to care.


----------



## xmrsvindieselx (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

  Can I just say... that Ricky Martin brings out the "best" in people...LOL.... ( sorry I had to )  
 
what the hell have I done? started world war specktra!? lol I wasnt trying to get people to fightttt.. I'm just in loveeeee with Ricky.. =]

and I totally respect the fact that people have their own opinions, because I have them too.. but ricky is NOT a bad person for what he did.. i DID NOT say that what he did was right.. but that doesn't make him a bad person..

and hes sexy as hellllllllllllll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







haha sorrry theres just too much tension up in hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_And THIS is precisely why Shimmer keeps calling you out for being hypocritical. You'd go apeshit if someone was singing about your god and flipped the bird. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that to some people, George Bush is important. Just because he isn't to you, he couldn't POSSIBLY be important to anyone else. This is why people have issues with you, not because you are Muslim, but because of your attitude._

 
I NEVER DISMISSED HIS IMPORTANCE!!!!!!


----------



## ilovexnerdsx (Feb 28, 2007)

i think he's hot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ricky martin that is, not president bush


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_LMAO are you serious with this stuff?! Shimmer had to bring up the fact that I'm Muslim when it had nothing to do with this topic._

 
Actually...

Most people can understand the value of an Analogy when trying to show someone their opinion or value.  

Since you dont understand X, I'll show you how Y (which you do understand) is similar to X.  This way you can understand X.

Many people in America see the President as JUST as important a figure, as you see your Prophet.  Your prophet is the leader of the Islamic Religion.  GWB is the current leader of the free world.

Just because YOU dont think he's as Important, doesn't mean others do.  I dont personally think your Prophet is important (I think most organized religion is silly).  Just because I dont believe he's as important, doesn't mean you value his importance any less.

You may not respect the Man, but you SHOULD respect the office.

So while you say it's no big deal Ricky gave GWB the finger, many American's DO think it's a big deal.  So to better help you understand WHY they feel it's important (since you dont understand that), she drew an analogy to someone you hold a great deal of respect for.

To SHIMMER (and others) giving GWB the finger is JUST AS DISRESPECTFUL, as you feel drawing a cartoon of the Prophet is.

Thats ALL she said.

You then started to protest, when their was really nothing to protest at all.  Typical.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Shimmer - I'm not dismissing the feelings of those who do care. I never told you not to care. I never said you shouldn't care. What I've been saying over and over and over again is that I don't care. If you do then go for it, I'm not telling you not to care._

 
And I explained to you why (because you did ask) it IS such a big deal.


----------



## MAC_Whore (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *ilovexnerdsx* 

 
_...not president bush 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
Glad you clarified that.  Somehow I just don't see you two together.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

The fact that Raerae and I are thanking each other in this thread is remarkable.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

*"Um last time I checked I didn't start an attack on her, she started one with me. She called me out and then went on to say things about how my religion recruits people to become bombs. All offensive stereotypes. Then she goes on thinking that she's making me shake in my boots because she thinks she has power over me. 

When you were in Iraq and you had people saying horrible things to you everyday and hating you and not wanting you to be there and telling you to leave the country didn't it make you hate being there?! Why do you think I hate being in this country?!

I didn't say I hate this country and everyone in it and I want horrible things to happen to this country. I just hate living here, it's not for me. Being a Muslim and an Arab who is very proud of those two identities, this is not the place for me to be. Like I said to her before, if anyone wants me to leave America before I'm done with school just pay my flight, housing, and tuition overseas and I'm out of here."*

here you did say u hate living here..
and u said that ur mom came to play soccer on a scholarship..
so thats once again our tax dollars to pay for your moms education..

you contradict your self too much..

but I still stand by the fact that a religious leader and a political leader are not the same..

I think what shimmer was saying is that the way you say 
"so ricky martin flipped off bush and what?"

is exactly the same thing to someone saying
" so muhammed go drawn w a bomb on his head and wat? its just a cartoon?"

they are both leaders for a reason, 
and the fact that you dismissed the feelings of those who do support bush,
opened up for space for dismissing those who support muhammad..

just like they attacked and harrased that one bald lady for rippin up a picture of the pope..
she opend the door .. and so did u..


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Actually...

Most people can understand the value of an Analogy when trying to show someone their opinion or value.  

Since you dont understand X, I'll show you how Y (which you do understand) is similar to X.  This way you can understand X.

Many people in America see the President as JUST as important a figure, as you see your Prophet.  Your prophet is the leader of the Islamic Religion.  GWB is the current leader of the free world.

Just because YOU dont think he's as Important, doesn't mean others do.  I dont personally think your Prophet is important (I think most organized religion is silly).  Just because I dont believe he's as important, doesn't mean you value his importance any less.

You may not respect the Man, but you SHOULD respect the office.

So while you say it's no big deal Ricky gave GWB the finger, many American's DO think it's a big deal.  So to better help you understand WHY they feel it's important (since you dont understand that), she drew an analogy to someone you hold a great deal of respect for.

To SHIMMER (and others) giving GWB the finger is JUST AS DISRESPECTFUL, as you feel drawing a cartoon of the Prophet is.

Thats ALL she said.

You then started to protest, when their was really nothing to protest at all.  Typical._

 
Ok but I never said it wasn't important, I said to me it wasn't as important. I said I hold a religious figure higher then a politicial one. I didn't say that's how everyone else thinks. I didn't say that's how everyone else should think. I said that's what I THINK!

I don't see those two as the samething. I understand people view Bush highly and that's fine. To each his own. But everyone's trying so hard for me to think it's just as important when I just don't. I never will. But I also never denied that it's very important to anyone. I said I didn't think it was a big deal and I still don't because it's not a big deal to ME!


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

I *really* didn't think the analogy was that confusing.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_*"Um last time I checked I didn't start an attack on her, she started one with me. She called me out and then went on to say things about how my religion recruits people to become bombs. All offensive stereotypes. Then she goes on thinking that she's making me shake in my boots because she thinks she has power over me. 

When you were in Iraq and you had people saying horrible things to you everyday and hating you and not wanting you to be there and telling you to leave the country didn't it make you hate being there?! Why do you think I hate being in this country?!

I didn't say I hate this country and everyone in it and I want horrible things to happen to this country. I just hate living here, it's not for me. Being a Muslim and an Arab who is very proud of those two identities, this is not the place for me to be. Like I said to her before, if anyone wants me to leave America before I'm done with school just pay my flight, housing, and tuition overseas and I'm out of here."*

here you did say u hate living here..
and u said that ur mom came to play soccer on a scholarship..
so thats once again our tax dollars to pay for your moms education..

you contradict your self too much..

but I still stand by the fact that a religious leader and a political leader are not the same..

I think what shimmer was saying is that the way you say 
"so ricky martin flipped off bush and what?"

is exactly the same thing to someone saying
" so muhammed go drawn w a bomb on his head and wat? its just a cartoon?"

they are both leaders for a reason, 
and the fact that you dismissed the feelings of those who do support bush,
opened up for space for dismissing those who support muhammad..

just like they attacked and harrased that one bald lady for rippin up a picture of the pope..
she opend the door .. and so did u.._

 
*I DIDN'T DENY I HATE LIVING HERE!!!!!!!*

I gave my reasons for why I hate living here if you can't put two and two together that's your problem.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_I *really* didn't think the analogy was that confusing._

 
It wasn't ... but it isn't the same to me.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Amoona you didnt say "GWB isnt important" directly..
but neither did Shimmer

shimmer just said its like saying.."the drawing was no biggie"

its just the same..

you dint say it directly neither did she..
u misunderstood her example.. and the whole 
thread blew up..

but like I said..

call it even


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

And glamdoll for the millionth time I never said that it's not important to other's I said it's not important to me.


----------



## Beauty Mark (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

  and I totally respect the fact that people have their own opinions, because I have them too.. but ricky is NOT a bad person for what he did.. i DID NOT say that what he did was right.. but that doesn't make him a bad person..  
 
I don't think he's a bad person. I find his actions mostly immature, but he hasn't killed anyone or convinced anyone to do that.

I don't think he's hot, but he put out some catchy music and he could dance. That's all I ask for out of a pop star.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Ok but I never said it wasn't important, I said to me it wasn't as important. I said I hold a religious figure higher then a politicial one. I didn't say that's how everyone else thinks. I didn't say that's how everyone else should think. I said that's what I THINK!

I don't see those two as the samething. I understand people view Bush highly and that's fine. To each his own. But everyone's trying so hard for me to think it's just as important when I just don't. I never will. But I also never denied that it's very important to anyone. I said I didn't think it was a big deal and I still don't because it's not a big deal to ME!_

 
erm...

 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Um idk why you're bringing that up because that's a totally different issue. That was something done to disrespect a religion and people who hold a certain religious belief. I could understand if Ricky Martin was disrespecting a Jewish or Christian leader. He was flipping off Bush that's why I personally don't see it as a big deal. A majority of US citizens have something negative to say about Bush.

If you'd like to bring up the cartoons we can go into a whole different discussion. It's not the samething._

 
Amoona...  Just say it with me, "OOPS!  My bad!  I misunderstood!"

This never had anything to do with cartoons.

Some of us hold political leaders higher than religious ones.


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_Amoona you didnt say "GWB isnt important" directly..
but neither did Shimmer

shimmer just said its like saying.."the drawing was no biggie"

its just the same..

you dint say it directly neither did she..
u misunderstood her example.. and the whole 
thread blew up..

but like I said..

call it even_

 
I said Bush is not important to me. I understand the drawing is not important to Shimmer. She brought it up, I said it wasn't the same and she doesnt want to accept that I don't think it's the same.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Good freaking grief. 
It is the same.
Person A is an important figure who represents a lot to do with the lifestyle of millions of people. Person X flipped Person A off.
People who consider person A important are offended.

Person B is an important figure who represents a lot to do with the lifestyle of millions of people. Person X flipped Person B off. 
People who consider Person B important are offended.

HOW is that any different other than because you're choosing to be inherently stubborn only because you don't want to admit a point????


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Yeah and you also said something about respect..
well in one of janice's post before joining it is said that
writting in big bold capital letters is considered shouting.
and it should not be done.
so now u violated the TOS and if your post get banned
which by u complain alot.. 
there is your reason..

if you cant handle the conversation without being over heated..
you should not have carried it on


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I NEVER DISMISSED HIS IMPORTANCE!!!!!!_

 
Actually, that is exactly what you did here:


 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_So because he's the president of your country he should be treated in the same light as a major religions prophet?! I'm not even going to continue with this thread because obviously someones trying to start something with me like always. Either way I'd be censored like I usually am if I even try to get into it.

Last time I'm going to say is that no its not the samething. Bush is not a religious figure for one of the largest religions in the world. Ricky Martin is jus a singer flipping of an idiot. When people start worshipping Bush as a religious figure and follow a religion he is a prophet of then it'll be a similar situation._


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_erm...



Amoona...  Just say it with me, "OOPS!  My bad!  I misunderstood!"

This never had anything to do with cartoons.

Some of us hold political leaders higher than religious ones._

 
I didn't misunderstand though, I understand. Everyone seems to think that I'm denying them their right to hold Bush highly. I don't care if you hold him highly, go for it. I don't hold a political figure as high as a religious one so I don't think Shimmer bringing up the cartoon had anything to do with this thread. She does, I don't ... she wants me to understand that it is the same but to me its not and it never will be.


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_so now u violated the TOS and if your post get banned
which by u complain alot.. 
there is your reason.._

 
Of course its not the reason. Its because she's Muslim. Duh.


----------



## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I said Bush is not important to me. I understand the drawing is not important to Shimmer. She brought it up, I said it wasn't the same and she doesnt want to accept that I don't think it's the same._

 
And, Muhammed isn't important to me. I've still got those cartoons saved on my external. I'll print out and wear them on my tshirt tomorrow and get angry when other people are offended because seriously, it's just Muhammed, not that big a deal, and LOTS of people have something to say negatively about Muhammed.


----------



## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Yes and I am trying to get you to understand for the millionth time that just how this is not important to you but it is to shimmer..

the drawin is not important to her but it is to you...

admitting you were wrong doesnt kill you


----------



## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_And, Muhammed isn't important to me. I've still got those cartoons saved on my external. I'll print out and wear them on my tshirt tomorrow and get angry when other people are offended because seriously, it's just Muhammed, not that big a deal, and LOTS of people have something to say negatively about Muhammed._

 
I would pay for a picture of you in that t-shirt.


----------



## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I don't see those two as the samething. I understand people view Bush highly and that's fine. To each his own. But everyone's trying so hard for me to think it's just as important when I just don't. I never will. But I also never denied that it's very important to anyone. I said I didn't think it was a big deal and I still don't because it's not a big deal to ME!_

 
Your still missing the point...

No one is saying, you need to see Bush as important as a Religious figure.

There saying, you need to understand that SOME people are just as upset over Ricky giving GWB the finger, as YOU would be if Ricky was singing an Islamic song and a cartoon of the Prophet came up and he put up his middle finger.

This is where you go, "Oh, yeh, I'd be pretty pissed too if I respected Bush that way.  I dont personally care that Ricky gave Bush the finger since I dont respect him, but I can TOTALLY understand why you might be upset that he did."

Try it with me again, "Oops!  My bad!"


----------



## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Um LadyBug I didn't deny he's important in that comment. I denied he's as important to me as a religious figure. When people worship him as a religious leader I'll give him the same respect as I'd give any religious figure.

And Shimmer ... for the millionth time it's not the same to me!!!! To you it is to me it's not. Why can't you deal with that?! You always claim that I'm trying to make people see my views. You're trying to make me see the same views as you! I don't hold politicial figures as highly as I do religious figures.

I'd never compare someone flipping off Yasser Arafat to the cartoons. To me it's not the same, if you can't accept that then deal with it.


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_I would pay for a picture of you in that t-shirt._

 
If I find my freaking paper, I may just make it tonight.


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_And, Muhammed isn't important to me. I've still got those cartoons saved on my external. I'll print out and wear them on my tshirt tomorrow and get angry when other people are offended because seriously, it's just Muhammed, not that big a deal, and LOTS of people have something to say negatively about Muhammed._

 
I never told you that you it had to be important to you but you keep trying to beat it into me that Ricky Martin flipping off Bush should be important to me.


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Um LadyBug I didn't deny he's important in that comment. I denied he's as important to me as a religious figure. When people worship him as a religious leader I'll give him the same respect as I'd give any religious figure.

And Shimmer ... for the millionth time it's not the same to me!!!! To you it is to me it's not. Why can't you deal with that?! You always claim that I'm trying to make people see my views. You're trying to make me see the same views as you! I don't hold politicial figures as highly as I do religious figures.

I'd never compare someone flipping off Yasser Arafat to the cartoons. To me it's not the same, if you can't accept that then deal with it._

 
 Quote:

   Originally Posted by *raerae* 
_No one is saying, you need to see Bush as important as a Religious figure.

There saying, you need to understand that SOME people are just as upset over Ricky giving GWB the finger, as YOU would be if Ricky was singing an Islamic song and a cartoon of the Prophet came up and he put up his middle finger.

This is where you go, "Oh, yeh, I'd be pretty pissed too if I respected Bush that way. I dont personally care that Ricky gave Bush the finger since I dont respect him, but I can TOTALLY understand why you might be upset that he did."

Try it with me again, "Oops! My bad!"_

 
^^^^^ that pretty much sums it up.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

shes livign la vida loca

du du du dumm

la vida loca

hahahhaha jk


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_Your still missing the point...

No one is saying, you need to see Bush as important as a Religious figure.

There saying, you need to understand that SOME people are just as upset over Ricky giving GWB the finger, as YOU would be if Ricky was singing an Islamic song and a cartoon of the Prophet came up and he put up his middle finger.

This is where you go, "Oh, yeh, I'd be pretty pissed too if I respected Bush that way.  I dont personally care that Ricky gave Bush the finger since I dont respect him, but I can TOTALLY understand why you might be upset that he did."

Try it with me again, "Oops!  My bad!"_

 
I do understand that to some people it's a big deal, to me it's not. I understand that to Shimmer it's the same thing as the cartoons, to me it's not.


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## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_Um LadyBug I didn't deny he's important in that comment. I denied he's as important to me as a religious figure. When people worship him as a religious leader I'll give him the same respect as I'd give any religious figure._

 
Nope, sorry. When you say "When people start worshipping Bush as a religious figure and follow a religion he is a prophet of then it'll be a similar situation." you are inherently denying the fact that to SOME people he is just as important as your god is to you. 

I haven't seen anyone at any point tell you that you need to be personally offended that Ricky Martin flipped off George Bush. They've simply pointed out your hypocrisy in refusing to accept that to some people it is an egregious action.


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I never told you that you it had to be important to you but you keep trying to beat it into me that Ricky Martin flipping off Bush should be important to me._

 
You said what's the big deal, everyone has something bad about him to say anyway.
I said no, those people who are offended are offended with good reason.
And made the freaking analogy.
Just because you refuse to see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I'm not saying Bush should be important to you as Muhammed is.
I'm saying that by behaving the way he did, Martin offended people because there are people who respect the office of the President as much as you profess to respect your religious leader. 
I'm not telling you to do _anything_, except stop pulling the persecuted victim card everytime someone doesn't agree with you. I'm not telling you to revere Bush. I'm telling you that people were offended because in the same light as you hold muhammed, there are people who respect the President.


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_Nope, sorry. When you say "When people start worshipping Bush as a religious figure and follow a religion he is a prophet of then it'll be a similar situation." you are inherently denying the fact that to SOME people he is just as important as your god is to you. 

I haven't seen anyone at any point tell you that you need to be personally offended that Ricky Martin flipped off George Bush. They've simply pointed out your hypocrisy in refusing to accept that to some people it is an egregious action._

 
I don't refuse to accept that. You refuse to accept that I don't deny he's important to some people. He means nothing to me, if you love the guy for it. I'm not telling u not to.


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## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_And Shimmer ... for the millionth time it's not the same to me!!!! To you it is to me it's not. Why can't you deal with that?! You always claim that I'm trying to make people see my views. You're trying to make me see the same views as you! I don't hold politicial figures as highly as I do religious figures.

I'd never compare someone flipping off Yasser Arafat to the cartoons. To me it's not the same, if you can't accept that then deal with it._

 
Amoona we know it's not the same to you.

What you have yet to admit is that you can understand WHY other people who do hold political figures with high esteem are upset about it.

The point of discussion is to gain understand of other people's views.  You dont have to accept them, but it's important to be able to see them.

Try it again, "Oops I did it again~"


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_You said what's the big deal, everyone has something bad about him to say anyway.
I said no, those people who are offended are offended with good reason.
And made the freaking analogy.
Just because you refuse to see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I'm not saying Bush should be important to you as Muhammed is.
I'm saying that by behaving the way he did, Martin offended people because there are people who respect the office of the President as much as you profess to respect your religious leader. 
I'm not telling you to do anything, except stop pulling the persecuted victim card everytime someone doesn't agree with you. I'm not telling you to revere Bush. I'm telling you that people were offended because in the same light as you hold muhammed, there are people who respect the President._

 

I understand that there are people who love and respect Bush. I'm not one of those people. I will not hold him in the same light.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

uh i dont get it.. 
if that was ur whole point then why did u have to bring in
the whole refugee.. war.. ur land back that we promised..
my tax money not helping u... u hate america .. into the mix?

u coulda just said that..

its the same thing to different ppl but not to me..

why did we have to go into a detailed convo about ur mom and ur dad and the land if ur point was as simple as u make it seem?

yeah.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Shake ur bombom 

shake your bombom 

shake your bombom


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I understand that there are people who love and respect Bush. I'm not one of those people. I will not hold him in the same light._

 
_*I. Never. Asked. You. To.*_

I made an analogy.
You were offended by the analogy.
I'm not asking you to do ANYTHING other than say "Oh. Y'know, you're right, there probably are people who are offended by his behaviour, and I guess, in their shoes, in a similar situation, I would be too..."


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## MAC_Whore (Feb 28, 2007)

Just in case anyone would like to beat their head against it, here you go.....


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## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

LMAO. I was just looking for a smiley doing that very thing.


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

that do it?


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_uh i dont get it.. 
if that was ur whole point then why did u have to bring in
the whole refugee.. war.. ur land back that we promised..
my tax money not helping u... u hate america .. into the mix?

u coulda just said that..

its the same thing to different ppl but not to me..

why did we have to go into a detailed convo about ur mom and ur dad and the land if ur point was as simple as u make it seem?

yeah._

 
I was saying it but other people decided to bring in other things into the mix.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

Ricky martin is makin his come back!
hhaha NOT

i hope not..

I doubt that hell hit


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## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_





that do it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 
That was the one!


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## Raerae (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I was saying it but other people decided to bring in other things into the mix._

 
No. You misunderstood (still dont understand).


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_*I. Never. Asked. You. To.*

I made an analogy.
You were offended by the analogy.
I'm not asking you to do ANYTHING other than say "Oh. Y'know, you're right, there probably are people who are offended by his behaviour, and I guess, in their shoes, in a similar situation, I would be too..."_

 
I didn't think you'r analogy was the same, I wasn't offended by it. I just don't think it's the same. To you it maybe but to me it's not. I didn't deny that people would be offended by what he did, I wasn't and I really didn't think it was a big deal. I didn't think anyone would be offended with me saying it wasn't a big deal. I wasn't that's all I was saying.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

"I just wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and sunshine and everybody would eat it and we could all be happy..."

hahahhhahah


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## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Damn it. Now I want cake.


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_I didn't think you'r analogy was the same, I wasn't offended by it. I just don't think it's the same. To you it maybe but to me it's not. I didn't deny that people would be offended by what he did, I wasn't and I really didn't think it was a big deal. I didn't think anyone would be offended with me saying it wasn't a big deal. I wasn't that's all I was saying._

 
I'm not asking you to think it was the same.
I'm really really not.


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## amoona (Feb 28, 2007)

Raerae that comment wasn't even directed towards you.


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_Damn it. Now I want cake._

 
I want Reese's Butterfinger Easter Candy.
The ones that come out at holidays? Where the butterfinger is already all smooshed up with the chocolate?
Yeah.


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## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_I want Reese's Butterfinger Easter Candy.
The ones that come out at holidays? Where the butterfinger is already all smooshed up with the chocolate?
Yeah._

 
You are all killing me. I'm at that stage where I'm just about past my constant retching and I want to eat everything in my sights. I was at the commissary today and the amount of random junk food I bought to sate my cravings would make you laugh.

Then I have to explain to my girls why I'm hiding in the pantry eating Girl Scouts cookies and a popsicle at the same time.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

hmmm that sounds good!

I want the little fake marshmallow things
that not even acid can destroy
and its really bad for ur stomach..

but taste good..

I forgot what theyre called..
they come in the form of a duck?

Peeps??
yeah those


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_You are all killing me. I'm at that stage where I'm just about past my constant retching and I want to eat everything in my sights. I was at the commissary today and the amount of random junk food I bought to sate my cravings would make you laugh.

Then I have to explain to my girls why I'm hiding in the pantry eating Girl Scouts cookies and a popsicle at the same time._

 
Are they scarred for life?

Dammit My grumbly wants a cheesecake icecream with oreos mixed in on a white chocolate dipped oreo rolled cone now.


Yes, I'm having my girltime.


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## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

I hate you all.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

oh man.. I loved starbucks..
after givin birth.. they dont apeal to me as much..

I have this weird 24/7 craving for avocados or guacamole..
its sooo good..


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## *Stargazer* (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_Are they scarred for life?_

 
They are seriously mad that I get to eat whatever the heck I want, whenever I want. Which might explain why my two year old told the everyone in Victoria's Secret the other day "Momma, your tushy is getting bigger." At the top of her lungs, of course. 

Last week I ate an entire gallon of pickles from Costco.


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## MAC_Whore (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *glamdoll* 

 
_....Peeps??
yeah those_

 
Are you by chance giving a shout out to your peeps?


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## Shimmer (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Ladybug10678* 

 
_They are seriously mad that I get to eat whatever the heck I want, whenever I want. Which might explain why my two year old told the everyone in Victoria's Secret the other day "Momma, your tushy is getting bigger." At the top of her lungs, of course. 

Last week I ate an entire gallon of pickles from Costco._

 
oh dear.


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## glamdoll (Feb 28, 2007)

hahahah No.. 

I think thats the name of the candy.."Peeps"

theyr like yellow marshmallowy birds..

I saw a special report that they put them in acid and it was
super hard to disolve them..
nevertheless digest them..


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## hyperRealGurl (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Shimmer* 

 
_I want Reese's Butterfinger Easter Candy.
The ones that come out at holidays? Where the butterfinger is already all smooshed up with the chocolate?
Yeah._

 
Yummers..droools


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## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Raerae* 

 
_kiełbasa!  Not Sausage =p

Pierogi! <---- Best ever when made correctly!  I LOL when people try to pronounce it and always get it wrong.

Golumpki <--- Good stuff too.

We actually have at my Moms house, my Grandma's recipies.  All handwritten on scraps of paper.  Probably the worst part about her dying of Ahlztimers, I didn't get enough time to learn all the little tricks._

 
a reply a little late.. but its not my fault that I left for 2 hours and when i came back the thread had grown by like 6 pages!!! 

but yes. Pierogi! my grampa makes em fantastically .


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## ilovexnerdsx (Feb 28, 2007)

lets hold a contest to see who can paint this picture the best in MS paint

http://www.kids-coloring-pages.net/c...ster-bunny.jpg


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## ilovexnerdsx (Feb 28, 2007)

Mmm Pierogis


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## ilovexnerdsx (Feb 28, 2007)

no wait....this picture is better to color...


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## Hawkeye (Mar 1, 2007)

Are you crazy? Nobody on this thread will agree to disagree because we all have a few who could argue with a fence post. 

GRRRR

BTW I do like that pic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Here's my own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I offically do this simply because I wish to put it here.
So there


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## Raerae (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_Are you crazy? Nobody on this thread will agree to disagree because we all have a few who could argue with a fence post._


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## ilovexnerdsx (Mar 1, 2007)

hahah awww stoned kitty *pets the screen*


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## Beauty Mark (Mar 1, 2007)

I love it when my cat gets this stoned look from her catnip. She becomes increasingly paranoid, too, for a little bit. It's hilarious.


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## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Beauty Mark* 

 
_I love it when my cat gets this stoned look from her catnip. She becomes increasingly paranoid, too, for a little bit. It's hilarious._

 
we have this cat that lives in the office. and we also have a box of catnip mice.. one night he decided he wanted the whole box, when I came in in the morning there was catnip mice EVERYWHERE !! haha he must of had QUITE a night!! he starts to drool when he plays with the lil "nipmice"


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## little teaser (Mar 1, 2007)

well.. i didnt get offened by ricky giveing bush the finger at all. i dont really have much respect for him and im sorry but i wasnt brain washed into thinking i have to respect a "rank" a political one at that, i also feel the same with religious leaders i dont feel the need to bow down to them either.. i respect people and who they are as a person not there title or rank.. thats my opinion and i can respect others that may feel and think diffrent.


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## Shimmer (Mar 1, 2007)

Completely understand what you're saying, only I want to point out that the office of President is actually the top military position in the United States Military. The President actually does have a "rank", which is Commander in Chief, and is leader for all branches of service...so no, it's not _just_ a political office.


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## xbeatofangelx (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *amoona* 

 
_lmao I know what I've said thanks. No people in California don't treat me like this, because the Bay Area is very liberal. I'm aware that California is a part of America. Everyone just makes assumptions of what I'm saying so I'll let you guys do that.

I said I was American by citizenship and Palestinian by heritage ... if you can't understand what I'm saying and jump to your own conclusions and interpert what I'm saying then there's not much I can help you with._

 
Wooooww... I'm from California, born and raised, and way to generalize the Bay. I don't think anyone is "jumping to conclusions" about your heritage, your citizenship, or your religion anymore.. Even in Berkeley (where I go to school), there are A LOT of close minded people. Not all of the protests are liberal. Don't forget about the North and Southern parts of California (the boonies) where all the rural folks live =]..

I think that a lot of the people in this thread are just annoyed by you!

You really don't need to defend your entire country/religion..

And I think what Shimmer was trying to point out is that you CAN get out of the US if you really want to. If you dislike living here so much, you can figure out a way to make money to leave, etc. etc. (Not saying that you should!)


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## xbeatofangelx (Mar 1, 2007)

Ok obviously I didn't read the rest of the posts to see that we suddenly switched to talking about candy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..

My parents own some vending machines, which means we keep hundreds of candy bars in the house =[

Luckily I don't have a sweet tooth so I never eat them!


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## Trunkmonkey (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:

   Originally Posted by *Hawkeye* 

 
_Are you crazy? Nobody on this thread will agree to disagree because we all have a few who could argue with a fence post. 

GRRRR

BTW I do like that pic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's my own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I offically do this simply because I wish to put it here.
So there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

here's a pair of my favorites


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## MxAxC-_ATTACK (Mar 1, 2007)

i enjoyed your gift of cheese more, I cracked up for like 5 minutes! .. it wasnt for me . but i ate it anyways.


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## xmrsvindieselx (Mar 2, 2007)

what has ricky done to ussss?? haha i feel so bad I posted this nowww.. 

damn ricky! I'm going to have to punish him..with a good spanking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




haha sorry i cant help myself.. too much tension = anjie being dumb


----------

